From rec.arts.sf-lovers Fri Nov 16 12:04:25 1990 Path: herkules.sssab.se!isy!liuida!sunic!mcsun!uunet!samsung!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!ub!uhura.cc.rochester.edu!rochester!pt.cs.cmu.edu!o.gp.cs.cmu.edu!andrew.cmu.edu!haste+ From: haste+@andrew.cmu.edu (Dani Zweig) Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf-lovers Subject: Tigana Message-ID: Date: 13 Nov 90 00:25:15 GMT Organization: Graduate School of Industrial Administration, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA Lines: 28 "Tigana", by Guy Gavriel Kay, is set in a small land which was conquered and partitioned by two rival invaders. Now, a generation later, a plot to free that land is unfolding. It is a plot which must unseat both the invaders, because if one falls, there will remain no check on the power of the other. The most informative way to evaluate this book might be to compare it to Kay's previous work: The Fionavar Tapestry. I'd rate Tigana as being a bit better crafted, albeit a bit less fun to read. The Fionavar Tapestry was High Fantasy, with Great Doings, Great Magics, and the Fate of the Multiverse at stake. The scope of Tigana is far more limited. What is at stake is the political and cultural future of one isolated land -- and it turns out that viable and honorable alternatives to the plot do exist, relatively small magics are used, and then only seldom, there are few Great Doings, and such battles as are fought are fought largely off-stage. Rather, and to a far greater extent than in The Fionavar Tapestry, the focus is on the characters: how they develop, what conquest does to them, what rebellion does to them. Such a focus doesn't make for as *exciting* a book but it makes for one which is almost as good. Four stars out of five. ----- Dani Zweig haste+@andrew.cmu.edu 'T is with our judgements as our watches, none Go alike, yet each believes his own --Alexander Pope From rec.arts.sf.written Mon Feb 15 15:37:42 1993 Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.written Path: lysator.liu.se!isy!liuida!sunic!mcsun!Germany.EU.net!ira.uka.de!scsing.switch.ch!univ-lyon1.fr!ghost.dsi.unimi.it!rpi!uwm.edu!wupost!csus.edu!netcom.com!dani From: dani@netcom.com (Dani Zweig) Subject: Guy Gavriel Kay: A Song for Arbonne Message-ID: <1993Feb13.095505.16989@netcom.com> Organization: Netcom Online Communications Services (408-241-9760 login: guest) Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1993 09:55:05 GMT Lines: 62 Does Guy Gavriel Kay's "A Song for Arbonne" really need another positive review? Not really, but it couldn't hurt: Some drums bear repeated beating. To set the appropriate tone, though, I'll start by quoting a verse from Phil Alcock's "Publish and Be Damned": "We feel your novel suffers from pretensions The plot, you see, is really too complex: All your characters have more than two dimensions There ought to be more violence and more sex. We want a happy ending; yours is tragic: The hero doesn't even get the girl! No dragons, elves, or dwarves, or even magic You really have designed a boring world! Write for us a trilogy, A four- or five-book trilogy..." "A Song for Arbonne" is, essentially, an alternate-history fantasy. The book has few formal fantasy elements -- beyond its being placed in a world that never was -- and those elements are not that important to the story. It isn't precisely an alternate history -- or, if it is, it's *very* alternate -- because there are two moons, but aside from that, the setting is a recognizable late-medieval Europe. The world is one in which Christianity never developed. The dominant religion is semi-pagan, worshipping a vaguely Celtic God and Goddess. Perhaps for that reason, perhaps not, its Roman Empire or equivalent fell sooner and harder than ours, and is barely remembered myth. Those differences, though, are allowed to make exceedingly little difference to the society that develops. Arbonne itself is patterned on (13th-century?) Provence, in the south of France. (Perhaps an idealized Provence: One gets the indistinct impression that the inhabitants have good teeth and working drains.) It is a land of troubadors and Courtly Love. Gorhaut, to its north, is Arbonne's warlike and patriarchal antithesis: It's a land in which the Goddess gets short shrift (as do women in general), and which is controlled by a man determined to destroy Arbonne. (The next-most significant country appears to be patterned on 15th-century Italy. Go figure.) A boring world: No dragons, elves, or dwarves, and no magic that makes a difference. Just a world like our own. (I find myself spending a lot more time writing about the setting