The Avalyn Digest

There are 36 messages totalling 1037 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Rachel's rxn to piracy (2)
  2. Rachel's rxn to piracy (NO REISSUES THANKYOU!) & where to find singles (4)
  3. rubbish! (9)
  4. for butterfly mcqueen
  5. Wow!  Slowdive fans! (2)
  6. Nico? Creation Dumped you so why are you bothering? (2)
  7. Returned mail: User unknown
  8. just because i'm so nice (2)
  9. one more thing...
 10. word to your mother
 11. slowdive b-sides
 12. let's try this again
 13. Slowdive as Investment
 14. Wow!  Slowdive fans!---sarah (2)
 15. Rachel's rxn to piracy-  I'm selfish (2)
 16. Rachel's rxn to piracy-  You are selfish.
 17. live in Oslo
 18. Shameless Plug for my band. TONIGHT!
 19. mbv-l-digest - #356

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 00:31:15 -0500 (CDT)
From: Cory Collins <1cc5776@unixstew.tstc.edu>
Subject: Re: Rachel's rxn to piracy

all I'm saying is who's really gonna come around after we're all dead and 
be excited about a slowdive CD that "back in 1991 was a limited edition 
printing..."  Face it the whole reason we're into this thing is because 
it's great music, and we really love it that it's a little esoteric.  
Some of the joy of listening to these bands is going, hey, here's 
something that's different and very good, let the rest of the world go 
buy their little mass produced Aerosmith albums... Unfortunately, that's 
what people will be wanting to find in our estate sales after we die.  
	My point:  re-release some of this stuff.  Nobody else in the 
world is gonna care.  In the bigger picture, I just want some more of 
that good music, and if people are going to be selfish about their stuff, 
then I'll just find it elsewhere thanks.  If Slowdive is concerned that 
people are making money off of their stuff, then why don't they offer it 
to the public so they can make money off of it.  Otherwise, demand for it 
will be met otherwise.  Like prohibition, outlaw it, some people want 
beer bad enough...
	It would be easier than having to hunt these CDs down and pay my 
left butt cheek for them...
	Slowdive should be complimented that people like their music 
enough to go to extra lengths to obtain it all.....   they rock!
	
	hope i didn't offend anyone  (:
cory

----------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 11:39:00 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Gregory KURZ A208 P5655 STERIA 
Subject: Re: Rachel's rxn to piracy (NO REISSUES THANKYOU!) & where to find singles

avalyn@chesco.com writes:
> I have to agree with you on this issue Jan.  If something is released as
> limited, then it should never be released again.  I hate when things are
> reissued even if they weren't supposed to be limited.

Why ?!? Listen man, we're talking about Music. Music is Art and Art is
forever. Making business or collecting art privatly is IMHO a crime to
Art. Issuing limited stuff is one of the many ways the 20th century almighty
music industry found to make money. I'm sorry to see so many people playing
that game.

> It's rude to the bands (and obviously some agree).  Somewhere along the
> line they made money off that $40 used blueday, but they make nothing off
> of some pirated cd.  I know my opinion is swayed because I'm not just into
> the music, but i'm into collecting it.  A thrill for me is coming across
> that special 7" i need.  I don't mind paying $25 for it cause if it was
> only $3 I'm sure it wouldn't be there for me to buy.  

What you're talking about ? Do you really think the band makes money out of $40
used album ? The band earned $1 or $2 when the stuff was sold the first time
and then it's over. That's the rude thing ! I'd be ready to pay much more if I
gave the money directly to the band. And, anyway it's stupid to give a price
to something as unvaluable as music... If you really love it, you shouldn't
keep the music for your own self but allow more people to listen to it!
Music, like all other arts, isn't the property of a few individuals, it's the
legacy of mankind. Musicians are the chosen ones who can discover it and
spread it around the world: they should be considered as saviors! Collecting
music stuff is selfish and vulgar. Try Magic the Gathering instead (more
things to collect, more money), you'll like it!

-=GrEg=-

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 16:59:51 +0100
From: Nico Vandenabeele 
Subject: Re: Rachel's rxn to piracy (NO REISSUES THANKYOU!) & where to find singles

>Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 16:24:32 +0100

>>avalyn@chesco.com writes:
>>> I have to agree with you on this issue Jan.  If something is released as
>>> limited, then it should never be released again.  I hate when things are
>>> reissued even if they weren't supposed to be limited.
>>
>> Why ?!? Listen man, we're talking about Music. Music is Art and Art is
>> forever. Making business or collecting art privatly is IMHO a crime to
>> Art. Issuing limited stuff is one of the many ways the 20th century almighty
>> music industry found to make money. I'm sorry to see so many people playing
>> that game.

