From cnishida@netcom.com Sat Sep 30 02:17:05 1995 Received: from netcom20.netcom.com by soyokaze.biosci.ohio-state.edu (8.6.10/1.950110) id CAA11409; Sat, 30 Sep 1995 02:17:03 -0400 Received: by netcom20.netcom.com (8.6.12/Netcom) id XAA15122; Fri, 29 Sep 1995 23:14:30 -0700 Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 23:14:29 -0700 (PDT) From: "Craig H. Nishida" Subject: Re: [MB-MANGA] 1.1 (1/4) To: MB-trans ML Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Fri, 29 Sep 1995, Paul writes: P> On Fri, 29 Sep 1995, Harold writes: H> On Fri, 29 Sep 1995, Thomas writes: T> On Fri, 29 Sep 1995, Akira writes: A> On Fri, 29 Sep 1995, Steve writes: S> On Fri, 29 Sep 1995, Will writes: W> On Fri, 29 Sep 1995, Gary writes: G> P> > H> trans list, don't know much Japanese (haven't had time to formally P> > Well, neither have I, but that hasn't stopped me from trying! ^_^ P> P> That's what's so scary :) :) I guess, since you're the only one to have waded thru ~3,300 pages of my draft scripts, that you'd be the one to know, Paul! ^_^ P> > The first 11 pages of this chapter... P> P> So these are bigger, huh. So how many pages are there, compard to a P> KOR-chapter...total, I mean. I guess they average around 38 pages a chapter (5 chapters per ~190 page volume). KOR chapters usually ran at 19 or 21 pages a chapter. G> whenever there is a "!?" in the text, you render it as "?!" G> this occurs on: G> p4 #1 G> p9 #1 G> p15 #3 G> p20 #2 G> i don't think that this affects the translation, however ^_^ You noticed! You're pretty sharp, Gary! I bet you're in the Yagami Fan Club! ^_^ Since I'm accustomed to the English way, namely "?!" I automatically switch the Japanese way around. It's like a reflex. --------------------------------------------------- P> but, we want...or we'd like ===> 3-2 Jin: [off] Please don't be surprised... ODOROkanai de But we'd like you to KIite hoshii n da kedo listen... listen want (explan) but --------------------------------------------------- H> H> 3-2 H> H> Jin: [off] H> H> H> H> How do you know it's Jin? H> H> In such cases I either consult the anime, or I just roll the dice. H> H> I'd prefer not reading anything into the manga that's not clearly H> there (a pet peave with most dubbed anime is the extra dialog they H> tend to throw in).... There's no extra dialog in this case. H> You can always let the reader try to figure it out.... The alternative is to put "voice: [off]" or "Rumi or Jin: [off]". Forget that! Since Jin and Rumi say the exact same lines in the anime, why not just go with the fact that Rumi led off and Jin finished? It's not like it affects the story any. --------------------------------------------------- H> 3-3 H> [Miki's pov (i.e., point-of-view) of her smiling, beaming parents, who sit H> side-by-side.] H> H> I prefer "point of view (POV)" After doing "pov" over 156 chapters of KOR, I'm not gonna change now. This is just the first and only definition the reader will see anyway. --------------------------------------------------- P> > 3-4 P> > narration: P> > One day, my parents suddenly ----aru HI TOTSUZEN no RYOUSHIN no P> > declared their divorce... one-day sudden/unexpected parents 's P> > P> > RIKON SENGEN P> > divorce declaration P> P> If I didn't know better, I'd say this was Kyo :) Arg! Don't go comparing Miki to that ditz Kyousuke. ^_^ I mean, that guy took 155 chapters to get a clue. Hikaru-chan should have slapped him till his head rolled off. At least (you'll find) that Miki grows up and develops during the storyline. I think most of them mature. P> ANyway, this is a bit P> tough, cause this whole narration-sequence goes on for hte next few. P> You strung it out pretty good tho. A bit literal, but [one day] my P> parents' sudden divorce declaration...? Well, I agree that there's no true verb here cause this is just the front part of "curtain rising" part... P> > narration: P> > With that... sore ga P> > P> > narration: P> > ...the curtain rose on my atashi no JUNAN no HIBI no P> > daily sufferings. my-suffering 's daily/everyday P> > P> > MAKU Ake datta---- P> > curtain rise was P> P> that was the? I dunno..that doesn't go well (at all) w/the curtain-phrase. So literally it's like: One day, my parents' sudden declaration of their divorce... That... ...was the curtain rising on my daily sufferings. But what's there now is: One day, my parents suddenly declared their divorce... With that... ...the curtain rose on my daily sufferings. Not dead-on literal, but I think we better go with the lines as they are. H> I just don't like "daily sufferings." Daily doesn't really match with H> sufferings. Hmmmm; "constant sufferings" ??? I dunno. I'd say it as "daily sufferings". --------------------------------------------------- 5--TITLE PAGE [Miki and Yuu stand back-to-back. Yuu