From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Wed Jan 17 19:15:40 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA21452; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 10:39:55 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id OAA19327; Wed, 17 Jan 1996 14:16:16 -0500 Received: from netcom10.netcom.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id OAA19304; Wed, 17 Jan 1996 14:16:12 -0500 Received: by netcom10.netcom.com (8.6.12/Netcom) id LAA18336; Wed, 17 Jan 1996 11:15:40 -0800 Date: Wed, 17 Jan 1996 11:15:40 -0800 (PST) From: Steven Finkelman Subject: Re: Iblis [was Re: mr. Rose on saint worship] To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Cc: tariqas@facteur.std.com In-Reply-To: <960115170407_117362541@mail06.mail.aol.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: > In a message dated 96-01-15 10:05:43 EST, you write: > >bj: Re: mr. Rose on saint worship > >Date: 96-01-15 10:05:43 EST > >From: slfink@netcom.com (Steven Finkelman) > >Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com > >Reply-to: tariqas@europe.std.com > >To: tariqas@europe.std.com > > hello Hal/Steven and all, > >>>>COPIED FROM BELOW<<<<<<<< > >Iblis is the destroyer of formal religion. There is no darkness, only light > and the seperation from light. There is no god but God. > > Is this a problem for traditional Islam? (esp. the part about Iblis?) in > other words, Is this "Sufic" understanding of Iblis also used in traditional > Islam? or is this one place where the two read the Teachings in different > ways? Tradition is an empty jacket, a memory of a time when this world did'nt exist. Formal religion is the politicization of spirituality around a common teaching. Formal religion have grown up as a contraction around an open teaching. the message which was given as a seed of formal religion is Know god, be god. Do this and you become god. Here is an example of One who manifests god. there is going to be no more examples you are on your own you can know god. Hey the real thing is the same, it is the heart of the heart of the heart of all religions and teachings. Few have gone forth and become direct knowers of god, eminations of god, those who have, have been martyred for saying this by the politicians who run the formal outer religious order. It would destroy the power base of any religion to have all of its congregants congregants commune with God directly. So those Hold the cards deny that this is possible. People see this and think that the path of one is the same path of the others. We are all born into this existance with different vehicles, different tensions, the work is the same. dissolve, become dust and the dust of the dust so that there is nothing left but god. the forms of the work is different each unique to each being in manifestation. Each persons work is presented to them by God every single day, every single minute, if we were not deaf and blind to the message. This is the gift given to each, for their own specific tasks. God is the cosmic mirror, the moon which reflects back to us our own denial. Which we are to accept and love, so that it dissolves, and we become free. the teaching was here before the creation of any religion, the revelations are different packages for the same message, wake up! Each in its own unique way for its time! Wake up! See the sunrise in your own heads, you have what you need use it. Flap the wings of your own hearts, burn, Fly into the sun, become the sun. Disolve into the solar wind. Become the dust of the dust. Become the dust of the dust of the dust until not even an atom of self remains. It has been given to me that one may call a person who is beyond distinction, a sufi. this in itself is a seperation. One who is a sufi would say that there are no distinction., Hu a'allah Sheikh Hal Sadiq al fazul From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu Jan 18 16:37:04 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA19913; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 13:02:03 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id LAA18446; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 11:37:12 -0500 Received: from indy80.gclab.missouri.edu by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id LAA18426; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 11:37:07 -0500 Received: (from c640429@localhost) by indy80.gclab.missouri.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA12134; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 10:37:05 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 10:37:04 -0600 (CST) From: Jawad Qureshi X-Sender: c640429@indy80.gclab.missouri.edu To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Cc: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: Salat: finger-gesture In-Reply-To: <199601171831.KAA03125@jobe.shell.portal.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: The finger gesture that you mentioned is detailed in the web sight that I mentioned to you by Sahikh Albani. The whole prayer and all the extra acts are mentioned in it. Salam, Jawad From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu Jan 18 13:30:34 1996 Received: from relay5.UU.NET by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA12741; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 20:52:12 -0500 Received: from europe.std.com by relay5.UU.NET with SMTP id QQzzbd20665; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 09:17:20 -0500 (EST) Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id IAA28020; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 08:43:19 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id IAA28008; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 08:43:17 -0500 Received: from xs1.xs4all.nl by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA18402; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 08:30:39 -0500 Received: by xs1.xs4all.nl id AA19008 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for tariqas@world.std.com); Thu, 18 Jan 1996 14:30:34 +0100 From: tommyboy Message-Id: <199601181330.AA19008@xs1.xs4all.nl> Subject: thank you all To: tariqas@world.std.com Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 14:30:34 +0100 (MET) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Content-Type: text Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: A Dear people Thank you very much for the warm interest you showed for my queries on tariqa in Central-Asia. Your answers and advises truely helped me in some ways. If i learned something from the discussion on 'saint worship' - which spinned off from my initial question - than it is that one should always consider one's own preassumptions when studying other cultures. Habib Rose rightly pointed me to the dangers of ethnocentric (and even slumbering evolutionistic) ideas: > The literature on any subject is a reflection of the perspective, bias, > and level of understanding of the writer. For hundreds of years, > literature about Africa would have described all Africans as savages. > This level of understanding conveniently ignores "details" like the great > African civilizations of Great Zimbabwe, Benin, Timbuktu, Ethiopia etc., > and makes the innacurate and racist assumption that Egyptian civilization > was solely a Mediterranean rather than African phenomenon (actually, many > of the Pharoahs were quite dark skinned Africans etc.) But, these facts > were not reflected in the literature, so what emerges is a highly biased > and inaccurate picture that conveniently fits in with the reader's world > view, and reinforces it. Maybe one of the major contributions the discipline of anthropology can make, is that through studying other cultures - or knowledge systems as i prefer to use - we can understand ourselves a bit better. So mr. Rose is very right when he says that: > Insh'Allah (God willing), if you continue to explore "Sufism" you will find > out much more about the reality. But, your understanding of Sufism will > still be largely based upon "where you are coming from." These notions are part and parcel of modern anthropology. Believe me that the self-critique within the discipline is very severe and i certainly could pack my luggage if i would come up with some shallow observations or 19th century theories. However, I put some questions on mr Habib Rose's following statements: > For other people, saints may have a teaching function (offering models > for behavior etc.) To truly understand these sorts of functions, you > need to: > 1. Be a Sufi > 2. Be familar with the context in which they are occuring. > Until then, it may be useful to concentrate on our own spiritual path, > before trying to "understand" (analyze) the paths of others. As for point 2) i fully agree, but i have my doubts on point 1): it sounds that we never could learn from other people unless we become one of them. In my discipline this is a methodological question with which i don't want to bother you here, my dear readers. In my humble opinion, however, it is very possible to understand other people's ways of living and thinking...one has to do so with much respect, care and love... I say this, because i believe there is more than enough misunderstanding in the world. Time and time again i am irritated by the biased and shallow ways modern media threats other cultures. I want to point, for instance, to one facet which is within your hearts: what do we (= the public in the west, reading and watching the news) see and hear from Islam? We hear about 'intolerant fundamentalism', hordes of fanatics, supressed women...what should i say more.... For sure it is not my image of this great religion (some of my best friends are muslims), but ask around and you will encounter a lot of misconceptions, even fear. I think that many people (in the west) are not aware of islamic philosophy and science, the beautiful poetry and music, the care for social welfare... Therefore i see it indeed as my personal spiritual path to understand the paths of other people...if only it is to inform 'my people' about the beautiful things those 'others' can learn 'us' and add to 'our society'. Again....thanks for your responses and warm sympathy. Many kind regards Thomas Voorter From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri Jan 19 01:32:47 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA17287; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 21:01:46 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id UAA05446; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 20:32:54 -0500 Received: from desiree.teleport.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id UAA05433; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 20:32:51 -0500 Received: from julie.teleport.com (bergner@julie.teleport.com [192.108.254.19]) by desiree.teleport.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA07000 for ; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 17:32:49 -0800 From: Paul Bergner Received: (bergner@localhost) by julie.teleport.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id RAA04919 for tariqas@facteur.std.com; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 17:32:47 -0800 Message-Id: <199601190132.RAA04919@julie.teleport.com> Subject: Re: Renga + 1 To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 17:32:47 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <01I05NBIQ46Q90T5CO@jazz.ucc.uno.edu> from "MJVBEG@jazz.ucc.uno.edu" at Jan 18, 96 01:00:11 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1192 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: > > > Wisconsin sunset > Parhelion blue cone floods > into my faint heart Noor > > Grey ice at the curb > Sliding on hard mounds of snow > Boots dodging puddles Saki Zenzaki > > Great Michigan Lake > Transformed, window panes crack, slide > Stilled waves pause and wait Holley Lantz > > While all else see ice > I sit under a blue sky > With sun blazing down Mikail Davenport > > > Cool grey town of love > Yesterday cold dark wet sky > Stopped to wash us Jamasp > > > > Today a bright sun > Drying yesterdays raindrops > Life is indeed great Tansen-Muni > > Wisconsin sunset > A dream of bygone summer > Warm winds are blowing Abi'l-Khayr > > Warm winds are blowing > Somewhere on the earth always > Every moment, even now Cynthia > > > Spider sky with clouds > Silver bands of sun's last light > Chill winds shake my soul Hadi > > Louisiana > Agadir, Ile de Gerba Mackie > Belighted Divans > A heron's song Disappearing Across the silent Gulf Abdul Mustafa From aorsellidickson@stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au Fri Jan 19 17:33:04 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA25197; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 21:18:00 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id VAA10618; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 21:17:59 -0500 From: aorsellidickson@stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au Received: from eagle.ac.cowan.edu.au by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA23601; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 21:14:45 -0500 Received: from stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au (stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au [139.230.161.10]) by eagle.ac.cowan.edu.au (8.7.1/8.7.1) with SMTP id KAA11542 for ; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 10:14:18 +0800 Message-Id: <199601190214.KAA11542@eagle.ac.cowan.edu.au> X-Nvlenv-01Date-Posted: 19-Jan-1996 10:16:00 -0500; at STINGRAY.ac.cowan X-Nvlenv-Content-Subject: Re: RUMI: This is Love! X-Nvlenv-Mts-Message-Id: C3B4FF30816C2979 X-Nvlenv-Notify-On-Read: allowed X-Nvlenv-Notify-On-Refusal: allowed X-Nvlipm-Non-Standard: SMF = 000Application-name: PMAIL To: tariqas-approval%world.std.com@stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au Subject: Re: RUMI: This is Love! Date: 19 Jan 96 17:33:04 GMT X-Nvlipm-Non-Standard: SMF = 000X-NetWare-UIC: AORSELLIDICKSON Status: RO X-Status: te: 18-Jan-1996 22:57:47 +1100 >Subject: RUMI: This is Love! >To: tariqas@world.std.com >From: tariqas-approval@world.std.com >Reply-to: tariqas@facteur.std.com >Greetings of the heart to all. > The following verses are of great interest to me, anybody would like to elabotate on their own understanding of what is the language of the birds? Rabia from Australia >This is Love! >Flying to the heavens, .... >To look beyond the range of the eye's vision, >to penetrate the passages of the soul! > >How did this breath come to you, my Soul? >How this throbbing, my Heart? > >Bird - speak the birds' language, >I can understand your hidden meaning!" > > >(From Jalaluddin Rumi's Divani Shamsi Tabrizi, >based on the translation by R. A. Nicholson.) > >This poem and others are available from the web page >http://www.physics.monash.edu.au/~darice/rumi.html > From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu Jan 18 20:18:36 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA15570; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 21:46:00 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id VAA11306; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 21:23:39 -0500 Received: from relay7.UU.NET by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id VAA11301; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 21:23:36 -0500 From: Jinavamsa@aol.com Received: from emout04.mail.aol.com by relay7.UU.NET with SMTP id QQzzcb26361; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 15:18:38 -0500 (EST) Received: by emout04.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id PAA04046 for tariqas@europe.std.com; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 15:18:36 -0500 Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 15:18:36 -0500 Message-Id: <960118151833_400403298@emout04.mail.aol.com> To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: submission Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: hello Mateen, thank you for your long and earnest reply to the request for more of an explanation of self and Allah (to put it succinctly). I don't think I understood what you were getting at, at least in one part of that post. Please point out how to interpret your words below. (I'll give you my first understanding, to show how I must have misunderstood): In a message dated 96-01-18 12:45:04 EST, you write: > Whoever knows his own or her own self never wants to appear, as > the appearance of the self is utterly ugly and debased in front > of God. The self is opposite in all qualities to what is > Divine. So if you know yourself, you know what your (true) Lord > is not, and by means of opposites you know your Lord. It is OK. So at one minute, I see myself as confused. Hence God (Allah) is clear. So far so good? A moment later, I see myself as petty. Hence God (Allah) is great. So far so good? A moment later, I see myself as compassionate. Hence God (Allah) is ......? But now, what's gone wrong here? thank you for the clarification, Jinavamsa > because of this that when a seeker approaches a true saint he > may begin to burn from embarassment. Suddenly all of his nafs' > faults will appear to him as gigantic as mountains. He will > see himself as the dirtiest and most vile of creatures. This is > a miracle of saints, that they are mirrors for seekers. As the > Prophet (pbuh) said, "al-mu'min mirat al-mu'min" - "the > Believer is a mirror for a believer." From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri Jan 19 02:26:00 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA25877; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 22:55:06 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id VAA11392; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 21:24:47 -0500 Received: from fastmail.worldweb.net by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id VAA11377; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 21:24:43 -0500 Received: from dns.worldweb.net (dns.worldweb.net [204.117.218.2]) by fastmail.worldweb.net (8.7.2/8.7.2) with SMTP id VAA03509 for ; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 21:31:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from JIM ([204.117.218.109]) by dns.worldweb.net with SMTP; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 22:39:24 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960119022600.002fc578@worldweb.net> X-Sender: jmccaig@worldweb.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 21:26:00 -0500 To: tariqas@facteur.std.com From: James McCaig Subject: Re: Sufism and Religions Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: At 10:17 PM 1/15/96 -0800, Haramullah wrote: >49960115 > >Peace be with you, my kin. > > >James McCaig : > >|I've always felt that the first Sufi was Eve. She was rebellious and broke >|the rules, desiring experience rather than blind acceptance by faith. > >The story I was told about Eve was that she gave in to temptation. I didn't >think that Sufis did that. Show me a Sufi who claims to have never succumbed to temptation; I will show you a teller of tales to rival Jalaludin Rumi. No Sufi would say this. > >|Since that time, everyone is born a Sufi. > >I was taught that we become Sufis (and few at that), that we are born to >a potentia condition in which we are at first innocent and incapable of >error. Then when we begin to take responsibility for our lives (some place >this at a particular time in life, some due to actions we choose) our >trial begins. Perhaps this makes one a Sufi from birth, though my thought >was that first we had to choose to follow the straight path, the path of >Allah, before we were Sufi. I welcome correction. No one could correct you here. What you believe, I believe. Becoming a Sufi is a process of rediscovery, some think. It could be seen as a process of peeling the onion, returning to the inner core. Who could define for another the straight path? Is your path my path? > > >|It is only the BELIEFS that are hammered into us that we must forget to >|rejoin the Sufi community. This forgetting is the object of most of the >|Sufi practices that are given by the various Sufi orders. > >All beliefs? Or just some of them? I agree that beliefs can stand in >the way of love, of the perfect path, but I wonder if some of these are >more dangerous, more deceptive, than others. Beliefs like 'I am better >than my sister' or 'I have learned everything I need to' strike me as >more dangerous than some sort of theological assumption. > Hazrat Inayat Khan said "There is a saying of the Prophet, ""every soul is born a believer, and it is others that make the soul an unbeliever"". I choose experience. Why not establish a personal relationship with the God within us all and listen to the inner voice of guidance, follow our conscience and the golden rule? >|A Sufi is a mystic. All great religions have their origin in mysticism. > >This is strange teaching to me given what I have seen so far. I was >taught that there is only one religion and that this is a path or deen >of Allah. Social traditions come and go, new religions are born and die, >but the Way of Allah is made plain to the faithful. I was told it is a >path rather than a religion, that it resides in no particular social >group, and that 'mysticism' is a fuzzy concept used by academics in ways >which may divide hearts if we are unaware. Yes, mysticism is a fuzzy concept. Difficult to understand and even more difficult to put into words. > >|The religion is the cup; the ingredients are always the same. If one >|focuses on the wine, rather than the container, differences between >|religions (most are run by the followers of followers of followers) melt >|away, don't you agree. All the prophets of the world's great religions >|brought essentially the same message, cast in different ways for those >|who were being rescued at the time. > >I do not see this, not as portrayed within the various religious >traditions of the world, no. I agree that we find followers of followers. >This is why we must enter into the fold of Allah, through His Messenger, >Muhammad. His followers can point us in that direction, yet like the >saints of whom others speak within this elist, they only point, lead, >encourage us to be righteous, inspire us with their virtue. This is your BELIEF and I respect it. One does hope, though, that there is a chance for those who come to God another way. For an Eskimo, say or an Australian Aborigine, who in spite of a spiritual tradition of 40,000 