"I hate when things are reissued even if they weren't supposed to be
limited", this makes me sick. "Oh yeah, I've got a limited edition, and the
others can fuck off", what a nice attitude. You must be verry proud with
it, but if other people wants it too, they have the right to get it. For
the music, not for the stupid demand-supply thing or because it's rare.

>> It's rude to the bands (and obviously some agree).  Somewhere along the
>> line they made money off that $40 used blueday, but they make nothing off
>> of some pirated cd.  I know my opinion is swayed because I'm not just into
>> the music, but i'm into collecting it.  A thrill for me is coming across
>> that special 7" i need.  I don't mind paying $25 for it cause if it was
>> only $3 I'm sure it wouldn't be there for me to buy.
>
> What you're talking about ? Do you really think the band makes money out
> of $40
> used album ? The band earned $1 or $2 when the stuff was sold the first time
> and then it's over. That's the rude thing ! I'd be ready to pay much more if I
> gave the money directly to the band. And, anyway it's stupid to give a price
> to something as unvaluable as music..

Haha, we are all victims of the music industry, they aren't in it for the
music, it's only for the money. And it also seems for some people on this
list, even Rachel. Sorry Rachel, but your reaction proves you're playing
the business-game too. What happened with the main thing: making music, so
people can enjoy it? If you don't like that people copy your work - in this
case even not for their own profit, just to have the opportunity to listen
to your work (I'm not talking about the piratescums, but the fans) - well,
don't bring out new work and just keep it for yourself. Creation dumped
you, so why bothering?

Nico

---------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 12:50:54 -0500
From: mps2@cec.wustl.edu (Michael Peter Stein)
Subject: rubbish!

> Issuing limited stuff is one of the many ways the 20th century almighty
> music industry found to make money.

BULLSHIT!!  Do you really think that labels like Duophonic, Kranky, Warp or
Rephlex make alot of money when they issue something in editions of 500, 1000,
or 2000 can make a profit.  NO WAY these companies barely break even on ltd.
issues because so few are pressed.  They only do this for the fans.

> I'm sorry to see so many people playing that game.

Sorry, but no-one's fucking forcing you to buy anything.  There's nobody
with a gun at the store telling you to buy Blue Day or whatever.  It's your
choice.  If you choose to pay the price and buy the music...COOL.  If not,
then don't buy it.  THAT'S COOL TOO.  Just tape it from someone else and
quit your bitchin'.  

I also think alot of you just don't know how to find records...I've seen 
Blue Day and all of EPs numerous times on the Net and in shops for REASONABLE
prices.  Before you start whining about not having it and ask for bootlegs
to be pressed LOOK AROUND first!!!

Just MHO...

-Mike

--------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 11:51:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Milan D. Brych" 
Subject: Re: rubbish!

> Sorry, but no-one's fucking forcing you to buy anything.  There's nobody
> with a gun at the store telling you to buy Blue Day or whatever.  It's your
> choice.  If you choose to pay the price and buy the music...COOL.  If not,
> then don't buy it.  THAT'S COOL TOO.  Just tape it from someone else and
> quit your bitchin'.  
> 
> I also think alot of you just don't know how to find records...I've seen 
> Blue Day and all of EPs numerous times on the Net and in shops for REASONABLE
> prices.  Before you start whining about not having it and ask for bootlegs
> to be pressed LOOK AROUND first!!!

Please tone down the cursing at each other.  This is a productive debate
without the foulness.  Also, if Slowdive musique makes you tranquil, 
listen to it before flaming anyone.

Now to business.  If your as addicted to wonderful releases as I am, buying 
something like Blue Day despite its price is hard not to do.  I've seen 
many good things on the web and in stores, but I too am frustrated by 
their inflated prices.  Sure, I've learnt that not matter how little you 
have in your bank account, it's imperitive to buy a release immediately, 
but that also is not fair.  Again, invest in Beatles LP's and 
enjoy Slowdive for the musique, not how limited the release is.

Milan

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 14:22:37 -0500 (CDT)
From: Cory Collins <1cc5776@unixstew.tstc.edu>
Subject: Re: rubbish!

Ok, I'm starting to get tired of all of this piracy, bootleg shit...
Keep your damn opinions to yourself and let this list talk about 
something nice...

-------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 15:20:31 -0400 (EDT)
From: Claire De Leon! 
Subject: Re: rubbish!

>> Issuing limited stuff is one of the many ways the 20th century almighty
>> music industry found to make money.
> 
> BULLSHIT!!  Do you really think that labels like Duophonic, Kranky, Warp or
> Rephlex make alot of money when they issue something in editions of 500, 1000,
> or 2000 can make a profit.  NO WAY these companies barely break even on ltd.
> issues because so few are pressed.  They only do this for the fans.