wears a smile. Miki folds her arms and frowns slightly, looking off to her right.] A> > H> A> > H> More than a slight frown, I'd say; much more and it would be a glare. A> > A> > I dunno. Miki's glares tend to be pretty obvious. She's pretty A> > expressive. Here, she just looks a bit unhappy (to me). A> A> Rgh! The local bookstore was sold out of MB! ...from what you're A> describing, though, I'd guess you'd be attempting to describe A> what a melancholy expression looks like. No. This is definitely not melancholy. A> > Now, later, when Miki keeps looking over her shoulder at us, wearing a A> > look that's sorta despair, sorta "see what I have to put up with?" I'm A> > stuck when it comes to describing that succinctly. A> > There *must* be a word to describe that look! A> A> Hmm... a sort of pained look, then? More of an "oh brother" sorta look. "Good grief" ? --------------------------------------------------- P> > 7-2 P> > Meiko: P> > Smiling and saying they're nikkori WARAtte "RIKON shiyou P> > "going to get a divorce?" beaming-a-smile-(and) P> > P> > to OMOu no"? P> P> omou is think, so ..."[we're] thinking of divrocing/getting-a-divorce" I was taught that is either "going to V" or "thinking of V'ing" or "intending to V". Since Rumi and Jin have already decided to divorce (see later in the chapter), I went with the "going to V". --------------------------------------------------- 7-3 P> > Miki FX: P> > paku paku P> P> Hmm...she reminds me of... What? Kurumi? --------------------------------------------------- 7-4 Miki: _________ I thought it was sorta totteoki no ti--setto DAshite-kite strange since they brought treasured tea-set come-take-out-(and) out the special tea set, saying let's have tea. o-CHA ni shimashou nante Iu kara by-tea shall-do say-that that's-why nankka HEN da na to wa OMOtta n da somewhat strange is thought-that (explan) P> P> [Because/since they] Bringing out the[ir] treasured/special tea-set, [and P> saying] let's have some tea...[so] I thought something/it was sorta strange... Well, yes. I just flipped the 2 parts of the sentence around. "I thought it was sorta strange since X" whereas you like "Since X, I thought it was sorta strange." This is just the way *I* would say it. --------------------------------------------------- P> this masaka isn't 'impossible' masaka in reference to conversation. It's P> more the unbelivability-facotr of the topic. Of all things, or who woud P> have ever thought it would be, or I never thought it would be a talk P> like/about that ===> 7-4 But what an unbelievable da kedo masaka anna HANASHI conversation... but impossible that-kind-of-talk da nante~~~~ is the-likes-of --------------------------------------------------- P> katta-ja-nai...past tense? You know, at first glance I thought it should be present-tense in English, but it's true that Meiko can assume that they no longer get along well. ===> 7-4 Meiko: But, why? demo doushite? Your parents got along MIKI n toko no go-RYOUSHIN suggoku awfully well, Miki. 's case 's parents awfully NAKA YOkatta ja nai got-along-well --------------------------------------------------- P> not just 'left you behind'...that almost sounds like it was planned that P> way. hoppotte is more like 'tossed away' or almost 'forgotten'. Like neglect? ===> 7-4 As I recall, not long ago tashika konaida mo MIKI o they neglected you, and as-I-recall not-long-ago too (O) went off together on a _____ trip to Hawaii, and... hoppotte 2-RI de hawai Itchatta toss- by-2-people went-to-Hawaii- aside-(and) (finality) to ka... among-other-things --------------------------------------------------- P> > 8-1 P> > That's what started this... ...are ga GEN'IN na n da... P> > that (S) the-cause is (explan) P> P> that's the reason? maybe not Mmm, I prefer the line as-is. --------------------------------------------------- P> same hawaii tour Either. ===> 8-3 Rumi: _____ ______ A married couple that was hawai RYOKOU de ONAji tsua-- datta on the same Hawaii tour. on-Hawaii-trip same-tour was go-FUUFU na no (hon)-married-couple is (nom) --------------------------------------------------- 8-3 Jin: During our activities issho ni KOUDOU shite-ru uchi ni together, Mama fell in love together are-doing-activities within P> > "As we spent time with each other," ? P> P> yah...something about 'koudou' would be good tho. Well, tossing in a "...time doing things with each other..." makes it clunky. I still don't see the problem with "During our activities together..." --------------------------------------------------- 8-5 Jin: And after the four of us de 4-NIN de iroiro HANAshiAtta discussed it at length, we with-4-people various discussed-(with) decided to exchange partners __________ and remarry. KEKKA pa--tona-- o KOUKAN shite result/outcome partner (O) exchange-(and) SAIKON