IRC Conference on the C= bankruptcy
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This is a log of the Conference on effnet on 4/21/95 starting at 8:00pm
PST. All editing done by Roy Milican(AK) Technical Editor of Amiga Link.
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jcompton> Welcome to the First and (I hope) Last Commodore Auction
Conference, sponsored by Amiga Report and Amiga Link
Magazines-"It's news, and it's cheap. What more do you want?"
jcompton> The ground rules:
jcompton> We'll be explaining, in as much detail as is possible, what
happened over the past two days of the Commodore auction
proceedings.
jcompton> Then our esteemed op-panel of developers will be free to offer
any questions or comments they see fit (careful, boys).
jcompton> After that, we'll go to the floor for questions. This is a
very complicated affair...if you weren't aware Commodore was in
liquidation, you'll probably not catch up tonight.
jcompton> The Auction issue of Amiga Report Magazine should be making
its rounds now.../msg your neighbor for a DCC if you don't have
it yet. (note-don't /msg me...)
jcompton> With that said...if there are no objections from the ops, I'll
delve into a mini-summary of what's happened...
jcompton> No? Ok, here goes.
jcompton> The Short Version: Escom AG, the #2 German PC clone
manufacturer, has successfully entered a bid for Commodore's
assets, including (but certainly not limited to) the Amiga
technology.
jcompton> The slightly more explained version: Yesterday (Thursday) was
the auction for Commodore. What we had been lead to expect was
a heated bidding battle between CEI's Alex Amor and C= UK's
David Pleasance...after all, they'd been the most vocal in
their
jcompton> pursuit for the Amiga.
jcompton> As it turns out, neither of them bid. Instead, the only three
bids came from Escom, Dell (a large US PC clone maker) and a
California dealer.
jcompton> The Dell and dealer bids were thrown out. Escom's $5 million
contract, signed in March, was accepted by the liquidator.
jcompton> Almost immediately after the auction, the C= UK heads issued a
press release withdrawing from the running.
jcompton> The next day (Friday), at the court hearing, the objections to
the process were heard.
jcompton> From what I've gathered from the attendees (Josh Galun and
Giorgio Gomelsky), the three pre-filed objections from C= US'
creditors, IBM, and the C= Netherlands/Philippines/UK trustees
were done with without a ton of effort.
jcompton> However, it seems that the C= Netherlands people were
temporarily successful in removing the Philippines inventory of
parts and Commodore UK from the buyout package.
jcompton> The other objection came from Dell, who, in conjunction with
Alex Amor, entered a new $15 million bid.
jcompton> This did not please Escom. A recess was called. At the end
of the recess, Escom had doubled their bid, that bid was
accepted, and so ends the process.
jcompton> The Bahamas Supreme Court still has to approve the deal next
week, but by their own agreement, it should be nothing more
than a rubber-stamp process.
jcompton> In addition, Escom could always fail to close the deal, in
which case the second-highest bidder, Dell, would be offered
the package. Dell has asked for a 30 day "trial" period on the
Amiga, which was part of the unacceptable (to the liquidators)
condition of their bid.
jcompton> However, as of now, Escom is the heir to the Commodore suite.
What they choose to do with this is at present unclear.
jcompton> They have promised everything from more Amigas to Commodore
64s for China and "Commodore" Macintosh clones.
jcompton> That about covers what I've got on my mind now. Josh?
Anything to add?
Zool> Yes, I do Jason. Thanks a lot for a nice summary
Zool> OK. Just to expand on what Jason said about the bidding...
Zool> Yesterday, Dell/CEI entered a bid, however it was rejected in
favor of Escom's bid. After this, Dell kept working with on
their deal
Zool> Dell submitted the bid, which was higher, but also required a
30 day waiting period. Anyway, as you now know, Escom raised
their bid by 6.5 million dollars, and that cleared up all the
obhections
Zool> Anyway, I did an interview with the man who will be heading
the Amiga devision at Escom, and this is what he had to say
Zool> (I can't remember his name) He said that Escom wants to
improve on the Amiga technology. Tight now, they are
interested in making a Power PC Amiga, although that is not a
decision written in stone
Zool> He said that they have an agreement with a Chinese
manufacturer, who will be shipping new Amigas in 2 months
Zool> They said that they also want to use the Amiga technology for
other products, such as set top boxes for TV
Zool> When I asked them about liscencing Amiga clones, they said
that anything was a possibility at this point, and that we may
see Amiga clones
Zool> Escom sounded very open on their policy on the Amiga, as much
of what I questioned them on was replied to with "yes, that may
be possible. We'll look into it"
Zool> Later in the day I talked to Colin Proudfoot of C= UK.
Zool> Colin Proudfoot said that in Escom is meeting with C= UK in
two weeks, and that Escom will most likely buy C= UK at that
point
Zool> Colin said that Escom may have wanted the Amiga to use it to
go into the US Computer market
Zool> He said that Escom doesn't want to start up an American
operation with only PCs, since you can already get PCs very
cheaply in the US. On the other hand, if they came into the
computer market with new technoilogy, that would seperate them
from the crowd
Zool> Escom, by the way, said that they would try to hire as many
ex-C= techs as possible, and that they already have some on
their staff. They did say, however, that some ex-C= techs
already had new jobs that they were haooy with
Zool> Anyway, in the end, my interview with Escom left me pretty
satisfied with their plans.