than about the story. That's fair enough. It's the setting -- and the people who inhabit it -- that stay with me most vividly.) "A Song for Arbonne" represents Kay's best writing to date. "The Fionavar Tapestry" is great fun to read, but its a reworking of standard epic fantasy. "Tigana" represents better and more original writing, but it was never as much fun to read. This book kept me turning the pages. The absence of fantasy elements may have been an advantage; they're a crutch. This book stands or falls on the authors ability to make the characters live and to make the reader care what happens to them. Stands, as it turns out. ----- Dani Zweig dani@netcom.com 'T is with our judgements as our watches, none Go alike, yet each believes his own --Alexander Pope From /tmp/sf.15692 Tue Mar 30 18:17:35 1993 Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.reviews Path: lysator.liu.se!isy!liuida!sunic!uunet!gumby!wupost!micro-heart-of-gold.mit.edu!news.media.mit.edu!nobody From: cash@convex.com (Peter Cash) Subject: Review: A SONG FOR ARBONNE Message-ID: <1993Feb24.031653.344@news.eng.convex.com> Followup-To: rec.arts.sf.written Sender: news@news.media.mit.edu (USENET News System) Organization: The Instrumentality Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1993 14:39:23 GMT Approved: wex@media.mit.edu (Alan Wexelblat) Lines: 127 Guy Gavriel Kay's _Tigana_ is one of the best fantasy novels I've ever read. Few novels in this (or any) genre rise to the level of complexity in character and plot, or show as much originality as _Tigana_; even fewer manage to be so thoroughly enjoyable. Kay's earlier books--a trilogy collectively entitled _Fionavar Tapestry_ (comprised of _The Summer Tree_, _The Wandering Fire_, and _The Darkest Road_) displayed occasional flashes of originality, but on the whole was too derivative of Tolkien. (The influence of Tolkien is easy to understand: Kay worked with Christopher Tolkien in editing _The Silmarilion_). _Tigana_ seemed to mark the emergence of a new talent--there was a qualitative progression between the trilogy and the later book that promised even better things to come. Unfortunately, Kay's new book, _A Song for Arbonne_ is merely adequate, and is not the great book I had hoped for. While SfA is of a more even--and overall higher--quality than _Fionavar Tapestry_, it is not in the same league as _Tigana_. SfA is competent--nothing less, and nothing more; it does not sparkle. This book is set in a region of what Kay may intend to be the same world as that in which _Tigana_ takes place. If this is indeed the same world, then surely the Palm of _Tigana_ is in a different quarter of the globe from Arbonne, and there is little traffic or commonality between the two. In fact, the world of Arbonne looks a good deal like our own, except that it has two moons; the only thing that makes SfA a fantasy novel is that it is set in no recognizable geographical or historical venue. That is not to say that we do not find things familiar in Arbonne. In fact, Arbonne often seems _too_ familiar. For example, it is a realm characterized by a painful attention to political correctness--in Arbonne, all women are strong, the men are sensitive, and gays are noble. This is not to say that strong women, sensitive men, or noble homosexuals are in themselves objectionable--it's just that Kay is so _earnest_ about these things that SfA at times resembles a sermon instead of a story. Arbonne might best be described as a leftist vision of medieval France strongly influenced by the cult of "courtly love"--love as it was in the songs of the troubadours of 11th Century Provence. In this era, all marriages of the nobility were arranged (or forced) for the sake of political necessity. Partly out of reaction to this, partly as a result of the scarcity of women in courts of this time, a cult of "courtly love" grew up in which women were exalted as ideal creatures, and men their humble servants. Love in such songs was never between husband and wife, but always between noble ladies and men to whom they were _not_ married. As one would expect, Arbonne has barons and castles and tournaments; above all, there are troubadours and lots of romantic songs. Though women are still forced into loveless marriages, they manage to wield most of the power in Arbonne due to their strength of character--and the influence of a matriarchal deity worshipped in Arbonne. It could be a pleasant sort of place, a place one might want to visit in one's imagination--if Kay didn't take it so very seriously. While Arbonne is politically correct, its northern neighbor Gorhaut is dominated by a most incorrect