years may never have heard the name Muhammad. If we are all climbing the mountain to the One God, then don't we come together at the top, no matter the path? > > >|For this writer a friend is more valuable than any religion and maintenance >|of friendship requires devotion and caring, not just in the church, temple >|or mosque, but every day all day. > >The building we are in can become our mosque, the maintenance of our >friendships can become the remembrance of Allah (dhikr), and for those >who perservere, there is a reward. Well said. > > >I love this elist. Here we agree 100%! Warmest regards, Maharaj James McCaig | Sufi Center of Washington Brotherhood/Sisterhood Representative | Keepers of Sufi Center Bookstore United States | http://guess.worldweb.net/sufi jmccaig@worldweb.net From aorsellidickson@stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au Fri Jan 19 20:26:17 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA25961; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 00:12:05 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id AAA27065; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 00:12:04 -0500 From: aorsellidickson@stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au Received: from eagle.ac.cowan.edu.au by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA24178; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 00:08:05 -0500 Received: from stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au (stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au [139.230.161.10]) by eagle.ac.cowan.edu.au (8.7.1/8.7.1) with SMTP id NAA05404 for ; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 13:07:40 +0800 Message-Id: <199601190507.NAA05404@eagle.ac.cowan.edu.au> X-Nvlenv-01Date-Posted: 19-Jan-1996 13:09:16 -0500; at STINGRAY.ac.cowan X-Nvlenv-Content-Subject: help X-Nvlenv-Mts-Message-Id: 0FD8FF30816C2979 X-Nvlenv-Notify-On-Read: allowed X-Nvlenv-Notify-On-Refusal: allowed X-Nvlipm-Non-Standard: SMF = 000Application-name: PMAIL To: owner-tariqas%world.std.com@stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au Subject: help Date: 19 Jan 96 20:26:17 GMT X-Nvlipm-Non-Standard: SMF = 000X-NetWare-UIC: AORSELLIDICKSON Status: RO X-Status: A I am having difficulties in sending messages to tariqas, both using the REPLY function and sending a new message Please instruct me NEW message: which address should I type in:TO.....? I received a notification of rejected message (saved also as sys:\MHS\mail\snd\MB972) with an attachment, but cannot be opened and read. The message itself is unclear to me. Please help or tell who can help, using simple, real language! Thanks Unexperienced new list member aorsellidickson@stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri Jan 19 05:52:35 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA23358; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 01:29:56 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id AAA00703; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 00:52:43 -0500 Received: from homer31.u.washington.edu by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id AAA00695; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 00:52:36 -0500 Received: by homer31.u.washington.edu (5.65+UW96.01/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id AA133832; Thu, 18 Jan 96 21:52:35 -0800 X-Sender: lilyan@homer31.u.washington.edu Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 21:52:35 -0800 (PST) From: Lilyan Ila To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: submission In-Reply-To: <960118151833_400403298@emout04.mail.aol.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: asalaam-u-aleikum On Thu, 18 Jan 1996 Jinavamsa@aol.com wrote: > clip > > Whoever knows his own or her own self never wants to appear, as > > the appearance of the self is utterly ugly and debased in front > > of God. The self is opposite in all qualities to what is > > Divine. So if you know yourself, you know what your (true) Lord > > is not, and by means of opposites you know your Lord. It is > > OK. So at one minute, I see myself as confused. Hence God (Allah) is clear. > So far so good? > A moment later, I see myself as petty. Hence God (Allah) is great. > So far so good? > A moment later, I see myself as compassionate. Hence God (Allah) is ......? > But now, what's gone wrong here? This is my uninformed guess at what is meant. When I see 'myself' as compassionate I am much worse off than when I correctly recognize the other two qualities in myself, because I am wrongly crediting my own will/actions with achieving this divine state, instead of recognizing this manifestation of Allah swt. And this is how things work at this level, is it not? We are blessed to catch these glimpses of Truth, which are then spoiled by the 'self'-conscious and -congratulatory nafs. Lily From aorsellidickson@stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au Fri Jan 19 18:32:50 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA06537; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 02:18:12 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id CAA07462; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 02:18:11 -0500 From: aorsellidickson@stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au Received: from relay7.UU.NET by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA05486; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 02:13:45 -0500 Received: from eagle.ac.cowan.edu.au by relay7.UU.NET with ESMTP id QQzzdd27815; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 22:16:10 -0500 (EST) Received: from stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au (stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au [139.230.161.10]) by eagle.ac.cowan.edu.au (8.7.1/8.7.1) with SMTP id LAA03584 for ; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 11:14:09 +0800 Message-Id: <199601190314.LAA03584@eagle.ac.cowan.edu.au> X-Nvlenv-01Date-Posted: 19-Jan-1996 11:15:51 -0500; at STINGRAY.ac.cowan X-Nvlenv-Content-Subject: Re: thank you all X-Nvlenv-Mts-Message-Id: FBBEFF30816C2979 X-Nvlenv-Notify-On-Read: allowed X-Nvlenv-Notify-On-Refusal: allowed X-Nvlipm-Non-Standard: SMF = 000Application-name: PMAIL To: tariqas-approval%world.std.com@stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au Subject: Re: thank you all Date: 19 Jan 96 18:32:50 GMT X-Nvlipm-Non-Standard: SMF = 000X-NetWare-UIC: AORSELLIDICKSON Status: RO X-Status: >Subject: thank you all >To: tariqas@world.std.com >Date: 18-Jan-1996 14:30:34 +0100 >From: tariqas-approval@world.std.com >Reply-to: tariqas@facteur.std.com > >Dear Thomas >if you allow me to say a word about the question you addressed to Habib Rose: ************************* >However, I put some questions on mr Habib Rose's following statements: > >> For other people, saints may have a teaching function (offering models >> for behavior etc.) To truly understand these sorts of functions, you >> need to: >> 1. Be a Sufi >> 2. Be familar with the context in which they are occuring. > >> Until then, it may be useful to concentrate on our own spiritual path, >> before trying to "understand" (analyze) the paths of others. > >As for point 2) i fully agree, but i have my doubts on point 1): it sounds >that we never could learn from other people unless we become one >of them. In my discipline this is a methodological question with which i >don't want to bother you here, my dear readers. In my humble opinion, >however, it is very possible to understand other people's ways of living >and thinking...one has to do so with much respect, care and love... ++++++++++++++++++++++ I am only a very 'raw' dervish and therefore my opinion is only representing itself, not any teaching i received, it comes from my own intuition, so take it if it is of any value to you or discard it . The issue you raise here is about the nature of knowledge and understading. The nature of sufi 'knowldge'( or esoteric in any tradition) is quite different from scholarly knowledge, it is based on experience and state, not on information. One of the oragans/tools to process this knowledge in the mind is the 'intellect' (intelligere, to read through, within) in the medieval sense of the word(see F. Schuon on this), That is, illuminative intellect (illuminated by the light of spirit, quite different from what we call intellect/ intellectual today ( mainly to do with logic, discursive reason and thought). To know intellectually (in the modern sense of the word)is also quite different from "understanding" ( to stand under), just as knowledge is different from wisdom. Here i would disagree with Habib's equation UNDERSTANDING=ANALYSE Understading is quite different in nature and range of energy used from analysing (processing by comparing and synthesising) Understanding involves a qualitative leap, it involves internalising the essence, not the detail, of the matter, It also requires putting oneself openly, receptively and humbly 'under' a state that facilitates 'intuition' ,'insight ', and the sudden 'grasping' of the matter, often equated to 'seeing' (when we really understand something, do not we say: "I see!"? in-sight, vision within) Perhaps the word 'apprhension' may be used to indicate a different way of receiving/attuning to wisdom from the usual way of processing information. Words are of course very deceptive , ambiguous and limited in their use, especially in modern languages such as English, so it is not a matter of using certain terminology, but of trying to see what lies behind the words we use, being aware of all the cultural, language, emotional, personal connotations which can distort their meaning. Yet we may agree to use some terms, inadequate as they may be, once we try to find our common ground. In my limited experience there is a transmission of wisdom from heart to heart and spirit to spirit, qualitatively different from the usual processing of knowledge from mind to mind, one that cannot be easily expressed by words ( though words can convey by allusion, analogy and, metaphor some of the flavour and taste of this 'knowing'), a different apprehension which can only occur when our heart is open and our soul( nafs) reasonably free from the background noise of negativities, habitual, mechanic thoughts, 'Sufis' (or other names for beings who have done this work upon themselves to a high degree) can act as 'transmitters' of divine knowledge, patterns of meaning coming from the unseen, based on qualities, not on forms. We, the students, can 'attune' to these 'transmitters' (on the conditions specified before), but the source remains 'from yonder' (which is also within) In this sense i feel in my heart that Habib's remark is absolutely true. It is not a matter of opinion, but of taste. I have learnt a lot from dreams and contemplation of 'truths' expressed through feeling(not emotion!), music, 'presences', art, poetry, more than from any other source ( academic ) Not to say one cannot learn anything from books and discussion, but most of the real learning occurs through different pathways, evan at physiological level . Theta and alpha waves in the brain are connected with dreaming and meditation, rather than Beta\ ( associated with nornal state of the so called consciousness: better to call it state of awareness) The activity of the cerebellum/vs the cortex( rational thought;, the role of the solar plexus and of the hendocrynal system, especially the so called pineal gland, all these must be taken into consideration when looking at what is "thinking' and learning... it did not mean to be a lecture! Sorry for being carried away and rumbling, I am looking forward to further discussion on some of these matters. "O my Lord, increase me in knowledge!" Rabia (Annalisa) Aorsellidickson@ cowan.ecu.au > > From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri Jan 19 10:21:56 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA08399; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 05:47:41 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id FAA15127; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 05:25:26 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id FAA15114; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 05:25:23 -0500 Received: from mail.pixi.com (phoenix.pixi.com) by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA04892; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 05:22:00 -0500 Received: from rodan01.pixi.com (rodan01.pixi.com [140.174.243.192]) by mail.pixi.com (8.6.12/SMI-4.1) with SMTP id AAA12435 for ; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 00:21:56 -1000 Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 00:21:56 -1000 Message-Id: <199601191021.AAA12435@mail.pixi.com> X-Sender: sanjuan5@mail.pixi.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@world.std.com From: A&B San Juan Subject: Happy Ramadan! Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Bismillah ir-Rahman ir-Rahim O you, who aspire to intimate knowledge of the Friend Be prepared to lose your head. For if you would the Beloved know Know this, that in that knowing only One Is. When all the world with treasures is strewn Will you really turn and face this Way? The Lover who knows what Treasure is Sacrifices himself every moment. O King thy Glance has melted me -- Reyhan From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu Jan 18 19:00:11 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA28152; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 08:34:00 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id OAA10320; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 14:17:27 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id OAA10304; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 14:17:24 -0500 From: MJVBEG@jazz.ucc.uno.edu Received: from jazz.ucc.uno.edu by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA03911; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 14:14:02 -0500 Received: from jazz.ucc.uno.edu by jazz.ucc.uno.edu (PMDF V5.0-4 #11893) id <01I05NBINFQO90T5CO@jazz.ucc.uno.edu> for TARIQAS@WORLD.STD.COM; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 13:00:11 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 13:00:11 -0600 (CST) Subject: Renga To: TARIQAS@world.std.com Message-Id: <01I05NBIQ46Q90T5CO@jazz.ucc.uno.edu> X-Vms-To: TARIQAS Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Wisconsin sunset Parhelion blue cone floods into my faint heart Noor Grey ice at the curb Sliding on hard mounds of snow Boots dodging puddles Saki Zenzaki Great Michigan Lake Transformed, window panes crack, slide Stilled waves pause and wait Holley Lantz While all else see ice I sit under a blue sky With sun blazing down Mikail Davenport Cool grey town of love Yesterday cold dark wet sky Stopped to wash us Jamasp Today a bright sun Drying yesterdays raindrops Life is indeed great Tansen-Muni Wisconsin sunset A dream of bygone summer Warm winds are blowing Abi'l-Khayr Warm winds are blowing Somewhere on the earth always Every moment, even now Cynthia Spider sky with clouds Silver bands of sun's last light Chill winds shake my soul Hadi Louisiana Agadir, Ile de Gerba Mackie Belighted Divans From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu Jan 18 19:12:50 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA22166; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 08:44:09 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id OAA09584; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 14:12:59 -0500 Received: from dns1.uga.edu by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id OAA09553; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 14:12:53 -0500 Received: from cacimbo.ggy.uga.edu (cacimbo.ggy.uga.edu [128.192.40.157]) by dns1.uga.edu (8.7.1/8.7.1) with ESMTP id OAA09354 for ; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 14:12:52 -0500 Received: (from btaylor@localhost) by cacimbo.ggy.uga.edu (8.6.10/8.6.10) id OAA11622; Thu, 18 Jan 1996 14:12:51 -0500 Date: Thu, 18 Jan 1996 14:12:50 -0500 (EST) From: "B. Taylor" X-Sender: btaylor@cacimbo To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Ramadhan, Qur'an, and travel/wandering in Islam In-Reply-To: <199601180634.NAA14366@mucc.mahidol.ac.th> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: On Thu, 18 Jan 1996, iljas baker wrote: > It will soon be Ramadhan, It starts January 22 (solar calendar), correct? Although I am not "officially" a Muslim, I'm going to try it. If any one has words of advice on the fast, my ears/eyes are open. Thank you to those that recommended Shaykh Chisti's Book of Sufi Healing. The diagrams and explanations on salat and dhikr are just what I was looking for. I would also be interested in hearing of other's favorite english translations of the Qur'an. Recently, I've been reading _The Glorious Qur'an_ by Pickthall. The translation by Yusef Ali that was discussed in previous messages sounds interesting. Within the next month and a half, I hope to start learning Arabic in order to read the original text. At the same time, I'm planning on extended traveling/living/wandering somewhere in the Islamic "world." At this moment, Morocco seems to be the best place to start, but I am open to suggestions. Since I have recently graduated, there is nothing to keep from an "extended" stay other than finances. So if any one has suggestions on what countries may provide an opportunity to earn some money (tutoring english, odd jobs) to pay for my base living expenses, even just trading work for room and board, I welcome them. I'll be traveling light and as cheaply as possible (around US$10/day hopefully). My current interests point me towards Morocco (i've studied french), Turkey (and learn turkish), or Iran (and learn farsi), but my heart is open to any destination. Also, any contacts with tariqas, sufis, teachers, or kind people who wouldn't mind spending a few hours with a wide-eyed American would be greatly apprieciated. The thought of this adventure is both exciting and scary, but I feel that I must dive into the ocean to learn how to swim. Thank you. -brad From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri Jan 19 17:01:00 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA15003; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 12:56:11 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id MAA27866; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 12:01:29 -0500 Received: from island.amtsgi.bc.ca by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id MAA27815; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 12:01:20 -0500 Received: from Owl.islandnet.com by island.amtsgi.bc.ca with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0tdKBf-0005ZvC; Fri, 19 Jan 96 09:01 PST Message-Id: Date: Fri, 19 Jan 96 09:01 PST X-Sender: dynamics@islandnet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@facteur.std.com From: dynamics@islandnet.com (Jabreil Hanafi) Subject: Re: submission Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: >A diffrent proposal!> > >> because of this that when a seeker approaches a true saint he >> may begin to burn from embarassment. We have been truly priveleged to stand in front of saints and then, afterwards in a dream or perhaps even directly we have each burned as you say with emabressment. Either that or have been thrown so far off center that by the time we re-gained our balance the word balance had a new meaning. But what about this: Where is the teacher who takes this self and reviews the sins of seperation and lack which perhaps are the only sins there really are looking upon them with such compassion and gentleness whereby one looks up and finds them no longer repressive at all. Give me my Lord not the eyes of guilt Nor the eyes of those who live oppresed let me touch a drop of your forgiveness let me sink in the rich love of your Compassion Let me find the Prophet in my Heart as a direct experience so I can know what it means to wish great peace upon another and their family and with their eyes let me look upon this sin and than with love see it erased forever as we each step toward eternity, perfect untiy amd the flame of Truth we call Al Huk The Great Reality. Love, Your Brother Jabriel > > > ----------------------------------------- Jabriel Hanafi Dynamics Unlimited Suite 806 327 Maitland Victoria B.C. V9A 7G7 Voice (604) 384 6629 Fax (604) 380 9909 From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri Jan 19 17:44:27 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA15740; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 13:49:24 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id MAB03482; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 12:44:41 -0500 Received: from mail.sdsu.edu by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id MAA03475; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 12:44:36 -0500 Received: (from hall@localhost) by mail.sdsu.edu (8.7.1/8.6.11) id JAA17980; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 09:44:28 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 09:44:27 -0800 (PST) From: Linda elaine Hall To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: Salat: finger-gesture In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: To all the people who responded to my post...again I'm sorry! I came into school this am and had 45 messages on my mail! Not all from you, but many were! And Eudora wouldn't let me read any of them...wiped them all out! So, if anyone would care to "re-send" their stuff to me personally I would appreciate it! Jamilla From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri Jan 19 18:09:10 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA29276; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 14:11:26 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id NAA06302; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 13:09:20 -0500 Received: from mail.sdsu.edu by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id NAA06285; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 13:09:12 -0500 Received: from CBA_106.sdsu.edu (CBA_106.sdsu.edu [130.191.137.73]) by mail.sdsu.edu (8.7.1/8.6.11) with SMTP id KAA22056 for ; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 10:09:10 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 10:09:10 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <199601191809.KAA22056@mail.sdsu.edu> X-Sender: hall@mail.sdsu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@facteur.std.com