Zool> Although I think that CEI/DELL would have been better for the
Amiga, Escom could still be very good, especially with the
business savvy and 2 billion dollars in sales they had last
year
Zool> Alex Amor, when he lost the bid, sat stoically, and left soon
after the announcement. He made no comment on what had
happened
Zool> Jason, I give the floor back to you.
Devophile> Zool: I am sure I speak for everyone when I thank you for this
information.
Zool> Devophile: it was my pleasure.
jcompton> For those of you who worry about transcripts, a raw version
will be available soon after the conference. After that, if
you want an edited version, wait for the appearance on Aminet
or for AR 3.09 or Amiga Link #3.
Zool> I would also like to say that the text version of my
interviews with Escom and C= UK should be on Aminet soon.
jcompton> I've had time to read over Josh and Giorgio's interview with
Escom. Obviously, he was with the guy, so I'm one level
removed.
jcompton> Still, I am not exactly convinced that Escom's interests lie
with the Amiga. From a strictly financial point of view, Escom
is poised to launch their PCs in the UK (now that they have
obtained the Commodore name AND the large chain of Rumbelowes
stores)
Zool> About the Phillipine plant, although Escom does not have it
yet, apparently they should have it very soon.
jcompton> ...they have spoken of Mac clones, and of course C-64s in
China. With markets like that, it seems that the Amiga could
easily fall by the wayside...thinking that the Amiga is an
inroad to the US is ludicrous-Escom hasn't checked the Amiga's
public image in the US lately.
KermitW> I don't think that's the point.
Devophile> jcompton: The plans for the US market seem to be right on the
nose, as far as the US is concerned. New technology can be
welcomed or outcast, depending on how it is brought forward.
Zool> Escom believes that the Amiga can make money, which is why
they're in this, and not because they have any fondness for the
amiga. However, they will pour money into Amiga R&D, and they
think that the Amiga can make money for them
Devophile> jcompton: Let us hope Escom knows what they are doing.
AK> Does Escom have the capital and willing to use it to launch a
marketing plan in the US.
Zool> AK: they have the capital
jcompton> So, of course, the logical course of action is to make sure
they DON'T forget. They have repeatedly avoided contact with
the Amiga community and lied to journalists. I'm not accusing
them of doing it in this case, but my point is that there are
no assurances. I currently have no contact information for
Escom...Josh?
Fastlane> jcompton: what ever happened to the 'rumor' that Escom had a
side-deal with CEI with regards to the technology and the
trademarks?
Zool> AK: I believe that they will market it in the US, because
according to C= UK, they want to make inroads into the US
market
jcompton> Fastlane: Considering that Escom told Alex that their
relationship depended on his performance at the auction, and
that he tossed in his hat with Dell...well, CEI isn't ruling
anything out, but I'm not holding my breath.
Devophile> Fastlane: The smart thing for Escom to do would be a joint
deal with CEI, as CEI knows the US market and has the
distribution channels. Plus, a strong goal to get the Amiga
back on top.
Zool> Fastlane: It is conceivable that Escom might liscence Amiga
clones to CEI
jcompton> Kermit: You were going to say something?
Fastlane> Devophile: agreed. Escom only seems to want it all for the
name anyway.
fallous> Why don't we hear from the developers before we turn this
loose to the rest of us?
Devophile> fallous: Agreed.
jcompton> fallous: That was what I was trying to get to. :)
AK> When will Escom make a official press release?
Zool> Fastlane: As I said, Escom seems excited about the Amiga. The
man from Escom said "We wouldn't have spent all this time and
12 million dollars if we didn't want the Amiga"
KermitW> Only that the Amiga lends a uniqueness to a company looking to
startup in the
Zool> AK: Probably tommorow, to AP
KermitW> US market that they would lack with yet-another-pc-clone. It
might not be the
jcompton> AK: "When they're damn good and ready", I would expect.
KermitW> top of their market or even a large part of it, but it could
be the thing that
KermitW> could keep them in the press and, face it, the Amiga's still
pretty good at
Zool> And Escom wouldn't pour money into R&D for the Amiga if they
didn't want to continute with the Amiga brand
KermitW> getting used in TV and film venues for publicity. CBM never
truly made use of this, but a smart company could.
jcompton> Zool: Until we see some serious commitment from Escom, and
some serious former employees-not C= Germany exec and sales
staff, Commodore engineering.
jcompton> Zool: Until then, there's no guarantee of anything.
Zool> KermitW: Escom has business smarts.
PillBottl> Zool: But they need engineering smarts too.
Devophile> All: Escom needs to face the reality that the Amiga is still a
viable platform. And with proper R&D, marketting, and
distribution - the Amiga can make Escom a lot of money. But
they need to support the users, the developers, and listen to
comments
Devophile> and suggestions.
Zool> jcompton: True, but Escom did sound excited about the Amiga.
I genuinely think that Escom wants to market and sell Amigas.
fallous> Kevin, do you have a view from SoftLogik?
AK> Will Escom pursue 3rd party support that has sence left the
Amiga?
