The Avalyn Digest

Vol.98 #066

April 30th, 1998

http://www.lysator.liu.se/~chief/avalyn.html

Today's Topics: Random Thoughts Re: Random Thoughts Re: davebp@postmaster.co.uk is a... (no slowdive content) read this erik Re: davebp@postmaster.co.uk is a nice guy... Was Random Thoughts- is now opinions Re: davebp@postmaster.co.uk is a... (no slowdive content) Re: pale saints and emotive force Re: pale saints and emotive force Re: Was Random Thoughts- is now opinions MESSAGE TO SIIM KALDER Pale Saints EPs Re: Was Random Thoughts- is now opinions Administrivia: To unsubscribe from the Avalyn Digest mailing list: * send e-mail to: avalyn-d-request@lysator.liu.se * with the Subject: unsubscribe To post to the Avalyn mailing list: * use the address: avalyn@lysator.liu.se Digest back issues can be found through FTP and HTTP: ftp://ftp.lysator.liu.se/pub/texts/uxu/avalyn/ http://www.lysator.liu.se/~chief/avalyn.html () Please take care not to include the entire digest in your () reply, only the message(s) you are replying to. ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 13:19:45 -0700 From: Travis Rust Subject: Random Thoughts As a relatively new subscriber to the list (only recent on the internet), I am under the impression from a recent post that The Verve's Urban Hymns was not received well by list members. I don't intend to bring up past discussions but would appreciate a general consensus from someone. Although I find the album to be their best yet, it is obviously a different style. Then again, if I could only own one release it would be the Verve EP. "Gravity Grave"-my vote for best bassline ever. Songwriting-there are too many ways to define "good" songwriting, so I'll put it this way: "good (in my opinion)" songwriting--Swervedriver, The Smiths, Joy Division, Moose, and, of course, Slowdive. "good (in the opinion of the purchasing public)" songwriting-Celine Dion, Alanis Morrissette, George "one hand in my pocket" Michael After listening to the Mojave 3 set from the SXSW festival at the Rolling Stone site, I have again realized that this is the perfect name for this band. There's something about the music that conjures up visions of dusty desert highways and breathtaking vistas. My point? Are there any music videos off of Ask Me Tomorrow? "Love Songs," possibly? Also, as a filmmaker living in Arizona, USA, I would love to pursue the opportunity of producing a music video to a song off the new album (with 4ad's money or my own). I would be curious to see what I could work out. Any suggestions on how to contact the band or 4ad are needed. Thanks for enduring my lengthy post Travis ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 00:56:54 +0200 From: Erik Soderstrom Subject: Re: Random Thoughts > As a relatively new subscriber to the list (only recent on the internet), I > am under the impression from a recent post that The Verve's Urban Hymns was > not received well by list members. I don't intend to bring up past > discussions but would appreciate a general consensus from someone. > Although I find the album to be their best yet, it is obviously a > different style. I personally rate "A Storm In Heaven" as their best, with "Urban Hymns" as a close second. I never really enjoyed "A Northern Soul", but I'm not sure why as it really is a good one. But it doesn't compare to the other two (IMO). > Then again, if I could only own one release it would be the Verve EP. > "Gravity Grave"-my vote for best bassline ever. Definitely. It's my all time favourite Verve song. Especially the Glastonbury live version. I would have died if I had been there. ;) They did play it at the Hultsfred festival 1994. As soon as it started I immediately and completely forgot to take photos. Not a single one during the whole song. That is powerful. >My point? Are there any music videos off of Ask Me Tomorrow? >"Love Songs," possibly? Yes, they did one for "Love Songs on the Radio" - there's a description in the "discography" if you're interested at: http://www.lysator.liu.se/~chief/mojave3.html > Also, as a filmmaker living in Arizona, USA, I would love to pursue the > opportunity of producing a music video to a song off the new album (with > 4ad's money or my own). I would be curious to see what I could work out. > Any suggestions on how to contact the band or 4ad are needed. Rachel reads this list (and she does print out and show stuff to Neil as well as far as I know - hi Rachel & Neil! ;)) so she'll probably spot this as well. I don't want to post her personal e-mail address on a mailing list (or on a web page), but e-mail me in private and it shouldn't be a problem. //Erik ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 23:37:56 PDT From: "Matthew Falconer" Subject: Re: davebp@postmaster.co.uk is a... (no slowdive content) Hi peeps I was a little