From: hall@mail.sdsu.edu (Jamilla) Subject: Re: Welcome, Jamilla! X-Mailer: Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: This has to be quick...I have to be to work in 20 minutes...but thank you...I know I screwed up on my first post...a gross misunderstanding! Hey...I e-mailed you from the alt-sufi group before. Jamilla > >On Wed, 17 Jan 1996, Linda elaine Hall wrote: > >> WOW! This is the first post I've received, for I just subscribed this >> morning! WOW! >[...] >> Jamilla> > >Jamilla, > >Welcome to the list !! :) > >Wassalam, > >Farid-ud-dien > >(Fred Rice) > > > From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri Jan 19 19:07:02 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA24891; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 14:54:36 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id OAA13432; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 14:07:12 -0500 Received: from mail2.sas.upenn.edu by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id OAA13413; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 14:07:06 -0500 Received: (from lowensch@localhost) by mail2.sas.upenn.edu (8.7.3/SAS 8.05) id OAA26994; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 14:07:02 -0500 (EST) From: lowensch@sas.upenn.edu (Alan Lowenschuss) Posted-Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 14:07:02 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199601191907.OAA26994@mail2.sas.upenn.edu> Subject: For the Love of Creation (fwd) To: DHufford@psuhmc.hmc.psu.edu, rabjeff@echonyc.com, tariqas@facteur.std.com, js-grads-owner@ccat.sas.upenn.edu, owner-mail-havurah@shamash.nysernet.org Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 14:07:02 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23-upenn3.1] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: FOR THE LOVE OF CREATION! On Sunday, January 28th from 1:30 p.m. - 4:30 p.m. there will be an interfaith conference on ecology entitled "For the Love of Creation: Religios Perspectives on the Environment" held in the University of Pennsylvania's Houston Hall. Featured speakers include: Rabbi Arthur Waskow, Reverend Hal Taussig, and Imam Hakim Amir who will speak with us about how their respective religions understand the natural world, and why the present "environmental crisis" is at root a moral and religious problem. Student moderator: Afsaan Saleem All are welcome!! Please come! Come to help make a diffence! Come, come, for the love of creation, come. Time: 1:30-4:30 pm Date: Sunday, January 28th Place: Ben Franklin Room, Houston Hall, University of Pennsylvania About our speakers: Rabbi Arthur Waskow is the director of the Shalom Center, a division of ALEPH, the Alliance for Jewish Renewal. The Shalom center focuses on Jewish thought and practice to protect and heal the earth. He is the author of 12 books including "Down to Earth Judaism," "Seasons of our Joy," "Godwrestling," and "Godwrestling Round 2." Hal Taussig is the Minister at the Ch estnut Hill United Methodist Church and the founder of the Center for the Celebration of Creation. He is the co-author of several books, including "Wisdom's Feast and Sophia: The Future of Feminist Spirituality." He has lectured extensively on feminist, liberation, and ecological theologies. Imam Hakim Amir, Imam of the Masjibulleh Mosque in North Philadelphia, works for the Environmental Protection Agency, as do several other members of the Masjibulleh Mosque. FOR MORE INFORMATION contact: Alan Lowenschuss Home: (215) 387-0231 Work: (215) 898-1597 e-mail: lowensch@sas.upenn.edu > > > > We look forward to seeing you at the conference! From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri Jan 19 20:14:34 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA28868; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 16:31:34 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id PAA00380; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 15:14:39 -0500 Received: from mail06.mail.aol.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id PAA00368; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 15:14:37 -0500 From: JHulvey@aol.com Received: by mail06.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id PAA20659 for tariqas@europe.std.com; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 15:14:34 -0500 Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 15:14:34 -0500 Message-Id: <960119151433_201281778@mail06.mail.aol.com> To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Cc: JHulvey@aol.com Subject: Re: submission Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Here's two small attempts to add to the possible readings of "He who knows himself knows his God": That the more we know ourselves, truly know that is, as apart from imaginings, such as that we are "compassionate" when we're, say, conditioned, the more transparent we become; that is the less there is of us the more God can shine through. To say this a different way, and give it a slightly different slant, the more we know ourselves the more we see how little of what we consider our "self" actually exists. Could the goal of knowing ourself be to discover that all there is worth knowing in us is God? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---------------------- I seem to repeat myself on this list, and so apologize...but remember Rumi's offering (which I so looseley paraphrase here) about how God makes us at one time understand, at another, not? This is related in my mind to "He who knows himself knows his God" in that perhaps our shame at not understanding etc. is a form of pride.; and maybe what is called for is to look steadily at that lack of understanding as a manifestation of God's will. Not to excuse it (and its possible manifestations) or revel in it, but just to note it, to take a good look at it.* Isn't this how we get to know anything? *Maybe even be grateful for it...but how much harder it is to be grateful for lack of understanding than for provision of understanding. Which obliquely suggest a third possible reading of the line...When one begins to know oneself, one realizes how incomprehensible one is....how much more unknowable is God! I'll stop rambling now..... Julie From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sat Jan 20 04:24:29 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA04387; Sat, 20 Jan 1996 00:27:10 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id XAA21820; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 23:26:05 -0500 Received: from epix.net by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id XAA21807; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 23:26:00 -0500 Received: from .epix.net (lwbyppp53.epix.net [199.224.69.53]) by epix.net (8.7.1/8.7) with SMTP id XAA12821 for ; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 23:24:42 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199601200424.XAA12821@epix.net> From: sarmad@epix.net (James Brody) To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: Renga + 1 Date: Sat, 20 Jan 1996 04:24:29 GMT References: <199601190132.RAA04919@julie.teleport.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent .99b.112 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: On Thu, 18 Jan 1996 17:32:47 -0800 (PST), you wrote: >> >> >> Wisconsin sunset >> Parhelion blue cone floods >> into my faint heart Noor >> >> Grey ice at the curb >> Sliding on hard mounds of snow >> Boots dodging puddles Saki Zenzaki >> >> Great Michigan Lake >> Transformed, window panes crack, slide >> Stilled waves pause and wait Holley Lantz >> >> While all else see ice >> I sit under a blue sky >> With sun blazing down Mikail Davenport >> >> >> Cool grey town of love >> Yesterday cold dark wet sky >> Stopped to wash us Jamasp >> >> >> >> Today a bright sun >> Drying yesterdays raindrops >> Life is indeed great Tansen-Muni >> >> Wisconsin sunset >> A dream of bygone summer >> Warm winds are blowing Abi'l-Khayr >> >> Warm winds are blowing >> Somewhere on the earth always >> Every moment, even now Cynthia >> >> >> Spider sky with clouds >> Silver bands of sun's last light >> Chill winds shake my soul Hadi >> >> Louisiana >> Agadir, Ile de Gerba Mackie >> Belighted Divans >> > A heron's song > Disappearing > Across the silent Gulf Abdul Mustafa > Taste of Light Snowy sound of Jasmin One Sense inhabits each knowing Abraham Sarmad From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sat Jan 20 07:47:29 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA25768; Sat, 20 Jan 1996 03:38:40 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id CAA02598; Sat, 20 Jan 1996 02:47:34 -0500 Received: from desiree.teleport.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id CAA02593; Sat, 20 Jan 1996 02:47:32 -0500 Received: from kelly.teleport.com (bergner@kelly.teleport.com [192.108.254.10]) by desiree.teleport.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id XAA07007 for ; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 23:47:31 -0800 From: Paul Bergner Received: (bergner@localhost) by kelly.teleport.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id XAA06935 for tariqas@facteur.std.com; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 23:47:30 -0800 Message-Id: <199601200747.XAA06935@kelly.teleport.com> Subject: Re: Renga + 1 + 1 + 1 To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 23:47:29 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <199601200424.XAA12821@epix.net> from "James Brody" at Jan 20, 96 04:24:29 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1576 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: > > On Thu, 18 Jan 1996 17:32:47 -0800 (PST), you wrote: > > >> > >> > >> Wisconsin sunset > >> Parhelion blue cone floods > >> into my faint heart Noor > >> > >> Grey ice at the curb > >> Sliding on hard mounds of snow > >> Boots dodging puddles Saki Zenzaki > >> > >> Great Michigan Lake > >> Transformed, window panes crack, slide > >> Stilled waves pause and wait Holley Lantz > >> > >> While all else see ice > >> I sit under a blue sky > >> With sun blazing down Mikail Davenport > >> > >> > >> Cool grey town of love > >> Yesterday cold dark wet sky > >> Stopped to wash us Jamasp > >> > >> > >> > >> Today a bright sun > >> Drying yesterdays raindrops > >> Life is indeed great Tansen-Muni > >> > >> Wisconsin sunset > >> A dream of bygone summer > >> Warm winds are blowing Abi'l-Khayr > >> > >> Warm winds are blowing > >> Somewhere on the earth always > >> Every moment, even now Cynthia > >> > >> > >> Spider sky with clouds > >> Silver bands of sun's last light > >> Chill winds shake my soul Hadi > >> > >> Louisiana > >> Agadir, Ile de Gerba Mackie > >> Belighted Divans > >> > > A heron's song > > Disappearing > > Across the silent Gulf Abdul Mustafa > > > Taste of Light > Snowy sound of Jasmin > One Sense inhabits each knowing Abraham Sarmad > Sudden Mt. Hood fog one soft step no sound Abdul Mustafa From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri Jan 19 17:12:00 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA00737; Sat, 20 Jan 1996 04:08:02 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id DAA03353; Sat, 20 Jan 1996 03:13:26 -0500 Received: from relay2.UU.NET by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id DAA03347; Sat, 20 Jan 1996 03:13:24 -0500 Received: from island.amtsgi.bc.ca by relay2.UU.NET with SMTP id QQzzfy03609; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 16:32:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from Owl.islandnet.com by island.amtsgi.bc.ca with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0tdKMw-0005aWC; Fri, 19 Jan 96 09:12 PST Message-Id: Date: Fri, 19 Jan 96 09:12 PST X-Sender: dynamics@islandnet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@facteur.std.com From: dynamics@islandnet.com (Jabreil Hanafi) Subject: Re: Ramadhan, Qur'an, and travel/wandering in Islam Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: >The thought of this adventure is both exciting and scary, but I feel >that I must dive into the ocean to learn how to swim. > My Dear Brad I was so very moved by the notion of your splendid new journey God Bless You my friend all my best wishes go with you - may you learn al you during your fast - may you find yourslef closer and closer to Truth - May you feel Allah in you heart - or as close to your being as that which call itself Allah is professed to be - love to you - joy to you - I kiss your breath and your heart. Love Your Brother Jabriel. ----------------------------------------- Jabriel Hanafi Dynamics Unlimited Suite 806 327 Maitland Victoria B.C. V9A 7G7 Voice (604) 384 6629 Fax (604) 380 9909 From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri Jan 19 19:08:59 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA01784; Sat, 20 Jan 1996 22:06:27 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id OAA14010; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 14:10:21 -0500 Received: from nova.unix.portal.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id OAA14001; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 14:10:18 -0500 Received: from jobe.shell.portal.com (jobe.shell.portal.com [156.151.3.4]) by nova.unix.portal.com (8.6.11/8.6.5) with ESMTP id LAA05618 for ; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 11:09:01 -0800 Received: (tyagi@localhost) by jobe.shell.portal.com (8.6.11/8.6.5) id LAA18105 for tariqas@facteur.std.com; Fri, 19 Jan 1996 11:09:00 -0800 Message-Id: <199601191909.LAA18105@jobe.shell.portal.com> Subject: Re: Sufism and Religions To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Date: Fri, 19 Jan 1996 11:08:59 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <2.2.32.19960119022600.002fc578@worldweb.net> from "James McCaig" at Jan 18, 96 09:26:00 pm From: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (Haramullah) Orientation: House of Kaos, St. Joseph, Kali Fornika, US -- Kali Yuga X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1812 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: 49960119 Peace be with you, my kin. Haramullah: |>The story I was told about Eve was that she gave in to temptation. I didn't |>think that Sufis did that. James McCaig : |Show me a Sufi who claims to have never succumbed to temptation; I will |show you a teller of tales to rival Jalaludin Rumi. No Sufi would say this. There must be a variation of accomplishment ascribed to Sufis, at times, since I have heard them utilized as teaching devices in the emulation of the virtues of islam, comparable to saints in some ways. |No one could correct you here. What you believe, I believe. Becoming a |Sufi is a process of rediscovery, some think. It could be seen as a process |of peeling the onion, returning to the inner core. Who could define for |another the straight path? Is your path my path? I really appreciate your openness and dedication to self-discovery. It is part of why I associate a process of gnosis with sufism. |Hazrat Inayat Khan said "There is a saying of the Prophet, ""every soul is |born a believer, and it is others that make the soul an unbeliever"". |I choose experience. Why not establish a personal relationship with the God |within us all and listen to the inner voice of guidance, follow our |conscience and the golden rule? Such is indeed the righteous path as I understand it. |...a chance for those who come to God another way. ... Of course. I am taught there are a myriad approaches within islam. |If we are all climbing the mountain to the One God, then don't we |come together at the top, no matter the path? Yes, but if some are busy tunnelling underneath or climbing another mountain then this togetherness will not take place. Your words inspire me, brother. Peace be upon you. Haramullah tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sun Jan 21 07:05:48 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA17932; Sun, 21 Jan 1996 02:33:50 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id CAA05101; Sun, 21 Jan 1996 02:11:35 -0500 Received: from soho.ios.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id CAA05096; Sun, 21 Jan 1996 02:11:32 -0500 Received: from LOCALNAME (ppp-46.ts-9.nyc.idt.net [206.20.119.46]) by soho.ios.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) with SMTP id CAA04634 for ; Sun, 21 Jan 1996 02:05:48 -0500 Date: Sun, 21 Jan 1996 02:05:48 -0500 Message-Id: <199601210705.CAA04634@soho.ios.com> X-Sender: kaleema@198.4.75.47 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@facteur.std.com From: "K.Ahmad" Subject: Happy Ramadan! Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: With the approaching of Ramadan, I thought I might pass on some of the writings of Iqbal on obedience and self control. Obedience SERVICE and toil are traits of the camel, Patience and preseverance are ways of the camel. Noiselessy he steps along the sandy track, He is the ship of those who voyge in the desert. Every thicket knows the print of his foot: He eats seldom, sleeps little, and is injured to toil. He carries rider, baggage, and litter: He trots on and on to the journey's end, Rejoicing in his speed, More patient in travel than his rider, Thou, too, do not refuse the burden of Duty: So wilt thou enjoy the best dwelling-place, which is with God. Endeavour to obey, O heedless one! Liberty is the fruit of compulsion. By obedience the man of no worth is made worthy; By disobedience his fire is turned to ashes. Whoso would master the sun and stars, Let him make himself a prisoner of Law! The air becomes fragrant when it is imprisoned in the flower-bud; The perfume become musk when it is confined in the navel of the musk-deer. The star moves towards its goal With head bowed in surrender to a law. The grass springs up in obedience to the law of growth: When it abandons that, it is trodden underfoot. To burn unceasingly is the law of the tulip. And so the blood leaps in its veins. Drops of water become a sea by the law of union, And grains of sand become a Sahara. Since Law makes everything strong within, Why dost thou neglect this source of strength? O thou that art emancipated from the old custom.(The religious law of Islam) Adorn thy feet once more with the same fine silver chain! Do not complain of the hardness of the law, Do not trangress the statutes of Muhammad! Self-Control Thy soul cares only for itself, like the camel: It is self-conceited, self-governed, and self-willed. Be a man, get its halter into thine hand, That thou mayst become a pearl albeit thou art a potter's vessel. He that does not command himself Becomes a receiver of commands from others. When they moulded thee of clay, Love and fear were mingled in thy making: Fear of this world and of the world to come, fear of death. Fear of all the pains of earthhand heaven. Love of riches and power, love of country, Love of self and kindered and wife. Man, in whom clay is mixed with water, is fond of ease, Devoted to wickedness and enamoured of evil. So long as thou hold'st the staff of "There is no God but He," Thou wilt break every spell of fear. One to whom God is as the soul in his body, His neck is not bowed before vanity. Fear finds no way into his bosom, His heart is afraid of none but Allah. Who so dwells in the world of negation. (denies every object of worship except Allah) Is freed from the bonds of wife and child. He withdraws his gaze from all except God, And lays the knife to the throat of his son.(Ibrahim and Ishmael) Though single, he is like a host in onset: Life is cheaper in his eyes than wind. The profession of Faith is the shell, and prayer is the pearl within it: The Muslim's heart deems prayer a lesser pilgrimage. (Umra to Hajj) In the Muslim's hand prayer is like a dagger. Killing sin and fowardness and wrong. Fasting makes an assault upon hunger and thirst. And breaches the citadel of sensauality. The pilgrimage enlightens the soul of the Faithful: It teaches separation from one's home and destroys attachment to one's native land; It is an act of devotion in which all feel themselves to be one, It binds together the leaves of the book of religion, Almsgiving causes love of riches to pass away And makes equality familiar; It fortifies the heart with righteousness, It increases wealth and diminishes fondness for wealth. All this is a means of strengthening thee: Thou art impregnable, if thy Islam be strong. Draw might from the litany "O Almighty One!' That thou mayst ride the camel of thy body.(overcome the lusts of the flesh) From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sun Jan 21 15:04:30 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA17107; Sun, 21 Jan 1996 10:42:24 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id KAA24077; Sun, 21 Jan 1996 10:06:25 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id KAA24072; Sun, 21 Jan 1996 10:06:23 -0500 Received: from UNiX.asb.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA06691; Sun, 21 Jan 1996 10:01:46 -0500 Received: from asb35 (sls25.asb.com [165.254.128.35]) by UNiX.asb.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA04716; Sun, 21 Jan 1996 10:04:30 -0500 Date: Sun, 21 Jan 1996 10:04:30 -0500 Message-Id: <199601211504.KAA04716@UNiX.asb.com> X-Sender: fhaddad@unix.asb.