From rec.arts.sf.written Mon Jun 22 15:11:39 1992 Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written Path: herkules.sssab.se!isy!liuida!sunic2!mcsun!uunet!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!decwrl!csus.edu!netcomsv!mork!dani From: dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig) Subject: L.E. Modesitt Jr: Timediver's Dawn Message-ID: Date: Mon, 22 Jun 92 00:42:25 GMT Organization: Netcom - Online Communication Services (408 241-9760 guest) Lines: 28 "Timediver's Dawn" is a book that didn't need to be written. Before L.E. Modesitt Jr wrote such excellent books as the "Forever Hero" trilogy and "Hammer of Darkness" (well, *I* liked it), he wrote "Fires of Paratime" -- a journeyman piece, inspired by Norse mythology, about a society of time travellers. It wasn't a bad book, but it lacked polish. "Timediver's Dawn" is a prequel to "Fires of Paratime," and tells the story of the dawn of organized time travel. Which is to say that it goes on for pages or chapters about things that the original book adequately addressed in a few sentences. The book lacks focus, being partly a source of more information than we need or want about time diving, partly the story of the boy who becomes the first effective timediver (and who plays a secondary role in "Fires of Paratime" many millenia later), and partly the story of a society that comes apart at the seams. I'd give it a miss. (The only cover blurb is "Exceptionally Brilliant" -- A.E. Van Vogt, but it's not clear whether this refers to the book, the author, or a previous book, or is just a quote out of context. The inside cover has more blurbs, but they're for Modesitt's other books.) ----- Dani Zweig dani@netcom.com "The best lack all conviction, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity." -- W.B. Yeats From /tmp/sf.4146 Tue Aug 9 01:50:53 1994 Xref: liuida rec.arts.sf.reviews:517 rec.arts.sf.written:53398 Path: liuida!sunic!pipex!howland.reston.ans.net!news.intercon.com!panix!ddsw1!news.kei.com!hookup!news.sprintlink.net!dg-rtp!sheol!dont-reply-to-paths From: sef@kithrup.com (Sean Eric Fagan) Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.reviews,rec.arts.sf.written Followup-To: rec.arts.sf.written Subject: _The Magic Engineer_, by L.E. Modesitt, Jr. Approved: sfr%sheol@concert.net (rec.arts.sf.reviews moderator) Organization: Kithrup Enterprises, Ltd. Message-ID: Date: 19 Mar 94 20:20:35 GMT Lines: 52 _Engineer_ is the third book by Modesitt about the isle of Recluce, a haven of black (Order) magicians. As with the previous two books (_The Magic of Recluce_ and _The Towers of Sunset_), it is a very enjoyable book -- better in many ways, in fact, because Modesitt is becoming a better writer. _Recluce_ concerned a young Order magician being forced to go out on a dangergeld -- a temporary exile from Recluce while he learned who and what he was. _Towers_ concerned the founding of Recluce. _Engineer_ takes place several centuries (around five, I think) after _Towers_ ends, and concerns a young Order magician (not very strong, in his own opinion) who wants to *build* things. *Machines*, which run on steam, or other forms of power. The problem is that any machine, being complex, invites Chaos, which is exactly what the founders of Recluce didn't want. More, engines, such as steam engines, *must* use Chaos (the burning of wood or coal to heat the steam if a form of Chaos), and, again, the masters of Recluce cannot have that. So our hero, and two companions, are sent off on what is obviously a dangergeld, even if it is not called that (apparantly, that term does not come into play for a couple more centuries), while they discover who and what they are, and whether or not they can fit into Recluce. For a lot of reasons, I kept being reminded of Card's _Prentice Alvin_ while I was reading this -- our hero becomes a smith, and is a magician; those are two obvious examples. But where Card has been taking many books, and telling a religious story, Modesitt is just telling a story, and tells it very well (although, like _Towers_, it is told in the present tense, which takes some getting used to). The book also took me somewhat by surprise, in that it didn't cover something I thought it would. Happilly, this means that Modesitt probably has