I'll agree with you here that they aren't making jack shit by pressing
that little, but to say they only do it for the fans, well, they only do
what they do for the fans, but FUCK, EVERYONE knows there are more than
1000 Stereolab fans in this world! Why do they find it necessary to do
such limited pressings?! I think they just get a big charge out of seeing
how much their product can go up to - a certain sense of pride by saying -
"Look at that, I released a record that goes for $100 now - wow!" My
opinion anyhow...

Daniel

-----------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 14:32:02 -0500 (CDT)
From: "B.Taylor" 
Subject: Re: rubbish!

On Thu, 15 May 1997, Milan D. Brych wrote:

> Please tone down the cursing at each other.  This is a productive debate 
> without the foulness.  Also, if Slowdive musique makes you tranquil, 
> listen to it before flaming anyone.

awe come on. the use of profanity is a closely guarded right on the
internet.  quit the whining.   

 brian

--------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 20:30:52 -0500
From: "Gregorio Samsa" 
Subject: RE: Rachel's rxn to piracy (NO REISSUES THANKYOU!) & where to find singles

Hey there !!...come on !..all us are from any way palying with 
"bussiness game" ..Alll us have something from *selfish* inside,
it's part from us, cos we are humans !..
 
Perhaps would you like people earn money from a work that YOU
did and you don't get nothing from this work ?...sometimes say 
"what a nice work" is not enough, you know ..

I am agree with you for another side, the main thing is make music
and let listen it to the people....but be honest !.. all we have
something from this "selfish" ? inside ...

GS.

------------------------------
  
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 15:46:14 +0600
From: susan marie mcgowan 
Subject: for butterfly mcqueen

i'm reallyreallyreally sorry to post this to the whole list...but
hey ed...i can't seem to be able to send anything to your 'cybercomm'
address; i keep getting error messages!
what to do?

sorry again,
susan.

-----------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 14:54:07 -0400
From: rboge@ix.netcom.com
Subject: Re: rubbish!

At 12:50 PM 5/15/97 
>
>> Issuing limited stuff is one of the many ways the 20th century almighty
>> music industry found to make money.
>
> BULLSHIT!!  Do you really think that labels like Duophonic, Kranky, Warp or
> Rephlex make alot of money when they issue something in editions of 500,
> 1000, or 2000 can make a profit.  NO WAY these companies barely break even
> on ltd. issues because so few are pressed.  They only do this for the fans.

Yes, limited editions are for the fans....ok, fans at that particular
date of sale, who sell them for more to new fans somewere down the road
who think it's oh so special to be among the few people who now have said
item.

So essentially it's a money play, where the record company/artists never
share in the wealth. 

Someone mentioned Stereolab singles that are sold for $40-50 within weeks
because so few are printed. You can bet there are a lot of record "dealers"
who could care less about Stereolab buying those only to sell them to "the
fans" since they know they're going to make money.

I don't understand all the griping about "BLUE DAY is limited, thus it should
never be re-isuued".  It was already re-issued once, as a bonus with initial
copies of Souvlaki. I think the issue here is to have the MUSIC reissued NOT
the packaging that it came in.

So the problem I have is, "Why is a BLUE DAY re-issue so important". 
You should be wanting re-issues of SLOWDIVE & HOLDING OUR BREATH.
Since BLUE DAY leaves out tracks from those 2 EPs.

I had to pay an arm & a leg to get my Slowdive EPs but having 
SLOWDIVE,MORNINGRISE & HOLING OUR BREATH  is better imho than having
BLUE DAY.(although I would buy a re-issue)

which leaves 2 questions:

1) why was MORNINGRISE re-issued and not the other two?

2)Why wouldn't the band be able to put together an 'early slowdive'
  compilation cd since there is a great demand for these singles.

I could see why 'not on Creation'. A.McG. is too busy counting his
money from Oasis to care about slowdive.

It could be worked out, through alternative means, but perhaps 
reissuing slowdive material is the furthest thing from the minds
of ex-slowdive band members.

-------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 14:08:18 -0700
From: Mitch Bacigalupi 
Subject: RE: Rachel's rxn to piracy (NO REISSUES THANKYOU!) & where to find singles

> Hey there !!...come on !..all us are from any way palying with
> "bussiness game" ..Alll us have something from *selfish* inside,
> it's part from us, cos we are humans !..
>
> Perhaps would you like people earn money from a work that YOU
> did and you don't get nothing from this work ?...sometimes say
> "what a nice work" is not enough, you know ..
>
> I am agree with you for another side, the main thing is make music
> and let listen it to the people....but be honest !.. all we have
> something from this "selfish" ? inside ...
>
> GS.

