From cnishida@netcom.com Wed Oct 18 09:56:51 1995 Received: from netcom17.netcom.com by soyokaze.biosci.ohio-state.edu (8.6.10/1.950110) id JAA03667; Wed, 18 Oct 1995 09:56:49 -0400 Received: by netcom17.netcom.com (8.6.12/Netcom) id GAA08911; Wed, 18 Oct 1995 06:53:11 -0700 Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 06:53:10 -0700 (PDT) From: "Craig H. Nishida" Subject: Re: [MB-MANGA] 1.1 To: MB-trans ML Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Lots of mail in my queue but I just HAD to catch up on sleep yesterday. I'll squeeze this post in before work... On Tue, 17 Oct 1995, Yutaka writes: > I have a feeling this is Miki-chan's line, talking about Yuu. > > Miki: > Even though it's a family > breakup crisis, he's > calm... > > This isn't a compliment for Yuu by Miki. It's more of a "What's this > guy thinking at an important time like this?" sort of comment. Oh. Okay. I'll tweak it to "you" since Miki is probably addressing Yuu directly... ===> 20-2 [Rumi looks off-panel at the two children.] Miki: [off] Even though it's a family KATEI HOUKAI no KIKI da tte breakup crisis, you're home/family collapse 's crisis is (quote) calm... no ni HEIZEN to shichatte even-tho be-cool/calm-(finality)-(and) What kind of nerves do you do-- yu-- SHINKEI shite n no?! have?! what-kind-of-nerves doing/making Craig From cnishida@netcom.com Wed Oct 18 21:33:31 1995 Received: from netcom11.netcom.com by soyokaze.biosci.ohio-state.edu (8.6.10/1.950110) id VAA05087; Wed, 18 Oct 1995 21:33:29 -0400 Received: by netcom11.netcom.com (8.6.12/Netcom) id SAA16840; Wed, 18 Oct 1995 18:21:37 -0700 Date: Wed, 18 Oct 1995 18:21:36 -0700 (PDT) From: "Craig H. Nishida" Subject: Re: [MB-MANGA] 1.1 (3/4) To: MB-trans ML Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Mon, 16 Oct 1995, Paul writes: P> On Tue, 17 Oct 1995, Yutaka writes: Y> On Wed, 18 Oct 1995, Daniel writes: D> On Wed, 18 Oct 1995, Paul writes: P> 22-5 Jin/Youji/Rumi/Chiyako: We're... WATASHI-TACHI Renting a large house and HIROi IE o KArite 6-NIN de the six of us are going spacious-home (O) rent-(and) by-6-people to live together. ISSHO ni SUmou to OMOtte-ru no together are-going-to-live P> > I'd prefer it as "going to V". That is, the = "thinking P> > of V'ing" = "intending to V" = "going to V". P> P> I still think it should be thinking of blah, than going to blah. admittedly, P> they've de-facto decided already, but it's not totally set in stone, so to P> speak. I dunno...omou is to think, and I just think it otta be there. make P> ita s strong as you want, but leave it in there. Well, everyone else I ask and every book I consult says that that's what means--all those choices above. Then, to me, following Rumi's line, and taking into account that these are the Parents (and parents would more likely talk in a definitive sorta way--though, granted, these are Miki's and Yuu's flaky parents) and then the followup line implies it's a done deal: Rumi: ...you don't have to worry about anything. Jin/Youji/Rumi/Chiyako: We're... Renting a large house and the six of us are going to live together. Rumi: In other words, the marriages will change, but the parent and child relationships won't. I'm really leaning strongly towards "going to". --------------------------------------------------- 23-1 Rumi: In other words, the tsumari FUUFU KANKEI wa marriages will change, in-other-words married-couple relations (T) but the parent and child relationships won't. HENKA suru kedo change but OYAKO KANKEI wa KAwaranai no parent-and-child relations (T) not-change You should think of your IMA made DOOri no KUmiAwase o parents as being the ones just-as-till-now (nom) pairing (O) you've had up to now. RYOUSHIN to OMOtte-kurereba ii wake parents if-think-that okay reason P> > P> ii wake implies 'so it would be ok [for you] if you thought of your P> > P> parents as being... P> > I substituted in "should" for "okay if". I guess "can" also works? P> P> Sorta. Should implies kinda 'instructions' on how Miki is now supposed P> to think about this. Rumi is more trying to smooth things over by saying P> "See, it'd be ok, if you just pretended that things were still like before" Okay, I see that, but I also still prefer the "should" or "can". --------------------------------------------------- P> > = "already"? I could never find a solid definition for P> P> already is as close as I can think of it. P> I'd take out the ',' after because Good idea. Y> Maybe "already ... as it is"? That sounds good. ===> 34-1 Rumi: Because it's already a datte tada de sae FUKUZATSU na complicated household as because already complicated it is, but if on top of that, you and he also... KATEI na no ni home/family is even-though kono UE anta-tachi mo... above-this you-(and-assoc) too --------------------------------------------------- Y> I think "yokei" here isn't "needless", but "excessive", as in "even Y> more". So "...we'd probably have even more confusion/chaos in the Y> household"? P> P> Sure, I'd go with that. excessive. ===> 34-1 If such a thing should nante koto ni nattara yokei happen, we'd probably have if-become-such-a-thing excessive even more confusion in the ________ household. IE no