at least one moe Recluce story to tell, which would be between this one and _Recluce_. I hope so, and I am almost too impatient to wait. I recently read _Five Hundred Years After_, and my comment about it was that, although it was a good story, it was not one I was likely to read agin. _Engineer_ is, however. I enjoyed reading it, and time just flew by (well, it probably helped that I was at home, sick :)). I have absolutely no qualms about having bought it in hardcover, and can easily recommend it. Even if you've never read any of the other Recluce books by Modesitt, it would be a worthwhile read (although I do strongly recommend getting the other two books, as well; _Recluce_ is a "funner" story than _Towers_, but they're both quite good). If I were to rate the book on a -5 to +5 scale, I'd give it a +4. Go get it. %T _The Magic Engineer_ %A L.E. Modesitt, Jr. %G ISBN 0-312-85570-2 %O Hardcover, $23.95 US %P 510 pp From rec.arts.sf.reviews Sun Oct 23 16:04:41 1994 Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.reviews,rec.arts.sf.written Path: news.ifm.liu.se!liuida!sunic!pipex!uunet!gatech!nntp.msstate.edu!olivea!charnel.ecst.csuchico.edu!csusac!csus.edu!netcom.com!postmodern.com!not-for-mail From: schulman+@pitt.edu (Christina Schulman) Subject: _Of Tangible Ghosts_ by L.E. Modesitt, Jr. Message-ID: <37us0q$4km@usenet.srv.cis.pitt.edu> Followup-To: rec.arts.sf.written Sender: mcb@postmodern.com (Michael C. Berch) Organization: St. Dismas Infirmary for the Incurably Informed Date: Sat, 22 Oct 1994 01:06:35 GMT Approved: mcb@postmodern.com (rec.arts.sf.reviews moderator) Lines: 63 Xref: news.ifm.liu.se rec.arts.sf.reviews:642 rec.arts.sf.written:78552 _Of Tangible Ghosts_ by L.E. Modesitt, Jr. _Of Tangible Ghosts_ is a difficult book to pigeonhole. It's a murder mystery and an espionage thriller, set in an alternate history, with environmental overtones. The book doesn't quite succeed on all these counts, but the alternate history is deep and interesting enough to make the book worthwhile. Modesitt posits a world in which ghosts are a real electromagnetic phenomenon, created when humans die in great stress, fading over time. Conquest is a slow process because the ghosts created by war render territory uninhabitable until they fade. This has resulted in a noticeably different balance of power in October 1993, and a relatively weak Columbia--recognizable as the US, although the Dutch culture lingers in the Northeast--is racing against the powerful Austro- Hungarian empire to develop ghost-removal technology. Doktor Johan Eschbach is a retired spy and minister, now teaching environmental economics at a small college in New Bruges. (A bit of sleuthing with an atlas suggests that New Bruges encompasses New Hampshire.) The murder of a member of the music faculty embroils Eschbach in a power struggle between several foreign governments as well as different factions in his own government. The murder mystery is relegated to an afterthought, and Eschbach's solution to the espionage tangle is rather appalling and not entirely credible. But the plot moves swiftly, and the depth of the alternate culture causes Columbia to seem truly foreign even while it remains recognizable. Modesitt is rather occasionally rather blatant about pointing out the differences in his history; his characters have a tendency to recapitulate a few centuries of history whenever they discuss current events. But the little cultural asides that he works into conversations and his descriptions of Eschbach's daily minutiae lend depth and detail to his world. _Of Tangible Ghosts_ bears little resemblance to Modesitt's Recluce fantasies (no onomatopeia!) or his science fiction (no widespread violence and destruction); it's a more thoughtful book, and his prose is somehow cleaner. I enjoyed it, and I think it'll appeal to Modesitt fans who don't mind a calmer style. "What about a sense of wonder? Take ghosts," I offered. "We see a ghost, and whether we like it or not, it exists. You can't touch it, exactly, and you can't tell exactly when it will appear. Doesn't it make you wonder?" I shrugged. "But you talk about...what if there were a world where there were no ghosts? How would that change things? I asked that in a class. No one knew. They hadn't even thought about it." "That's it. They don't even think about it. How could you envision a _Hamlet_ without the impetus of his father's ghost?" %A Modesitt, L. E. Jr. %T Of Tangible Ghosts %I Tor %C New York %D October 1994 %G ISBN 0-312-85720-9 %P 381pp %O hardback, US $22.95 -- Christina Schulman Presbyterian University Hospital schulman+@pitt.edu From rec.arts.sf.reviews Fri Nov 11 12:52:30 1994 Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written,rec.arts.sf.reviews Path: news.ifm.liu.se!news.kth.se!sunic!lunic.luth.se!eru.mt.luth.se!