KermitW> Until I see otherwise, I would assume Escom is business smart.
Zool> PillBottl: that's why they are hiring ex-C= techs.
jcompton> Zool: Then why avoid contact with the Amiga market since
August of 1994?
Beowulf_> I assume it's also not out of the question for Escom to
license the Amiga technology to third parties...
Zool> jcompton: I don't know. Perhaps because C= was a hideous
company, and they didn't want to deal with them? Also, they
said that they had sold Amigas at Escom stores before
KermitW> Remember that some of that third party support that left the
Amiga, left
softlogik> Soft-Logik is comitted to the Amiga as long as long as the
market can support them. No special info on Escom yet.
KermitW> because they WEREN'T successful on the Amiga, and many still
weren't
KermitW> relatively successful after leaving anyway.
Zool> KermitW: Yes, but Escom is going to buy C= UK, and C= UK had
GREAT developer relationship. They put on a World of Amiga
show after C= died.
PillBottl> A big pat on the back to Softlogik and the other "important"
developers who kept the faith!
bytey> The real question is will a real effort be made to get a new
Amiga model out (new chipset) and that would require a _lot_ of
work software wise. Do they have previous software staff ?
(Chris Hames PC-Task/DirWork etc)
Devophile> A comment I just received was in regards to why developers are
"tripping over each other to leave this platform", simply
because C= did not support developers, nor users as well as
should have, and have been basically gone for a year. :)
Zool> bytey: They did say that they had and were hiring ex-C=
people.
Zool> bytey: Some C= techs don't want to come back, though.
KermitW> As a developer (of ImageFX) I can say that it wasn't like
anyone is forcing
Devophile> Softlogik: Thank you for not betraying us, we are all
appreciative.
bytey> Zool: But ex CBM does not mean ex US software developers. The
ones with the knowledge that would take months to learn.
KermitW> developers to leave the Amiga. The market, your sales, are
what push you into
Zool> SoftLogik: I'm with Devophile. Nice job, you guys!
Nyx> Well, forget my log guys. :P
KermitW> new platforms. A lot of companies who visibly and audibly
left the Amiga to
AK> Devophile: Be tray is alittle strong, they just have to think
of the business aspect.
Cappy> As the president of one of the most successful C= user groups
in the country, I hope that a US branch gets implimented soon
and get user groups involved as much as possible.
Devophile> Cappy: Yes.
KermitW> go to Macs, SGIs and PCs weren't run well or making the money
they needed. In
softlogik> The boss thanks you.
lemming> There is a log being kept by t00 still
KermitW> many cases it's because their Amiga products weren't "up to
snuff" anymore.
Zool> bytey: Well, I assume the reason they are hiring ex-C= people
is to get people with smarts on the Amiga OS. Also, many ex-C=
people don't want to come back because they have already found
nice jobs.
Devophile> AK: Yes. It was a poor choice of words. :) "abandon" would
have been better.
fallous> Such as GVP
Zool> Cappy: Escom said that they would be starting a US operation
pretty soon. I'll have the info on that within 2 weeks.
bytey> have they said anything about _real_ developer support ?
Light2> All: Bernard van Tienen ESCOM was vice-president of Commodore
International. Does he have a track record we can follow?
Zool> bytey: Nothing other than: "Yes, we'll work with developers"
Zool> Light2: BTW, that was who I spoke with at Escom
jcompton> bytey: Again, there have been no solid commitments, just a lot
of broad based indications of what CAN happen.
Fastlane> Zool: that has been said by many before... but did it ever
REALLY eventuate?
Devophile> I just received an amusing comment.. "Did Sony buy Amiga or
what?"
Cappy> Zool: Does Escom have an email address that they can be
reached? I'd like to press the issue of the importance of user
groups.
Zool> FastLane: Who has said that before? Other than C=?
Zool> Cappy: I don't believe so.
Zool> Devophile: :)
Fastlane> Zool: my point exactly.
Light2> Zool: Yes, I read the transcripts. I would really like to
know what to expect. Previous track records in mind.
jcompton> Cappy: E-mail? Not to our knowledge. That would make too
much sense. They're not even sure if they want to use the net
to help promote their product.
KermitW> We're quite willing to give Escom the time they need to do
this. It can't
Idcmp> Many ex-C='s like Dave Haynie and Dale Larson have already
said that they don't like the direction that Escom is planning
for the Amiga and
Zool> Fastlane: Yes, that is a problem. But since we have no real
choice in this, we have to jhope for the best.
KermitW> possibly happen overnight or even over just two months.
Developer support,
Idcmp> it would take more $$ rather than less or equal $$ to get them
to go back to R&D rather than if CEI or alike had got it.
KermitW> user group programs, new machines, all this will take time for
anyone.
Zool> You know, if Amiga users had banded together, we could have
had a legal right to send a representative to the court hearing
to plead for who we wanted?
Zool> Idcmp: Yes, but Escom has a lot of money.
Cappy> jcompton or Zool: How about a snail mail address?
jcompton> Um, guys, I hate to interject, but we're losing the flow
here...
Devophile> Another comment, Dell has a better "image" in the US than
Escom. People might be more apt to but Amigas with the Dell
name versus Amigas with the Escom name.