shiyou tte koto ni natta shall-marry-again (quote) had-been-decided n da yo (explan) P> P> toss in the kekka part somehow? the hanashiatta-kekka might be discussion P> resulted, or as a result of our discussion? iffy. That's why I did it as "...after discussed it..." If it's done as "...a result of our discussion..." then the <4-nin de> is reduced to "our". --------------------------------------------------- P> > 9-2 P> kitta koto nai - is never heard of such a absurd thing. Done. --------------------------------------------------- 9-2 H> You mean, is it "beads of sweat" or "drops of sweat"? I'd choose H> "beads." H> H> Beads are round, drops are teardrop shaped.... A> If I imagine (sigh... six full weeks until I get the books...) this A> correctly it's a drop -- like the common depiction of a raindrop, right? A> I've always considered beads to be, well, beady -- spherical/circular. A> So, if it's not a circle, I vote for sweat drop, or preferably "drop of A> sweat"... It's not how they look that drove my decision. It's that when something occurs to make you break out in a sweat, the sweat beads on your forehead. Sweat *drops* make me think of exertion. --------------------------------------------------- P> thre isn't much ===> 9-2 Jin: [off] Well, maybe there isn't maa anmari ZENREI wa nai ka mo na much precedent. well too-(much) unprecedented maybe --------------------------------------------------- P> In colloquail American_Valley_Girl_Speak (tm)< I'd toss a "like" in that P> "It isn't like the love has disappeared between us" or "it isn't as if the" P> but it just dosen't quite work. Sounds good. P> I dunno about sibling-affection tho. P> I think 'family love' or a 'husband-wife love'? I don't think that last one'll work. In context, Rumi is commenting that they're divorcing because the love they found is a romantic love, whereas what Rumi/Jin have is more a brotherly love. ===> 9-3 Rumi: It isn't like the love WATASHI-tachi no AIDA ni AIJOU ga naku has disappeared between us. between-us loveless natta wake ja nai no yo became reason is-not We still love each other. IMA demo o-TAGAi DAISUki na no still each-other love But it's not a romantic demo sore wa mou REN'AI ja nakutte love anymore. It's more but that (T) anymore love is-not a sibling affection, right? KAZOKU AI na no yo ne---- family love is (nom) (rhet) --------------------------------------------------- G> i asked Tatsuya (who is visiting here from Japan) What's his last name? I can credit him in the final script. G> and he said that the G> "nori" is simply a form of "noru": step onto, mount. in this sense, it G> is something like "going along with the flow", "riding [eg: a wave of G> popularity]", "swimming with the tide",... that sort of thing. G> G> pitiful suggestion: G> From the start, even before we got married, we knew we were becoming G> more like close friends rather than lovers. With a slight tweak: ===> 9-3 Jin: From the start, even before ore-tachi MOTOMOTO KEKKON MAE mo we got married, we went we from-the- before-marriage too along, knowing that we were beginning more close friends than lovers... KOIBITO tte iu yori lovers more...rather-than... ____ SHIN'YUU tte nori datta close-friend (quote) ride was shi naa and-besides (rhet) --------------------------------------------------- P> This is one sentence. Yup. P> Even tho the passions might-be/are/may-have P> gone/dispapeared...to be on good terms with each other and live together P> [while] joined by a quiet and gentle love....' P> P> Ok, shorten it now :) Hai, sensei! ^_^ ===> 9-4 Miki: Wh-what are you saying? na...NANI yutte n no Even though the passions JOUNETSU wa naku natte-mo are gone, being on friendly passionate (T) isn't-there even-tho-turn-into terms with each other, living together joined by ODAyaka na AIJOU de MUSUbareta a quiet and gentle love... by-a-quiet-(gentle)-love were-joined mama NAKA YOku yatte-ku no ga as-it-is go-and-be-on-good-terms (nom) (S) Isn't that how married FUUFU tte mon desho-- ga!! couples are?!! a-married-couple (T) reason poss-be but --------------------------------------------------- 10-1 P> [since] we both found someone to fall in love with at the same time, P> [so] there' sno problem P> not "found out the other fell in love". Done. --------------------------------------------------- P> that's true, [huh...] ===> 10-1 Rumi: [off] That's true, isn't it. sou yo ne-- --------------------------------------------------- A> Offhand, how about "a case of adultery"? Either way for me. A> > H> Do you think mazui might have a stronger shading than "messy" here? A> > H> A> > H> Ugly??? The eqv. line in the anime was rendered as "That's so, and A> > H> the idea of adultery is so unpleasant." A> > A> > I pass on this one. Paul? Yutaka? Anyone else? A> A> All I can think