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!gatech!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!postmodern.com!not-for-mail From: dani@telerama.lm.com (Dani Zweig) Subject: Modesitt: Of Tangible Ghosts Message-ID: <39m3no$4k7@asia.lm.com> Followup-To: rec.arts.sf.written Sender: mcb@postmodern.com (Michael C. Berch) Organization: Telerama Public Access Internet, Pittsburgh, PA USA Date: Thu, 10 Nov 1994 05:23:06 GMT Approved: mcb@postmodern.com (rec.arts.sf.reviews moderator) Lines: 53 Xref: news.ifm.liu.se rec.arts.sf.written:80754 rec.arts.sf.reviews:668 L.E. Modesitt Jr. is a highly uneven writer of science fiction and fantasy, sometimes producing innovative and enjoyable books and sometimes falling short. In "Of Tangible Ghosts", he turns his efforts to alternate history, with uneven results. The year is 1993, in a world that has turned out differently than ours. Instead of a fundamentally English USA, for instance, there is a fundamentally Dutch Columbia. The most important difference is the existence of ghosts: People who die unnatural deaths leave ghosts behind for a few years or decades. The strategic significance is that war leaves behind enough ghosts to render conquered territory unusable for decades. In this world, as a result, a conflict corresponding to World War II (the aggressors are the Austro-Hungarians) has been sputtering along in slow motion for decades. Research on ghosts is of great strategic importance. Superimposed upon this background is a low-key cloak-and-dagger story that (with some details changed) could as easily have taken place in our world. Johann Eschbach is a retired minister of the environment (this world is somewhat Greener than ours) who is now teaching at a small New England (not called that) university. He's also a retired agent of the secret police (not called that). When a murder takes place at his school, it becomes apparent that two factions in Washington (not called that) are planning to pin it on him, each in order to discredit the other. The two stories don't interact well. The author has gone to a great deal of work in constructing his alternate history, and is constantly intruding upon the story to let us know it. The story itself is resolved with a bit of cloak-and-daggering, but mostly through the use of a couple of plot devices -- a gadget that was in the right place at the right time, and a ghost ditto. It's a well-realized world, and the cloak-and-daggering is understated and interesting. The book doesn't end, though, so much as peter out. Wait for the paperback. %A Modesitt, L.E. Jr. %T Of Tangible Ghosts %I Tor %C New York %D October, 1994 %G ISBN 0-312-85720-9 %P 381pp %O $22.95 ----- Dani Zweig dani@telerama.lm.com "You have the reputation of being one of the nicest guys in the field. We both know you're a hyena on its hind legs. How have you fooled everyone?" "By keeping my mouth shut when I read garbage" -- Gene Wolfe From rec.arts.sf.reviews Thu Jan 5 13:30:28 1995 Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.reviews,rec.arts.books.reviews,alt.history.what-if Path: news.ifm.liu.se!liuida!sunic!pipex!howland.reston.ans.net!ix.netcom.com!netcom.com!postmodern.com!not-for-mail From: ecl@mtgpfs1.mt.att.com (Evelyn C Leeper) Subject: OF TANGIBLE GHOSTS by L. E. Modesitt, Jr. Message-ID: <9412141713.ZM14953-repost@mtgpfs1.mt.att.com> Followup-To: rec.arts.sf.written Sender: mcb@postmodern.com (Michael C. Berch) Organization: The Internet Date: Thu, 5 Jan 1995 02:57:46 GMT Approved: mcb@postmodern.com (rec.arts.sf.reviews moderator) Lines: 63 Xref: news.ifm.liu.se rec.arts.sf.reviews:704 rec.arts.books.reviews:173 alt.history.what-if:10423 OF TANGIBLE GHOSTS by L. E. Modesitt, Jr. Tor, ISBN 0-312-85720-9, 