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@world.std.com From: fhaddad@unix.asb.com (Fouad Haddad) Subject: Welcoming Ramadan Cc: soc-religion-islam@telerama.lm.com X-Mailer: Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: ISTIQBALU SHAHRI RAMADAN (Welcoming the Month of Ramadan) ========================================================= Anas said that when the month of Ramadan came the Prophet (s) said: "Glory to God! What are you facing now! What is coming ahead!" `Umar ibn al-Khattab said: "My father's life for you, and my mother's! O Prophet of God, what is it? Did you receive revelation, or is an enemy coming?" He replied: "No, but the month of Ramadan has come, in which God forgives all the people of this Community." He also said: "If God's servants knew what Ramadan was, they would have wished it lasted for the whole year." The month of Ramadan in which was revealed the Qur'an is a time of tremendous blessings and the gate of repentance and return to God. The Prophet (s) also said: "The month of Ramadan has come to you, a blessed month for the duration of which God has prescribed fasting for you. In it the gates of the heaven are open and the gates of Gehenna are shut." Another version adds: "And devils are put in chains." The Prophet (s) named fasting "the poor-tax of the body" (zakat al-jasad) and he named it "a paradise" (al-siyamu janna) and also "half of restraint" (al-sabru nisfu al-sawm), and he named restraint "pure light" (al-sabru diya'). When asked who were the wanderers in the verse: "Those that turn to God in repentance; that serve Him, and praise Him; *that wander in devotion to His cause* (al-sa'ihun); that bow down and prostrate themselves in prayer; that enjoin good and forbid evil; and observe the limits set by God -- these do rejoice! So proclaim the glad tidings to the believers." (9:112) The Prophet (s) said: "The wanderers in the cause of God are those who fast" (hum al-sa'imun). Thus a true dervish fasts, and many of the great shaykhs said that the path consists in hunger. The Prophet (s) also said: "There is no conceit in fasting." The month of Ramadan is a tremendous witness on the Day of the judgment, and the Prophet (s) said: "I declare myself clear of them whose detractor is Ramadan." It brings immense rewards as he said: "Those who fast the month of Ramadan believing (in God and his Messenger) and seeking a reward, all their past sins are forgiven." Another version adds: "and pray (the voluntary night-prayer) in it" and in the end: "he comes out of his sins as on the day his mother gave birth to him." Every good deed in Ramadan carries more weight that at any other time, particularly giving. Ibn `Abbas said: "The Prophet (s) was the most generous of people, and he was at his most generous in Ramadan," and when Anas asked "What is the best charity for the sake of God (sadaqa)?" the Prophet replied: "A gift in Ramadan (sadaqatun fi ramadan)." According to the Companion `Ubada ibn al-Samit the Prophet (s) used to say upon entering this month: "Allahumma sallimni li ramadana wa sallim ramadana wa sallimhu minni mutaqabbilan." "O God, greet and save me for Ramadan; greet and save Ramadan; greet and save Ramadan on my behalf, and grant me its acceptance." The following is an address of welcome recited by the shaykhs of the Naqshbandi-Haqqani Sufi order upon entering Ramadan, transliterated and translated by permission of Shaykh Hisham Kabbani. May God accept the intention of those who fast this month, and forgive us for its sake. May God place us in the best company of His creation in this month, and clean us, supply us, and forgive us for their sake. Transliteration: a`udhu billahi min al-shaytan al-rajim bismillah al-rahman al-rahim marhaban ahlan wa sahlan ya shahra ramadan marhaban ahlan wa sahlan ya shahr al-qur'an marhaban ahlan wa sahlan ya shahr al-nur marhaban ahlan wa sahlan ya shahr al-ijtima` marhaban ahlan wa sahlan ya shahr al-fuqara' marhaban ahlan wa sahlan ya shahr al-tawbati wa al-ruju` marhaban ahlan wa sahlan ya shahr al-du`a'i wa al-wuquf marhaban ahlan wa sahlan ya shahr al-fuqara'i wa al-du`afa' marhaban ahlan wa sahlan ya shahr al-ihsan marhaban ahlan wa sahlan ya shahr al-`usat marhaban ahlan wa sahlan ya shahr al-fawzi wa al-falah marhaban ahlan wa sahlan ya shahr al-munajati wa al-tasbih marhaban ahlan wa sahlan ya shahr al-da`wati wa al-irshad marhaban ahlan wa sahlan ya shahr al-tarawiha wa al-qiyam marhaban ahlan wa sahlan ya shahr al-masabiha wa al-qanadil marhaban ahlan wa sahlan ya shahr al-khaza'ini wa al-kunuz marhaban ahlan wa sahlan ya shahr al-mala'ikati wa al-salam marhaban ahlan wa sahlan ya shahr al-iftari wa al-suhur marhaban ahlan wa sahlan ya shahr al-mutheerati wa al-asabb marhaban ahlan wa sahlan ya shahr al-du`afa' marhaban ahlan wa sahlan ya shahr al-ajri wa al-jaza' marhaban ahlan wa sahlan ya shahr al-sabri wa al-siyam marhaban ahlan wa sahlan ya shahr al-sa`ada marhaban ahlan wa sahlan ya shahr al-miftah marhaban ahlan wa sahlan ya shahr al-wasli wa al-wisal marhaban ahlan wa sahlan ya shahr al-wadadi wa al-mahabba marhaban ahlan wa sahlan ya sayyid al-shuhur lam na`rif qadraka wa lam nahfaz hurmataka ya shahr al-ghufran fa ardi `anna wa la tashku minna ila al-rahman wa kun shahidan lana bi al-fadli wa al-ihsan Translation: I seek refuge in God from the accursed satan In the name of God the Merciful the Beneficent Greetings and welcome O month of Ramadan Greetings and welcome O month of the Qur'an Greetings and welcome O month of light Greetings and welcome O month of gathering Greetings and welcome O month of the poor Greetings and welcome O month of repentence and return Greetings and welcome O month of invocation and standing in supplication Greetings and welcome O month of the poor and the weak Greetings and welcome O month of doing one's best Greetings and welcome O month of the sinners Greetings and welcome O month of victory and success Greetings and welcome O month of intimate discourse and glorification Greetings and welcome O month of the call and the guidance Greetings and welcome O month of rest-between-prayers and standing to pray Greetings and welcome O month of lanterns and lights Greetings and welcome O month of coffers and treasures Greetings and welcome O month of angels and safety Greetings and welcome O month of breaking fast and eating before the fast Greetings and welcome O month of tilling and of deafness to sin Greetings and welcome O month of the weak Greetings and welcome O month of repayment and reward Greetings and welcome O month of fast and patience Greetings and welcome O month of felicity Greetings and welcome O month of the key Greetings and welcome O month of union and reunion Greetings and welcome O month of friendship and love Greetings and welcome O master of all months We have not treated you according to your immense price Nor truly sanctified you, O month of forgiveness, But be pleased with us nevertheless, do not blame us before the Merciful, And testify for us with grace and goodness! Blessings and Peace on the Prophet, his Family, and his Companions Fouad Haddad Naqshbandi-Haqqani Foundation From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sun Jan 21 21:37:34 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA12485; Sun, 21 Jan 1996 17:22:06 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id QAA24557; Sun, 21 Jan 1996 16:33:52 -0500 Received: from UNiX.asb.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id QAA24552; Sun, 21 Jan 1996 16:33:49 -0500 Received: from asb12 (sls2.asb.com [165.254.128.12]) by UNiX.asb.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA04901 for ; Sun, 21 Jan 1996 16:37:34 -0500 Date: Sun, 21 Jan 1996 16:37:34 -0500 Message-Id: <199601212137.QAA04901@UNiX.asb.com> X-Sender: fhaddad@unix.asb.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@facteur.std.com From: fhaddad@unix.asb.com (Fouad Haddad) Subject: Re: mr. Rose on saint worship X-Mailer: Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Thank you, Mackie, for your message on the difference between saint- veneration and saint-worship. Peter Brown made it by choosing "cult" and avoiding "worship." Andre Vauchez the French medievalist also distinguishes veneration from worship. Others including "laymen" clearly do not. The term "saint-worship" in Western literature about Islam is favored by orientalists who belong to the latter category: they hold undifferentiated views on the Christian doctrine regarding saints and then turn and apply them to Islam because that is the extent to which they understand it in both religions. Regarding "saint-worship" there is also an unwitting (?) collusion of orientalists with the Wahhabi sect and its pre-Wahhabi forerunners within Islam, who held very similar positions and gave orientalists the opportunity to substantiate the view that "sufism fostered saint- worship in Islam" with school-specific, vocal Islamic sources. They conveniently ignored the far more common but less sharply profiled (therefore literarily less attractive) view in Islam that sufism by and large was always conservative at heart, revolutionary in its expressions, and able to engage other religions in spiritual discourse all at one and the same time. Most importantly here, that it was and is overwhelmingly "orthodox" in its doctrine. A superb confirmation of this Wahhabi/orientalist complicity is that you will find the founder of Wahhabism (Muhammad ibn `Abd al-Wahhab 1703- 1792) characterized as a heretic by a 19th-c. majority and a 20th-c. handful of traditional Muslim scholars, but as a "reformer who advocated a return to pure Islamic origins" by Wahhabi propagandists and... the Encyclopedia of Islam, which is the foremost literary monument of orientalism. You also wrote: > How do we explain accepting changes and differences? How do we >explain that The Face of The Friend Whom we seek is never lost, despite >the changes and differeences that develop? Or is it? My master Shaykh Hisham Kabbani said "it is veiled with 70,000 veils of light and 70,000 veils of darkness." This word suggests oceans and oceans of meanings from which one drop of what the masters of the sufi path have extracted would suffice for our drowning. Still, it is "veiled" -- and veiled -- and veiled -- and veiled -- but not "lost." Abi al-Khayr asked: "Is it not Allah we worship when we bow to his friends? How could it be otherwise?" Of course he is right: how indeed can it be otherwise when God said: "And We am nearer to him than his jugular vein." Those who say it is otherwise are only speaking from behind the Nth veil. These blind ones destroyed the graves of saints in Mecca and Madina and now, two centuries later, I hear they are doing it again in Central Asia. But these graves light the world from inside, and they cannot destroy that light in a thousand years! Sincerely, Fouad Haddad Naqshbandi-Haqqani Foundation P.s. Note, dear Abi al-Khayr and Habib N., that Adam asked for forgiveness not "in the name of Muhammed" but "for the sake of (bi haqq) Muhammad." Not that the name is not vital. However, the phrase "in the name of" is spoken exclusively with reference to God. From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sun Jan 21 21:35:15 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA19026; Sun, 21 Jan 1996 17:25:41 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id QAA25301; Sun, 21 Jan 1996 16:41:34 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id QAA25294; Sun, 21 Jan 1996 16:41:31 -0500 Received: from vx23.cc.monash.edu.au by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA08032; Sun, 21 Jan 1996 16:35:23 -0500 Received: from vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au by vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au (PMDF V5.0-4 #8933) id <01I0AZ6P889C9ENHRB@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au> for tariqas@world.std.com; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 08:35:15 +1100 Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1996 08:35:15 +1100 From: D A Rice Subject: A Ramadan Story To: tariqas@world.std.com Message-Id: <01I0AZ6P8C0Y9ENHRB@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au> X-Vms-To: IN%"tariqas@world.std.com" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: This is a story told to me a few years ago, by the Imam of a group of mostly Turkish (non-Sufi) brothers I used to learn tajweed (correct pronunciation of the Qur'an) with. I hope you enjoy it :) A Ramadan Story Once, there was a scholar who was travelling through some very rural and remote areas. He then came across a small, remote village. He spent the night there, and the villagers welcomed him and made him feel very comfortable. He asked about them, and they said they were Muslims, but in fact they knew practically nothing about Islam. So the scholar set to teaching them about Islam. He taught them the shahada and its meaning, how to pray, giving zakat, etc. Before he left, he taught them about Ramadan: "When Ramadan comes, you won't be able to eat, drink, smoke, or have sex from dawn until dusk!" With that, he left. A few months later, the scholar returned to this village. To his surprise, just outside the village he saw all the village men standing, holding their spears and their swords, ready to defend themselves. "What is happening?" asked the scholar of them. "We are waiting for Ramadan!" they said. :) Salam, and Ramadan Mubarak! Farid ud-Dien Rice From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sun Jan 21 21:57:30 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA28642; Sun, 21 Jan 1996 17:42:10 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id RAA27226; Sun, 21 Jan 1996 17:01:29 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id RAA27211; Sun, 21 Jan 1996 17:01:24 -0500 Received: from vx23.cc.monash.edu.au by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA16176; Sun, 21 Jan 1996 16:57:35 -0500 Received: from vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au by vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au (PMDF V5.0-4 #8933) id <01I0B00B8IQS9ENCIG@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au> for tariqas@world.std.com; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 08:57:30 +1100 Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1996 08:57:30 +1100 From: D A Rice Subject: A Rumi poem on fasting To: tariqas@world.std.com Message-Id: <01I0B00B8JOM9ENCIG@vaxc.cc.monash.edu.au> X-Vms-To: IN%"tariqas@world.std.com" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: A Rumi poem on fasting.... What hidden sweetness is found in this empty stomach! Man is like a lute, neither more nor less. When the lute's stomach is full, it cannot lament, whether high or low. If your brain and stomach burn from fasting, their fire will draw constant lamentation from your breast. Through that fire you will burn a thousand veils at every instant - you will ascend a thousand degrees on the Way and in your aspiration. Keep your stomach empty! Lament like a flute and tell your need to God! Keep you stomach empty and speak of the mysteries like a reed! If you keep your stomach full, it will bring Satan to you at the Resurrection instead of your intellect - an idol instead of the Kaaba. When you fast, good character traits gather round you like servants, slaves, and retinue. Continue your fasting, for it is Solomon's seal: give not the seal to the devil, disrupt not your kingdom. And if your kingdom and army should flee from you, your army will return, so raise the banner! The Spread Table has come from heaven to those who fast, for Jesus son of Mary has called it down with his prayers. Await the Table of Generosity in your fast - the Table of Generosity is better than cabbage stew! (From Jalaluddin Rumi's Divani Shamsi Tabrizi, translated by W. C. Chittick, in "The Sufi Path of Love: The Spiritual Teachings of Rumi", pp.157-8.) From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sun Jan 21 23:14:27 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA20093; Sun, 21 Jan 1996 18:39:21 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id SAA03624; Sun, 21 Jan 1996 18:13:08 -0500 Received: from fastmail.worldweb.net by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id SAA03619; Sun, 21 Jan 1996 18:13:05 -0500 Received: from dns.worldweb.net (dns.worldweb.net [204.117.218.2]) by fastmail.worldweb.net (8.7.2/8.7.2) with SMTP id SAA24448 for ; Sun, 21 Jan 1996 18:20:52 -0500 (EST) Received: from JIM ([204.117.218.170]) by dns.worldweb.net with SMTP; Sun, 21 Jan 1996 19:28:15 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960121231427.002dbce4@worldweb.net> X-Sender: jmccaig@worldweb.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 21 Jan 1996 18:14:27 -0500 To: tariqas@facteur.std.com From: James McCaig Subject: Re: A Ramadan Story Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: At 08:35 AM 1/22/96 +1100, D A Rice wrote: > Dear Farid ud-Dien, We are keeping our eyes peeled for that Ramadan here in Reston, VA, too. We don't want him hanging about here. Warm regards, >"When Ramadan comes, you won't be able to eat, drink, smoke, or >have sex from dawn until dusk!" With that, he left. > >A few months later, the scholar returned to this village. To >his surprise, just outside the village he saw all the village men >standing, holding their spears and their swords, ready to defend >themselves. > >"What is happening?" asked the scholar of them. > >"We are waiting for Ramadan!" they said. > > >:) > >Salam, and Ramadan Mubarak! > >Farid ud-Dien Rice > > Maharaj James McCaig | Sufi Center of Washington Brotherhood/Sisterhood Representative | Keepers of Sufi Center Bookstore United States | http://guess.worldweb.net/sufi jmccaig@worldweb.net From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Mon Jan 22 17:31:05 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA21821; Sun, 21 Jan 1996 21:58:48 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id VAA21494; Sun, 21 Jan 1996 21:17:19 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id VAA21489; Sun, 21 Jan 1996 21:17:17 -0500 From: aorsellidickson@stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au Received: from eagle.ac.cowan.edu.au by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA29793; Sun, 21 Jan 1996 21:14:33 -0500 Received: from stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au (stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au [139.230.161.10]) by eagle.ac.cowan.edu.au (8.7.1/8.7.1) with SMTP id KAA12240 for ; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 10:12:52 +0800 Message-Id: <199601220212.KAA12240@eagle.ac.cowan.edu.au> X-Nvlenv-01Date-Posted: 22-Jan-1996 10:15:06 -0500; at STINGRAY.ac.cowan X-Nvlenv-Content-Subject: Rumi/Ilyas Baker X-Nvlenv-Mts-Message-Id: 3BA90331816C2979 X-Nvlenv-Notify-On-Read: allowed X-Nvlenv-Notify-On-Refusal: allowed X-Nvlipm-Non-Standard: SMF = 000Application-name: PMAIL To: tariqas%world.std.com@stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au Subject: Rumi/Ilyas Baker Date: 22 Jan 96 17:31:05 GMT X-Nvlipm-Non-Standard: SMF = 000X-NetWare-UIC: AORSELLIDICKSON Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Greetings to all On 12 January Ilyas Baker quotes a profound passage from mevlana Rumi asking for interpretations. Some very interesting comments have been made by Brad . I would like to address some of the issues from both these contributions. "The sciences are all paintings" It is worth investigating Rumi's aesthetic experience in order to unederstand the deep sense of this statement.In the Masnavi there is a beautiful teaching story calledThe Chinese and the Greek Artists ( Teachings of Rumi EH Whinfield Octagon Press p.51) In this story the Chinese and the Greeks disputed before the Sultan which of them were the best painters and the dispute is settled in typically sufi way, by demonstration and experience. The sultan gives each a house to be painted. The Chinese paint most elaboratedly and colourfully : "The Greeks...used no colours at all, but contented themselves with cleansing the walls of their house from all filth, and burnishing them till they were as clear and bright as the heavens" This of course refers to the practice of cleansing the nafs( house) from all impurities so that the heart may reflect divine Beauty itself ( the cleansing of the mirror of the heart). Not surprisingly the palm is carried off by the Greeks( sufis/ mystics) : " as all the colours of the other house were reflected on its walls with an endless variety of shades and hues". This passage offers two different perspectives to the issue of knowledge and 'science' here disguised as 'art'. Of course the link between art and science is form or pattern, the external embodiment of inner essence. In the sacred science of words , forms and colours correspond to' letters' and 'sounds': they are the carriers of divine energy as Power and Beauty, knowledge and love. In music and dance there is also a correspondence between the formal intellectual element of musical structure and the emotional colour of tone and pitch, and between the interplay of rhythm and melody ( incidentally I always thought melody to be the feminine side and rhythm the masculine, but a friend musician pointed out to me that it is the opposite). The sciences of words, sounds and forms (or icons), of philosophy, theology, poetry, music and art are all related to common universal principles, they are but facets and reflections of the same reality which discloses itself continuosly in infinitely different ways to receptive hearts and minds. Hence the apparent variety of ways, traditions, paths and tariqas, the waves and ripples of multiplicity within the sea of unity. I quote another passage from Rumi: " Many are they who have been captured by form who aimed at form, and found Allah" (Rumi, Masnavi) Is anybody conversant in Persian to tell me which is the word translated here as 'form'? Is it ? or what? It would be interesting to go deeper into it by understanding the etymology, but I know no Arabic nor Persian, only a little Latin... In another passage from Rumi we read of the tree of knowledge: " Very fine, very expansive, the very water of life from the circumfluent ocean. Thou hast run after FORM, o ill-informed one, wherefore thou lackest the fruit of the tree of SUBSTANCE. Sometimes it is named tree, sometimes sun, sometimes lake, and sometimes cloud, It is one, though it has thousand manifestations, tha names that fit it are countless... it has thousands of names, yet it is One, answering to all of His descriptions,. yet indescribable ..Pass over names and look to qualities, so that qualities may lead thee to essence! The differences of sects arise from His names, when they pierce to His Essence they find His peace.' p. 108 And in yet another passage on form: " Since all these forms are slaves of Him without form,... They exist only through Him that is without form... Verily the Absolute Agent is without form, form is only a tool in His hands. Sometimes this Formless One of His mercy shows His face to His forms from behind the veil of non-being, that every form may derive aid therefrom,- from its perfect beauty and power... p. 316 The relationship between art,(san'a) articraft (masnu) and artist also needs to be considered.In Chittick's Sufi Path of Knowledge p.320 I read a quote from Ibn al -Arabi: "How can the artifact know its artisan?. What the artifact demands from the artisan is only the form of the artisan's knowledge of it, not the form of his essence.You are the artifact of Your Creator. So your form corresponds to the form of His knowledge of you, and this is the case with every