Beowulf_> jcompton: Is there a snail mail address?
Idcmp> Zool: And in that sense Escom is alot like Commodore. (was)
Zool> Devophile: I dobut that will make much a difference once
Escom has an operation here.
fallous> OK, jcompton wants to gain some control, so I'm deopping a few
of us
jcompton> Beo: None that I have access to. Zool may have one, if not,
I'll try to get it from Dan Stets.
Devophile> Let us all give Jason control again.
jcompton> Everyone, please calm down. I'd like to actually let the
general public be heard, so...
fallous> Sorry, der Fuhr made me do it. ;)
Zool> fallous: For the good of the whole, write? :)
Bandini> Is NewTek still supporting the Amiga or are they concentrating
their efforts on IBM Toasters?
jcompton> Ok, am I back in charge?
jcompton> Bandini: SHHHHHHHHH.
fallous> OK, let's have jcompton run this show.
jcompton> Ok. I guess I do. I'm going to start taking requests for
comments/questions. /msg me with a ?. You have to be on
#auction for this to work...
jcompton> You'll be voiced. Make your question/comment and then hit GA
for "Go Ahead."
jcompton> Um, ok, that's enough, thanks. :) Hold off.
jcompton> Um anybody else messaging me with a ? will be ignored, I have
a very long list...
jcompton> Stop, for now, thanks/.
jcompton> Queue: Mitchman harv pieman beowulf jjohnson irc
shadowhwk niteflite byter chamer...
jcompton> mitchman: Go.
Mitchman> Did they mention any plans for a US-based R&D department? This
is obviously needed if any of the old engineers is to return.
Mitchman> ga
jcompton> Mitchman: No specific locales were given, although some
engineers have indicated their willingness to relocate in the
pass (Chris Ludwig, for example.)
jcompton> (past, that is.)
jcompton> Harv's up.
Harv> So what's up with Alex/CEI?......
Harv> I can't believe he's just gonig to fade away.....
Harv> is an Escom/CEI deal possible? or even desireable? GA
Zool> Harv: He could possibly get a liscence to clone Amigas.
jcompton> Harv: Well, Giorgio told me Alex said "I'm going to grow
flowers." I haven't talked to him today. He didn't give up
over a year's time, so...
jcompton> Harv: At the same time, throwing in with Dell certainly didn't
help him in Escom's eyes. On the other hand, money's still
money.
PieMan> Thankyou. Does escom have any plans to continue to manifacture
amiga cd32 console type machines? ga
jcompton> Fallous is handling voice, he's a bit behind, so just hold
on...
Zool> Pieman: I think so
jcompton> Pieman: I haven't heard anything that specific discussed. I
don't see why not, I know of at least two companies who would
love new units for their own products...
Zool> Pieman: It makes sense. Escom wants to get Amiga tech in
other things than the Amiga computers, so the CD32 would be
step towards a set top box
jcompton> Pieman: But again, this is one of those things Escom needs to
be made aware of.
Zool> Pieman: Also, if the Phillipine plant does have 130,000 akiko
chips in stock, and they buy it, I'm sure Escom will want to
make CD32s.
Zool> Pieman: there is still good profit to be had in CD32s and
royalties off it.
Zool> Pieman: It fits with Escom's strategy.
Zool> GA
jcompton> Beowulf_'s up.
Beowulf_> Mention was made of Escom producing the 64 for sale in some
parts of the world. Do you know of any plans for 64's to be
sold in the US (specifically the SX 64)?
Beowulf_> GA
jcompton> Beowulf: Again, that's gotta be up to them. The Chinese
market seems to be where they want to put the 64-it's cheap to
make and cheap to buy. There's always the CMD market in the
US, but again, Escom may not be aware of that.
Zool> GA...I have nothing to say.
jcompton> Beowulf: I, personally, would be surprised.
jcompton> GA.
jcompton> So, that brings up jjohnson.
jjohnson> If C= Uk is a subsidiary (sp?) of C= Intl who was just bought
by Escom (and the Phillipines plant also), how can those two
entities not be included with the deal? Thanks. GA
Zool> jjohnson: no, C= UK is not part of Escom, but Escom plans to
buy it in 2 weeks time.
Zool> Escom also will probably buy the Phillipines plant.
jcompton> Good question. C= UK is DIRECTLY owned by Commodore BV, which
is in liquidation. Its trustees objected to the sale of its
assets through C= International (the Philippines assets and C=
UK).
jcompton> C= BV SHOULD have to report to C= International, but because
of Commodore's convoluted structure...
jcompton> Zool: The inventory, not the plant. They don't own the plant.
Zool> jcompton: It may be illegal to sell the plant to anyone other
than Escom, because there may be Amiga tech still in there that
Escom owns. That is what the court said.
oleg> stoopid question, is the court-approved contract available
electronically? it is a public document, so it can be
requested. has anyone done that?
jcompton> Queue: irc shadowhawk bytey chamer bandini frotz reti032
golum number1 wt kthulu ...
jcompton> oleg: It's a very LONG public document. I, for one, don't
want to type it in. I'll ask the lawyers on Monday, though.