1994, 381pp, $22.95 A book review by Evelyn C. Leeper Copyright 1994 Evelyn C. Leeper In WINGS OF DESIRE, the Peter Falk character comments on the fact that every story seems to involve a murder mystery. Well, that's not quite true, but adding a murder mystery to another type of story may attract twice the audience of either one alone, and hence is appealing to writers of popular fiction. And sometimes an alternate history can be combined with a murder mystery to good effect (witness Len Deighton's SS-GB). But sometimes it can't, and this is an example of that. The problem isn't that the alternate history is insufficient--it does have some problems, but none that couldn't be forgiven if the story carried it along. The problem is rather that there is too much in this book: an alternate history, ghosts, a murder, a fascination with food, etc. In this universe, the Dutch rather than the English maintained control of eastern North America until its independence as Columbia, and the other major powers include France, Spain, and Chung Kuo (China). The reason for these changes is supposedly because ghosts exist, and so mass murders and battles were avoided because of the problems of mass hauntings which followed. The problem as I see it is that this would have changed history so far back that Holland, France, Spain, and Chung Kuo might never have existed. (Ancient conquerors would certainly not have killed all the male inhabitants of cities they conquered ad then occupied the city.) But Modesitt does a bit of hand-waving to claim the effect was not really noticed until the Age of Exploration. Modesitt also suffers from the same weakness that many alternate history authors have: a desire to show what happened to just about everyone who was famous in our world. So we get Ambassador Schikelgruber, and "aging movie stars like Anne Frances Davis [who] could never forget her one great love, an obscure football announcer named Dutch." The murder mystery is tied up with all sorts of political intrigue which requires the reader to keep the various internal and external politics of this universe. But for some reason, Modesitt spends an inordinate amount of time talking about food. (I opened the book fifteen times at random; seven of these times there was some mention of specific foods being consumed.) There are some good ideas here, but this particular mixture just doesn't work. Even the alternate history aspect can't redeem this novel, alas. %A Modesitt, L. E., Jr. %T Of Tangible Ghosts %I Tor %C New York %D November 1994 %G ISBN 0-312-85720-9 %P 381pp %O hardcover, $22.95 -- Evelyn C. Leeper | +1 908 957 2070 | Evelyn.Leeper@att.com There's always an easy solution to every human problem - neat, plausible, and wrong. -- H.L. Mencken From rec.arts.sf.written Tue Jan 24 12:50:57 1995 Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written Path: news.ifm.liu.se!liuida!sunic!uunet!news.sprintlink.net!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!news.Stanford.EDU!kithrup.com!sef From: sef@kithrup.com (Sean Eric Fagan) Subject: _The Order War_, by L. E. Modesitt Jr. (SPOILERS) Organization: Kithrup Enterprises, Ltd. Message-ID: Date: Sun, 22 Jan 1995 02:12:25 GMT Lines: 57 [ This is not posted to rec.arts.sf.reviews because the moderators for that group have lost or delayed every single posting I've made over the past year or so, and I am fed up with them. -- sef ] _The Order War_ is Modesitt's fourth book about Recluce; the first three were (in order of publication) _The Magic of Recluce_, _The Towers of Sunset_, and _The Magic Engineer_. tOW is my least favorite of them all. My main problem with it, really, is that too much of it seems *forced* -- especially some bits that seem done largely for continuity with tMoR. For those unfamiliar with it, well, you shouldn't buy the book, but should go out and read _The Magic of Recluce_ -- it is a good book, and I'll probably go reread it after I finish this. The series takes place somewhere where entropy is a lot more flexible than it is here, and can be influenced by humans as much or more than natural forces. There is a pretty solid past referenced in tMoR, and the other three books take place before it, and fill out some of it. I've read tOW twice now, once as a readers' copy