From tariqas-digest-approval@europe.std.com Sun Jul 7 07:24:14 1996 Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 04:58:30 -0400 (EDT) From: tariqas-digest-approval@europe.std.com Reply-To: tariqas-digest@world.std.com To: tariqas-digest@world.std.com Subject: tariqas-digest V1 #33 tariqas-digest Thursday, 27 June 1996 Volume 01 : Number 033 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ellen L Price Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 07:44:17 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: Spirituality and Significant Others On Tue, 25 Jun 1996, Frank Gaude wrote: [snip] > Hello, folks, Hanza, Lilyan, Brett, all friends! > > > Wow! Hanza, you have brought up an interesting topic to many people in this day > and age. How to be conscious enough to engage in pair-bonding that lasts a > lifetime. From what I hear there are as many divorces as there are marriages these > days, starting in the late 50s. Seems that people don't wish to take the time to > "work things out" with their mates, it's so easy to just split. But, as Iram > points out, what do we learn from doing that? > [snip] > Thank you for your wonderful account. I would like to make a point about the above. I have recently been reading a book _Men Who Can't Love_. The author says that these folk (mostly men) have a phobia towards making a commitment (a genuine, full-blown, fear). Until the 50s with the sexual revolution and women's liberation, men were forced into marraige by society in order to have sex and to avoid raised eye brows (What's wrong with him that he isn't married yet). After marraige they distanced themselves through drinking, womanizing, retreat into reading or scholarly studies, or unpleasantness, quarreling and violence. Some deserted their families. Now these men either flee at the first suggestion of commitment, start seeing other women, or start being quarrelsome so that the woman will leave. This book was an eye opener to me because unfortunately I have been associated with some of these types. I now realize that no matter how hard I tried to make it work my efforts were pointless. My heart sings for all those good men out there who are able to make a commitment to love and life. Ellen ------------------------------ From: Lilyan Kay Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 08:59:59 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: Spirituality and Significant Others > Thank you for your wonderful account. I would like to make a point about > the above. I have recently been reading a book _Men Who Can't Love_. > The author says that these folk (mostly men) have a phobia towards making > a commitment (a genuine, full-blown, fear). Until the 50s with the > sexual revolution and women's liberation, men were forced into marraige > by society in order to have sex and to avoid raised eye brows (What's > wrong with him that he isn't married yet). After marraige they distanced > themselves through drinking, womanizing, retreat into reading or > scholarly studies, or unpleasantness, quarreling and violence. Some > deserted their families. Now these men either flee at the first > suggestion of commitment, start seeing other women, or start being > quarrelsome so that the woman will leave. This book was an eye opener to > me because unfortunately I have been associated with some of these > types. I now realize that no matter how hard I tried to make it work my > efforts were pointless. My heart sings for all those good men out there > who are able to make a commitment to love and life. > > Ellen > asalaam-u-aleikum Interestingly, it is assumed to be only men who feel trapped. Is it a matter of biology as destiny and the woman's role in childbearing, and/or are these tendencies reflections of our deeper natures as men and women? Or is this even really the case or do men just tend to express it in these ways (remember the Bell Jar)? Murtaza Mutaheri, an Ayatollah who was killed by the opposition shortly after the revolution in Iran, wrote (paraphrasing) that in the past, only a man of great wealth and power could afford to indulge himself with many women, and then only at great expense to maintain them in the "harem". But nowadays it is easy for the average (and even total loser) man to do this at little or no cost or trouble to himself. Lily ------------------------------ From: RHMH@aol.com Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 13:18:13 -0400 Subject: Ghazels from the Divan of Hafiz: XX XX Hail, Shiraz! peerless site! Heaven defend it from every danger. Give a hundred praises to our Roknabad to which the light of Heaven hath given its radiance! For between Jafferbad and Mosella bloweth his north-wind scented with ambergris. Come ye to Shiraz, and the outpouring of the Holy Spirit entreat for it, from the man who is the possessor of perfection. Let no one vaunt here the sugar of Egypt, for out sweet ones have no cause for shame. O, morning breeze, what news dost thou hear of that intoxicated beauty? What tidings canst thou give me of her state? O God! awaken me not from my dream, that I may sweeten my loneliness with that vision. Yea, if that sweet one should wish to shed my blood, yield it up, my heart, like mother^Rs milk. Wherefore, O Hafiz, if thou art overwhelmed by the thought of absence, wast thou not grateful for the days of the presence of the beloved? Ghazels from the Divan of Hafiz Translated by Justin Huntly McCarthy (From a typescript edition in the SIRS Archives, originally transcribed by Murshid Wali Ali Chisti from a copy at the San Francisco Public