misogynistic warrior-cult. Central to the plot of SfA are the efforts of the monomaniacal high priest of this cult, Galbert de Garsenc, to rape, pillage and burn Arbonne because...well...because it's there. And because he _hates_ women, and a goddess is worshipped in Arbonne. Galbert's son, Blaise, is intended to become an initiate of the warrior-cult, and eventually to follow his father as high priest. However, Blaise has ideas of his own; his rebelliousnes eventually forces him into exile in Arbonne. Once in Arbonne, Blaise--disguised as a simple mercenary--overcomes his initial distaste for the feminized culture to the extent that he eventually fights to frustrate his father's designs on Arbonne. The novel's narrative tempo is, particularly in the first third of the book, too sedate. There are lengthy soliloquys, descriptions, and asides. Kay was reaching for depth, detail, and sophistication--but mostly he comes up with mere verbosity. Still, Blaise's adventures--and Galbert's machinations--should manage to keep the readers interest until the end. This ending is, however, something of a disappointment--particularly if the reader expects fireworks of the kind that come at the end of _Tigana_. Instead of fireworks, we get something of a squib. Perhaps the problem with Arbonne is that there is very little magic there. One might ask whether this is a fair criticism--after all, if Kay wanted to write something that had more of the flavor of a historical romance than a fantasy, is it right to criticize him for writing a book more in this genre and not another? In this case, the criticism is justified. If Arbonne were a more magical world, it would have worked; but as it is, Arbonne is not fantastical--it is merely unreal. Well-handled magic would have prompted me to suspend disbelief, and to refrain from asking questions that kept coming to my mind as I read this book. Had Arbonne been more magical, I would not, for example, have been tempted to ask myself whether the castles have indoor plumbing, or if the cities have sewage systems. I would not have wondered what the mineral resources of Arbonne are, or its main cash crops, or its gross national product, or whether it has a postal service. As it is, Arbonne is prosaic enough that all these questions--and more--come to mind as one reads this book. If an atuhor wants to write realistic fiction, then he must do a proper job of it. If he wants to write about an imaginary country that is nevertheless realistic, then he must think about natural resources, history, topography, geography, and demography. In fact, it's probably easier just to do the research and write historical fiction than to make up real-seeming countries and places. This deficiency goes beyond a lack of background--it extends to the motivations of the characters as well. If Kay wants me to think that Arbonne and Gorhaut are earth-like places that work in a pretty earth-like way, then he's going to have to provide more than the simple motivations in SfA. In a fantasy, I might not think twice about a scheming high priest who inveigles his king into pillaging a neighboring state solely because he hates women. But in the real world, things just don't work that way. In the real world, one is troubled by accountants and petty functionaries, and not even magnificently monomaniacal high priests get their way so easily. As I said near the beginning of this review, _Song for Arbonne_ is adequate. Perhaps I wouldn't have been so disappointed if I had waited for the paperback instead of shelling out $20 for the hardbound version. %T A SONG FOR ARBONNE %A Guy Gavriel Kay %I Crown Publishers, Inc. New York %D 1992 %G ISBN 0-517-59312-2 %P 513 pages -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ | Die Welt ist alles, was Zerfall ist. | Peter Cash | (apologies to Ludwig Wittgenstein) |cash@convex.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ From new Thu Jun 16 18:54:08 1994 Xref: liuida alt.books.reviews:2978 rec.arts.books:81750 rec.arts.sf.written:55167 Path: liuida!sunic!pipex!