Thank you Master Yoda!  Sorry...I just *couldn't* resist!

Cheers,
-Mitch

----------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 17:13:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Milan D. Brych" 
Subject: Re: rubbish!

>> Please tone down the cursing at each other.  This is a productive debate 
>> without the foulness.  Also, if Slowdive musique makes you tranquil, 
>> listen to it before flaming anyone.
>>
>
> awe come on. the use of profanity is a closely guarded right on the
> internet.  quit the whining.   

Oh Brian.  You must've misunderstood me.  I louve cussing (on the web, at 
my dog, at drivers who cut me off).  But if all Slowdive fans unite (and 
stop cursing at each other), we can forcefully takeover Creation 
long enough for them to sign over the rights to Slowdive material 
to this list and tell them how fuckin' stupid they were for dumping/not 
supporting Slowdive.

Milan

--------------------------------

Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 20:43:07 GMT
From: butterfly mcqueen 
Subject: Re: rubbish!

> I'll agree with you here that they aren't making jack shit by pressing
> that little, but to say they only do it for the fans, well, they only do
> what they do for the fans, but FUCK, EVERYONE knows there are more than
> 1000 Stereolab fans in this world! Why do they find it necessary to do
> such limited pressings?! I think they just get a big charge out of seeing
> how much their product can go up to - a certain sense of pride by saying -
> "Look at that, I released a record that goes for $100 now - wow!" My
> opinion anyhow...

I think when they issue limited stuff, the decision really is derived from
their estimates on how many will sell.  How many Stereolab fans actually go
out and buy the singles?  I know a lot do, but not me.  Many others are
probably the same way.  They're content with full-lengths, it seems.

Besides, like someone said before, kollectorskum prices for these things
don't bring them any more benefit -- because it's the dealers and
second-hand sellers who are winning big on such sales.  If they really
thought they would sell a lot more, I'm sure they would press more
accordingly.  More revenue.  Unless the release in question is for
promotional intent only (i.e., the hype resulting from it being limited
leads people to buy other Stereolab shit).  But that in itself is kind of
dubious....

; ed

-----------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 01:38:09 GMT
From: Wintermute225@neuromancer.com (Wintermute225)
Subject: Wow!  Slowdive fans!

I've been a silent Slowdive fan for years...silent because I live in a
the culturarly blighted area of Jacksonville, Florida for most of my
life and am quite elated to see there are fans besides me of this
wonderful band of late.

The holy grail for me is the "To Be or Not To Be bootlegged" Blue Day.

Alan McGee needs to quit giving Oasis head.

I miss Adorable, "Pre-Going Blank Again" Ride, and  my bloody
Valentine. 

I pray to hear more from Curve and The Jesus & Mary Chain. 

....and I wish that Sarah Records come back from the dead and
re-relase some stuff from The Sugargliders, The Orchids, and Even As
We Speak......

...last time some arrogant NIN/Stone-Temple-Pearl-Garden-In-Chains
Fanatic/PunqueRawker called me a "shoegazer", 
I kicked their teeth in..... the benefits of growing up in a
hick-centric area.... ^_^

Speaking of Sarah Records....has anyone ever heard of a band Called
SECRET SHINE?  They were compared to MBV and Slowdive.  Certainly not
either but I think they sounded very good nonetheless......

Any replies?  insults?  instults to my mother?  insults to my dog?
hehehhe.....

----------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 03:18:36 GMT
From: Wintermute225@neuromancer.com (Wintermute225)
Subject: Nico? Creation Dumped you so why are you bothering?

IMHO, Your bombast against the music industry was justified and you
left none standing......not even the people on your side.....

It's obvious Rachel is frustrated with the music industry.  What big
(and small) bands are not?  This is what alarms me though......

> Sorry Rachel, but your reaction proves you're playing
> the business-game too. What happened with the main thing: making
> music, so people can enjoy it? 

Yes, Rachel & the band are in the "buisness-game" too, *duh* but 
they are artists as well.  The band are trying to make a living and
they make excellent music.  That is obvious but It is quite apparent
you are not familiar with the pitfalls of capitialism.  There are just
some things that just don't work correctly.  When anything
institutionlized (music industry) tries to convey an *individual's*
idea, it dilutes and even grossly distorts the orginal motives and
values.  Any money driven collective agenda will destroy the original
message because people just don't have the capability to understand
the difference between the messanger and the peddler.
Jesus Christ for example....he'd shit himself If he saw how many
people murder in the name of the so called Chruch he established.  So
would you feel more justified to tell Jesus to "Fuck off" for rape
crimes in Bosnia or would you like to give a battery acid enema to the
sick sick man who ordered it in the name of god?