of is "undesirable". How 'bout it? Well, that's what it *means*, but I don't think I'd *say* it that way. I guess "ugly" is better after all. ===> 10-1 Rumi: [off] That's true, isn't it. sou yo ne-- If it had been one-sided, KATAHOU dake dattara then having it turn into one-sided if-it-is a case of adultery or immorality would have been UWAKI toka FURIN te ugly... unfaithful or immoral (quote) koto ni natte mazui kedo turning-out-to-be unwise but --------------------------------------------------- P> This works...it's just kinda turned around. I can't think of a way to P> put it as "after having met the matsura's..." or something. the two events P> meeting, and beating hearts, in the above kinda sound diconnected. Well, "having met the Matsuuras, we wanted to..." links them. Maybe too much? H> H> "Beating hearts" loses something.... H> H> I thought it better than "pitter patter"... "Throbbing hearts" perhaps? H> H> Ge! H> H> This is too literal; how about "passion"? For ??? That's so... So *vanilla*! ^_^ A> Throbbing hearts gives me an image of a heart attack... A> You're looking for something like trepidation, to go with hearts, right?\ I think maybe more like the pounding heart of someone deep in love. A> Fluttering hearts, perhaps? "we wanted to cherish the feeling of our A> hearts fluttering, which we hadn't felt in a long while." or some A> praphrase thereof? W> I'm uncomfortable with what to me feels like turning the sentence W> syntax and "feeling" around - ie, W> W> We met the Matsuuras and felt our hearts (passions?) move (stir?) W> in a way that they hadn't in a long time. W> We want to cherish this feeling. W> W> seems to me like a perhaps more faithful arrangement of the thoughts. W> I'm not too happy with moving the "want to cherish" into a W> second sentence though. The suggestion up above sorta works this way, too. W> Ok - I've said my bit, you can shoot me now. ^_^ Well, if we did that *ALL* the time on these trans MLs, we'd soon run out of targets. How about we shoot you now, then wait for you to heal (about 3 months?) then shoot you again? ^_^ [Hey, lookit me! Wanna see *my* scars? ^_^] ===> 10-3 Rumi: Having met the Matsuuras, WATASHI-tachi MATSUURA FUSAI ni DEAtte we wanted to cherish the we meet-the-Matsuuras-(and) throbbing hearts that we hadn't felt in a long HISABISA ni KANjita tokimeki o while. after-a-long-time felt heart-throb (O) TAISETSU ni shitai no want-to-value So please... da kara o-NEGAi Forgive us...'kay? YURUshite...ne? --------------------------------------------------- P> not habit of being strange...but closer to 'have been a bit strange/ P> different often/from-the-beginning/usually" Okay. H> Ummm, to me, one is "a bit strange", or is in "the habit of doing H> strange things"; habit refers to behavior, not innate traits. Okay. A> > H> "This is too outrageous to forgive!!" ? A> > The literal sounds more forceful to me. A> I agree... sounds somehow more dramatic. Yes. H> It strikes me as too wordy. Drop "the limits of" ??? But is there! And I think it sounds fine. It's supposed to be dramatic. ===> 11-2 Miki: [off] Sure, my parents have sorya uchi no OYA wa fudan kara chotto usually been a bit strange, sure my-parents (T) from-usual a-bit but this time this outrageousness has gone KAwatta toko ga atta kedo beyond the limits of different case (S) were-there but forgiveness!! KONKAI no wa hido-sugiru this-time (nom) (T) too-outrageous/ too-unreasonable YURUseru HAN'I o KOete-ru yo!! can-forgive limits (O) is-surpassing --------------------------------------------------- P> > 11-3 P> > Meiko: [beaming] _______ P> > Oh, but your parents are ara demo fanki-- de TANOshii P> > so funky and cheerful. oh but funky is-(and) cheerful P> > P> > go-RYOUSHIN ja nai P> > (hon)-parents P> P> fun, i think rather than cheerufl Yah, but "funky and fun" sounds weird. And the deeper you get into MB, you'll see that they are always "cheerful". --------------------------------------------------- P> sharp, too, in ===> 11-Sidebar ______ _______ Don't the boys look pretty DANSHI mo daburu no su--tsu ni sharp, too, in double-vested boys too in-double-vested-suits suits without ties? _______ no--tai de nakanaka oshare desho? with-no-tie quite dandy poss-be --------------------------------------------------- T> > 11-4 T> > Meiko: T> T> > My parents'... uchi nanka... T> > T> > 12-1 T> > [Somberly, Meiko drops her gaze. Miki looks on with surprise.] T> > Meiko: T> > ...marriage has grown FUUFU NAKA wa T> > completely cold, and even married-couple relationship (T) T> > though they each have T> > lovers, my father, for HIe-kitte-te T> > appearance's sake, and is-growing-completely-cold-(and) T> > my mother, for financial T> > reasons, won't ever get a o-TAGAi AIJIN mo iru T> > divorce. mutually one's-lover too is-there