NAKA gotagota suru desho within-home possibly-have-confusion/trouble --------------------------------------------------- P> > P> > 36-3 P> > P> > Meiko: P> > P> > But still, you're cheerful. sore ni shicha AKArui ja nai P> > P> > but/still bright/cheerful P> > Eee. I think I prefer the "but still" just for the way the lines flow. P> > negative pov. The "But still..."] P> P> Heh...yah, given-the-circumstace is pretty long :) butstll works Y> How about " A little sparse, Yutaka, but I like it. Very minimalist. ^_^ [??? Hey. What's going on here? Yagami got your tongue?] Y> > D> just wondering, how does "ja nai" work here? isn't "ja nai" used Y> > D> for the present negative? Y> > Y> > As I learned early on, not always. Ask Paul or Yutaka or someone else Y> > for more details. [I suppose here, Meiko is looking at things in a Y> > negative pov. The "But still..."] Y> Y> I think it's just a rhetorical question. Almost the exact same thing as Y> "Aren't you looking cheerful (despite all this)." In that, "aren't" is Y> negative, although the sentence isn't really negative. Y> Y> BTW, that wasn't a suggestion, but feel free to build on it if you like Y> it ^_^; I suppose. I just never liked doing that way, so I'm even less likely to do a mere as neg-rhet. Just me, I guess. --------------------------------------------------- P> > P> > 37-4 P> > P> > Miki: P> > P> > Nobody told me anything!! sonna no KIite-nai_!! P> > P> > like-that (nom) not-heard P> > P> i hadn't heard anythign [like that/about it] P> > That was my first line, but I tweaked it to make it flow better with P> > the other lines. P> P> The two have a slightly different spin tho. The first sounds like she P> expects to be told, whereas 'heard anything' could imply anything, like P> overhearing, eavesdropping, being told directly, etc etc. Well, partly too, that this is how I'd say it. I agree it's flipped from active to passive tense. Y> It's not completely literal, but I think it's the best translation. P> P> Ok. --------------------------------------------------- P> > P> > 38-5 P> > P> > Miki: P> > P> > Yokohama! Isn't that a YOKOHAMA nante ne-- P> > P> > distance you can commute?! the-likes-of (rhet) P> > P> > P> > P> > KAYOeru KYORI desho_ P> > P> > can-go-back-and-forth distance poss-be P> > P> > P> > P> > So go commute! ja omae KAYOe P> > P> who says this last bit? P> > I see where you're coming from, though. It would make sense for Yuu P> > to be slinging it back at her, "Then, you commute." P> P> Basically, yah. "omae" isn't exactly girl-speak, altho they certainly use it Y> I'm 99% sure it's Yuu saying this. Miki-chan wouldn't use a word like Y> "omae" ^_-. P> P> that's my key thing Okay, okay. Now that you guys point that out... ===> 38-5 Miki: Yokohama! Isn't that a YOKOHAMA nante ne-- distance you can commute?! the-likes-of (rhet) KAYOeru KYORI desho_ can-go-back-and-forth distance poss-be Yuu: Then, you commute! ja omae KAYOe --------------------------------------------------- Y> > Meiko: Y> > On his first day of TENNYUU SHONICHI de sukkari Y> > transferring, he's quite the transfer on-first-day quite/completely Y> > schoolgirls' idol, isn't he. ______ Y> > JOSEITO no aidoru ne Y> > schoolgirls 's idol (rhet) Y> Y> This sounds quite awkward, IMHO. It won't be literal, but how about Y> "It's only his first day here, and already he's the schoolgirls' idol." P> P> first day of transferring is a bit wierd, i'd agree. P> [on] the day of his transfer? Keep the "first" or keep the "transfer" huh? ^_^ Okay, ===> 40-2 Meiko: It's the day he transferred, TENNYUU SHONICHI de sukkari and already he's quite the transfer first-day is-(and) quite schoolgirls' idol, hm. ______ JOSEITO no aidoru ne schoolgirls 's idol (rhet) --------------------------------------------------- Y> > 42-5 Y> > P> > Yuu: Y> > P> > Then, they're ready to jaa KOKUHAKU wa kore kara Y> > P> > confess their feelings now? then confession (T) now Y> > P> > Y> > P> > tte wake ka Y> > P> > (quote) reason (?) Y> > P> Y> > P> so their confessions come after this Y> > Y> > Hmm. The current line in the script is: Y> > Y> > Then, they still haven't confessed their feelings? Y> > Y> > But how about: Y> > Y> > Then, they're going to confess their feelings now? P> THe 'kore kara' to me, doesn't imply 'now'. It just means 'sometime afte P> rthis point in time" or just plain "they havent' done it yet, and they P> might someday". Y> I think "kore kara" is more closer to "in the future (sometime)", so I Y> think the current line fits better. D> D> > I looked up "kore kara" in the dictionary and it gives me these D> > definitions... D> > 1) from now on D> > 2) after this D> > 3) in future D> > D> > I kinda liked the first one...and so, how about saying the line like this? D> > D> > Then, they're going to confess their feelings from now on? P> P> from-now-on makes it sound like an ever lasting process. "You're goig to P> be good from now on" type of thing. It's a 'one shot' event, where you P> confess, and that's that. from-now-on just doesn't work for me. OK, then I'll just keep it as "Then, they still haven't confessed their feelings?" --------------------------------------------------- Craig