Your post was on the cusp of intelligence by blasting the industry and
elitist music collectors (and how I hate those elitist music nazis)
but it seemed to end with a *pfffft* with your closing remark:

> Creation Dumped you so why are you bothering?

As if Creation was the last word in producing good music that are true
to the art of music.....I do recall that Mr. McGee is making a mint
from Oasis.   And the last I heard that Oasis were pillars of the "I
won't write anything that anyone get's credit for besides me" virtue.
Ask Evan Dando and The Chemical Brothers.....I didn't hear Mr. McGee
slap them on the hand and saying "What happened with the main thing:
making music, so people can enjoy it?".

If you want to shoot at band that are in the business-game, your shots
are best served at Oasis and Creation....leave Slowdive/Mojave 3 and
Rachel out of it.

w225

---------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 13:44:02 +0300 (EET DST)
From: Peter Peltonen 
Subject: Re: rubbish!

> then don't buy it.  THAT'S COOL TOO.  Just tape it from someone else and
> quit your bitchin'.  

I think the point here was that the person wanted to give the money to 
the artist / band and not for the blood sucking music industry. 

> I also think alot of you just don't know how to find records...I've seen 
> Blue Day and all of EPs numerous times on the Net and in shops for REASONABLE
> prices.  Before you start whining about not having it and ask for bootlegs
> to be pressed LOOK AROUND first!!!

If one does not have a record card and does not live in a big city in USA 
or Great Britain that is not possible. The only real Slowdive album I've
ever seen in shops here (Finland) is Pygmalion. I had to order all other
albums from Germany through my local music store. EP's of course were not
available. 

Peter
pisara@dystopia.fi

----------------------------------

Date: Fri, 16 May 1997 12:18:41 +0100 (BST)
From: "Matt.xxxx" 
Subject: Re: Wow! Slowdive fans!

> ...last time some arrogant NIN/Stone-Temple-Pearl-Garden-In-Chains
> Fanatic/PunqueRawker called me a "shoegazer", 
> I kicked their teeth in..... the benefits of growing up in a
> hick-centric area.... ^_^

WHY ?! There ain't nothin' wrong with being a shoegazer. I'd take it 
as a compliment and buy the kid a drink. Heh-heh.

-----------------------------------

Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 16:31:21 +0100
From: Nico Vandenabeele 
Subject: Re: Nico? Creation Dumped you so why are you bothering?

> IMHO, Your bombast against the music industry was justified and you
> left none standing......not even the people on your side.....
>
> It's obvious Rachel is frustrated with the music industry.  What big
> (and small) bands are not?  This is what alarms me though......
>
>> Sorry Rachel, but your reaction proves you're playing
>> the business-game too. What happened with the main thing: making
>> music, so people can enjoy it?
>
> Yes, Rachel & the band are in the "buisness-game" too, *duh* but
> they are artists as well.  The band are trying to make a living and
> they make excellent music.  That is obvious but It is quite apparent
> you are not familiar with the pitfalls of capitialism.  There are just
> some things that just don't work correctly.  When anything
> institutionlized (music industry) tries to convey an *individual's*
> idea, it dilutes and even grossly distorts the orginal motives and
> values.  Any money driven collective agenda will destroy the original
> message because people just don't have the capability to understand
> the difference between the messanger and the peddler.

I know the pitfals of capitalism, but i still don't understand why people
take this for granted.

> Your post was on the cusp of intelligence by blasting the industry and
> elitist music collectors (and how I hate those elitist music nazis)
> but it seemed to end with a *pfffft* with your closing remark:
>
>> Creation Dumped you so why are you bothering?
>
> If you want to shoot at band that are in the business-game, your shots
> are best served at Oasis and Creation....leave Slowdive/Mojave 3 and
> Rachel out of it.

Hey, nothing against Rachel, but here mail irritated me a bit. I can
understand that she's not that in Slowdive anymore, but some of us still
are or just started to discover the band and their music. And I think the
"new ones" have also the right to listen to Blue Day, Morningrise, etc. I
can only hope she understands this and why some people are looking for Blue
Day (I've got it, but for me,  it's not a reason to say to the others: fuck
off or pay.).

Nico

----------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 13:27:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Milan D. Brych" 
Subject: Re: Returned mail: User unknown

> Well, I bought mine just as it was released, and still had to pay $20
> or so. Blue Day is not a  normal album, since it was marketed as being
> ltd, and those buying it "invested in it" on that condition. The ads in
> the magazines promised this was a one off, and wouldn't be released
> anywhere else at a later date. Slowdive would let the original buyers
> down if they broke this promise.
 