a couple of months ago, and just now with the copy I bought. The fact that I was willing to reread it does say something about it -- however, it has taken me nearly all week to reread it, since it didn't grab my attention the way other books have. Some of the problems I had with it, continuity problems, I've included below, after the control-L, as they could be spoilers, so I'll just jump ahead to my two-sentence review of the book: As a hardcover book, it is probably not worth your buy unless you absolutely loved any of the Recluce books. If you can find it used, or at a library, I'd recommend going that route first. (Note, though, that I *did* buy it, and, having read it before, I knew what I was in for.) As an aside, after I read _The Magic Engineer_, I was pretty certain this book would come out, and predicted one or two others in the series when I posted a review of it. Now, I'll predict one or two more books in the series again -- one book which would take place after tMoR (it is hinted at in a prophecy in one of the books, I forget which one), and *maybe* a book taking place even before tToS. Spoilers below. In both tMoR and tToS, it is made fairly clear that Black magicians live longer -- sometimes a *lot* longer -- than other people (and, in fact, it's hinted at that White magicians tend to live fast, die young, and not even leave a corpse). One line in tMoR supports this, something like, "I could keep her young the way my father kept my mother young." Yet Modesitt blows this completely, having this longevity done through immortality, not just a natural characteristic of the Black magicians. The major character of this book, Justen, appeared significantly in tMoR. But I just absolutely cannot reconcile *this* Justen with the one in tMoR. They are completely different characters, and some of the things Justen does in this book should have shown up in the first one. Obviously, Modesitt changed his mind about things, but internal inconsistency bugs me a lot. From rec.arts.sf.reviews Thu Nov 19 14:24:30 1998 Path: news.ifm.liu.se!news.lth.se!feed1.news.luth.se!luth.se!fu-berlin.de!howland.erols.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!senator-bedfellow.mit.edu!usenet From: sfrevu@aol.com (SFRevu) Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.reviews Subject: Review: The Ghost of the Revelator by L.E. Modesitt, Jr. Followup-To: rec.arts.sf.written Date: 17 Nov 1998 14:56:21 -0500 Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Lines: 61 Sender: wex@tinbergen.media.mit.edu Approved: wex@media.mit.edu Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: tinbergen.media.mit.edu X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Xref: news.ifm.liu.se rec.arts.sf.reviews:2174 The Ghost of the Revelator by L.E. Modesitt, Jr. Review Copyright 1998 by Ernest Lilley In L.E.Modesitt, Jr.'s Alternate Universe, there never was a United States of America. Washington died before taking office, and Adams wasn't the man for the job. Europe is in tatters, France destroyed under the heel of a despot, and North America is made up of nations struggling for control of precious energy resources. Johan Esbach is a retired Minister of the Colombian Government, as well as a former member of the Colombian Intelligence Agency, the Spazi. Johan is supremely content with his position as university professor, sharing his family homestead with his beautiful wife, the former French Diva - Lysette DuBois. Both are back from Modesitt's earlier book, OF TANGIBLE GHOSTS, whose back story colors the present novel without dominating it. GHOST OF THE REVELATOR is a sequel, but aside from the lack of a much needed map of the territories in question and a few well placed paragraphs about the divergence of this alternate timeline, it stands on its own quite well. In the previous book Lysette lost France, freedom, and her music. Settling in New Bruges with Johan, accepting a teaching position at University and teaching voice to "Dutch Dunderheads" is survival, of a sort, but - for one once expected to develop into the world's next Prima Donna - hardly living. Johan is devoted to his wife. Happy to be retired from politics and intrigue, and hopeful that the closet full of ghost creation technology hidden in his study will never