Library.) ------------------------------ From: Craig Johannsen Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 10:49:28 -0700 Subject: Re: sufi! CWoodsong@aol.com wrote: > > my dear, lovely friends, > > I have another question(s): > > why sufi? > what is it about this /particular/ path that inspires, or leads you? > > what is it about this particular wisdom passed from one to another that is so > important to you? ... was there ever any doubt as to your path? Is there > any other Way that you might be satisfied with? > > Is the 'new age' the time for sharing... or has this always been? > > Is Sufism simply another 'ism', another veil between 'me' and that which is > Real? Why is initiation necessary? > > okay... way too many questions... <> Many of you will probably know, > better than i, what it is i am asking! :) I'll be ever grateful for whatever > may be offered in response... > > thank you all so very much.... :) > > love, > carol Please forgive me if the following sounds like I am speaking for all Sufism and am an authority on the subject -- I am not. It's just a thought: Perhaps sufism is a vehicle, like a car. You get in it and it can transport you over vast distances. It's an odd kind of car though, because you're supposed to let Someone else drive it while you do the pedalling! And you should take it where others need it to go, not where you merely fancy to travel. Initiation, then, is just the driving lessons. There are other possible vehicles and the driving lessons are different for those vehicles. (The above metaphor fails to convey the sense in which sufism is a commitment to a way of life and its capacity to transform.) ------------------------------ From: Craig Johannsen Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 10:49:28 -0700 Subject: Re: sufi! CWoodsong@aol.com wrote: > > my dear, lovely friends, > > I have another question(s): > > why sufi? > what is it about this /particular/ path that inspires, or leads you? > > what is it about this particular wisdom passed from one to another that is so > important to you? ... was there ever any doubt as to your path? Is there > any other Way that you might be satisfied with? > > Is the 'new age' the time for sharing... or has this always been? > > Is Sufism simply another 'ism', another veil between 'me' and that which is > Real? Why is initiation necessary? > > okay... way too many questions... <> Many of you will probably know, > better than i, what it is i am asking! :) I'll be ever grateful for whatever > may be offered in response... > > thank you all so very much.... :) > > love, > carol Please forgive me if the following sounds like I am speaking for all Sufism and am an authority on the subject -- I am not. It's just a thought: Perhaps sufism is a vehicle, like a car. You get in it and it can transport you over vast distances. It's an odd kind of car though, because you're supposed to let Someone else drive it while you do the pedalling! And you should take it where others need it to go, not where you merely fancy to travel. Initiation, then, is just the driving lessons. There are other possible vehicles and the driving lessons are different for those vehicles. (The above metaphor fails to convey the sense in which sufism is a commitment to a way of life and its capacity to transform.) ------------------------------ From: Ellen L Price Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 11:36:09 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: Spirituality and Significant Others In the below mentioned book the author mentions that while women may also have this phobia, their urge to have children helps them to overcome their commitment anxieties. Also women have need for protection and financial security which will induce them to make commitments and override their fears. Ellen On Wed, 26 Jun 1996, Lilyan Kay wrote: > > > > Thank you for your wonderful account. I would like to make a point about > > the above. I have recently been reading a book _Men Who Can't Love_. > > The author says that these folk (mostly men) have a phobia towards making > > a commitment (a genuine, full-blown, fear). Until the 50s with the > > sexual revolution and women's liberation, men were forced into marraige > > by society in order to have sex and to avoid raised eye brows (What's > > wrong with him that he isn't married yet). After marraige they distanced > > themselves through drinking, womanizing, retreat into reading or > > scholarly studies, or unpleasantness, quarreling and violence. Some > > deserted their families. Now these men either flee at the first > > suggestion of commitment, start seeing other women, or start being > > quarrelsome so that the woman will leave. This book was an eye opener to > > me because unfortunately I have been associated with some of these > > types. I now realize that no matter how hard I tried to make it work my > > efforts were pointless. My heart sings for all those good men out there > > who are able to make a commitment to love and life. > > > > Ellen > > > > asalaam-u-aleikum > > Interestingly, it is assumed to be only men who feel trapped. Is it a > matter of biology as destiny and the woman's role in childbearing, and/or > are these tendencies reflections of our deeper natures as men and women? > Or is this even really the case or do men just tend to express it in these > ways (remember the Bell Jar)? > > Murtaza Mutaheri, an Ayatollah who was killed by the opposition shortly > after the revolution in Iran, wrote (paraphrasing) that in the past, only > a man of great wealth and power could