With investments, there are good and bad 
ones.  I hope for the sake of all those that don't have the Slowdive 
"rare" gems, Creation re-releases it all.  I'm a collector too, but I 
wouldn't consider Slowdive to be any where near the top of a 
"collectable" bands list.  They are one of my favorites ever, but that 
doesn't make them a good investment.
 
On another subject, I read Rachel's piece in the Big Takeover mag.  Kudos 
to her for really trying to stick it out for her fans.  I think I can 
speak for all Mojave fans in saying that we really really appreciate it.

Milan

--------------------------------

Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 14:21:28 -0700
From: Mitch Bacigalupi 
Subject: Re: Rachel's rxn to piracy

>edhong@cybercomm.net,Internet writes:
>> doesn't the demand for such an item show that some
>> reissues of old material would be justified?  (Not just the Morningrise
>> EP.) I originally bought my copy of Blue Day of $40.
>
> Well, I bought mine just as it was released, and still had to pay $20
> or so. Blue Day is not a  normal album, since it was marketed as being
> ltd, and those buying it "invested in it" on that condition. The ads in
> the magazines promised this was a one off, and wouldn't be released
> anywhere else at a later date. Slowdive would let the original buyers
> down if they broke this promise.

Why would it let you down? Because if it were re-released it wouldn't be
worth as much money?  So what!  If it is one of your favorite albums, it
should not matter how much money it's worth.  If it were only worth a
couple of dollars, would it change your opinion of the album?  I think not.
There is no flame intended, this is just my opinion. I buy records/cds
because of what is recorded on them, not what they're worth, and not so I
can say, "I have this, and you don't, hahaha!"

I don't see why we should be bothering Rachel with our petty requests of
old Slowdive material.  As much as we love Slowdive, as many great memories
they have given to us, and as much incredible music they have given us,
it's all in the past now.  It's time to face it, there *is* no Slowdive
anymore.  We should move on.

On the other hand...

I think it would be a great idea if Rachel and Neil would put together a
record, cd, or even a tape of some rare/hard to find material that would be
available to people on this list.  After all, we *ARE* the "real" or
"hardcore" fans.  I think that we are the closest thing to a "fan club",
aren't we?

Oh well...these are just my opinion/ideas.  I should go now because I think
my soapbox is about to collapse.

Cheers,
-Mitch

----------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 01:50:13 -0500 (CDT)
From: sara 
Subject: just because i'm so nice

i was in minneapolis today and i happened to see another copy of holding
our breath....so i picked it up because i knew that there must be someone
who is still looking for this (very sarcastic)....it's vinyl, still in the
package and everything...so the first person to email me can have it for
$15.

sara

------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 01:52:43 -0500 (CDT)
From: sara 
Subject: one more thing...

that's $15 + whatever shipping costs...

-----------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 10:58:26 -0400 (EDT)
From: Claire De Leon! 
Subject: Re: word to your mother

> By the way, the name of the *ASSHOLE* that's helping to scalp off the 
> "slowdive rarities" bootleg CD is David Stack - he is doubtlessly one of 
> the most heinous people I have ever had the extreme and intense 
> displeasure to speak with. This sac of bile doesn't see any problem with 
> selling the hard work and artistic integrity of the members of slowdive 
> so he can make a dollar. COME ON, DAVE - do you REALLY think that we 

> *snip!*

> Come on, people. This is what the internet is for.

Yeah, you are right. It's not for slagging/flaming, so maybe you should
get off it...

Daniel

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 04:21:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: butterfly mcqueen 
Subject: Re: slowdive b-sides

At 08:04 AM 4/30/97 +0200, you wrote:
>On Sat, 26 Apr 1997, Maston@aol.com wrote about: slowdive b-sides
>
>> There is already a Slowdive CD bootleg that has been marketed lately.  It is
>> basically Blue Day (all the singles tracks) with the missing songs.  However,
>> it does not include the material on the flexi and sells for the low, low
>> price of only $28.00.  Personally, I do not support the piracy of my favorite
>> band, so I won't mention the person who is behind this project.  If you ask
>> nice, and want to buy it, mail me privately and I will point you in the right
>> direction.
>
> If it is the one someone posted about to the 4AD mailing list a while ago:
> With help from Susan on this list (Hi Susan! :-)), I think we have identified
> it as their gig in Toronto, May 20th, 1994 - which is pretty easy to
> obtain on tape.