Zool> jcompton: Ofcourse, there are such things as scanners... :)
jcompton> oleg: You might be able to get it sent to you from the office.
jcompton> Zool: Which any member of the audience can feel free to buy
for me.
oleg> jcompton actually it *should* be available for the cost of
copying/mailing from the bankruptcy court if it is not
available from the attorneys
Zool> jcompton: :)
Zool> jcompton: Maybe a company that makes scanners will be good
enough to take an ad out in AR, right?
jcompton> irc's not here, so shadowhwk's up.
Shadowhwk> Has any evidence as to whether or not ESCOM has talked to, met
with or is planning to meet with NewTek? GA
jcompton> Zool: I can always hope.
HammerD> Any mention of C= Canada or other operating subsidaries? Was
Douglas MacGregor there? (head of C= Canada)
jcompton> Ok, then, how about bytey?
bytey> What is Escom's reputation in Germany ? GA
jcompton> HD: Not clear.
AK> A Amiga Deal friend of mine has said that NewTek has
officially stated that the future Amiga is of no concern of
theirs.
Zool> Are there any Germans here who have dealt with Escom? If so,
/msg Zool so that I can answer bytey
jcompton> bytey: Like any large company, Escom has its supporters and
detractors. On .misc, there's a thread, one person lauds Escom
for great potential, the other says their service sucks.
fallous> People are waiting in line for their questions, let's stay
with the queue
jcompton> bytey: But they've demonstrated tremendous growth lately, so
they've got attention on them, and this can't hurt. So I guess
the quick answer is: you'll know soon.
jcompton> Ok, Shadowhwk was lagged, let's try again...
Zool> bytey: Willow says that Escom is very big, but doesn't have
good service.
Shadowhwk> Has any evidence as to whether or not ESCOM has talked to, met
with or is planning to meet with NewTek? GA
Cryo> there's more to life than NewTek
jcompton> Shadow: Too specific. If they have, they haven't made it
public.
jcompton> Everyone has to understand...Escom has been incredibly
secretive over the past months. We found out more about their
plans and thought processes today than we did since the rumors
started spreading in September.
jcompton> So, any secret deals, meetings, or promises they may have made
are still total unknowns.
jcompton> GA
Nyx> I'd like to mention along with Cryo that NewTek, while being a
very "public" company in the eyes of the public, never sold
enough Amigas to keep C= alive. Commodore survived on the
low-end machines, and always did.
jcompton> That'll bring up CHamer.
oleg> There is a thread on c.g.lightwave (initiated by lee stranahan
an ex-NewTek employee) that NEwTek is in deep financial
trouble... Thus they may at least be interested in selling
Amiga Toasters for a while, if only to liquidate their
inventory.
Nyx> The only reason C= had high-end machines at all was for a
technology proving ground.
Zool> By the way, people, Willow has told me that service is on of
Escom's selling points, but that in practice, like Radio Shack,
it's not very good, because the people don't have the
expertise.
CHamer> Thanks. Are there any 'surprise' legal actions on the part of
the 'un-successful' bidders set to slow this down again? GA
Zool> CHamer: No, it seems as if all is smooth saling from here on
in.
fallous> Would another op please take over the voicing? I seem to be
getting lagged.
jcompton> CH: Good question. The only chance would be at the Bahamas
court, but the court has all but signed in blood that they'll
say what the US judge said, and he said "yes", so...
jcompton> Volunteers?
fallous> Cryo has been nominated Chief Voicer
jcompton> Ok. Queue: bandini frotz reti032 golum number1 wt
kthulu fotograf cyclone2 derjag t_c_c piranha mage optic
Bandini> somebody stole my Question :-) GA
Zool> Bandini: That's probably Escom's fault! :)
jcompton> Bandini: In that case, the answer is ".325, 38 home runs."
jcompton> Next@!
Cryo> frotz, wake up
jcompton> Cryo: Voice him first.
fallous> frotz is lagged, give him a sec
Frotz> Does anybody know how to contact Escom in ANY country, like
with phone or fax or email? GA
jcompton> Frotz: I don't. One of my Dutch sysops has Escom's number,
I'll try to get it in the next issue. Josh might have
something...GA
Zool> Frotz: I have one number, but I'd rather not give it out,
because it is not a general number that is given out. Sorry.
However, when I talk to someone at Escom, I will try to get a
phone number you can fax requests for the Amiga to. GA
jcompton> Hold on...number is coming...
Number1> Have any comments been made by either CEI (answered earlier)
or Micro-PACE, my two main distributors as an Amiga dealer? If
so, what? GA
Zool> jcompton: any day now... :)
jcompton> Ok, I'll print it when I have it. In the meantime, reti032 is
on #mirror, so I'll forward his question:
jcompton> reti032-"what about jcompton future plans, i mean ar issues
and possible conference qith escom boss ?"
Zool> +49 241 27734 is one of Escom's phone numbers. Thanks to
ChrisDi for this.
jcompton> Answer: I don't see any big changes for AR. As for conference
with Escom...that's up to them, but it won't be for lack of
trying on my part.
jcompton> (Start /msging me with more questions...)