afford to indulge himself with > many women, and then only at great expense to maintain them in the > "harem". But nowadays it is easy for the average (and even total loser) > man to do this at little or no cost or trouble to himself. > > Lily > > > ------------------------------ From: "K.Ahmad" Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 15:01:41 -0400 Subject: Re: sufi! Why Sufi? For I felt it in my heart It was not told to my heart But told from my heart To know The Beloved is what I inspire The Beloved sparked this intense desire So, by His will, I hope to burned by that fire To follow someone who has walked the path of divine Not to be Them, but to see what is in the seers wine Doubt is a drop that dissolves when faith is the sea when I look back, I see the branches of a tree when I face ahead. I only wish to dwell with Thee Kaleem ------------------------------ From: Ellen L Price Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 12:33:15 -0700 (MST) Subject: Re: sufi! On Wed, 26 Jun 1996 CWoodsong@aol.com wrote: > my dear, lovely friends, > > I have another question(s): > > why sufi? > what is it about this /particular/ path that inspires, or leads you? Sufism is the only path I have found that takes in all of the essence of western religion; that focuses on one God; that promotes unity rather than separation; that places the responsibility for being "saved" upon the shoulders of the individual rather than some "other," i.e., diety, saint, or priest. By that I mean that we have to work at it, it doesn't just automatically happen. We are responsible for our "sins" and we have to do something about them, they won't be washed away without effort on our parts. Sufism focuses on the inner rather than the outer. We are all in the heart of God, He's not out there somewhere. Sufism focuses on the love and the beauty of beind in unity and it is a way of life that carries over into every day life, it's not just a "once a week I go to (worship) so I'm saved, I'm religious, I'm "holy." > what is it about this particular wisdom passed from one to another that is so > important to you? ... was there ever any doubt as to your path? Is there > any other Way that you might be satisfied with? By being passed from one to another there is a sense of the real, of the Essence. It's not an intellectual exercise, some mind trick that one can do with the ego to convince oneself that because I have read such-and-such books and gone to so-many-lectures/retreats, etc. I have arrived. There is no place to "arrive." Once I embarked on this path there was never any doubt. I was "hooked." My teacher is a very good fisherman. I could see for myself the difference in life between being on the path and living the life of materialism, egosim, and animal greed. I have had experience with practically every major western religion and taught a course in oriental art where the study of the eastern religions was a central part. I've explored Zen and practice Tai Chi, but none of these have the love component that I find in Rumi. After all, it is love that makes the world go round. Love is the movement of Beauty. > Is the 'new age' the time for sharing... or has this always been? Perhaps this is a time similar to the renaissance when eyes were opened to the writings of the Greeks and the flowering of thought and new developments in religion and philosophy. > Is Sufism simply another 'ism', another veil between 'me' and that which is > Real? Why is initiation necessary? > > okay... way too many questions... <> Many of you will probably know, > better than i, what it is i am asking! :) I'll be ever grateful for whatever > may be offered in response... > > thank you all so very much.... :) > > love, > carol > > Sufism can be another 'ism.' It depends on you. If all you are doing is spiritualizing your ego, then indeed it will be another veil. Perhaps this is why the commitment to a real teacher is so important. I say commitment rather than initiation because some people collect initiations like trophies. Without commitment initiation is probably meaningless. With initiation goes the transmission of the line of the shaykh as well as his/her commitment to serve you in your search for freedom. I hope this has been of help. Blessings on your path, Ellen ------------------------------ From: maarof@pc.jaring.my Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 06:22:05 +0800 Subject: Re: sufi! On Wed, 26 Jun 1996, CWoodsong@aol.com wrote: >my dear, lovely friends, > >I have another question(s): > >why sufi? >what is it about this /particular/ path that inspires, or leads you? > Dear Carol the world is in such a bad state. are we going to let it rot away? to heal the world we have to heal ourselves first. Insha-Allah with our sincere prayers, man will find back its original purpose of (?) salam maarof (i'm still tying to find out that original purpose) ------------------------------ From: Well333@turbonet.com (Jacquie Weller) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 19:16:07 +0100 Subject: Today, A Hard Day Today I struggle, my feelings intense The oversensitiveness The things that bring no peace How fragile is the false self The up and down feelings If only I could wake up and And all the pain would die... I didn't want my best friend to leave The man I would marry. I didn't want my daughter's husband to die. I didn't want so many things. Today was a difficult day Love turns inside like sawdust. Bad memories come up When I think they are forgotten. Wake up O soul All that you thought, felt, said Is only one act of a