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!munnari.oz.au!metro!news.cs.su.oz.au!news From: danny@moria.cs.su.oz.au (Danny) Newsgroups: alt.books.reviews,rec.arts.books,rec.arts.sf.written Subject: Book Review - Tigana / A Song for Arbonne Followup-To: rec.arts.sf.written Date: 28 Mar 1994 03:22:17 GMT Organization: Basser Dept of Computer Science, University of Sydney, Australia Lines: 88 Sender: danny@cs.su.oz.au (Danny) Message-ID: <2n5ih9$ljl@staff.cs.su.oz.au> Reply-To: danny@cs.su.oz.au (Danny) NNTP-Posting-Host: moria.cs.su.oz.au title: Tigana by: Guy Gavriel Kay publisher: Penguin 1990 subjects: fantasy other: 688 pages summary: genuine tragedy is rare in fantasy title: A Song for Arbonne by: Guy Gavriel Kay publisher: HarperCollins 1992 subjects: fantasy other: 608 pages summary: a pleasant Provencal song Guy Gavriel Kay made an impressive debut with his first novel, the _Fionvar Tapestry_ trilogy. _Tigana_ and _A Song for Arbonne_, his second and third novels, are worthy successors. It is particularly good to see that he took his time writing them; it is all too easy for successful fantasy novelists to sell trash, and many of them fall victim to the Vulg the Visigoth syndrome [Ursula LeGuin, _The Language of the Night_]. An increasing use of historical rather than fantastic elements is also notable, and here Kay has clearly done his research properly. (Although so much modern fantasy depends on political, historical and military plotting for interest, these are rarely treated with any sophistication, and the results are sometimes nauseating to the knowledgeable reader.) The world of _Tigana_ is very clearly based on renaissance Italy, both in language and culture and in geopolitics - in this case a land of city states dominated by two foreign sorcerers. One strand of the story follows a group of outcasts from the magically annihilated state of Tigana, who move around fomenting unrest against the tyrants. This is pretty straightforward fantasy material, but it is much better done than usual and contains a number of original ideas. The other strand centres on one of the two sorcerers, King Brandin of Ygrath, and his concubine Dianora. This is both a love story and a tragedy, and was so compelling that I was continually tempted to skip the other strand in order to follow it. There is hardly a trace of the contrived plotting and characterisation that marred _The Fionvar Tapestry_, and the different strands of the novel are cleverly woven together. _Tigana_ is a very impressive work, and it would probably make a list of my favourite ten fantasy novels. _A Song for Arbonne_, while enjoyable, was rather disappointing after _Tigana_. The events and plot are predictable, the characters are just too nice and, in the end, nothing much really happens. The gist of the plot is that Arbonne (based on medieval Provence) is threatened by invasion from Gorhaut (controlled by the bad guys) and the hero (an exile from Gorhaut) joins the good guys and saves the day. There is no hint of tragedy and hardly any real conflict. This is not grounds for abandoning the author, however, and I look forward to Kay's next novel. -- %T Tigana %A Guy Gavriel Kay %I Penguin %C London %D 1990 %O paperback %G ISBN 0-14-013010-1 %P 688pp %K fantasy %T A Song for Arbonne %A Guy Gavriel Kay %I HarperCollins %C London %D 1992 %O paperback %G ISBN 0-586-21677-4 %P 608pp %K fantasy Danny Yee (danny@cs.su.oz.au) 28 III 94 --------------------------------------------------------------------- This review and other reviews by Danny Yee are available by anonymous ftp from ftp.cs.su.oz.au in danny/book-reviews. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Comments on my reviews are always welcome. Criticism of any kind is particularly appreciated - anything from pointing out spelling mistakes to disagreement with the basic assumptions of the review. --------------------------------------------------------------------- From rec.arts.sf.reviews Tue Aug 23 21:22:55 1994 Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.reviews Path: news.ifm.liu.se!liuida!sunic!pipex!howland.reston.ans.net!agate!library.ucla.edu!csulb.edu!csus.edu!netcom.com!postmodern.com!not-for-mail From: MATHIEU@embl-heidelberg.de (Magali Mathieu) Subject: A Song for Arbonne by Guy Gavriel Kay Message-ID: <01HFZBT0R3W2CV9CFS@EMBL-Heidelberg.DE> Followup-To: rec.arts.sf.written Sender: mcb@postmodern.com (Michael C. Berch) Organization: The Internet Date: Tue, 23 Aug 1994 06:56:07 GMT Approved: mcb@postmodern.com (rec.arts.sf.reviews moderator) Lines: 66 A Song for Arbonne by Guy Gavriel Kay I have seen a few reviews on Arbonne, but I thought I would give you the point of view of someone from South of France... First thing : the setting is not inspired by medieval Provence, but by medieval *Languedoc* , which at the time comprised all the south of France, from the Pyrenees to Provence. To give you an idea, important towns of the time were Toulouse, Carcassonne, Beziers, Albi, Narbonne (ever heard this name ?), all way west of Provence. Just something I wanted to clarify (and it's not because I'm from Beziers myself...:-) I bought Arbonne only because I had read Tigana, and I had not the slightest idea about its content, so