T> > T> > no ni CHICHI wa SEKENTEI kara T> > even-tho father (T) appearances for T> > T> > HAHA wa KEIZAI-TEKI RIYUU kara T> > mother (T) economical reason for T> > T> > ZETTAI RIKON shinai no T> > absoluteness not-divorce (nom) T> T> This makes much more sense. Ah, but is it *right*? ^_^ P> > Suggestion: P> > My parents.... P> > marriage has gone completely cold. Even if they do care for one another, P> > it's because of appearances that my father, and for financial reasons P> > that my mother would never get a divorce. P> P> Pretty much...i dunno if it necessarly 'ends'. The last -'te isn't a P> quote-te tho. it's more a 'past-tense-marker' or whatever it's formally P> called. They're married-coupel-relationship has already grown completly P> cold and... Okay, that part checks. What about that ??? --------------------------------------------------- P> would have been better ===> 12-1 Meiko: It would have been better sassato WAKArete-kurereba YOkatta if they had split up right at-once if-separate-(for-me) was-good away! no ni even-though --------------------------------------------------- P> not quite. the kokoro-ni-kizu-o-ou, is how much emotional damage you might P> cause to a kid, who grows up wathcing parents in a bad relation ship. ===> 12-1 It's so emotionally scarring FUNAKA no RYOUSHIN o MIte to grow up watching your on-bad-terms 's parents (O) see-(and) parents in such an ugly relationship... SODAtsu KODOMO ga donna ni be-brought-up child (S) how-much KOKORO ni KIZU o Ou ka... in-heart injure (?) --------------------------------------------------- P> > Is that strong enough for ZETTAI? "I won't ever get married" ??? P> P> sure...make it stronger ===> 12-2 Meiko: I'll *never* get married... ----atashi wa I (T) ZETTAI KEKKON nanka shinai absoluteness not-marry-or-such --------------------------------------------------- P> and/so that's why you... ===> 12-3 Miki: So that's why you refuse sore de KOUSAI no MOUshiKOmi all offers of friendship. and-so friendship 's proposal ZEMBU KOTOWAtte-ru no all are-refusing --------------------------------------------------- 12-4 S> Craig, when you asked about a word to describe Miki's over-the-shoulder, S> "why do I have to put up with this?" look... this word popped into my S> head: exasperated. Does this work? This works elsewhere, but this frame is different, I guess. In this particular frame, Miki doesn't look so much exasperated as, well... It's like when someone says something off-the-wall, and you turn to someone else and raise an eyebrow. "Oh brother..." --------------------------------------------------- Craig From dlee@cloverleaf.com Sat Sep 30 03:02:13 1995 Received: from news.cloverleaf.com by soyokaze.biosci.ohio-state.edu (8.6.10/1.950110) id DAA11457; Sat, 30 Sep 1995 03:02:10 -0400 Received: from lucky.cloverleaf.com (shell.cloverleaf.com [205.153.188.2]) by news.cloverleaf.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA24136 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 1995 23:44:26 -0700 Received: from localhost (dlee@localhost) by lucky.cloverleaf.com (8.6.5/8.6.5) id XAA29191; Fri, 29 Sep 1995 23:52:13 -0700 Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 23:52:13 -0700 (PDT) From: Daniel Lee Subject: Re: [MB-MANGA] 1.1 p2 To: mboy-trans@soyokaze.biosci.ohio-state.edu cc: mboy-trans@soyokaze.biosci.ohio-state.edu In-Reply-To: <199509300318.DAA11311@soyokaze.biosci.ohio-state.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Sat, 30 Sep 1995, Jeanne Hedge wrote: > > > >>>Miki: [off] > >>> (Kyaaa! His smiling face is (kyaaa WARAtta KAO ga CHOU-kawaii!!) > >>> super-cute!!) smiled face (S) super-cute > >> > >>Perhaps "so cute" for "super-cute" ??? I think it scans a little > >>better, but I don't know if it's emphatic enough. > > > >i kinda like the "super-cute" > > > >CHOU could be "exceedingly", or "extraordinarily", but should be more > >than a simple "so". > > > >i think we should leave it "super" > > How about: "sooooooo CUTE!" > > (we *are* talking about a teenage girl after all. I've never heard teenager > girls talk about something being "super-cute" before. But maybe I've not > been around the right teenage girls? ) > > Jeanne Hedge I agree with Jeanne.... "super-cute"...somehow, doesn't really fit, i think. and well...you don't really hear many people say "that's super-cute!". "soooooo CUTE!!!" sounds like the happy medium between "super-cute" and "so cute" daniel lee From cnishida@netcom.com Sat Sep 30 15:28:54 1995 Received: from netcom14.netcom.com by soyokaze.biosci.ohio-state.edu (8.6.10/1.950110) id PAA11869; Sat, 30 Sep 1995 15:28:53 -0400 Received: by netcom14.netcom.com (8.6.12/Netcom) id MAA10777; Sat, 30 Sep 1995 12:26:20 -0700 Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 12:26:19 -0700 (PDT) From: "Craig