play. It is a self-deluded dream. Wake up. Kaffea Lalla ------------------------------ From: Well333@turbonet.com (Jacquie Weller) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 19:16:52 +0100 Subject: Today, A Hard Day Today I struggle, my feelings intense The oversensitiveness The things that bring no peace How fragile is the false self The up and down feelings If only I could wake up and And all the pain would die... I didn't want my best friend to leave The man I would marry. I didn't want my daughter's husband to die. I didn't want so many things. Today was a difficult day Love turns inside like sawdust. Bad memories come up When I think they are forgotten. Wake up O soul All that you thought, felt, said Is only one act of a play. It is a self-deluded dream. Wake up. Kaffea Lalla ------------------------------ From: CWoodsong@aol.com Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 00:22:10 -0400 Subject: Re: Spirituality and Significant Others Hi Ellen and friends! :) >In the below mentioned book the author mentions that while women may also >have this phobia, their urge to have children helps them to overcome >their commitment anxieties. Also women have need for protection and >financial security which will induce them to make commitments and >override their fears. hmm... transferring one fear for another? What if we look at 'commitment' in a different light... what about the larger commitment to extended family, and community? Does commitment involve one man and one woman staying together 'no matter what', or can it also have something to do with seeking to see the higher good for all concerned, and maybe in a larger sense?-- to love, really love another... and want what is truly best with no thought of self... Commitment without love is nothing... and < perhaps also the reverse is true? -- Love without commitment is nothing? What exactly then IS commitment? Could it be, maybe, in some ways, a crutch? Do most people fear being "alone"?... or lonely? or in need in so many other ways? /My/ fear is this: If i commit to /one/ other, i may not be available for whatever my commitment to the One involves. A good friend of mine describes me as the wind... and i kinda like that. :) I feel as though i am available where i am needed.... in many places, for many people... Freedom... or delusion? :) dunno. This must be something i have to work on... i think i'm getting defensive! :)(: Interesting discussion... (this is all linked of course to my other questions... wow, what a wonderful place this is! :) love to all! carol ------------------------------ From: jabriel@peoples.net (Jabreil Hanafi) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 23:44:21 -0500 Subject: Re: Hamka was a Sufi (was Re: Several Adams) > To me, Hamka is a special servant of God. I have neither had the priveledge of knowing about Hamka before this thread or reading him would someone be kind enough to share a bibliography of share a few of titles. Thanks. Jabriel > >salam >maarof > > > - ----------------------------------------- Jabriel Hanafi Pivotal Point Dynamics ------------------------------ From: ASHA101@aol.com Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 00:45:27 -0400 Subject: Re: sufi! Dear Maarof, you wrote: ....the world is in such a bad state. are we going to let it rot away? to heal the world we have to heal ourselves first. Insha-Allah with our sincere prayers, man will find back its original purpose of (?)......... A quote of the day, june 26, by Inayat Khan, one of those sychronistic things so I just had to mention it ... >>>Every being has a definite vocation and his vocation is the light that illumines his life. The man who disregards his vocation is as a lamp unlit.<<< Many things you've written recently have been so beautiful, and full... you wrote, regarding being a sufi >> i'll be patience and prepare myself (read sufi books, do good deeds, be kind to life around me etc.) <<< well i just went to see a movie, it was about dragons and knights who follow the chivarlic code, which basically i think you just expounded --- if some were to ask why did i become a sufi it would be just this dedication to truth, beauty, kindness etc. You may say it is a little romantic and syrupy and i guess a litte fool hardy. Light headed you say? you are right i guess but still after 20 years what i want to do is pledge to truth and beauty and to uphold those who are down trodden, and ride my horse in the service of the great sun behind me, just like that knight on the screen. It's not real you say? well perhaps you are right, but it is a clue, to myslef or god i'm not sure, but it is a clue, this stirring in my heart, this hopeful up welling, like Kalleem who wrote a beautiful poem about being a sufi, you could feel the feeling upwelling, it makes you want to kneel and pledge, the sufis sometimes say in thier pledge "Ya Fatah"! Opener! they say it with profundity, and courage, and nobility and vitality and most of all honesty ... So many movies these days deal with betrayal and dispair and hate and cruelty, you know all the rest - but this movie, like the sufism i see all around, it is about the ideals of the heart ... these are the movies that i really like ... Asha, a movie goer (occasionally) ------------------------------ From: jabriel@peoples.net (Jabreil Hanafi) Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 23:50:53 -0500 Subject: relationships This intimacy is so difficult. I have been married four times and have had incredible relationships which I have learned from enormously. And I must say that all