created thing" Now we can apply this noetically to "sciences" and "art" as well, since these are some of the ways in which creature responds to Allah, desire to be known. So unless these sciences and arts, based on form, imbue the spirit of direct experience, they remain lifeless and separated from the living sap. The Yonder, the realm of Unseen realities, the unknowable cloud ('ama) of divine essence(dhat) condenses itself into FORM (letters, sounds, icons...)because of the breath of divine Mercy ( the sap) which makes the rain overflow from the cloud and feed the tree of our mind-soul. Ars sine scientia nihil...scientia sine arte nihil (art without knowledge is nothing, but knowledge without art is also nothing...but if we take nothing as Buddhist no-thing? The union of beauty and knwledge leads from the realm of 'ex-isting' to the realm oft Being, which is neither existence nor non-existence, the Formless Silence which vibrates in the inner ear of the heart as music ... There is a lot more i would like to say /ask also about sema and music, but i will leave this to next time, I feel i have already abused too much of everybody's attention. Though, should anybody be particularly interested in pursuing the topic of spiritual music i am encouraging them to address me at the following address: I look forward to further comments on these issues, Rabia from Australia: aorsellidickson@stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Mon Jan 22 17:42:50 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA23397; Sun, 21 Jan 1996 22:02:31 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id VAA22931; Sun, 21 Jan 1996 21:32:34 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id VAA22926; Sun, 21 Jan 1996 21:32:32 -0500 From: aorsellidickson@stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au Received: from eagle.ac.cowan.edu.au by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA07830; Sun, 21 Jan 1996 21:25:15 -0500 Received: from stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au (stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au [139.230.161.10]) by eagle.ac.cowan.edu.au (8.7.1/8.7.1) with SMTP id KAA12048 for ; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 10:24:31 +0800 Message-Id: <199601220224.KAA12048@eagle.ac.cowan.edu.au> X-Nvlenv-01Date-Posted: 22-Jan-1996 10:26:53 -0500; at STINGRAY.ac.cowan X-Nvlenv-Content-Subject: Thomas/habib and understading X-Nvlenv-Mts-Message-Id: 7BAA0331816C2979 X-Nvlenv-Notify-On-Read: allowed X-Nvlenv-Notify-On-Refusal: allowed X-Nvlipm-Non-Standard: SMF = 000Application-name: PMAIL To: tariqas%world.std.com@stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au Subject: Thomas/habib and understading Date: 22 Jan 96 17:42:50 GMT X-Nvlipm-Non-Standard: SMF = 000X-NetWare-UIC: AORSELLIDICKSON Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: A > >Dear Thomas >if you allow me to say a word about the following question you addressed to Habib Rose: ************************* >However, I put some questions on mr Habib Rose's following statements: > >> For other people, saints may have a teaching function (offering models >> for behavior etc.) To truly understand these sorts of functions, you >> need to: >> 1. Be a Sufi >> 2. Be familar with the context in which they are occuring. > >> Until then, it may be useful to concentrate on our own spiritual path, >> before trying to "understand" (analyze) the paths of others. > >As for point 2) i fully agree, but i have my doubts on point 1): it sounds >that we never could learn from other people unless we become one >of them. In my discipline this is a methodological question with which i >don't want to bother you here, my dear readers. In my humble opinion, >however, it is very possible to understand other people's ways of living >and thinking...one has to do so with much respect, care and love... ++++++++++++++++++++++ I am only a very 'raw' dervish and therefore my opinion is only representing itself, not any teaching i received, it comes from my own intuition, so take it if it is of any value to you or discard it . The issue you raise here is about the nature of knowledge and understading. The nature of sufi 'knowldge'( or esoteric in any tradition) is quite different from scholarly knowledge, it is based on experience and state, not on information. One of the oragans/tools to process this knowledge in the mind is the 'intellect' (intelligere, to read through, within) in the medieval sense of the word(see F. Schuon on this), That is, illuminative intellect (illuminated by the light of spirit, quite different from what we call intellect/ intellectual today ( mainly to do with logic, discursive reason and thought). To know intellectually (in the modern sense of the word)is also quite different from "understanding" ( to stand under), just as knowledge is different from wisdom. Here i would disagree with Habib's equation UNDERSTANDING=ANALYSE Understading is quite different in nature and range of energy used from analysing (processing by comparing and synthesising) Understanding involves a qualitative leap, it involves internalising the essence, not the detail, of the matter, It also requires putting oneself openly, receptively and humbly 'under' a state that facilitates 'intuition' ,'insight ', and the sudden 'grasping' of the matter, often equated to 'seeing' (when we really understand something, do not we say: "I see!"? in-sight, vision within) Perhaps the word 'apprhension' may be used to indicate a different way of receiving/attuning to wisdom from the usual way of processing information. Words are of course very deceptive , ambiguous and limited in their use, especially in modern languages such as English, so it is not a matter of using certain terminology, but of trying to see what lies behind the words we use, being aware of all the cultural, language, emotional, personal connotations which can distort their meaning. Yet we may agree to use some terms, inadequate as they may be, once we try to find our common ground. In my limited experience there is a transmission of wisdom from heart to heart and spirit to spirit, qualitatively different from the usual processing of knowledge from mind to mind, one that cannot be easily expressed by words ( though words can convey by allusion, analogy and, metaphor some of the flavour and taste of this 'knowing'), a different apprehension which can only occur when our heart is open and our soul( nafs) reasonably free from the background noise of negativities, habitual, mechanic thoughts, 'Sufis' (or other names for beings who have done this work upon themselves to a high degree) can act as 'transmitters' of divine knowledge, patterns of meaning coming from the unseen, based on qualities, not on forms. We, the students, can 'attune' to these 'transmitters' (on the conditions specified before), but the source remains 'from yonder' (which is also within) In this sense i feel in my heart that Habib's remark is absolutely true. It is not a matter of opinion, but of taste. I have learnt a lot from dreams and contemplation of 'truths' expressed through feeling(not emotion!), music, 'presences', art, poetry, more than from any other source ( academic ) Not to say one cannot learn anything from books and discussion, but most of the real learning occurs through different pathways, evan at physiological level . Theta and alpha waves in the brain are connected with dreaming and meditation, rather than Beta\ ( associated with nornal state of the so called consciousness: better to call it state of awareness) The activity of the cerebellum/vs the cortex( rational thought;, the role of the solar plexus and of the hendocrynal system, especially the so called pineal gland, all these must be taken into consideration when looking at what is "thinking' and learning... it did not mean to be a lecture! Sorry for being carried away and rumbling, I am looking forward to further discussion on some of these matters. "O my Lord, increase me in knowledge!" Rabia (Annalisa) Aorsellidickson@ cowan.ecu.au > > From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Mon Jan 22 03:48:48 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA13512; Sun, 21 Jan 1996 22:51:28 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id WAA29787; Sun, 21 Jan 1996 22:51:27 -0500 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA12596; Sun, 21 Jan 1996 22:48:49 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id WAA29660; Sun, 21 Jan 1996 22:48:48 -0500 Date: Sun, 21 Jan 1996 22:48:48 -0500 Message-Id: <199601220348.WAA29660@europe.std.com> To: tariqas-approval@world.std.com From: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Subject: BOUNCE tariqas@world.std.com: Admin request Status: RO X-Status: >From habib@world.std.com Sun Jan 21 22:48:46 1996 Return-Path: Received: from eagle.ac.cowan.edu.au by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id WAA29655; Sun, 21 Jan 1996 22:48:37 -0500 From: aorsellidickson@stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au Received: from stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au (stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au [139.230.161.10]) by eagle.ac.cowan.edu.au (8.7.1/8.7.1) with SMTP id LAA05454 for ; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 11:48:11 +0800 Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1996 11:48:11 +0800 Message-Id: <199601220348.LAA05454@eagle.ac.cowan.edu.au> X-Nvlenv-01Date-Posted: 22-Jan-1996 11:50:41 -0500; at STINGRAY.ac.cowan X-Nvlenv-MTS-Message-ID: E2BF0331816C2979 X-Nvlenv-Message-Class: receipt-notification X-Nvlenv-Notify-On-Refusal: allowed To: tariqas%facteur.std.com@stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au Subject: Receipt: Message was read by recipient. ------- Transcript of Report follows ------ 2Non-Standard: SMF = 2200Error-report: 0 Non-Standard: SMF = 000Application-name: PMAIL Subject: Date:22-Jan-1996 11:06:41 +0800 Non-Standard: SMF = 000X-NetWare-UIC: AORSELLIDICKSON From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Mon Jan 22 03:49:59 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA13546; Sun, 21 Jan 1996 22:51:30 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id WAA29791; Sun, 21 Jan 1996 22:51:29 -0500 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA13009; Sun, 21 Jan 1996 22:49:59 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id WAA29678; Sun, 21 Jan 1996 22:49:59 -0500 Date: Sun, 21 Jan 1996 22:49:59 -0500 Message-Id: <199601220349.WAA29678@europe.std.com> To: tariqas-approval@world.std.com From: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Subject: BOUNCE tariqas@world.std.com: Admin request Status: RO X-Status: >From habib@world.std.com Sun Jan 21 22:49:57 1996 Return-Path: Received: from eagle.ac.cowan.edu.au by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id WAA29669; Sun, 21 Jan 1996 22:49:32 -0500 From: aorsellidickson@stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au Received: from stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au (stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au [139.230.161.10]) by eagle.ac.cowan.edu.au (8.7.1/8.7.1) with SMTP id LAA02792 for ; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 11:49:01 +0800 Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1996 11:49:01 +0800 Message-Id: <199601220349.LAA02792@eagle.ac.cowan.edu.au> X-Nvlenv-01Date-Posted: 22-Jan-1996 11:51:13 -0500; at STINGRAY.ac.cowan X-Nvlenv-MTS-Message-ID: E3BF0331816C2979 X-Nvlenv-Message-Class: receipt-notification X-Nvlenv-Notify-On-Refusal: allowed To: tariqas%facteur.std.com@stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au Subject: Receipt: Message was read by recipient. ------- Transcript of Report follows ------ 2Non-Standard: SMF = 2200Error-report: 0 Non-Standard: SMF = 000Application-name: PMAIL Subject: Date:22-Jan-1996 11:07:09 +0800 Non-Standard: SMF = 000X-NetWare-UIC: AORSELLIDICKSON From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Mon Jan 22 19:14:33 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA26795; Sun, 21 Jan 1996 23:28:06 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id WAA00405; Sun, 21 Jan 1996 22:59:26 -0500 Received: from eagle.ac.cowan.edu.au by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id WAA00349; Sun, 21 Jan 1996 22:57:25 -0500 From: aorsellidickson@stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au Received: from stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au (stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au [139.230.161.10]) by eagle.ac.cowan.edu.au (8.7.1/8.7.1) with SMTP id LAA05484 for ; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 11:56:14 +0800 Message-Id: <199601220356.LAA05484@eagle.ac.cowan.edu.au> X-Nvlenv-01Date-Posted: 22-Jan-1996 11:58:39 -0500; at STINGRAY.ac.cowan X-Nvlenv-Content-Subject: jamilla/salat X-Nvlenv-Mts-Message-Id: 72C10331816C2979 X-Nvlenv-Notify-On-Read: allowed X-Nvlenv-Notify-On-Refusal: allowed X-Nvlipm-Non-Standard: SMF = 000Application-name: PMAIL To: tariqas%facteur.std.com@stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au Subject: jamilla/salat Date: 22 Jan 96 19:14:33 GMT X-Nvlipm-Non-Standard: SMF = 000X-NetWare-UIC: AORSELLIDICKSON Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Dear Jamilla, as-salaam aleikum. The Sheikh who showed me first how to perform the salat told me that the finger gesture you referred to in your query is used by Naqshbandi to indicate the unitarian principle of reality. Good luck with sorting your messages! Rabia aorsellidickson@stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Mon Jan 22 04:57:45 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA07448; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 00:01:52 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id AAA07107; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 00:01:51 -0500 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA06609; Sun, 21 Jan 1996 23:57:46 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id XAA06310; Sun, 21 Jan 1996 23:57:45 -0500 Date: Sun, 21 Jan 1996 23:57:45 -0500 Message-Id: <199601220457.XAA06310@europe.std.com> To: tariqas-approval@world.std.com From: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Subject: BOUNCE tariqas@world.std.com: Admin request Status: RO X-Status: >From habib@world.std.com Sun Jan 21 23:57:42 1996 Return-Path: Received: from eagle.ac.cowan.edu.au by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id XAA06223; Sun, 21 Jan 1996 23:57:29 -0500 From: aorsellidickson@stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au Received: from stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au (stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au [139.230.161.10]) by eagle.ac.cowan.edu.au (8.7.1/8.7.1) with SMTP id MAA05442 for ; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 12:57:06 +0800 Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1996 12:57:06 +0800 Message-Id: <199601220457.MAA05442@eagle.ac.cowan.edu.au> X-Nvlenv-01Date-Posted: 22-Jan-1996 12:59:33 -0500; at STINGRAY.ac.cowan X-Nvlenv-MTS-Message-ID: 51D00331816C2979 X-Nvlenv-Message-Class: receipt-notification X-Nvlenv-Notify-On-Refusal: allowed To: tariqas%facteur.std.com@stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au Subject: Receipt: Message was read by recipient. ------- Transcript of Report follows ------ 2Non-Standard: SMF = 2200Error-report: 0 Non-Standard: SMF = 000Application-name: PMAIL Subject: Date:22-Jan-1996 12:15:36 +0800 Non-Standard: SMF = 000X-NetWare-UIC: AORSELLIDICKSON From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Mon Jan 22 01:06:07 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA03340; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 01:03:16 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id AAA09369; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 00:22:51 -0500 Received: from orange.printronix.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id AAA09364; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 00:22:47 -0500 Message-Id: <199601220522.AAA09364@europe.std.com> Received: from VMS MAIL by orange.printronix.com (NRC MAIL Version 1.3); 21-JAN-1996 21:23:12 Date: Sun, 21 JAN 96 21:11:48 From: "M.I.S. DEPT" To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: RE: jamilla/salat X-Vms-To: ORANGE::IPMAIL%"tariqas@facteur.std.com" X-Vms-Cc: NOORDIN Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: I followed with much interest about the finger gesture in the salat ritual during the "tahiyyat". But none have so far explained the variations performed by the different Islamic orders. From what I have learned, the finger gesture is performed by all the 4 main Islamic school of thoughts. For the Shafiee school the index finger is raised and remained at this position until the end of the tahiyyat. It goes back to normal just before the first salam. For the Hanafi school the index finger is raised and remained so only during the duration of the shahadah. The finger is lowered back once the shahadah recital is over. For the Maliki school the index finger is raised and it has to move gently in circular motion. I have forgotten how the Hanbali school performs the ritual. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable in the list could provide some enlightenment Wassalam Noordin Singapore From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Mon Jan 22 06:08:43 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA11508; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 01:30:04 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id BAA13475; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 01:07:08 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id BAA13451; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 01:07:02 -0500 Received: from UNiX.asb.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA03675; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 01:04:46 -0500 Received: from asb23 (sls13.asb.com [165.254.128.23]) by UNiX.asb.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id BAA15307; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 01:08:43 -0500 Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1996 01:08:43 -0500 Message-Id: <199601220608.BAA15307@UNiX.asb.com> X-Sender: fhaddad@unix.asb.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@world.std.com, msa-ec@world.std.com From: fhaddad@unix.asb.com (Fouad Haddad) Subject: Welcoming Ramadan- Correction X-Mailer: Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: >ISTIQBALU SHAHRI RAMADAN (Welcoming the Month of Ramadan) >========================================================= ... >The Prophet (s) named fasting "the poor-tax of the body" (zakat al-jasad) >and he named it "a paradise" (al-siyamu janna) Correction: He named it: "a shield" (junna). The hadith reads: "Al sawmu junna" and in another version "al-siyamu junnatun yastajinnu al-`abdu biha min al-nar" meaning "fasting is a protection(or shield or shelter) for the servant from the Fire." My thanks to Brother Hesham Bazaraa, who drew my attention to this mistransliteration/mistranslation. Ramadan mubarak - A blessed Ramadan to all! Blessings and Peace on the Prophet, his Family, and his Companions Fouad Haddad Naqshbandi-Haqqani Foundation From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Mon Jan 22 06:35:09 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA23848; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 02:12:51 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id BAA15883; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 01:36:09 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id BAA15878; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 01:36:06 -0500 Received: from UNiX.asb.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA11867; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 01:31:09 -0500 Received: from asb23 (sls13.asb.com [165.254.128.23]) by UNiX.asb.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id BAA15620 for ; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 01:35:09 -0500 Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1996 01:35:09 -0500 Message-Id: <199601220635.BAA15620@UNiX.asb.com> X-Sender: fhaddad@unix.asb.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@world.std.com From: fhaddad@unix.asb.com (Fouad Haddad) Subject: Finger gesture in salat X-Mailer: Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: salam alaykum, The finger gesture in salat is defined in all four schools of Sunni Islam as a non-obligatory part of prayer which occurs at the time one sits back at the conclusion of the first and second cycle of prayer and silently recites the "tashahhud" or testification of faith, which reads (in English): Greetings, blessings, and the best of prayers to God. Peace be upon you, O Prophet, and the mercy of God and is blessings. Peace be upon us and upon God's righteous servants. I testify there is no God except God alone without partner, and I testify that Muhammad is His servant and His Messenger. The two hands rest on one's thighs palms down. At the words "except God alone" or earlier, one lifts the right index finger horizontally and points with it. Fouad Haddad Naqshbandi-Haqqani Foundation of Ahl al-Sunna wal-Jama`a From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Mon Jan 22 06:38:00 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA25241; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 02:20:54 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id BAA16186; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 01:38:42 -0500 Received: from island.amtsgi.bc.ca by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id BAA16180; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 01:38:39 -0500 Received: from Malcolm.islandnet.com by island.amtsgi.bc.ca with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0teFti-0005gxC; Sun, 21 Jan 96 22:38 PST Message-Id: Date: Sun, 21 Jan 96 22:38 PST X-Sender: dynamics@islandnet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@facteur.std.com From: dynamics@islandnet.com (Jabreil Hanafi) Subject: What Soul? Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Self-Control >Thy soul cares only for itself, like the camel: >It is self-conceited, self-governed, and self-willed. There is this question regarding the soul and the distinction which is the vantage point of various diffrent Sufi Orders. For some the soul appears to be a spark which is really the property of the Creator. It comes with a guarentee to return to itself and/or atonement (at-one-ment) back to its Creator. To another way of thinking, the soul becomes something which is similar to the persona, the mask, the ego can be but burned out of existance perpetualy in a re-occuring or even perpetual resurrection of torment ( please pardon the obvious sense of morbidity). Last but not least there is the axiom of knowing thyself and than the mandate not to be a lover of self. Here a tangent can go into play regarding the higher and lower self. So first of all what is the soul according to fundamental Islam? What is the soul according to various different orders? What is the soul according to Ibn Arabi and what is the distinction according to Rumi? How does the soul differ from the ego, the nafs, the mechanics of the personality? How does the soul differ from the Universal Mind, the spirit and the person whose body it is sharring? Please pardon me for tagging this perhaps new thread onto the illuminating two peices regarding the Holy Month of Ramadan and thank I thank the sender for their encouragement and acknowledgement. The questions I am asking are quite sincere and I hope to hear as many view points as I might so that my thirst may even become more ferocious and as I seek with an even greater heart. Happy Ramadan and warm Love. Your Brother. Jabriel ----------------------------------------- Jabriel Hanafi Dynamics Unlimited Suite 806 327 Maitland Victoria B.C. V9A 7G7 Voice (604) 384 6629 Fax (604) 380 9909 From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Mon Jan 22 16:40:44 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA28698; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 12:30:44 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id LAA13898; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 11:51:04 -0500 Received: from indy91.gclab.missouri.edu by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id LAA13874; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 11:50:58 -0500 Received: (from c640429@localhost) by indy91.gclab.missouri.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA08925; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 10:40:44 -0600 (CST) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1996 10:40:44 -0600 (CST) From: Jawad Qureshi X-Sender: c640429@indy91.gclab.missouri.edu To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: Welcoming Ramadan In-Reply-To: <199601211504.KAA04716@UNiX.asb.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Assalamo alaikum, What a beautiful du'a! Brother, is there a possibility of getting this in Arabic, along with any of the other Dhikrs? Salam, jawad From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Mon Jan 22 18:12:43 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA27352; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 13:55:33 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id NAA16363; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 13:08:30 -0500 Received: from UNiX.asb.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id NAA16358; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 13:08:27 -0500 Received: from asb15 (sls5.asb.com [165.254.128.15]) by UNiX.asb.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA06521 for ; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 13:12:43 -0500 Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1996 13:12:43 -0500 Message-Id: <199601221812.NAA06521@UNiX.asb.com> X-Sender: fhaddad@unix.asb.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@facteur.std.com From: fhaddad@unix.asb.com (Fouad Haddad) Subject: Re: Welcoming Ramadan X-Mailer: Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: > >Assalamo alaikum, > >What a beautiful du'a! Brother, is there a possibility of getting this >in Arabic, along with any of the other Dhikrs? > >Salam, >jawad > > wa alaykum as-salam, So far, only to the extent of the transliterations provided. Perhaps an Arabic speaker can transcribe it back into Arabic for you. Ramadan mubarak. Fouad From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Tue Jan 23 18:20:16 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA23800; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 23:01:23 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id WAA28259; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 22:10:08 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id WAA28250; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 22:10:05 -0500 From: aorsellidickson@stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au Received: from eagle.ac.cowan.edu.au by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA23408; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 22:02:08 -0500 Received: from stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au (stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au [139.230.161.10]) by eagle.ac.cowan.edu.au (8.7.1/8.7.1) with SMTP id LAA11526 for ; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 11:01:42 +0800 Message-Id: <199601230301.LAA11526@eagle.ac.cowan.edu.au> X-Nvlenv-01Date-Posted: 23-Jan-1996 11:04:37 -0500; at STINGRAY.ac.cowan X-Nvlenv-Content-Subject: Renga+ X-Nvlenv-Mts-Message-Id: 19060531816C2979 X-Nvlenv-Notify-On-Read: allowed X-Nvlenv-Notify-On-Refusal: allowed X-Nvlipm-Non-Standard: SMF = 000Application-name: PMAIL To: tariqas%world.std.com@stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au Subject: Renga+ Date: 23 Jan 96 18:20:16 GMT X-Nvlipm-Non-Standard: SMF = 000X-NetWare-UIC: AORSELLIDICKSON Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: <33320131816C2979>RFC822:199601200424.XAA12821@epix.net 000Authors: sarmad@epix.net (James Brody) To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: Renga + 1 On Thu, 18 Jan 1996 17:32:47 -0800 (PST), you wrote: >> >> >> Wisconsin sunset >> Parhelion blue cone floods >> into my faint heart Noor >> >> Grey ice at the curb >> Sliding on hard mounds of snow >> Boots dodging puddles Saki Zenzaki >> >> Great Michigan Lake >> Transformed, window panes crack, slide >> Stilled waves pause and wait Holley Lantz >> >> While all else see ice >> I sit under a blue sky >> With sun blazing down Mikail Davenport >> >> >> Cool grey town of love >> Yesterday cold dark wet sky >> Stopped to wash us Jamasp >> >> >> >> Today a bright sun >> Drying yesterdays raindrops >> Life is indeed great Tansen-Muni >> >> Wisconsin sunset >> A dream of bygone summer >> Warm winds are blowing Abi'l-Khayr >> >> Warm winds are blowing >> Somewhere on the earth always >> Every moment, even now Cynthia >> >> >> Spider sky with clouds >> Silver bands of sun's last light >> Chill winds shake my soul Hadi >> >> Louisiana >> Agadir, Ile de Gerba Mackie >> Belighted Divans >> > A heron's song > Disappearing > Across the silent Gulf Abdul Mustafa > Taste of Light Snowy sound of Jasmin One Sense inhabits each knowing Abraham Sarmad LA - sunset of the seen; fall of the soul ILLA-dawn of the Unseen; springtime of the heart ILLA- Gulf of the night;summer of the spirit Rabia LLAH- Midnight Sun: the Secre From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Tue Jan 23 19:33:26 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA15096; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 23:55:36 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id XAA08405; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 23:21:29 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id XAA08399; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 23:21:27 -0500 From: aorsellidickson@stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au Received: from eagle.ac.cowan.edu.au by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA00629; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 23:15:14 -0500 Received: from stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au (stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au [139.230.161.10]) by eagle.ac.cowan.edu.au (8.7.1/8.7.1) with SMTP id MAA11686 for ; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 12:14:49 +0800 Message-Id: <199601230414.MAA11686@eagle.ac.cowan.edu.au> X-Nvlenv-01Date-Posted: 23-Jan-1996 12:17:51 -0500; at STINGRAY.ac.cowan X-Nvlenv-Content-Subject: Renga+ mistake X-Nvlenv-Mts-Message-Id: 75170531816C2979 X-Nvlenv-Notify-On-Read: allowed X-Nvlenv-Notify-On-Refusal: allowed X-Nvlipm-Non-Standard: SMF = 000Application-name: PMAIL To: tariqas%world.std.com@stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au Subject: Renga+ mistake Date: 23 Jan 96 19:33:26 GMT X-Nvlipm-Non-Standard: SMF = 000X-NetWare-UIC: AORSELLIDICKSON Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: The last line should read: Midnight Sun: the Secret (sirr) From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Tue Jan 23 09:25:57 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA28247; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 04:57:59 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id EAA04020; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 04:30:25 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id EAA04009; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 04:30:23 -0500 From: informe@best.com Received: from blob.best.net by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA24472; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 04:26:01 -0500 Received: from [204.156.129.34] (informe.vip.best.com [204.156.129.34]) by blob.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id BAA20471 for ; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 01:25:57 -0800 Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 01:25:57 -0800 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: Ray of the creation Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: > Hello. > I hope that this find you with happeness. > My name is Raymundo Vasconcelos and i am from BRAZIL(S=C3O PAULO). > I like to know information about de subject RAY OF THE CREATION. > I make part of the people that studies the body and the soul and the >path that to be go since the GOOD. > If is possible that you can help me ...I'll be very happy. > Thanks and sorry my English level. > My address in the INTERNET is BARAKA3@IBM.NET As-salaam alaikum wa Ramadan Mubarak, Can anyone help this brother? Salaams, Hamza From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Tue Jan 23 09:28:26 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA28550; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 04:59:52 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id EAA03848; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 04:25:58 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id EAA03828; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 04:25:53 -0500 Received: from UNiX.asb.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA24175; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 04:23:51 -0500 Received: from asb12 (sls2.asb.com [165.254.128.12]) by UNiX.asb.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id EAA08373; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 04:28:26 -0500 Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 04:28:26 -0500 Message-Id: <199601230928.EAA08373@UNiX.asb.com> X-Sender: fhaddad@unix.asb.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@world.std.com, msa-ec@world.std.com From: fhaddad@unix.asb.com (Fouad Haddad) Subject: Generosity in Ramadan Cc: soc-religion-islam@telerama.lm.com X-Mailer: Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: GENEROSITY IN THE MONTH OF RAMADAN ---------------------------------- From Ibn `Abbas (r): He said: "Allah's Messenger (s) was the most bounteous of people. He was at his most bounteous in Ramadan, when Jibril would meet him, and he used to meet him every night of Ramadan and study the Qur'an with him.* Allah's Messenger (s) was more bounteous at that time than the wind sent forth from heaven."** Bukhari extracted it in the first book of his "Sahih" entitled "The Beginning of Revelation" (bid' al-wahy). Muslim extracted it in the Book of Merits (fada'il), in the chapter entitled: "The Prophet (s) Was the Most Bounteous of People in Doing Good." *daarasa from mudaarasa, which originally means to rehearse something in order not to forget it. The meaning here is that Jibril would alternate the rapid recitation of the Qur'an with the Prophet (s). **The wide-reaching wind whose strength endures and whose benefit is generalized. Ramadan mubarak (A Blessed Ramadan)! Blessings and Peace on the Prophet, his Family, and his Companions Fouad Haddad Naqshbandi-Haqqani Foundation of Ahl al-Sunna wal-Jama`a From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Tue Jan 23 14:21:37 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA28206; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 10:23:35 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id JAA23034; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 09:21:40 -0500 Received: from xs1.xs4all.nl by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id JAA23021; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 09:21:34 -0500 Received: by xs1.xs4all.nl id AA04280 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for tariqas@europe.std.com); Tue, 23 Jan 1996 15:21:38 +0100 From: tommyboy Message-Id: <199601231421.AA04280@xs1.xs4all.nl> Subject: Re: Thomas/habib and understandin To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 15:21:37 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <199601220224.KAA12048@eagle.ac.cowan.edu.au> from "aorsellidickson@stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au" at Jan 22, 96 05:42:50 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 2311 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Dear Rabia On monday 22 january you wrote: > I have learnt a lot from dreams and contemplation of > 'truths' expressed through feeling(not emotion!), music, 'presences', > art, poetry, more than from any other source ( academic ) > Not to say one cannot learn anything from books and discussion, > but most of the real learning occurs through different pathways, > evan at physiological level . Theta and alpha waves in the brain > are connected with dreaming and meditation, rather than Beta\ > (associated with nornal state of the so called consciousness: > better to call it state of awareness) > The activity of the cerebellum/vs the cortex( rational thought;, > the role of the solar plexus and of the hendocrynal system, > especially the so called pineal gland, > all these must be taken > into consideration when looking at what is "thinking' > and learning... I'm sorry but i don't know much about brainwaves or physiological processes concerning learning. You already indicated that you learned a lot from "...dreams and contemplation of 'truths' expressed though feeling...,music, 'presences', art, poetry,...". Up till now i like to think of the brain NOT as some kind of computer or database, but as an ARTIST. I am repeating here the thoughts of F. Smith ('Literacy: inventing worlds or shunting information', in Olsen &tc.; 1985): The brain contains a theory of the world, but it is impossible to 'store' all the impressions that the chaotic world is pouring onto us. Therefore information doesn't consist in the brain, but in the world itself. The brain needs only the understanding how to interpret all the choas into 'thruths' -> a theory of the world. Smith says that the brain learns not by storing info, but by exploring all the possibilities, by testing it's own creations. Hence, it learns like an artist, who also tests his\her ideas against the 'theories' of the spectators\public -> the brain's theories of the world are tested in the world. It also learns best when it is creative. Reality, Smith argues, is a FANTASY that works. One could say that a community create and share the same fantasies. And there are so many fantasies out there in the world...so many beautiful cultural forms. Do you like the idea of THE BRAIN AS AN ARTIST ? Best wishes Thomas From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Tue Jan 23 14:49:10 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA03988; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 10:31:57 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id JAA26711; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 09:48:59 -0500 Received: from acad1.cc.uleth.ca by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id JAA26698; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 09:48:50 -0500 From: pavlna@hg.uleth.ca Received: by hg.uleth.ca (MX V4.2 VAX) id 122; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 07:49:11 MST Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 07:49:10 MST To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Message-Id: <0099CCEF.BED0B762.122@hg.uleth.ca> Subject: RE: Judiaisn, Christianity, Islam and war: The Lie Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Salaam Alaikum: I realize that my reply is a little late, but I have become lazy in checking my e-mail messages. Anyway, I just wanted to support you in your attitude of non violence. It is sad that more of our brothers and sisters do not take such a stance. We do so much violence to each other through judging each other and not accepting that we are all on the same path although each may be at a different place on the path. I used to think that anger and hatred was justified and an acceptable way to live. It is not. It only eats you up. How can anyone truly accept the beauty and forgiveness of The Source of Beauty and Forgiveness if he/she is tainted by the pollution of hate? If we are truly to be followers of Muhammad, if he is our example, we should try our best to not react in a violent manner. It was not his way. I'm tired, so I'm babbling. What I have realized from my vague knowledge of history and my observation of the present situation of the world is that the history of our species has been one of violence. Well, we can see how far that has gotten us. I'm just sick of pain, war, and murder. None of the great religious teachers preached this. I beg Allah's forgiveness for how far we have strayed. Ramadhan Kareem! Sister Natalie From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Tue Jan 23 18:53:34 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA21664; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 15:27:04 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id OAA27825; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 14:09:15 -0500 Received: from tymix.Tymnet.COM by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id NAA27488; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 13:53:25 -0500 Received: by tymix.Tymnet.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA23846; Tue, 23 Jan 96 10:53:10 PST Received: from antares by tymix.Tymnet.COM (in.smtpd); 23 Jan 96 10:53:10 PST Received: from kirin.Tymnet.COM by antares.Tymnet.COM (8.6.5/UCB) id KAA07273; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 10:53:09 -0800 Received: by kirin.Tymnet.COM (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA09551; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 10:53:34 -0800 Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 10:53:34 -0800 From: mmoore@antares.Tymnet.COM (Michael J. Moore) Message-Id: <9601231853.AA09551@kirin.Tymnet.COM> To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Musical danger X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: > I have learnt a lot from dreams and contemplation of > 'truths' expressed through feeling(not emotion!), music, 'presences', > art, poetry, more than from any other source ( academic ) > Rabia (Annalisa) > Aorsellidickson@ cowan.ecu.au Feelings? emotion? what is the difference? Music can keep people in their slumber. If taken, it should be prescribed by somebody who knows. IMHO The danger of music should not be underestimated. -Michael- From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Tue Jan 23 17:58:11 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA04232; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 15:45:39 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id OAA03813; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 14:48:14 -0500 Received: from jazz.ucc.uno.edu by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id OAA03798; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 14:48:10 -0500 From: MJVBEG@jazz.ucc.uno.edu Received: from jazz.ucc.uno.edu by jazz.ucc.uno.edu (PMDF V5.0-4 #11893) id <01I0CK9IPDC090TTYK@jazz.ucc.uno.edu> for tariqas@facteur.std.com; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 11:58:11 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 11:58:11 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: jamilla/salat To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Message-Id: <01I0CK9IQFWY90TTYK@jazz.ucc.uno.edu> X-Vms-To: IN%"tariqas@facteur.std.com" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: From what i understand, this gesture derives from Sunnah. It is considered an almost imperceptible but subtle sign of caution and warning to Iblis to stay his distance. Most Muslims raise their finger once and then bring it to rest with the hand as the one praying continues his or her prayers. Some sects, however, gesticulate this finger numerous times, which apparently is not directly Sunnah. This whole discussion, however, raises another question: How can there be so much attention paid to *Hal*, *Muqammat*, and "Say Allah and you are Allah"--when at the same time on this list there seems to be so little basic knowledge of Salat? Doesn't this suggest that one has to a thoroughgoing Muslim before one can even consider--and only at the encouragement and selection of others--bcoming a Sufi? It seems to me that the experience for many of us is more important than Allah. And this is HHallul and shirk. Say Iblis, who comes in many forms, and you are Iblis. =Mackie Blanton= From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Tue Jan 23 18:05:18 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA14115; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 15:58:29 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id PAA08219; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 15:20:13 -0500 Received: from inside.cruzio.