Interviews with Bernard van Tienen of Escom and Colin Proudfoot of C= UK

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    INTERVIEWS: Bernard van Tienen of Escom, Colin Proudfoot of C= UK
               Conducted by Josh Galun and Giorgio Gomelsky
    jgalun@maple.mis.net                              gio@phantom.com
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Interview with Bernard van Tienen ESCOM.  Friday April 21, 1995 [van Tienen is a
former vice-president of Commodore International.]

by Josh Galun (JG) assisted by Giorgio Gomelsky (GG)

JG: How much can you say about your plans for the Amiga?

BvT: We are setting up a group of advisors to advice us which products we should
produce and we are digging into every product solutions not only Amigas but
other products like Commodore products, TV set-top boxes, we are considering
PowerPCs with Amiga, we are considering everything at the moment.

JG: How soon do you think you'll be able to have Amigas in production?

BvT: We haven't decided yet, but we have all the links with the factories. Escom
is a big European group at the moment, we assemble our own machines, we have all
the contacts with the manufacturers, we spoke already with them, the only thing
is which product should we produce, which quality an then we get started.  We
presume we'll have the first products, the first Amiga products on the market
within 3 months...

JG: As I understand it, ESCOM is one of the biggest computer-sellers in Europe,
I assume AMIGAS will be in all their stores, is that true?

BvT: Not only Amigas but we will also produce Commodore PCs, ja, and of course
we will use our own stores in Europe but besides that we will distribute
products into other countries and also to other dealers in Europe...

JG: The Amiga has a very vibrant community as well as many public domain
programmers, do you plan to use them in any way or contact them and ask them
what they think...

BvT: Of course, of course, ja...

JG: With the developers as well?

BvT: Ja, ja, everybody will be involved...as many as possible to advice us on
the Commodore and Amiga products...

JG: Do you plan to attempt to hire any of the technicians who used to be with
Commodore?

BvT: Of course, we are already busy with it and already have some contracts. But
a lot of Commodoore people are already working for ESCOM, for instance I was
vice-president of Commodore International, Peter Tachenko...  I think there are
already roughly 100 ex-Commodore people working for ESCOM at the moment.

JG: Do you have a position on whether you would license the Amiga technology and
software to clone-makers?

BvT: Not only to clone makers but also to people who want to produce products
and need some of our licences.  We are already busy with that, we've made some
principal contacts, ja, on that.

JG: How long have you been working to try and buy what was left of Commodore?

BvT: We started with it, let's see, eh, last year in August 1994.

JG: Had ESCOM been interested in the Amiga before the buy-out, in having Amigas
in their stores?

BvT: The point is that ESCOM.  ...must have lasted 3/4 years.  We sold Amigas in
the past in our stores...

JOSH TAKES A BREAK

GG: You are aware that the Amiga has a tremendously loyal following?

BvT: We know Commodore very well because I was vice-president of Commodore
International and I know everybody and everything about C= of course...

GG: Do you intend to use this energy that comes from the passion of the Amiga
users?

BvT: Of course, of course, the biggest asset is not only the name and the
products but also the user-groups.  There are millions of Amiga users and even
more 64 users still, ja.  We are also planning to roll out products in China and
other countries...

GG: How would you achieve this contact with the users?  Would you put up a site
on the Internet?

BvT: We haven't decided yet but everything is possible.  Also we would use the
magazines of course, there are hundreds of magazines, so ok, we haven't got the
deal yet, but as you heard in the court now it looks like we'll get the deal in
a couple of weeks, we have planned a lot but now we'll be able to roll it out,
ja?  So give us some time, ja, we'll consider everything...

GG: Could the users be in touch with you, say over the next month or so and
communicate their concern?

BvT: Ja, we will install people everywhere, in Europe, in the States. Call me
and I will tell you who and where they are.  We are aware of the frustrations
users had under the old management...

JOSH GETS BACK

JG: Do you have any plans already in place or being discussed with CEI about
working with them on the Amiga?

BvT:  We can't disclose that at the moment.

JG: Was C= UK part of the buy-out?

BvT (pointing at Colin Proudfoot passing by): That's C= UK...  "Ok, Colin, see
you next week, ok?" It's not part of the deal at the moment, but next week we
have an apoointment with C= to see what we can do with them.  We are talking
with them...

JG: Do you have plans to work with them or to possibly buy them out?

BvT: Both are possible...

GG: My main concern is for the users, this has been a long slog...

BvT: Yes, I think it is a good thing that finally there is this sale.  We
already wanted to buy last year, but we couldn't proceed, we couldn't hurry it
up, ja, it took so long...

JG: Can I ask you a bit of a personal question?  Do you own an Amiga yourself?
Which one"

BvT: I don't own an Amiga at the moment...