H. Nishida" Subject: Re: [MB-MANGA] 1.1 (2/4) To: MB-trans ML Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Here are the collected comments to part 2 of chapter 1.1 (as of noon Saturday): On Fri, 29 Sep 1995, Harold writes: H> On Fri, 29 Sep 1995, Gary writes: G> On Fri, 29 Sep 1995, Jeanne writes: J> On Fri, 29 Sep 1995, Daniel writes: D> H> >14-1 H> >[Exterior evening shot of a restaurant.] H> >Miki: [off] H> > (I can't very well allow (SHAKAI JOUSHIKI kara H> > them to quietly pretend society/the-public common-sense from H> > that they can exist separate ____ H> > from the common sense of hazureta mane suru no o H> > the rest of society. was-disconnected/ pretending (O) H> > was-contrary-to H> > H> > DAMAtte MIsugosu wake ni wa ikanai H> > silently let-pass can't-very-well H> H> This is awkward.... Try suggesting something. I spent a lot of time messing with and came up with either the above or "...exist apart from the..." I suppose it could be stronger and be "...exist in opposition to the..." H> Is "quietly" associated with Miki or her parents? I *think* it's conjunctive, but what do I know. I.e., *and* ? --------------------------------------------------- H> >14-3 H> >narration: H> > This couple seems nice. YASAshi-sou na go-FUUFU H> > H> >narration: H> > They look like very sugoku matomo na HITOTACHI ni H> > reasonable folks... awfully upright/sane people H> > H> > MIeru kedo---- H> > appear but H> H> The Duffy's used "normal" instead of "reasonable", which might be a H> better shading. Again, "normal" seems kinda vanilla for . Another gloss could be "sound". --------------------------------------------------- G> 15-Free Talk G> ________ _____ G> >(The transparencies are (TOUMEI no wa burega-- rukku, G> > , and the transparency (nom) (T) ???????? look? G> > pink ones are rough-style.) _____ ____ _______ G> > pinku no wa rafu na sutairu) G> > pink (nom) (T) rough-style G> G> G> could that be "bureza-- rukku" => "blazer-look"? is still doesn't seem to G> make much sense. i'll ask Tatsuya about it later. Looking closely, it *is* a not a . For someone with enough trouble reading *printed* Japanese, isn't *handwritten* Japanese wonderful? Still, I think she has better handwriting than I do. G> duh! G> G> at first i thought "blazer-look" and "rough-style" were describing the G> folders instead of the drawings on the folders. G> G> here's what i think is going on : G> G> there are 2 files, one transparent and one pink. each file has G> both Miki and Yuu on it: the transparent one with blazer-look (ie: G> wearing those smart-looking blazers) and the pink one with G> rough-style (more casual attire ?). I don't think I've ever seen anyone answer his own post before! ^_^ I always thought "rough style" was "rough draft", but I could be wrong. [For example, see the closing credits to "Bakuen Campus Guardress".] ===> 15-Free Talk ________ _____ (The ones that are (TOUMEI no wa bureza-- rukku, transparencies are the transparency (nom) (T) blazer-look blazer look, and the pink _____ ____ _______ ones are rough-style.) pinku no wa rafu na sutairu) pink (nom) (T) rough-style --------------------------------------------------- G> comma after kedo (before KANSOU) Thank you for checking the romaji, Gary. There was usually someone checking for me on KOR-trans, and that was a good thing. And I notice you caught a few missing items below. ===> 15-Free Talk The editor will select the NIGAOE wa TANTOU-san ga portraits, but I'm choosing likeness/portrait (T) person-in-charge (S) the postcards containing ______ your thoughts. ERAbu kedo, KANSOU hagaki choose but thoughts/feelings/ postcard impressions wa WATASHI ga ERAnde-masu. (T) I (S) am-choosing --------------------------------------------------- H> >17-3 H> >Miki: [off] H> > (Kyaaa! His smiling face is (kyaaa WARAtta KAO ga CHOU-kawaii!!) H> > super-cute!!) smiled face (S) super-cute H> H> Perhaps "so cute" for "super-cute" ??? I think it scans a little H> better, but I don't know if it's emphatic enough. We're talking about a 10th-grade girl here. I think "super cute" scans well. G> i kinda like the "super-cute" Well, I do, too. G> CHOU could be "exceedingly", or "extraordinarily", but should be more G> than a simple "so". G> G> i think we should leave it "super" J> How about: "sooooooo CUTE!" J> J> (we *are* talking about a teenage girl after all. I've never heard J> teenager girls talk about something being "super-cute" before. But J> maybe I've not been around the right teenage girls? ) D> I agree with Jeanne.... "super-cute"...somehow, doesn't really fit, I D> think. and well...you don't really hear many people say "that's D> super-cute!". "soooooo CUTE!!!" sounds like the happy medium between D> "super-cute" and "so cute" Either way for me. Although it's only running 3-to-2, I'll