Nah, it's a comp of eps and bsides direct from cd.  It has:

slowdive       
avalyn I        
morningrise     
she calls       
losing today    
catch the breeze 
golden hair     
shine   
albatross       
in mind 
some velvet morning     
avalyn II       
so tired        
moussaka chaos  
missing you (edit)

; ed

----------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 10:27:18 -0500 (CDT)
From: sara 
Subject: let's try this again

well it looks like my other message never made it to the list..so here i
go again.
i saw holding our breath in minneapolis yesterday so i bought it knowing
that the must be someone who needs it...it's vinyl, and still in the
package and everything.  
$15 takes it.

sara

-----------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 09:44:42 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Milan D. Brych" 
Subject: Slowdive as Investment

>> Well, I bought mine just as it was released, and still had to pay $20
>> or so. Blue Day is not a  normal album, since it was marketed as being
>> ltd, and those buying it "invested in it" on that condition. The ads in
>> the magazines promised this was a one off, and wouldn't be released
>> anywhere else at a later date. Slowdive would let the original buyers
>> down if they broke this promise.

With investments, there are good and bad 
ones.  I hope for the sake of all those that don't have the Slowdive 
"rare" gems, Creation re-releases it all.  I'm a collector too, but I 
wouldn't consider Slowdive to be any where near the top of a 
"collectable" bands list.  They are one of my favorites ever, but that 
doesn't make them a good investment.
  
> On another subject, I read Rachel's piece in the Big Takeover mag.  Kudos 
> to her for really trying to stick it out for her fans.  I think I can 
> speak for all Mojave fans in saying that we really really appreciate it.

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 12:10:13 -0500 (EST)
From: conspiracy? 
Subject: Re: just because i'm so nice

> i was in minneapolis today and i happened to see another copy of holding
> our breath....so i picked it up because i knew that there must be someone
> who is still looking for this (very sarcastic)....it's vinyl, still in the
> package and everything...so the first person to email me can have it for
> $15.

umm, if someone else hasn't swiped it away, I'll take it...

--------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 22:50:39 -0400
From: avalyn@chesco.com
Subject: Re: Wow!  Slowdive fans!---sarah

I don't think Sarah will be back anytime soon.  Especially since it is now
Shinkansen.  Some Sarah stuff is still availble through them, though I
doubt too much.  Secret Shine are ok.  I like the Loveblind ep alot.  

bye  ryan

---------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 23:05:12 -0400
From: avalyn@chesco.com
Subject: Re: Rachel's rxn to piracy-  I'm selfish

>> I have to agree with you on this issue Jan.  If something is released as
>> limited, then it should never be released again.  I hate when things are
>> reissued even if they weren't supposed to be limited.
>
> Why ?!? Listen man, we're talking about Music. Music is Art and Art is
> forever. Making business or collecting art privatly is IMHO a crime to
> Art. Issuing limited stuff is one of the many ways the 20th century almighty
> music industry found to make money. I'm sorry to see so many people playing
> that game.
>
>> It's rude to the bands (and obviously some agree).  Somewhere along the
>> line they made money off that $40 used blueday, but they make nothing off
>> of some pirated cd.  I know my opinion is swayed because I'm not just into
>> the music, but i'm into collecting it.  A thrill for me is coming across
>> that special 7" i need.  I don't mind paying $25 for it cause if it was
>> only $3 I'm sure it wouldn't be there for me to buy.  
>
> What you're talking about ? Do you really think the band makes money out
> of $40 used album ? The band earned $1 or $2 when the stuff was sold the
> first time and then it's over. That's the rude thing ! I'd be ready to
> pay much more if I gave the money directly to the band. And, anyway it's
> stupid to give a price to something as unvaluable as music... If you really
> love it, you shouldn't keep the music for your own self but allow more
> people to listen to it!
>
> Music, like all other arts, isn't the property of a few individuals, it's the
> legacy of mankind. Musicians are the chosen ones who can discover it and
> spread it around the world: they should be considered as saviors! Collecting
> music stuff is selfish and vulgar. Try Magic the Gathering instead (more
> things to collect, more money), you'll like it!

I hear what your saying, but it doesn't change my mind.  I know I'm selfish
about music.  I really hate when bands I like become popular too, that's
pretty selfish i guess.  What I meant when i said that somewhere along the
line slowdive made money of a used copy of blueday was that that cd was
released they made money from the initial purchase, but if someone bootlegs
it they don't make any money at all.  What is so wrong with a band wanting
a song to be special and putting it on a limited record?  If whoever really
wants to hear it they will find it somewhere or I'm sure they can get a
copy somewhere.  I have no problem copying any of my stuff for anybody.
Record collecting isn't just collecting songs, its about collecting the
whole package.  I collect Sarah records.  Sarah released a few bands that I
think are crap, but I still buy their 7"s cause I want every Sarah record.
I'll buy a cd of something, then I'll see it in a really nice gatefold lp
version and i'll buy it just cause i think its cool.  So I'm really not
selfish about the actual music, i'm just selfish about the physical record,
sleeve, and whatnot.      bye  ryan    

-------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 18:24:17 +0300 (EET DST)
From: Peter Peltonen 
Subject: Re: Rachel's rxn to piracy-  You are selfish.