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id PAA08214; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 15:20:09 -0500 Received: from pine196.cruzio.com by inside.cruzio.com id aa24384; 23 Jan 96 10:04 PST X-Sender: dances@mail.cruzio.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 10:05:18 -0800 To: tariqas@facteur.std.com, BARAKA3@IBM.NET, dances@cruzio.com From: James Hallam Subject: Re: Ray of the creation Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: >> Hello. >> I hope that this find you with happeness. >> My name is Raymundo Vasconcelos and i am from BRAZIL(S=C3O PAULO). >> I like to know information about de subject RAY OF THE CREATION. >> I make part of the people that studies the body and the soul and the >>path that to be go since the GOOD. >> If is possible that you can help me ...I'll be very happy. >> Thanks and sorry my English level. >> My address in the INTERNET is BARAKA3@IBM.NET God bless Raymond AND Hamza: Couple of quick questions and I 'll mention what I know and then God willing you'll have questions back thereupon we might both learn this Ray of Creation. I would start with what is ray and what is creation AND what is the RELATIONSHIP OF THESE TWO WORDS:RAY & CREATION. I see this ray (a beam say light) ;creation (a process from nothing (God) to the appearance of something(a creation of God (hence nothing))). Hence RAY OF CREATION (just me talking) is the sending of sending nothing to nothing from nothing (all relative terms the word nothing used to convey importance in relation to size GOD; i.e.; man to the Sun: man is nothing compared to size of sun like bacteria to size of man maybe even worse. next: ray of creation is Gurdjieff (Russian mystic 1860-1947) term possibly attributed to Naqqshsbandi(please excuse if spelled wrong)Sufi Order. Gurdjieff say there are many level between God and man and things near to size man(such as solar system) and that God's influence(or laws) are weak to man as man is too far from God; mind you God is not weak ,man is weak , and the way God's influence spreads from the beginning to the end of the ray of creation is complex. If you want more I can find book and qoute passages from student Gurdjieff: thier words more concise than mine Please buy large bag of salt before consuming.Wish to see your beautiful country some day Love james hallam dances@cruzio.com From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Tue Jan 23 18:24:19 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA17059; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 16:00:37 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id PAA05957; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 15:05:00 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id PAA05945; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 15:04:58 -0500 From: MJVBEG@jazz.ucc.uno.edu Received: from jazz.ucc.uno.edu by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA03690; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 15:00:11 -0500 Received: from jazz.ucc.uno.edu by jazz.ucc.uno.edu (PMDF V5.0-4 #11893) id <01I0CKVHQEXY90TTYK@jazz.ucc.uno.edu> for TARIQAS@WORLD.STD.COM; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 12:24:19 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 12:24:19 -0600 (CST) Subject: Al RuH To: TARIQAS@world.std.com Message-Id: <01I0CKVHQEY090TTYK@jazz.ucc.uno.edu> X-Vms-To: TARIQAS Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Jabriel has already very nicely laid out for us the significant questions concerning belief in the soul. All i would like to do at this juncture in this thread is to insert the consequences of one of these beliefs. If we say that the soul is spark from the Creator, we then make no ultimate distinction between the Creator and Creation. In fact, an implication is that Creation is the Creation and, as Creation, is, so to speak, on vacation from the realm of Heaven. So, the question that plague Orthodox Jews for centuries, and then eventually Orthodox Christians for centuries, is, When we die, do we as our soul return to God's Divine Essence--or what? Saying "Yes!" would associate us with God, and for these monotheists, that is blasphemy and heresy. So they each, as if no one was reading and studying one another's spiritual struggles, eventually made a distinction between Divine Essence--the Creator--and Divine Energies--Creation. The upshot, therefore, for them is that when we die return to Divine Essence to sit before God whom we will praise and glorify as Divine Energy. The degree of the divinity of our divine energy depends on the extent to which, on earth, in a life of prayer and worship, we succeeded in deifying our soul. So now, along with the distinction between Divinity (God) and Deification (Mankind), their writings give us Essence (Creator) and Energies (Creation). Many non-monotheists bypass these distinctions altogether and prefer not to speak of "God", or of "Allah," for that matter--but of Creator and Creation, wherein all is Divine. So Jabriel's question, in my own words, given how I have come to see various spiritual struggles, is, How *exactly* do Sufis separate themselves in terms of the soul along this belief or that one? What distinctions do we make for explain *Al RuHH* and *Al Nafs*? =Mackie Blanton= From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Tue Jan 23 19:07:01 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA23931; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 16:10:55 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id PAA06630; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 15:07:27 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id PAA06614; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 15:07:24 -0500 From: MJVBEG@jazz.ucc.uno.edu Received: from jazz.ucc.uno.edu by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA03704; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 15:00:12 -0500 Received: from jazz.ucc.uno.edu by jazz.ucc.uno.edu (PMDF V5.0-4 #11893) id <01I0CN0PA4GE90TTYK@jazz.ucc.uno.edu> for TARIQAS@WORLD.STD.COM; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 13:07:01 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 13:07:01 -0600 (CST) To: TARIQAS@world.std.com Message-Id: <01I0CN0PA4G090TTYK@jazz.ucc.uno.edu> X-Vms-To: TARIQAS Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: From: IN%"MULT-CUL@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU" "Multicultural List" 22-JAN-1996 15:42:27.15 To: IN%"MULT-CUL@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU" "Multiple recipients of list MULT-CUL" CC: Subj: SUMSEM: Islamic History and Cultures, Tempe 5-6/96 (fwd) Return-path: Received: from listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu (listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu) by jazz.ucc.uno.edu (PMDF V5.0-4 #11893) id <01I0BDEYIJ4W90RAB1@jazz.ucc.uno.edu> for MJVBEG@jazz.ucc.uno.edu; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 15:21:19 -0600 (CST) Received: from listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu (listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu [128.205.7.35]) by listserv.acsu.buffalo.edu (8.7.3/8.7.1) with SMTP id QAA17376; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 16:05:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU by UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU (LISTSERV release 1.8b) with NJE id 4763 for MULT-CUL@UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 09:07:07 -0500 Received: from UBVM (NJE origin SMTP@UBVM) by UBVM.CC.BUFFALO.EDU (LMail V1.2a/1.8a) with BSMTP id 7986; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 09:06:24 -0500 Received: from ubvmsb.cc.buffalo.edu by UBVM.cc.buffalo.edu (IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with TCP; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 09:06:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu by ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu (PMDF V5.0-5 #13849) id <01I0B0CTHAIW8X59PU@ubvms.cc.buffalo.edu>; Mon, 22 Jan 1996 09:06:56 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1996 09:06:56 -0500 From: SHAWGI TELL Subject: SUMSEM: Islamic History and Cultures, Tempe 5-6/96 (fwd) Sender: Multicultural List To: Multiple recipients of list MULT-CUL Reply-to: Multicultural List Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT FYI. Shawgi Tell University at Buffalo Graduate School of Education V600A8E6@UBVMS.CC.BUFFALO.EDU ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 22 Jan 1996 05:05:53 -0600 From: Josef J. Barton To: Multiple recipients of list H-ETHNIC Subject: SUMSEM: Islamic History and Cultures, Tempe 5-6/96 ISLAMIC HISTORY AND CULTURES A National Endowment for the Humanities Summer Institute for College and University Faculty Charles Evans and Julia Clancy-Smith, Directors 27 May TO 21 June 1996 University of Arizona Tuson, Az Applications are invited from Faculty for participation in a four-week institute to study the history and cultures of the Islamic world. l The following scholars will lead discussions: John Voll, Richard Eaton, Charles Smith, Charles Butterworth, Judith Tucker, Dan Ehnbom, Miriam Cooke, and Julia Clancy-Smith. Participants will study a variety of sources during the course of the institute, including primary and secondary works. No prior knowledge of Islamic history or the Arabic language is required. Applications are invited from college and university teachers in history, literature, art history, philosophy, political science, foreign languages, religion and the humanities in general. A stipend of $1,000 plus an allowance for travel, room and board will be provided all participants. The deadline for applications is 1 March 1996. For information and an application please contact: David Berry, Executive Director Community College Humanities Association Community College of Philadelphia 1700 Spring Garden St. Philadelphia, Pa. 19130 Telephone: 215-751-8860 Fax: 215-623-6449 Charles Evans, NVEVANC@NV.CC.VA.US Northern Virginia CC, RT. #7, Sterling VA 20164 Telephone: 703-450-2505 Fax: 703-450-2536 From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Tue Jan 23 23:27:38 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA28902; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 19:50:34 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id SAA02729; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 18:28:13 -0500 Received: from relay1.UU.NET by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id SAA02722; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 18:28:11 -0500 From: Jinavamsa@aol.com Received: from emout05.mail.aol.com by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP id QQzzuz20896; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 18:28:06 -0500 (EST) Received: by emout05.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id SAA02498 for tariqas@europe.std.com; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 18:27:38 -0500 Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 18:27:38 -0500 Message-Id: <960123181153_204882492@emout05.mail.aol.com> To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: Thomas/habib and understandin Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: In a message dated 96-01-23 09:24:20 EST, you write: >Up till now i like to think of the brain NOT as some kind of >computer or database, but as an ARTIST. >I am repeating here the thoughts of F. Smith ('Literacy: inventing >worlds or shunting information', in Olsen &tc.; 1985): >The brain contains a theory of the world, but it is impossible >to 'store' all the impressions that the chaotic world is pouring >onto us. Therefore information doesn't consist in the brain, but >in the world itself. The brain needs only the understanding how >to interpret all the choas into 'thruths' -> a theory of the world. >Smith says that the brain learns not by storing info, but by >exploring all the possibilities, by testing it's own creations. >Hence, it learns like an artist, who also tests his\her ideas >against the 'theories' of the spectators\public -> the brain's theories >of the world are tested in the world. It also learns best when it is >creative. >Reality, Smith argues, is a FANTASY that works. One could say that >a community create and share the same fantasies. And there are so >many fantasies out there in the world...so many beautiful cultural forms. > >Do you like the idea of THE BRAIN AS AN ARTIST ? > >Best wishes > Thomas > Yes, Thomas, I find "brain as artist" to be a beautiful idea! Interesting formulation that reminds me of some of the teachings about the indeterminacy of theory from data, the work of Willard van O. Quine, Nelson Goodman, and others. Can you give the reference to the "Olsen 1985" book? Also what is the full name of F. Smith? Jinavamsa From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Wed Jan 24 01:21:14 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA20953; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 21:30:27 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id UAA02226; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 20:21:31 -0500 Received: from xs1.xs4all.nl by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id UAA02215; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 20:21:26 -0500 Received: by xs1.xs4all.nl id AA06933 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for tariqas@europe.std.com); Wed, 24 Jan 1996 02:21:14 +0100 From: tommyboy Message-Id: <199601240121.AA06933@xs1.xs4all.nl> Subject: Re: Thomas/habib and understandin To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 02:21:14 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <960123181153_204882492@emout05.mail.aol.com> from "Jinavamsa@aol.com" at Jan 23, 96 06:27:38 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 238 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Hello Jinavamsa The exact reference is: Olsen, D.R., Torrance, N., Hildyard, A. 1985, 'Literacy, Language and Learning, The Nature and consequences of Reading and Writing', Cambridge, Cambridge University Press. Bye Thomas From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Wed Jan 24 02:00:29 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA09932; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 22:06:11 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id VAA07249; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 21:07:43 -0500 Received: from epix.net by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id VAA07218; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 21:07:38 -0500 Received: from .epix.net (lwbyppp100.epix.net [199.224.69.100]) by epix.net (8.7.1/8.7) with SMTP id VAA23164 for ; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 21:06:14 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199601240206.VAA23164@epix.net> From: sarmad@epix.net (James Brody) To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: Musical danger Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 02:00:29 GMT References: <9601231853.AA09551@kirin.Tymnet.COM> X-Mailer: Forte Agent .99b.112 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: On Tue, 23 Jan 1996 10:53:34 -0800, you wrote: > >> I have learnt a lot from dreams and contemplation of >> 'truths' expressed through feeling(not emotion!), music, 'presences', >> art, poetry, more than from any other source ( academic ) >> Rabia (Annalisa) >> Aorsellidickson@ cowan.ecu.au > >Feelings? emotion? what is the difference? > >Music can keep people in their slumber. If taken, it should be prescribed >by somebody who knows. IMHO The danger of music should not be >underestimated. > >-Michael- > > If one cannot be awake while listening to music, then one is truly asleep. Abraham Sarmad From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Tue Jan 23 16:46:47 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA19830; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 23:23:43 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id WAA18891; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 22:44:43 -0500 Received: from relay1.UU.NET by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id WAA18886; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 22:44:40 -0500 Received: from tymix.Tymnet.COM by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP id QQzztz14418; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 11:47:51 -0500 (EST) Received: by tymix.Tymnet.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA05939; Tue, 23 Jan 96 08:46:25 PST Received: from antares by tymix.Tymnet.COM (in.smtpd); 23 Jan 96 8:46:24 PST Received: from kirin.Tymnet.COM by antares.Tymnet.COM (8.6.5/UCB) id IAA05394; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 08:46:23 -0800 Received: by kirin.Tymnet.COM (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA09516; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 08:46:47 -0800 Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 08:46:47 -0800 From: mmoore@antares.Tymnet.COM (Michael J. Moore) Message-Id: <9601231646.AA09516@kirin.Tymnet.COM> To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: Thomas/habib and understandin X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: > Reality, Smith argues, is a FANTASY that works> > Best wishes > Thomas > False reality is a FANTASY that does not work. Reality is not a fantasy. This is why we are on the path, --- to 'find' the reality which is not a fantasy. Cheers, -Michael- From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Wed Jan 24 19:57:28 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA10500; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 00:16:58 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id XAA25646; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 23:39:54 -0500 Received: from eagle.ac.cowan.edu.au by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id XAA25610; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 23:39:35 -0500 From: aorsellidickson@stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au Received: from stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au (stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au [139.230.161.10]) by eagle.ac.cowan.edu.au (8.7.1/8.7.1) with SMTP id MAA10868 for ; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 12:39:02 +0800 Message-Id: <199601240439.MAA10868@eagle.ac.cowan.edu.au> X-Nvlenv-01Date-Posted: 24-Jan-1996 12:42:11 -0500; at STINGRAY.ac.cowan X-Nvlenv-Content-Subject: feelings and emotions X-Nvlenv-Mts-Message-Id: B76D0631816C2979 X-Nvlenv-Notify-On-Read: allowed X-Nvlenv-Notify-On-Refusal: allowed X-Nvlipm-Non-Standard: SMF = 000Application-name: PMAIL To: tariqas%facteur.std.com@stingray.ac.cowan.edu.au Subject: feelings and emotions Date: 24 Jan 96 19:57:28 GMT X-Nvlipm-Non-Standard: SMF = 000X-NetWare-UIC: AORSELLIDICKSON Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Dear Michael, perhaps the distinction i have mad between feelings and emotions is not one normally endorsed by scholars of religion or allowed by the English language (which takes the two terms as synonimous), but i can assure you that in my experience is a very real one. Let's say that it is a matter of distinction of quality and nature of energies involved: feelings involve more subtle and refined energies than those coarser, purely sensory- based involved in emotions. 'Feelings' in this special sense bridge the gap between the psychological and the spiritual, often through the esthetic experience. They are related to the higher emotional centre ( us ing the terminology of G.Gurdjeff) Basically the distinction is similar to that between 'consciousness' (higher) and awareness(lower). Also in this case the English language makes no distinction, and we tend to use the terms indifferently as synonimous, but there is an ocean of difference between them. (I owe my understanding of this difference mainly to the teachings of Dr. P.W.Groves in Sydney) Please can you tell me the meaning of IMHO?(ref to your reply to my message)i must confess i do not understand, but i am not a native speaker of English... You also write :" the danger of music should not be underestimated". Thanks for attracting attention onto this, but i would like to add that the spiritual possibilities within music should also not be underestimated. Thank you, Michael Rabi From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Wed Jan 24 05:26:01 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA29189; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 01:01:38 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id AAA00993; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 00:25:05 -0500 Received: from inside.cruzio.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id AAA00984; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 00:25:02 -0500 Received: from pine196.cruzio.com by inside.cruzio.com id aa03183; 23 Jan 96 21:25 PST X-Sender: dances@mail.cruzio.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 21:26:01 -0800 To: tariqas@facteur.std.com From: James Hallam Subject: Writer of a Sufi book. Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Does anyone have contact or e-mail of Murat Yagin? From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Wed Jan 24 06:20:00 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA12609; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 01:52:02 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id BAA05678; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 01:20:02 -0500 Received: from jazz.ucc.uno.edu by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id BAA05666; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 01:19:59 -0500 From: MJVBEG@jazz.ucc.uno.edu Received: from jazz.ucc.uno.edu by jazz.ucc.uno.edu (PMDF V5.0-4 #11893) id <01I0DACK826890UVPH@jazz.ucc.uno.edu> for tariqas@facteur.std.com; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 00:20:00 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 00:20:00 -0600 (CST) Subject: Murat Yagan To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Message-Id: <01I0DACK94R690UVPH@jazz.ucc.uno.edu> X-Vms-To: IN%"tariqas@facteur.std.com" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: To obtain information on Murat yagan's Kebzeh Foundation of Canada, write Joan McIntyre, Education Minister. Kebzeh Foundation of Canada PO Box 1207 Vernon, British Columbia Canada V1T 6N6 Te. 604/549-4479 604/549-2805 FAX =Mackie Blanton= From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Wed Jan 24 06:50:39 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA16091; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 02:11:28 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id BAA08676; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 01:51:07 -0500 Received: from yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id BAA08659; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 01:51:00 -0500 Received: from localhost (darice@localhost) by yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (8.6.4/8.6.4) id RAA21719; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 17:50:44 +1100 Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 17:50:39 +1100 (EST) From: Fred Rice To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: SAUDI BLACKMAIL TO BE DEBATED IN BRITISH PARLIAMENT -- MER Special, 1/23/96 In-Reply-To: <960123155616_124974456@mail04.mail.aol.