defer to Jeanne, who might know better about it than me! ^_^ ===> 17-3 Miki: [off] (Kyaaa! His smiling face is (kyaaa WARAtta KAO ga CHOU-kawaii!!) so-o-o cute!!) smiled face (S) super-cute --------------------------------------------------- H> >17-4 H> >[A super-deformed Miki claps hands to her blushing cheeks and turns aside.] H> H> Might want to define SD and give the abbreviation for future use. Well, I always figured the "visual cues" I write down are for the critiquers' benefit--not everyone has the manga. For the final script, though, people out there oughtta be buying the manga and not relying on *MY* descriptions. Otherwise, it's THEIR loss. Isn't "super-deformed" a pretty well-known term? Oh well, if I define "SD" I suppose it'll help reduce my visual cues. ===> 17-4 [A super-deformed Miki (SD-Miki) claps hands to her blushing cheeks and turns aside.] --------------------------------------------------- 17-4 H> >Miki: H> > (Oh no. What'll I do?! (ya da dou shiyou_ H> > H> > Maybe I can get to know konna KO to SHIriAi ni nareru H> > a boy like this. with-boy-like-this can-become-acquaintance H> H> "A" or this particular boy? = like-this; this-kind-of; such-a --------------------------------------------------- G> missing line: ===> 18-1 Rumi: ? ? --------------------------------------------------- H> >18-4 H> >Miki: [off] H> > Because something like this datte konna no H> > goes beyond the absurd!! because like-this (nom) H> > H> > mechakucha sugimasu!! H> > super/unbelievable is-more-than H> H> I think this sentance needs to be tighter. Drop "something like" ? It's there in the Japanese. --------------------------------------------------- 18-4 H> >Rumi: [off] H> H> How do you know it's her? I asked her. Rumi and I go back a ways... Okay, think about it. Jin says the next line and you know the two like to pass lines back and forth. (I believe it was also this way in the anime, but that's irrelevant here.) H> > Ah, it's okay. a DAIJOUBU H> > H> > Those things have been sono hen no NEMAWAshi wa H> > taken care of already. thereabouts 's necessary-prearrangements (T) H> > H> > sunde-ru kara H> > are-ending/are-clear that's-why H> H> Tighter? : "That's alrady been taken care of" ? I'm just worried about the . --------------------------------------------------- H> >18-5 H> >Miki FX: H> > furu furu H> H> I think "tremble" has a clearer connotation. "Tremble" to me has the connotation of *fear*. One trembles with fear. OTOH, one shakes with anger. --------------------------------------------------- H> >19-1 H> >[Miki goes ballistic, rising to her feet and resting her palms on the table.] H> >Miki: H> > Then what becomes of sore ja atashi to YUU-kun no H> > Yuu-kun's and my feelings?! and-so/then Yuu's-and-my H> > H> > KIMOchi wa dou naru no yo_ H> > feelings (T) what becoming ! H> H> This doesn't quite work; "Then what about Yuu-kun's..." ??? But I don't think that's *quite* right in meaning. More like Then what's going to happen with... It's the = turn-into. Well, I'll leave this decision to those who are fluent. --------------------------------------------------- H> This sounds a little to formal or stilted for the heat with which H> she's speaking now.... How about: ===> 19-1 Miki: We're children who're OYA no MIGATTE ni furimawasareru abused by parents who have parent 's as-one-pleases are-abused everything their own way... KODOMO no MI ni mo natte------ into-child's-person too turning-into --------------------------------------------------- H> "like this..." ??? Oops. ===> 19-3 Miki: Wha... na... Even though your own parents anta JIBUN no OYA ga konna are saying something you self 's parents (S) like-this outrageous like this... tondemonai koto Itte n no ni outrageous thing saying (nom) even-tho --------------------------------------------------- H> "breakup crisis" is a little awkward, but this sentance needs more H> emphasis than simply "crisis." Not really. This is Yuu's line and, unlike Miki, he's sitting there, taking it in very calmly. I think all he's saying is "sure it's a crisis but take it easy." ===> 20-2 Yuu: [off] Even though it's a critical KATEI HOUKAI no KIKI da tte time when your family's home/family collapse 's crisis is (quote) breaking up, stay calm. no ni HEIZEN to shichatte even-tho being-cool/calm-(finality) --------------------------------------------------- H> Jumpy? Sounds like a bit of a non-sequitor after "stay calm." Check the Japanese. Miki doesn't use the same term as Yuu either. Nervous? Actually, this line is probably all wrong anyway. ===> 20-2 Miki: [off] Who's being nervous?! do-- yu-- SHINKEI shite n no?! what-kind-of-nerves doing/making --------------------------------------------------- H> "Miki is the only one who opposes this, right?" ? ===> 20-2 Rumi: In other words... tsumari... Miki