Kthulu> Does this mean that the next Amiga will have plug in graphics
and soundboards like the ibm? Also I would like to add that
the Amiga Computer Users of RIT hope that ESCOM will be open to
suggestions from those of us who use the computer. I beilieve
that we need to stay on top of
Zool> OK, we have more phone #s. Fax: +31-2526-72216
jcompton> Escom is also +31-2526-87971, +31-2526-72216 fax, but those
are customer service.
Zool> Thanks Willow for that one.
Kthulu> of ESCOM so they know what we want and what can be done with
the AMIGA
Kthulu> ga
Zool> Kthulu: I suppose just call those numbers, at this point.
jcompton> Kthulu: Another question I'd love to answer, but Escom just
hasn't given us specific enough information.
Zool> Kthulu: However, as I have said, when I talk to Escom again
in 2 weeks, I will ask about where concerned Amiga users can
call to voice suggestions.
jcompton> GA
Zool> GA
Cyclone2> How much is Escom planning to put into Amiga R&D? This is a
legitimate concern, since C= invested about $30 million a year
in Amiga R&D, and it wasn't enough.
Cryo> hey bunghole.. you're up
Cyclone2> GA
jcompton> queue: fotograf cyclone2 derjag t_c_c piranha mage
optic mr_t drizzit chamer pala droids corinna baconrunr
hidog tritn sudog oggy
Zool> Cyclone2: It sounds like they are willing to spend a lot.
They know that the Amiga need new technology upgrades, and that
it will take a lot of work to incorporate the Power PC into the
Amiga.
Cryo> dejag
jcompton> "As much as they say they will." As of now, Escom is a >$1
billion company. Their clones require far less R+D than the
Amiga would, and the 64 certainly won't be an engineering
challenge.
jcompton> GA.
Zool> jcompton: Yes, but if they believe that the Amiga can be a
viable computer, they will spend on R&D.
jcompton> Zool: Of course.
Zool> jcompton: And Escom did say that they bought it to make
Amigas, and that they wouldn't have put the time into it
otherwise, nor the money.
Zool> Another Escom phone number, this one Germany: +49 6252 71313
Thank ChrisDi for that one!
jcompton> Zool: I think they could turn a handy profit without the
Amiga. In fact, I'll submit that the Amiga is the riskiest
part of a balanced diet of PC and Mac clones, the 64, and the
Amiga.
Zool> jcompton: They could make a profit without the Amiga, but
they could make a bigger profit WITh the Amiga.
Cryo> if you aren't paying attention, you will lose your slot
Zool> jcompton: I believe that they want to revamp the Amiga. I
could be very wrong, but that is what they conveued to me. And
a revitalized Amiga sold in big computer chains could make
money.
jcompton> Cryo: Some people are lagged, though...we ARE putting a lot of
load on...
Nyx> Not unless you can attract big name software vendors as well.
Zool> Nyx: Those will come if Escom sells Amigas again, especially
if they put them in all Escom stores and other big computer
chains.
jcompton> Nyx: But, Ken, with you at EA, that shouldn't a problem. :)
Nyx> Zool: Perhaps in Europe.
Cryo> chamer: speak or die
CHamer> When are we going to see some machines appear?
Zool> I think that Escom should sell cheap A1200s to China, because
that would really boost the Amiga user market.
Zool> CHamer: In 2 months, according to Escom.
Zool> CHamer: They already had a deal set up with a Chinese firm to
make Amigas in their plants.
CHamer> Is that real, or just 'smoke'?
mr_t> Have Escom talket with the AmigaOS replacement group? and what
are their plans for distribution to others than their own
stores?
jcompton> Zool: Um, your interview says 3 months.
Zool> Chamer: Well, the Chinese were at the hearing, so i assume
so.
Zool> jcompton: [sigh] That must have been a typo...
mr_t> How are they going to promote the Amiga vs PC?
jcompton> mr_t: Another question locked in the brains of many German and
Dutch execs. We just don't know yet.
Zool> mr_t: Willow informs me that Escom hasn't contacted the Amiga
OS project. However, C= Uk did contact the Amiga OS project,
and Escom will be buying C= UK, so they may contact them
through C= UK. GA
Optic> Will American/Canadian stores be able to sell Amigas, or do
Escom only sell their products through Escom retail outlets?
jcompton> GA
Zool> Optic: I assume that Escom will sell Amigas everywhere. It
makes business sense to sell them in stores other than their
own, because they can make more profit off the Amiga that way.
Pala> what did do the amiga director of escom when he was at C=, how
good how bad ? GA
jcompton> Zool: That's a pretty simplified view. Pleasance sent the OS
people a letter saying "Good work, carry on, we think it's
neat", but there was no commitment made...
Zool> Optic: Ofcourse, that will be a measure of how much they want
the Amiga to survive. If they don't allow other stores to have
it, that's a bad sign.
Zool> jcompton: Actually, he said that they were interested in
talking to them, and that was before they got the Amiga, and
just that he acknowledges them is a good sign.
jcompton> Pala: Good question. I'd never heard of the guy.
Zool> jcompton: I though you knew everything about C=...my
idolization of you is shattered... :)
jcompton> Zool: Sorry, CIL management wasn't one of my fortes.
jcompton> I'd just like to interject that I DO strongly feel that
Escom's purchase of Commodore's assets seriously imperils the
future of floor scrubber development.
mage> From which point would it be realistic to think Escom would
continue R&D? Will they start over from scratch, or will they
keep any of the "old stuff" ?
jcompton> (It's been asked that I point out that CIL had a good dozen or
two vice presidents at any given time, so this one was probably
nothing to wrry about.)