need to see the light of day again. Ghosts, are very much a real part of Modesitt's universe. They are the astral component of each of us, released in death to pass onto another plane if lucky, bound to the spot if not. Bad luck manifests itself as violent death or other psychic trauma. Recent advances in difference engine technology (You remember, Gibson, Sterling, THE DIFFERENCE ENGINE? Computers, you dunderheads!) allow the artificial creation and destruction of ghosts. Johan is one of the few who possesses the technology, the legacy of his previous adventures. The Colombian Government is the other, and neither is telling anyone. When Lysette is suddenly given an invitation to perform for the Mormon Nation of Deseret, at the arts center in Salt Lake City, the innocent recognition of her talents seems at hand. But innocent is something former Spazi Agents aren't, and when briefing materials concerning the impending performance and the oncoming energy crisis and negotiations between Columbia and Deseret start appearing in unmarked manila envelopes Johan knows better than to take things at face value. When the attempts on their lives begin, he reluctantly realizes that no matter how much he might enjoy retirement from the Intel community, it's time to shed his turtle shell and again become the hunter, lest his new wife be the hunted. Esbach is my kind of Secret Agent. Quiet, thoughtful, observant, a great cook and a loving husband. And when need be, incredibly deadly and without remorse. Ian Fleming would have enjoyed Esbach (Esbach.... Johan Esbach....) if he were alive today. Of course in Modesitt's universe his ghost may yet. THE GHOST OF THE REVELATOR is part Alternate History, part Hard SF, and from beginning to end a superb piece of fiction. %G ISBN 0-312-86426-4 %I Tor Hrdcvr %D Sep-98 %T The Ghost of the Revelator %A L.E. Modesitt, Jr. From rec.arts.sf.reviews Tue Aug 31 23:31:54 1999 Path: news.ifm.liu.se!news.lth.se!feed2.news.luth.se!luth.se!news-peer-europe.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!netnews.com!newsfeed.enteract.com!cde.net!sipb-server-1.mit.edu!senator-bedfellow.mit.edu!usenet From: tillman@aztec.asu.edu (P.D. TILLMAN) Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.reviews Subject: Short Take: Gravity Dreams by LE Modesitt, Jr. Followup-To: rec.arts.sf.written Date: 31 Aug 1999 16:18:15 -0400 Organization: none Lines: 42 Sender: wex@basil.media.mit.edu Approved: wex@media.mit.edu Message-ID: Reply-To: tillman@aztec.asu.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: basil.media.mit.edu X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.3 Xref: news.ifm.liu.se rec.arts.sf.reviews:2446 Short Take: Gravity Dreams by LE Modesitt, Jr. Review Copyright 1999 Peter D. Tillman Rating: "B-" -- interesting backstory, but a slow, bloated novel. The best thing about Gravity Dreams is the backstory. Set 5,000 years from now, a post-collapse Earth supports static "mite" cultures, secretly dominated by the spacegoing nanotech Rykasha "demons." Modesitt's themes include ecology, personal responsibility; and passive, fatalistic ("eastern") vs. dynamic ("western") culture. A nice setup, but flabby execution: Gravity Dreams starts out so slowly that I almost gave up, and kinda wish I had. About 75 pages in ("Sciamachy"), the pace picks up, but once the protag enters starpilot flight school... well, I learned far more about needleship [note 1] flight training than I'd *ever* want to know. "It's a sin to waste the reader's time" -- LvC Niven. Gravity Dreams would have made a nice novella, but there just isn't enough substance here to fill 400 pages. For diehard Modesitt fans only -- and they'll want to skim. Modesitt's previous five SF outings -- Parafaith War, Ecolitan Enigma, Adiamante, Of Tangible Ghosts & Ghosts of the Revelator (reviewed, and recommended, at site below) -- were all good to excellent, so I can forgive one clunker. If you haven't tried Modesitt's SF, don't start with Gravity Dreams! ___________ (1) -- one nice touch is a needleship named "Costigan". %T Gravity Dreams %A LE Modesitt, Jr. %D Jul 99 %I Tor %O $US 25 %P 399 pp %G ISBN 0-312-86826-x) review copyright 1999 by Peter D. Tillman Read more of my reviews: http://www.silcom.com/~manatee/reviewer.html#tillman