JG (smiling): But you're planning on getting one, yeah?

BvT: I,I,I..I've used Amiga in the past, ja, in my office.  I'll get a new one
that's coming out, we don't know what spec it will be, we are working on it hard
at the moment...

JG: Do you have any plans to have some online chats on the Internet?  Do make
more use of the Internet?

BvT: Of course the Internet is going around right now, it's very popular in the
States, also booming right now in Europe, so ja, something will happen...  We
will set up support groups to get to know what is going on all over the
place...

JG: Do you plan to make separate Amiga packages with software bundles, let's say
a Modem Package, a Game Package, as C= UK has done in the past?

BvT: It worked very well out in the UK, I know the figures because I was
involved and everything is possible...but we can also bring out other products
under the Amiga name, ja, we can also bring other technology into the Amiga, if
you want, ja, we haven't defined it yet but we are considering everything and we
expect a lot from Commodore and Amiga, otherwise we wouldn't have bought it,
ja?

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Friday April 21, 1995, outside US Bankruptcy Court building 4:15pm

Interview with Colin Proudfoot of C= UK

by Josh Galun

Missed first question

CP: C= UK is waiting for this thing to be over.  We then look forward to working
with ESCOM and reviewing their plans for the future of Commodore cause they're
gonna drive the technology and in effect they are quit likely to end up the
owners of the C= UK business.

JG: Do you believe ESCOM will buy C=UK as they exist right now or do you believe
they will license you as clone-makers?

CP: I don't think ESCOM will leave C=UK outside its organization, so it's a
technical question in acoounting terms whether it's expedient for them to keep
the corporate identity as it is today or create a new corporate identity or use
their existing structure and merge the C=UK within that. I think that was is key
is that they will retain a lot of the staff from the UK organization because we
have the expertise on the market place.

JG: If you were allowed to make your own plans for the UK market of the Amiga,
what would they be?  If ESCOM gave you that, how would market the Amiga and make
it viable again?

CP: I don't think that is a realistic question because if you look at the market
place as a whole you can't exclude the UK from the rest of Europe or the rest of
the world.  Computing nowadays is very much a global market and we would have to
fall in line with ESCOM.  A regards to what marketing plans we would see, David
Pleasance has outlined the plans he would have for the market place and the
products and how it would develop.  In fact he will be talking to ESCOM about
these things next week and we will see how many of those ideas they will wish to
adopt.

JG: So you're saying that there is nothing that separates the UK market from the
rest of the European market or the global market?

CP: Europe is now a common market and there are no technical bounderies for free
movement of goods and services so a product that's launched in the UK one day
we'll find in Germany the next day, or in Holland or in Danmark.

JG: I heard that C=UK has good developers' relationships.  Have you been talking
to them about the buyout and what information have you gotten from them that
might be helpful to ESCOM?

CP: Well the UK has a very strong software community and a lot of developers are
based in there and we've been talking to them throughout the buyout, we've been
discussing ideas for eventual new products and I think ESCOM will be very
interested in the discussion that we had and the results of those discussions.

JG: Is there any technology that C=UK has that has not been released or that it
still owns the rights to?

CP: C=UK has never owned any of the rights to the technology, it's merely been a
licensee.  All rights have always been held by CEL in the Bahamas or
Commodore-Amiga in California.  To come back to the developers, we recognise and
I think the ESCOM people recognise how important the relationships with the
development community are and on behalf of David and myself I wish to thank the
development community for their support over the last 12 months. It' been
absolutely tremendous, we couldn't have asked for any more support or any better
encouragement from the guys all around the world.  Hopefully we're looking
forward to working with ESCOM working with the developers' community and putting
the Amiga back on top of the market place, which is what we wanted all along.

JG: The US is a very competitive, intense and big market.  Do you think ESCOM
will want tto and are able to attack it properly?

CP: You should ask them.  I can only speculate and have a personal opinion and I
would say the following: ESCOM have been phenomenally successful as a PC vendor
in Europe and they have grown the business tremendously. Where do they go from
there?  They look to North America.  How they penetrate the American market?
Can they do it with a "me-too" computer? No they can't! So therefore they need a
product to differentiate themselves from the rest of the competition and just
maybe, just maybe, the Amiga is that product.

JG: What are your personal feelings about the end of the buyout?

CP: I'm very glad it's over!

JG: Are you an Amiga user yourself?

CP: I have a CD32 at home and in the office a Commodore 486 PC.

JG: Do you have any plans of switching to the Amiga?

CP: I am not a technologist I am a businessman.  What I do is I talk to David
Pleasance and the rest of the guys in the UK to get an understanding from them
about the technology and its applications.  My job is business.