Zool> I just want to say that although I agree that Escom could turn
out to be VERY bad, they could also turn out to be VERY good
for the Amiga.
jcompton> mage: Well, Amor toyed with the idea of scrapping AAA and
3DRISC, because the benefit-to-time ratio may not have added
up. But it's going to be up to Escom's evaluation.
Zool> mage: I don't think we really know. They could go Power PC
and, make old software compatible, or they might feel that it
is easier to start from scratch with the Power PC.
Cryo> those who aren't getting voice propagated on their turn, send
me a msg and I'll add you back in the list
Cryo> the network is obviously fucked as usual.
jcompton> mage: As it stands, AAA and 3DRISC (separately) are each a
good 18+ months from saleable completion.
jcompton> msg rlsayer Reminded me, that is.
Zool> jcompton: "saleable"? :)
Nyx> Zool: 18+ months before you could have them in a sellable
product.
Cryo> droids: you're on
droids> Does Escom have a floor scrubber, and do they know how to use
it? GA
jcompton> I like "saleable".
jcompton> droids: Probably, but unfortuately they haven't admitted it.
Zool> Also, I think that with Escom, we pretty much have an all or
nothing venture. They either are going to kill the Amiga, or
do great things with it and push it like crazy.
WilloW> Zool: That's correct. Is a totaly unknown thing. Maybe they
are worse then C= or ten times better.
Cryo> technical difficulties
Cryo> please sit by
HiDog> Did Escom mention their intended market? High/low end,
desktop/console etc.? I still have a feeling they might just
milk the Amiga technology as is and eventually kill it i.e.
cheap settop box... GA
jcompton> Any more questions? We're going to close the queue soon...
jcompton> Hidog: They mentioned all markets, like the good salesmen they
had on hand.
Cryo> tritn, you're on
Zool> HiDog: I believe that they want to do low end for new
markets, like China, but on the other hand, I think they wanted
to make Amiga business machines for the European market, which
is very business oriented
Sudog> How long can we expect to wait (perhaps an estimate?) before
we see some sort of action in North America? I'm looking for
general ballpark, not exact figures. So far from what I've
heard, it doesn't look good for us. Please, your impressions
would be wlcm.
Sudog> GA
Sudog> Wait!
Sudog> I ask this for the users out ther who have broken Amigas! Like
broken a4000s.
Sudog> NOW GA.
jcompton> sudog: Well, what Giorgio told me about their answer to the US
distribution question was NOT encouraging. Their answer was
"Well, we'll look for the best people", which means "We haven't
thought about it."
Zool> Sudog: Escom said that they want to set up American offices
soon, and Colin Proudfoot says that Escom wants to use this to
get into the US market, so I think it looks pretty good.
Zool> jcompton: Hmmm...conflicting answers...
oggy> Escom are breaking into the UK PC market theyve bought up all
the rumberlow(formaly owned by Thorn Emi) and are opening
superstores on top of these in the UK, now theyve bought C= and
say they plan to break into the US market as well, although
they have..
jcompton> Zool: Yes, and you were both talking to the same guy...
Cryo> transcripts will be available on www.warped.com
oggy> large captial, will it be enough or have they bitten off more
than they can chew?
Cryo> uh oh.. guard your sheep.. joec is up
Zool> jcompton: perhaps I misunderstood his statement. However, he
did say that they were going to be setting up some kind of US
contact, somehow, and Colin Proudfoot did say that Escom wanted
to get into the US market.
jcompton> oggy: Rhetorical question. :)
Zool> oggy: Escom definitely has the capital to the do whatever they
want with teh Amiga...
JoeC> What was Microsoft's objection at the hearing, and who gets to
pay that old cursor patent fee now from that other company?
jcompton> Zool: Because as salesmen, they would be committing suicide to
rule anything out. That's their job.
jcompton> JoeC: Microsoft didn't object, they were at the auction as a
creditor.
Zool> oggy: The computer market is growing in Europe, and they are
positioned to make a nice sum off it.
jcompton> JoeC: And it will fall on Escom to re-license the CadTrack
patent, and pay up all of the MANY MANY patents that are "not
in good standing".
jcompton> For instance, the CrossDOS license is not in good standing,
along with hundreds of others.
Cryo> corinna.. speak
Corinna> Comment: We need to be positive about the future with Escom,
being negative will not help anyone, us or them. This could be
a whole new era for the Amiga. KEEP THE FAITH! :)
jcompton> Interestingly enough, not even Consultron knew it was not in
good standing...
Corinna> Thanks to Zool and Jason and all other folks for the info! GA!
Zool> Corinna: Thank you! I think that since we are stuck with
Escom, we should hope for the best, and wait to see what
happens.
jcompton> (The queue is closed)...
Optic> jc: What about the Amiga speech synth?
jcompton> I'll agree...but this is also not the time to be complacent.
We've been screwed around before, and this last year hasn't
exactly been fun, so it's worth our while to make DAMN sure
Escom knows what they have to do.