I was quite nicely surprised (and a bit afraid) when reading the introduction. Already looking at the map, I could guess the origins of the names of the various towns and lands, and in fact I had and still have problems remembering some of them since I constantly confused them with their 'real' counterparts (Miraval / Miramas being the best example). All along the book I had this feeling of reading two stories at the same time, the one told in the book, and the one from which it was inspired. Two examples (with maybe some mistakes in them, but overall correct) : in medieval France (at the time of the hundred years war between England and France), there was a man, Gaston Phoebus, count of Foix and Bearn, who was madly in love with his wife. She was killed, and this started years of rivality between him and the family of Navarre, whom he suspected of the crime. I should add that Gaston Phoebus was a man of great culture, and that he also wrote a song in memory of his love. Remind you of someone ? Before the time of Phoebus : Languedoc (as opposed to Languedoil, which was kind of like north of France) was rich, cultured, and tolerant. Because of the latter, a heresy was successfull in it, the catharism, and the cathares were living in peace with the rest of the Christian (and Jewish) population. This was not well accepted first by the pope, then by the king of France, and so started the Crusade of the Albigeois. This crusade was also the excuse for the invasion of the south of France, and lots of killing went on at the time (with the famous scene in front of Beziers : when asked how to make the difference between proper christians and cathares, the priest in charge answered : 'Kill them all, God will recognise his owns') Anyway, I really enjoyed Arbonne. The characters are maybe not as much developed than in Tigana, but they all feel real, and the atmospher of the story more than makes up for that. Furthermore, this 'two-degrees' reading was a great experience, and because of the richness of the world, and all the references to our world (most of them I'm pretty sure I missed, mainly concerning the troubadours), it gave the feeling of an alternative history. I can only warmly recommend 'A song for Arbonne', and I'm looking forward to anything Guy Gavriel Kay will write ! Magali %A Kay, Guy Gavriel %T A Song for Arbonne %I HarperCollins %C London %D 1992 %G ISBN 0-586-21677-4 %P 608pp %O paperback From rec.arts.sf.reviews Thu Oct 30 14:23:03 1997 Path: news.ifm.liu.se!news.lth.se!eru.mt.luth.se!luth.se!feed1.news.erols.com!news.idt.net!netnews.com!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!news.media.mit.edu!not-for-mail From: Mysterious Galaxy Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.reviews,alt.books.reviews,rec.arts.books Subject: Review: _Tigana_ by Guy Gavriel Kay Followup-To: rec.arts.sf.written Date: 07 Oct 1997 14:51:15 -0400 Organization: AXNET Communications, Inc.; San Diego, CA, USA Lines: 33 Approved: wex@media.mit.edu Message-ID: Reply-To: mystgalaxy@ax.com NNTP-Posting-Host: kangaroo.media.mit.edu X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Xref: news.ifm.liu.se rec.arts.sf.reviews:1551 alt.books.reviews:42136 rec.arts.books:220463 _Tigana_ by Guy Gavriel Kay Review Copyright 1997 Elizabeth Baldwin Looking for books to take on vacation that were stand-alone volumes, a friend recommended _Tigana_, a fantasy novel he considered to be classic and beautifully crafted. He was right. Tigana is the name of a country remembered only in the minds and souls of its crushed citizenry. 20 years earlier, Tigana was decimated by a conquering wizard, Brandin of Yrgrath, when his beloved son Stevan was killed in the first battle to overtake this country. It was a sorrow so overwhelming for Brandin he ravaged Tigana, destroying her cities, culture and history. Brandin's powers are so great, he is able to insure through his magic that even when spoken, no one can hear or remember the name Tigana except survivors. One such survivor is the third son of Valentin, the last king of Tigana. Now grown to manhood, Alessan plots a Machiavellian scheme to bring down not only one, but two conquering wizards, in his plans to set free and reclaim his country and his people. Kay has created a living, passionate story told in depth and with style, and has accomplished the telling of this beautiful tale, in one (albeit large) volume. Originally published in 1990, it certainly took me long enough to discover this gem. Somebody knows what they're doing by keeping this novel in print! Highly recommended, in paperback from %P Roc %O $6.99 P.S Thank you, Joel! -- Elizabeth Baldwin