"Should Blue Day be re-released" thread continues. Hit the delete button
if you're not interested.

> about music.  I really hate when bands I like become popular too, that's
> pretty selfish i guess.  What I meant when i said that somewhere along the

Selfishness is no virtue, you know? I think this world would be a lot
better place if people were not so self-centered and always thinking
only about themselves.

> it they don't make any money at all.  What is so wrong with a band wanting
> a song to be special and putting it on a limited record?  If whoever really

Because there are fans that weren't there when the album was available.
I think everyone is titled to hear Slowdive's music. 

> wants to hear it they will find it somewhere or I'm sure they can get a
> copy somewhere.  I have no problem copying any of my stuff for anybody.

I really don't see your logic here:

You have no bad feelings about people hearing the music from a tape. 
But you have bad feelings about people hearing the _same_ music from
a vinyl / CD. Slowdive is about music, isn't it?

> Record collecting isn't just collecting songs, its about collecting the
> whole package.  I collect Sarah records.  Sarah released a few bands that I
> think are crap, but I still buy their 7"s cause I want every Sarah record.

We are not here saying that you shouldn't collect records. Hell, collect
all the records of the world if you want, I do not care. Why can't you
let other people listen to the music? Why does it annoy you that others
have the same item as you? You _have_ the item, isn't that the point in 
collecting? 

Would it make you happier if all the other Blue Day LPs in the world would
crumble to dust and your copy would be the only one left? Would it give you
some extra kicks?

I hope not.

Be happy with your wonderful music. Be happy with all your beautiful covers
and all the stuff you collect. And let others be happy too with the same
things? You know, a shared joy is a doubled joy...
-- 
Peter
pisara@dystopia.fi

-----------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 12:39:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: Claire De Leon! 
Subject: live in Oslo

I just paid some guy $8 for this cassette bootleg, speaking of all this
"piracy", and it doesn't even have a picture sleeve! Anyhow, point is that
the $8 was probably worth it because it sounds so damn good! Really! Plus,
there is one unreleased track (as far as I know!?) called Melon Yellow.
wow! it's about 40-45 minutes long too...

Daniel

-----------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 14:37:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: grilledcheese 
Subject: Re: Rachel's rxn to piracy-  I'm selfish

> line slowdive made money of a used copy of blueday was that that cd was
> released they made money from the initial purchase, but if someone bootlegs
> it they don't make any money at all.  What is so wrong with a band wanting
> a song to be special and putting it on a limited record?  If whoever really

i am on the brink of putting out something, and altho its dangerous, am
seriously considering putting a note inside that says something like: "if
you like this record, tape it and give it to a friend". i mean, i actually
want as many people to hear my stuff as possible... but if some asshole
repressed it and sold 1000 copys without any permission. that would suck.

mike

-----------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 12:25:48 -0700
From: Mitch Bacigalupi 
Subject: Shameless Plug for my band. TONIGHT!

Hi Everyone!
Just a quick reminder:
Andalusia will be plaing TONIGHT at the Cactus Club in San Jose.

If you like early Lush, Slowdive, Verve, Chapterhouse, Ride, The Cranes,
and stuff like that, then you will like us.

We are the third band out of five that are playing.  It's a FREE show, so
come and see us! And all the people that told me they were coming already,
I can't wait to meet all of you!!!!!

The Cactus Club is at 417 S. First Street in downtown San Jose.

Cheers,
-Mitch

------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 14:33:42 -0500
From: WILDER GONZALES AGREDA <932307@aloe.ulima.edu.pe>
Subject: RE: Wow!  Slowdive fans!---sarah

Have you heard lovesliescrushing, alison's halo,
lying saucer attack, bowery electric, shiFt, love spirals
downwards, soul whirling somewhere, silvania, etc..?

Regards.
Wilder.
"Climatic Phase #3" Seefeel

-----------------------------------

Date: Mon, 19 May 1997 15:59:52 -0400 (EDT)
From: grilledcheese 
Subject: Re: mbv-l-digest - #356

sorry about the cross post... but i just realized how great a web site
warp records has. check it out if yr into that kinda thing. seefeel,
autecher ..video clips, pics, etc.

www.warp-net.com

-----------------------------------

End of The Avalyn Digest #2.11
******************************

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This page was last updated May 21, 1997 by Erik Söderström

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