concerned at some of the attitude going on in this list over something as SIMPLE as buying a friggin' Slowdive EP. Let's look at a few facts, shall we??? Slowdive - Outside your room EP = 7 + 3 for postage which is a total of 10 Now lets convert this into a few currencies, shall we??? OK, 7 is equivalent to EXACTLY $11.67 in US currency. And what about postage?? Let's take a look, then, shall we??? Well, it turns out that 3 that the said davebp@postmaster.co.uk was asking for is EXACTLY 5.0014 (or, rounded off, $5). So, that comes to a total of $16.67 in US currency. Quite a reasonable price for a Slowdive EP considering what some people charge for them. I don't know what it would cost to buy sterling banknotes in the US but I'll assume that it wouldn't be more than an extra $4 or $5 to do this. So, all up, you'd pay about $20 for the EP. How does that sound??? Not too good? Oh, OK, find it cheaper elsewhere, then!! (which could be done, true, but as time goes by, Slowdive EP's outside the UK just become harder and harder to get, so if you were going to get them outside of the UK you'd be paying higher prices anyway!!!!). I look at it this way: as I live in Sydney, Australia, I have to pay higher prices than the lot of you because our currency is so weak at the moment. So converting Australian $$$ into any other currency can be an expensive exercize, sometimes. To buy that Slowdive EP, it would cost me about $21 - $22 Australian (because it isn't too expensive to buy foreign banknotes here - so I would assume that my estimate for what it would cost in US $$$ would proably be lower). Not too bad considering Slowdive EP's were generally around $15 - $17 Australian dollars to import over here when they were in print and it was possible to order them from record shops. Manners???? Well, davebp@postmaster.co.uk did say... ah, fuck it: to save an argument, I'll just quote him: Dave: > can you send me a ten pound (stirling) note? yes or no? > first person who sez yes and agrees to send it. and gets the cd... > simple. It took me about 2 seconds to understand what he was saying when he said this. There is a principle involved here: first come, first serve. Just think: if someone offers a cheap Slowdive EP over the 'net, how many mails do you think they'd get with offers for it??? (rhetorical question). It's a little bloody hard to promise it to anyone if he's going to get 1000000000 e-mails from people wanting him to send it to them. Or, even worse, he could have auctioned it: didn't someone on this list just pay $30 for the same EP???? Dave seems to be offering you a bit of a bargain, methinks. (you'd be paying less than two thirds of this cost if you asked Dave very nicely (important bit!!!! - as Erik said: amnners go a LONG way!!!) to buy it for you. What's so bad about that???) > I don't really want to get into this, but I agree - that's one helluva > attitude problem there. But who knows, maybe he lost his job the same > day, his car was stolen and his life savings were gone? All those > things in a day would do the trick for me... Maybe you're just happy to pay fucking up-the-wall prices for CD's that, at the end of the day, just aren't worth that much money. $50 my ass... > And, a simple "Sorry, but $10 doesn't cover it. 10 is about US $13.00 > and the freight will probably be more like $5 to the US" reply is a lot > better than telling someone to go blow a flagpole. I never heard him say anything about "going and blowing a flagpole"??? Did he??? where's the mail he sent??? Anyways, I was thinking about going down to one of the MANY foreign exhange places here in Australia and getting some sterling and buying the CD for myself. If I sent over 10 sterling I'm sure Dave would be gracious enough to do as he asked. I don't know who the hell he is (like anyone you buy CD's off over the 'net, really) but it sounds like a good enough offer to me! Then what I'd do is double the price up to about $40 - $50 and make some cash on it!!! Seems there are plenty of people around the place willing to pay that... Never say that I didn't tell you all not to look a gift horse in the mouth... Cheerio!!! Matthew ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 11:37:31 +0100 From: davebp@postmaster.co.uk Subject: read this erik | > fourthly, i had a shitload of replies from people assuming that they were | > the first person and thus the cd was theirs. so i told EVERYONE. the first | > person to sort it so that they can send me ten pounds cash gets the cd. | > simple. | | You can use the list to say that "hey all who sent me mail about the | Slowdive thingie - it's already gone" which would have saved you the | trouble of replying to all the e-mails but one - ie. the first who | mailed you about it. no i couldn't. it wasnt already gone. because nobody could