Piranha> Since IBM still has patents pending on some of the
architecture on the Amiga platform, is it *secure* that Escom
has the technology, or will they end up going to court again?
This will put our Amiga's out of commission 'again'. Is this
something we have to worry about? Go Ahead-GA
jcompton> Optic: I didn't see it in there, I thought that was a dead
issue.
Zool> Piranha: It is secure.
Zool> Pirahna: IBM dropped their objection, as far as I understand.
Drizzit> Will Escom allow ship Amigas with better CPUs with stock
machines (ie 25,33,&40MHz models) instead of just one (25MHz
right now)? And will they move on to the PowerPC, the 060, or
some other RISC based chip?
jcompton> Piranha: Unfortunately, the result of IBM's claim was unclear.
The main problem seems to be that they weren't LISTED as
holders, making them wonder what the liquidator was trying to
pull.
jcompton> Drizzit: We don't know the answer yet.
jcompton> Piranha: They held a license, not the patents themselves.
Zool> Drizzit: The have said that they like the Power PC chip, but
that no decision has been made yet.
Cryo> super samarai cybers up
Cryo> go lighty
Lighty> The following question is for Zool to include in his next
interview with Escom:
Lighty> I realize that the matter has probably not been discussed
internally yet, but in a future version of the Amiga's OS, do
they plan to include plan to include internet capabilities?
Lighty> GE
Lighty> err...GA
Zool> Lighty: OK, I'll ask them that when I next speak to them.
Thanks for the suggestion.
Cryo> tritn: you're on
Cryo> anyone I miss?
Cryo> tritn, you type "Hello, I have a question"
jcompton> If you were missed, let us know now...
Cryo> no bunghole.. type
Cryo> type type type type type
TritN> Hello I have a Question
TritN> I'm sure I speak on Behalf of many ppl within the large Amiga
community of Montreal, Quebec. I Must ask, Is there any news
about distribution in other countries like Canada? (Also please
comment of fate of C= Canada) GA
Cryo> there is no hope for some people
mr_t> Has Escom said anything about what direction the are planning
on developing hardware and OS (besides setop and PPC)? GA
jcompton> Tritn: C= Canada was a direct subsidiary of C= International,
so will be part of Escom.
jcompton> Tritn: No news about Canada otherwise, though.
Fastlane> let me add also with Australia (C=Australia was never any
good)
Zool> mr_t: No.
jcompton> Ok, it's really closed for real now, no more etc.
jcompton> mr_t: No, but I'm sure they haven't ruled anything out.
Cryo> dra: you're up
Draegon> What kind of support can we posibly expect for older amigas?
GA...
jcompton> Draegon: I'd say you should stop hot-swapping joysticks now,
just in case.
Cryo> cybers: online
cybers> can we send a copy of this to Escom?
Cryo> cybers: yes, with a xerox of my butt
jcompton> cybers: Yeah, but make it one of the edited ones.
Cryo> chamer: you're 15 seconds starts now ;-)
CHamer> Thanks, Are there going to be assurance that while machine
production ramps up, that parts will become available as well?
GA
jcompton> CH: No, there's no assurance of that at all. This is another
one of those things Escom won't think of unless they hear
enough complaints and prodding.
Cryo> spinner marks the end of the queue
oleg> zool, who exactly are you, and what relationship, if any do
you have with ESCOM?
Spinner> Will the Chinese manufacturer mean cheaper (cost and/or
quality), more expensive, or similar to current AMigas?
Spinner> Will we see an A4000 cost competitive to a 486 syustem? GA.
Zool> oleg: I am the Editor-in-Chief of Amiga Link Online Magazine.
I have no relationship with Escom, except that I talked to them
today at the hearing.
jcompton> Spinner: I'm not sure what the relation of
Chinese-to-Philippines labor costs are, but I'd imagine Chinese
labor is a few degrees cheaper, at least.
Cryo> unedited transcripts will be available from www.warped.com..
edited ones will be elsewhere
Zool> Spinner: It will probably mean Slave labor, sadly.
oleg> zool so why aren't we getting at least some "I don't know
answers from you"? you CANNOT conceivably have covered every
question asked here in your talk with ESCOM, soo how much is
speculation on your part, and how much is ESCOM answers?
Cryo> thank you all for attending.. we have some entertainment for
you coming up
Cryo> We are going to tie jason down and let you all come with your
cow prods and have at him
jcompton> Yeah, that about does it for the formal part, everyone. Thank
you very much for coming, the official edited transcripts will
be appearing in the online magazine of your choice...
Zool> oleg: I haven't said that because I don't answer what I can't
answer. And yes, there is a matter of speculation inveolved,
but it's the best that I can do with a 3 minute conversation.
caldi> Cryo: Your butt would be better entertainment, put it in the
fax machine.
jcompton> All I have left to say is that I'm not about to watch Escom
screw this up, so I'd appreciate all the help I can get making
sure they don't.
jcompton> Open up the floodgates...
Cryo> *ding* *ding* *ding* this conference is officially over.
Zool> oleg: The best thing Escom said was "We wouldn't have spent
million and the time to buy the Amiga unless we wanted to make
Amigas"
Cryo> thanks for attending..
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