is the only one who HANTAI shite n no MIKI dake na no opposes this, right? opposing (nom) only-Miki is (nom) yo nee --------------------------------------------------- G> missing line: Whups! ===> 21-3 Miki: [off] ____ The cooking's bad... RYOURI wa heta da shi cooking (T) poor/unskilled is and-besides They sleep in late... NEBOU wa suru shi oversleep/rise-late and-besides --------------------------------------------------- H> >21-3 H> > And it's not just a case do-- shiyo-- mo nai toko bakka H> > of what will I do...! what-will-do too not-have case just H> H> I think this sentance needs to be tightened, and connected a bit H> better to the proceeding one. Well, I *SAID* I was punting that last line... --------------------------------------------------- Craig From platypus@nimbus.som.cwru.edu Sat Sep 30 18:10:17 1995 Received: from nimbus.som.cwru.edu by soyokaze.biosci.ohio-state.edu (8.6.10/1.950110) id SAA12232; Sat, 30 Sep 1995 18:10:16 -0400 Received: by nimbus.som.cwru.edu (5.65c/IDA-kng-hub-940917) (from platypus for mboy-trans@soyokaze.biosci.ohio-state.edu) id AA00773 at Sat, 30 Sep 1995 18:05:36 -0400 Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 18:05:36 -0400 From: Gary Kacmarcik Message-Id: <199509302205.AA00773@nimbus.som.cwru.edu> To: mboy-trans@soyokaze.biosci.ohio-state.edu In-Reply-To: <199509300617.GAA11413@soyokaze.biosci.ohio-state.edu> (cnishida@netcom.com) Subject: Re: [MB-MANGA] 1.1 (1/4) >G> i asked Tatsuya (who is visiting here from Japan) > >What's his last name? I can credit him in the final script. whoops!. i meant to give his full name so that he could be credited. Tatsuya Watanabe -gary From platypus@nimbus.som.cwru.edu Sat Sep 30 18:44:39 1995 Received: from nimbus.som.cwru.edu by soyokaze.biosci.ohio-state.edu (8.6.10/1.950110) id SAA12276; Sat, 30 Sep 1995 18:44:39 -0400 Received: by nimbus.som.cwru.edu (5.65c/IDA-kng-hub-940917) (from platypus for mboy-trans@soyokaze.biosci.ohio-state.edu) id AA00853 at Sat, 30 Sep 1995 18:39:58 -0400 Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 18:39:58 -0400 From: Gary Kacmarcik Message-Id: <199509302239.AA00853@nimbus.som.cwru.edu> To: mboy-trans@soyokaze.biosci.ohio-state.edu In-Reply-To: <199509301928.TAA11873@soyokaze.biosci.ohio-state.edu> (cnishida@netcom.com) Subject: Re: [MB-MANGA] 1.1 when Yoshizumi Wataru uses handwritten dialog, it seems to indicate one of n things (where n=4): o sound FX o note or caption o dialog in the distance (offscreen or secondary dialog) o character thoughts the FX and the notes/captions are noted properly in the translation, and the 2nd-ary/offscreen dialog (eg: 26-6 and 40-4) don't really need special notation. however, the character thoughts should be noted as such. eg: on 34-1, Miki wouldn't actually say "and who's fault is that?" to her mother, and i doubt she would say the "no respect" line in 28-2 or the "He heard me" line in 38-2 while Yuu was standing right next to her. anyway, here's a list of the handwritten dialogs that are not notes, captions, FXs, or off-screen/distant dialogs. these should probably all be marked with (parentheses) to indicate character thoughts. 11-03 Miki: You have no sympathy for me... 12-03 Miki: Even though you're popular. 22-03 Jin: There's some connection, but... 28-02 Miki: This guy's being too familiar with me. [...] 32-03 Chiyako:Don't go too far. 34-01 Miki: And who's to blame for that confusion? 38-02 Miki: He heard me... 39-01 Ginta: What does that mean? the following is probably an FX instead of dialog: 30-02 Yuu: Shake -gary From platypus@nimbus.som.cwru.edu Sat Sep 30 18:58:39 1995 Received: from nimbus.som.cwru.edu by soyokaze.biosci.ohio-state.edu (8.6.10/1.950110) id SAA12299; Sat, 30 Sep 1995 18:58:38 -0400 Received: by nimbus.som.cwru.edu (5.65c/IDA-kng-hub-940917) (from platypus for mboy-trans@soyokaze.biosci.ohio-state.edu) id AA00890 at Sat, 30 Sep 1995 18:53:58 -0400 Date: Sat, 30 Sep 1995 18:53:58 -0400 From: Gary Kacmarcik Message-Id: <199509302253.AA00890@nimbus.som.cwru.edu> To: mboy-trans@soyokaze.biosci.ohio-state.edu In-Reply-To: <199509301928.TAA11873@soyokaze.biosci.ohio-state.edu> (cnishida@netcom.com) Subject: Re: [MB-MANGA] 1.1 (3,4) ----------- 32-3 missing dialog: Chiyako: ...... Chiyako: (Don't go too far.) hodohodo ni shi nasai yo moderation ---------- 34-7 >narration: > Sure, I admit he's sorya KAO ga ii no wa > good-looking, but (how sure face (S) good (nom) (T) > often did I make the > mistake of going MITOmeru kedo (FUKAKU ni mo > pitter-patter...) admit but carelessly/make-a-blunder > > NANDO ka tokimeite-shimatta > how-often (?) heart-throbbed-(finality) > > kedo) > but pitter-patter? this sounds odd. how 'bout: Sure, I admit he's good-looking, but (how often have I made mistakes by following my heart-throbs...) -gary