actually get their head around the concept that i wanted 10 cash. no matter how many times i said it nicely, people didnt get the hint. so i just lost it. well, i didnt really loose it. i didnt directly abuse her did i? i just told her in plain english to get her shit together and decide what she wanted to do or she was gonna miss the cd. remember i was doing this as a favour remember. i am very very busy here. i dont have time to keep mailing people over and over again saying the same thing over and over again. in the end i said yes to the first person that said: "yes i can send you 10 CASH". and that wasnt her. sour grapes methinks... | And, a simple "Sorry, but $10 doesn't cover it. 10 is about US $13.00 | and the freight will probably be more like $5 to the US" reply is a lot | better than telling someone to go blow a flagpole. i want to know what gives her the right to send a PRIVATE message to the mailing list??? i wouldnt be so mad if she hadn't have edited the original number of mails. it made it look like i said that on like the second mail or something. but their were heaps of other mails between her and i which she did omit... all saying pretty much the samething over and over again. "10 cash"... "$10 amercan?"... "10 cash"... "an american money order?"... "10 cash"... "10 IMO- that'll cost me too much" "well just send 10 cash then- which was the jist of the last message" likewise, i am not a business selling stuff. i shouldnt have to wait on every whim and desire of someone that wants to buy the cd. they send me 10 cash and i send the cd. this is getting repetitive isnt it? now you're getting what i had to endure. next time when i offer (if i offer to do this again- which i doubt) i will say in the message 10 cash and when i say it i mean it.... maybe i came across as rude... but she just came across as plain stupid. end of story. | But who am I to tell anyone about manners, right? exactly. the message wasnt to you. it was a private message sent to someone else who posted it (i believe wrongly to the mailing list). i have never abused you. i have never done wrong by you. same as you have never done wrong by me. so i dont believe that you should be judging me on the edited mail of someone else. also, you dont come where i come from so you dont understand the language i am using. where i come from pissfart is not abusive. it is not rude. it is simply a term that everyone uses to describe somone that cannot decide either was. the moral is: dont go off half cocked... read a bit about the theories behind deconstructionism and understand why we differ before you critise me and judge me for using language which means something different to you as to what it does to me. shitload means a lot. it is not a swear word... dave ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 11:48:23 +0100 From: davebp@postmaster.co.uk Subject: Re: davebp@postmaster.co.uk is a nice guy... hi, matthew falconer wrote: | I look at it this way: as I live in Sydney, Australia, you're from sydney? cool. i come from melbourne orgiinally, but now im stuck in england for a while. i cant wait to go home. this is such a shit country. sure the music is good and you can find any cd or record you want, but it is a thrid world nation. but then thats why i offered the cd. when i was in australia i always hoped that someone would find me stuff in the uk, but nope... so i figured i'd offer it for some people on the list that i thought would appreciate it... hmmmm. sorry, the eps taken otherwise i would have sold it to you... are you after any other slowdive? i can have a look around here... dave ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 13:03:00 +0100 From: davebp@postmaster.co.uk Subject: Was Random Thoughts- is now opinions in my opinion, there is no good or bad songwriting. just different. some people prefer puff daddy, some people prefer metallica, some people prefer slowdive, some people prefer classical, some people prefer jazz... etc... it doesnt make anything BETTER than something else. just DIFFERENT. what means a lot to some people may not mean anything to anyone else. everyone here will agree that slowdive is awesome. but ask the people on the puff daddy mailing list what they think about slowdive. i reckon you will get a pretty different response. ask the people on the classical music mailing list what they think of sepultura and they will probably hold them in considerably less regard than the people on the sepultura mailing list. its all very easy to say something like: "oh but they havent learnt to appreciate good music." or some other cliche that gets bandied around. but it remains a fact that every person interprets EVERYTHING in uniquely different ways... but then what do i know? i'm just a rude asshole. right, box and whiskers chick? ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 14:09:07 +0200 From: Erik Soderstrom Subject: Re: davebp@postmaster.co.uk is a... (no slowdive content) > I was a little concerned at some of the attitude going on in this list > over something as SIMPLE as buying a friggin' Slowdive EP. Yeah, and your own attitude is... what? Pleasant, calm and reasonable? > Manners???? Well, davebp@postmaster.co.uk did say... ah, fuck it: to > save an argument, I'll just quote him: [snip] > Maybe you're just happy to pay fucking up-the-wall prices for CD's that, > at the end of the day, just aren't worth that much money. $50 my ass... Just forget it. You have a right to act in any way you choose, and that's your business. I was just pointing out that simple manners go a long way - which apparently is pointless to say. I don't want FUCK all over the Avalyn list. Okay? //Erik ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 08:31:38 +0000 From: "wade@tapehouse.com" Subject: Re: pale saints and emotive force What are the hard to find pale saints albums e.p.s? I found some yesterday at a NY record store, and I wanted some more info. before I purchased them. wade ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 16:34:10 +0300 From: Siim Kalder Subject: Re: pale saints and emotive force At 12:49 29.04.98 -0400, michael wrote: > Do you feel that Spoonfed Hybrid is Masters' best work?? Well, I haven't had the chance to listen to Spoonfed Hybrid that much (meaning I haven't had the chance to listen to it repeatedly over a lengthy period of about half a year at least), but I definately find it an extraordinary piece. I have always considered SH to be more like a project or an experiment (correct me if I'm wrong) and that of course gives it the right to be not so consistent as for example In Ribbons of Pale Saints is IMO (the darn acronym starts to get on my nerves, who elses opinion can you express here anyway??). Despite that there are several songs that can "blow me away" too, sorry, but I can't recall the names. And as far as _interesting_ goes, SH can easily compete with Pale Saints. As to an answer for the question - no, I personally don't feel it to be Masters' best work. It doesn't have the power of Saints or the completeness, at least for the most part. Greetings, Siim K. ___________ siimk@ut.ee ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 10:37:16 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Gilham Subject: Re: Was Random Thoughts- is now opinions On Thu, 30 Apr 1998 davebp@postmaster.co.uk wrote: > in my opinion, there is no good or bad songwriting. just different. some > people Most of what Mr. Dave writes here makes sense except for the above ... NO bad songwriting?? Surely there have been artists sometime in history which have put out records w/ poor songwriting ;-) ? I could cite examples but this isn't necessary ... that's all, cheers, --Michael ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 10:16:17 +0000 From: "wade@tapehouse.com" Subject: MESSAGE TO SIIM KALDER SORRY TO POST TO THE LIST, BUT SIIM KALDER, PLEASE E-MAIL WADE, I LOST YOUR ADDRESS. WADE ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 11:35:21 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Gilham Subject: Pale Saints EPs On Thu, 30 Apr 1998, wade@tapehouse.com wrote: > What are the hard to find pale saints albums e.p.s? > > I found some yesterday at a NY record store, and I wanted some more > info. before I purchased them. Nowadays, I'd have to say all the records would be hard to find in North America 'cause they're all out of print(I think?) ... Of the EPs, probably HALF-LIFE, FLESH BALLOON, BARGING INTO THE PRESENCE OF GOD, and THROWING BACK THE APPLE would be the hardest to find - but, then, that's almost the whole lot there ;-) ... If they had Half-Life: I'd definitely recommend picking it up as the title track is really good! ...Plus the record's cool 'cause it has this unlisted 'hidden' track between the last song on side 2 and the run-off groove ... Of course the song is just utter Masters' eclecticism ... but, it's still sorta neat ... best to all, Michael ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 11:41:15 -0400 (EDT) From: butterfly mcqueen Subject: Re: Was Random Thoughts- is now opinions > in my opinion, there is no good or bad songwriting. just different. come on! i mean, of course judging songwriting is ultimately subjective, being a matter of taste. but that doesn't mean that within a certain genre/style/whatever some people clearly do it better than others. if all rock did was 1-4-5's then i'd definitely go crazy. ya know? there's *some* common ground, more or less. ; e.e. ------------------------------ End of Avalyn Digest Vol.98 #66 ********************************
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