my ex-wives and many relationships have rarely ever not stayed in life long communication. Now this is the first time I have ever lived with and been accepted as part of a family. I am staying at a friend's house temporarily. The dynamic is quite interesting and what is present here are several people who are all as far as I can see in seemingly different spiritual paths. But there is a commitment to an other, and there is commitment to the family. I do not believe two people have got to be on the same spiritual path to love and grow with one another and be for one another. Where I have failed in the art of keeping a relationship going? I think I have paid my attention to my sense of early abandonment rather then what was in front of me. I think I though I knew my partner rather than having her be the same mystery that she was when I first pronounced eternal love. I think that for a relationship it is a little like the love one has for one's Source. If you call yourself your Source, if you broadcast and are not discreet about the love affair, if your Source is not a mystery, and if you do not remain the fool, the relationship goes out and war comes in. However, I am a fool gone astray! I believe that each time my heart has been swept away and I have fallen to my knees and I have seen the world in shades of pink that that is what is real. And overtime I hear the nattering of my mind and am brought back into the world of commerce whereby there is suffering, pain, greed and lust that is the illusion. I do not care if my female friend is a formal anything or is studying a formal anything. I care that I work on my mind to dissolve the sense of separation I have from her while still respecting her boundaries. And the most important thing above all else, I care that I keep a vigilant meditation which maintains a level of communication built on trust and love, and above all else not making each other wrong. Further, the idiocy about this being a male or a female thing might extend some reflection who sees it as either. That was no more or no less then one of our friend's on going barbs, more politely put another red herring, and some times fish smell awful. But I'm sure in all jest that bouquet has a place as does everything. Love. Jabriel - ----------------------------------------- Jabriel Hanafi Pivotal Point Dynamics ------------------------------ From: Lilyan Kay Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 22:30:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: relationships asalaam-u-aleikum Does this mean you're accusing me of being an idiot, passive aggressive, stinking, all or none of the above? Just curious. Lily On Wed, 26 Jun 1996, Jabreil Hanafi wrote: > Further, the idiocy about > this being a male or a female thing might extend some reflection who sees it > as either. That was no more or no less then one of our friend's on going > barbs, more politely put another red herring, and some times fish smell > awful. But I'm sure in all jest that bouquet has a place as does > everything. Love. Jabriel > ----------------------------------------- > Jabriel Hanafi > Pivotal Point Dynamics > > > ------------------------------ From: CWoodsong@aol.com Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 02:32:31 -0400 Subject: Re: relationships Jabriel said: >and above all else not making each other wrong. Making each other right? Making the two one? :)(: Good rule! :) love, woodsong ------------------------------ From: informe@best.com Date: Thu, 27 Jun 1996 01:55:21 -0700 Subject: Nonviolent communication While I was going through papers last night I rediscovered a little Xeroxed booklet/manual a friend gave me some time ago. It's about 25 pages of drills and theory of nonviolent communication, and in my opinion is one of the most valuable interpersonal tools I have found. But the manual has, perhaps significantly, no author's name or organization or any other identifying characteristic. It uses a paradigm of "giraffe" communication to stand for communication others feel comfortable accepting, and "jackal" communication for communication others are uncomfortable accepting. The goal is to train one to think before speaking and to say exactly what is going on inside oneself without evaluating or invalidating the other speaker or his/her mental processes, emotions, or perceptions. Sounds simple; in practice, it can be exasperatingly difficult. Some examples may help: "You're screwing me up." Jackal; you're assigning blame. "I feel like you're screwing me up." jackal; you're assigning blame under cover of revealing feelings. "When you do so-and-so, I get screwed up." jackal; you're still "getting" passively. "When you do so-and-so, I feel badly." quite giraffe "When you do so-and-so, I feel badly, because I expected you to do x-y-z, and I was counting on you, and I feel let down." solid giraffe The interesting thing is, that when you train yourself to communicate like this - which may require long pauses with communicants at first - the process of peeling the emotive onion takes the sting from the feeling. It's a kind of cognitive therapy, but more importantly, it's a way of breaking the wheel of karma, of deadending pain. Anyway, I didn't bring this up to try to teach it to everybody, but just to ask if anybody knows about this approach, who started it, if there are books out there about it, and so on. My apologies if anybody thinks this is touchy-feely California hottub-and-candles-and-incense drivel. Hamza ------------------------------ End of tariqas-digest V1 #33 ****************************