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: As far as I can tell, this isn't related to Sufism... Is there any way to stop these posts??? Peace, Farid ud-Dien From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Wed Jan 24 06:44:31 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA16527; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 02:13:28 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id BAA08432; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 01:46:31 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id BAA08414; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 01:46:26 -0500 From: MJVBEG@jazz.ucc.uno.edu Received: from jazz.ucc.uno.edu by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA11029; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 01:44:24 -0500 Received: from jazz.ucc.uno.edu by jazz.ucc.uno.edu (PMDF V5.0-4 #11893) id <01I0DBCBLNJ490UVPH@jazz.ucc.uno.edu> for TARIQAS@WORLD.STD.COM; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 00:44:31 -0600 (CST) Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 00:44:31 -0600 (CST) Subject: Renga: *LIGHT* To: TARIQAS@world.std.com Message-Id: <01I0DBCBMZR690UVPH@jazz.ucc.uno.edu> X-Vms-To: TARIQAS Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Illumination is the goal of everyone what a glow we'll make Tansen-Muni Inter-light spills forth from within enlightening the world from without Ruthie Roberts Transect horizons journey of sunrise, sunset Starry Milky Way desert donkey where there is darkness winter has surrendered so the spring can rise Jabriel The inner light shines From the eyes, the windows of The soul. Keep shining! mikail davenport I dreamt my deathbed spilled my body onto floor; "I" burst into light. Noor in MN. Night fog, morning dew Seeing all things as they are A lifting of veils Jelaludin Roberts Imagine we are snowflakes evaporating in the light of the One Candace winter light shines clear from more than one direction we are all backlit Junnaiyd Moore You can be the candle which brings the light or the mirror which reflects it. Michael Gest Warm Asha ravished by the lights of tariqas: Mackie Salaat's last gleaming. From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Tue Jan 23 16:43:19 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA25168; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 02:59:33 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id CAA11364; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 02:35:01 -0500 Received: from relay7.UU.NET by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id CAA11359; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 02:34:59 -0500 From: NurLuna@aol.com Received: from mail06.mail.aol.com by relay7.UU.NET with SMTP id QQzzug22867; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 13:33:35 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail06.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA23998 for tariqas@europe.std.com; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 11:43:19 -0500 Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 11:43:19 -0500 Message-Id: <960123114317_124797359@mail06.mail.aol.com> To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: NO CHAIN LETTERS! Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: As-salaam aleikum, tariqas beloveds! In a message dated 96-01-12, brother Habib Rose wrote: >In case you don't get my other message, PLEASE don't send any chain >letters or similar material to tariqas. This discussion list is not the >place for general Internet stuff -- I won't even use it to promote some >of my own ideas! I did not consider the post to be a chain letter when I sent it. Perhaps in logistics, but certainly not in intent. And if AIDS and HIV is not a topic for the spiritual community, then what is? My opinion! Of course I will comply, brother. I understand your concern. And if anyone was offended, or felt coerced by it as brother Asha mentioned, I apologize. Estaferallah. Please excuse the tardiness of this reply. I have been unable to get to tariqas email for several weeks, and am slowly catching up! Farrunnissa From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Wed Jan 24 08:13:07 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA03553; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 03:47:02 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id DAA14178; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 03:11:17 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id DAA14167; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 03:11:14 -0500 Received: from UNiX.asb.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA26247; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 03:08:03 -0500 Received: from asb11 (sls1.asb.com [165.254.128.11]) by UNiX.asb.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id DAA14494 for ; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 03:13:07 -0500 Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 03:13:07 -0500 Message-Id: <199601240813.DAA14494@UNiX.asb.com> X-Sender: fhaddad@unix.asb.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@world.std.com From: fhaddad@unix.asb.com (Fouad Haddad) Subject: Clinton on Ramadan X-Mailer: Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: >To: msa-ec@world.std.com >Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 23:29:44 >Subject: Clinton on Ramadan >From: Parveez Syed >Sender: msa-ec-approval@world.std.com >Precedence: bulk >Reply-To: msa-ec@europe.std.com > >Tuesday 23 January 1996, London-UK > >From: Parveez Syed >Global Media Monitoring >Shanti Communications >One Stuart Road, Thornton Heath, Surrey CR7 8RA1 UK >Tel: London-UK 44-0831-196693 >Fax: 44-0181-665 0384 >E-Mail INTERNET: PARVEEZ@CR78RA1UK.WIN-UK.NET > >USA President Bill Clinton on Ramadan > >"Greetings to everyone observing the holy month of Ramadan. > > As the crescent moon signals the approach of this most sacred time in >the Islamic year, Muslims the world over commemorate the revelation of >the Koran to Muhammad. For Muslims, this marks a time of quiet >reflection and religious devotion through fasting, self-examination, and >intensive study of the teachings of Islam. Encouraging gratitude for >our blessings and compassion for those in need, Ramadan cleanses the >heart and lifts the soul. > >During this time of unprecedented movement toward peace in the Middle >East, Muslims and people of all faiths have the opportunity to join >together in creating a new world of harmony. Ramadan, with its promise >of renewal, helps to nourish the spirit of brotherhood in us all. In >this season of hope, let us resolve to work together for a better, >brighter future -- a future in which children of every religion can live >together in peace. > >Hillary and I offer best wishes to Muslims everywhere for a memorable >observance. > >WILLIAM J. CLINTON >19 January 1996" > >ends > > >----------------------------------------------------------------- >Parveez Syed's direct contact details are: >One Stuart Road, Thornton Heath, Surrey CR7 8RA1 UK >Tel: London-UK 44-0831-196693; >Fax/tel: 44-0181-665 0384 >E-Mail INTERNET: parveez@cr78ra1uk.win-uk.net >----------------------------------------------------------------- >Food for thought?: "In politics, as in the snake oil business, it >pays to have a short memory and a chameleon-like quality. That is >why the relationship between a journalist and a politician should >be like the one between a dog and a lamp-post". >But who is doing what to whom? One wonders ;-) >----------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Wed Jan 24 09:11:53 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA11973; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 04:35:47 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id EAA16690; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 04:11:57 -0500 Received: from emout04.mail.aol.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id EAA16685; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 04:11:54 -0500 From: Hafizullah@aol.com Received: by emout04.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id EAA15939 for tariqas@europe.std.com; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 04:11:53 -0500 Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 04:11:53 -0500 Message-Id: <960124021434_125524293@emout04.mail.aol.com> To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: Writer of a Sufi book. Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Shaikh Murat Yagan lives in Vernon, British Columbia. He recently moved, and mail to him was returned. You can write to him care of his publisher, however; it's customary for a publisher to forward mail to a writer and they do it gladly. From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Wed Jan 24 18:07:21 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA14808; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 15:19:47 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id OAA00323; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 14:21:11 -0500 Received: from homer17.u.washington.edu by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id OAA00318; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 14:21:05 -0500 Received: by homer17.u.washington.edu (5.65+UW96.01/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id AA46107; Wed, 24 Jan 96 10:07:21 -0800 X-Sender: lilyan@homer17.u.washington.edu Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 10:07:21 -0800 (PST) From: Lilyan Ila To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Cc: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: Clinton on Ramadan In-Reply-To: <960124115300_303161547@emout05.mail.aol.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: asalaam-u-aleikum Interestingly, I had a completely different reaction. I thought it put the message into its proper perspective. Lily On Wed, 24 Jan 1996 Jinavamsa@aol.com wrote: > > I am not sure whether the addendum or commentary added after the end of this > little quotation from Bill Clinton is by Parveez or not, but I find that > addition more an expression of cynicism, insult, anger, and ill-will than one > of sacred holy cleansing for the soul. > If the mere mention of such is inappropriate during Ramadan I sincerely > apologize. Please let me know. > May Ramadan serve its honored function even though such thoughts are being > sent out into the universe. > Jinavamsa > > In a message dated 96-01-24 03:13:26 EST, you write: > > >>USA President Bill Clinton on Ramadan > >> > >>"Greetings to everyone observing the holy month of Ramadan. > >> > >> As the crescent moon signals the approach of this most sacred time in > >>the Islamic year, Muslims the world over commemorate the revelation of > >>the Koran to Muhammad. For Muslims, this marks a time of quiet > >>reflection and religious devotion through fasting, self-examination, and > >>intensive study of the teachings of Islam. Encouraging gratitude for > >>our blessings and compassion for those in need, Ramadan cleanses the > >>heart and lifts the soul. > >> > >>During this time of unprecedented movement toward peace in the Middle > >>East, Muslims and people of all faiths have the opportunity to join > >>together in creating a new world of harmony. Ramadan, with its promise > >>of renewal, helps to nourish the spirit of brotherhood in us all. In > >>this season of hope, let us resolve to work together for a better, > >>brighter future -- a future in which children of every religion can live > >>together in peace. > >> > >>Hillary and I offer best wishes to Muslims everywhere for a memorable > >>observance. > >> > >>WILLIAM J. CLINTON > >>19 January 1996" > >> > >>ends > >> > >> > >>----------------------------------------------------------------- > >>Parveez Syed's direct contact details are: > >>One Stuart Road, Thornton Heath, Surrey CR7 8RA1 UK > >>Tel: London-UK 44-0831-196693; > >>Fax/tel: 44-0181-665 0384 > >>E-Mail INTERNET: parveez@cr78ra1uk.win-uk.net > >>----------------------------------------------------------------- > >>Food for thought?: "In politics, as in the snake oil business, it > >>pays to have a short memory and a chameleon-like quality. That is > >>why the relationship between a journalist and a politician should > >>be like the one between a dog and a lamp-post". > >>But who is doing what to whom? One wonders ;-) > >>----------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > >> > >> > > > From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Wed Jan 24 21:12:05 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA11554; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 16:41:46 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id QAA16878; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 16:06:49 -0500 Received: from UNiX.asb.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id QAA16869; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 16:06:44 -0500 Received: from asb28 (sls18.asb.com [165.254.128.28]) by UNiX.asb.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA24687; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 16:12:05 -0500 Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 16:12:05 -0500 Message-Id: <199601242112.QAA24687@UNiX.asb.com> X-Sender: fhaddad@unix.asb.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@facteur.std.com From: fhaddad@unix.asb.com (Fouad Haddad) Subject: Re: Clinton on Ramadan Cc: parveez@cr78ra1uk.win-uk.net X-Mailer: Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: as-salamu alaykum, The first time I read Parveez's signature-quote (which appears at the foot of all his messages) I too disliked its style but isn't its message true? Afterwards I didn't pay attention to it, and I read the Clinton post without thinking of it. Now it reminds me of the story of the sultan who stopped at the door of the masjid where he saw a pious old sufi looking at him. "O my shaykh," the sultan said from the top of his horse, "is it advisable for me to enter and pray with the people in my somptuous clothing?" The shaykh laughed and said: "The dog wallows in the mire all day, but when it comes to pee, it is careful to lift its leg so as -- only then -- not to defile itself!" >asalaam-u-aleikum > >Interestingly, I had a completely different reaction. I thought it put >the message into its proper perspective. > >Lily > > >On Wed, 24 Jan 1996 Jinavamsa@aol.com wrote: > >> >> I am not sure whether the addendum or commentary added after the end of this >> little quotation from Bill Clinton is by Parveez or not, but I find that >> addition more an expression of cynicism, insult, anger, and ill-will than one >> of sacred holy cleansing for the soul. >> If the mere mention of such is inappropriate during Ramadan I sincerely >> apologize. Please let me know. >> May Ramadan serve its honored function even though such thoughts are being >> sent out into the universe. >> Jinavamsa >> >> In a message dated 96-01-24 03:13:26 EST, you write: >> >> >>USA President Bill Clinton on Ramadan >> >> >> >>"Greetings to everyone observing the holy month of Ramadan. >> >> >> >> As the crescent moon signals the approach of this most sacred time in >> >>the Islamic year, Muslims the world over commemorate the revelation of >> >>the Koran to Muhammad. For Muslims, this marks a time of quiet >> >>reflection and religious devotion through fasting, self-examination, and >> >>intensive study of the teachings of Islam. Encouraging gratitude for >> >>our blessings and compassion for those in need, Ramadan cleanses the >> >>heart and lifts the soul. >> >> >> >>During this time of unprecedented movement toward peace in the Middle >> >>East, Muslims and people of all faiths have the opportunity to join >> >>together in creating a new world of harmony. Ramadan, with its promise >> >>of renewal, helps to nourish the spirit of brotherhood in us all. In >> >>this season of hope, let us resolve to work together for a better, >> >>brighter future -- a future in which children of every religion can live >> >>together in peace. >> >> >> >>Hillary and I offer best wishes to Muslims everywhere for a memorable >> >>observance. >> >> >> >>WILLIAM J. CLINTON >> >>19 January 1996" >> >> >> >>ends >> >> >> >> >> >>----------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>Parveez Syed's direct contact details are: >> >>One Stuart Road, Thornton Heath, Surrey CR7 8RA1 UK >> >>Tel: London-UK 44-0831-196693; >> >>Fax/tel: 44-0181-665 0384 >> >>E-Mail INTERNET: parveez@cr78ra1uk.win-uk.net >> >>----------------------------------------------------------------- >> >>Food for thought?: "In politics, as in the snake oil business, it >> >>pays to have a short memory and a chameleon-like quality. That is >> >>why the relationship between a journalist and a politician should >> >>be like the one between a dog and a lamp-post". >> >>But who is doing what to whom? One wonders ;-) >> >>----------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Wed Jan 24 20:45:31 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA18998; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 16:51:45 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id PAA14984; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 15:51:10 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id PAA14973; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 15:51:06 -0500 Received: from UNiX.asb.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA28965; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 15:40:10 -0500 Received: from asb28 (sls18.asb.com [165.254.128.28]) by UNiX.asb.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA24211; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 15:45:31 -0500 Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 15:45:31 -0500 Message-Id: <199601242045.PAA24211@UNiX.asb.com> X-Sender: fhaddad@unix.asb.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: msa-ec@world.std.com, tariqas@world.std.com From: fhaddad@unix.asb.com (Fouad Haddad) Subject: Subki's invocation of tawassul (seeking means) Cc: soc-religion-islam@telerama.lm.com X-Mailer: Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: IMAM TAQI AL-DIN SUBKI'S INVOCATION FOR TAWASSUL BI AL-NABI (S) (SEEKING THE PROPHETS AS MEANS TO GOD) Biographical note based on Nuh Keller's notice in the "Reliance": Abu al-Hasan Taqi al-Din al-Subki (683/1284-756/1355) is the son and father of illustrious scholars and jurists all of the Shafi`i school. He was a hadith master (hafiz), Koranic exegete, and Islamic judge who was described by Ibn Hajar Haythami as "the mujtahid Imam whose imamate, greatness, and having reached the level of ijtihad (competence for independent legal reasoning) are agreed upon," by Dhahabi as "the most learned, eloquent, and wise in judgment of all the shaykhs of the age," and by Sakhawi as "one of those who are named Shaykh al- Islam" along with his son Taj al-Din. Upon seeing his father `Abd al- Kafi, Imam Nawawi dismounted saying: "I cannot see al-Subki and remain mounted." Suyuti says of him: "He authored more than 150 works, his writings displaying his profound knowledge of hadith and other fields and his magisterial command of the Islamic sciences. He educated the foremost scholars of the time, was a painstaking, accurate, and penetrating researcher, and a brilliant debater in the disciplines. No previous scholar attained to his achievements in Sacred Law, of masterful inferences, subtelties in detail, and carefully worked-out methodological principles." Salah al-Din Safadi said of him: "People say that no one like him has appeared since Ghazali, though in my opinion they do him an injustice thereby, for to my mind he does not resemble anyone less than Sufyan al-Thawri." With his vast erudition, he was at the same time a godfearing ascetic in his personal life who was devoted to worship and tasawwuf, though vigilant and uncompromising in matters of religion and ready to assail any innovation or departure from the tenets of the faith of Ahl al-Sunna (People of the Way of the Prophet). The following invocation is taken from his "Fatawa" (Legal Decisions), beginning of the article entitled "The Descent of Tranquility and Peace on the Nightlights of Madina" (tanazzul al-sakina `ala qanadil al-madina) 1:274. Transliteration: al-hamdu lillahi al-ladhi as`adana bi nabiyyihi sallallahu `alayhi wa sallama sa`adatan la tabid wa ashhadu an la ilaha illallahu wahdahu la sharika lahu al-wali al-hamid wa ashhadu anna muhammadan `abduhu wa rasuluhu al-hadi ila kulli amrin rashid sallallahu `alayhi wa `ala alihi salatan taliqu bi jalalihi la tazalu ta`lu wa tazid wa sallama tasliman kathiran ila yawm al-mazid wa ba`d fa inna Allaha ya`lamu anna kulla khayrin ana fihi wa manna `alayya bihi fa huwa bi sababi al-nabi sallallahu `alayhi wa sallam wa iltija'i ilayh wa i`timadi fi tawassuli ila Allahi fi kulli umuri `alayh fa huwa wasilati ila Allahi fi al-dunya wa al-akhira wa kam lahu `alayya min ni`amin batinatin wa zahira. Translation: To God belongs all praise, Who has blessed us with his Prophet, blessings and peace be upon him, with an endless felicity. I bear witness that there is no god except God alone without partner, the protecting Friend, the Glorious. I bear witness that Muhammad is His servant and messenger, the guide to every upright matter. May God send blessings and peace upon him in a manner befitting His majesty, with a blessing rising ever higher and increasing And a superabundant greeting of peace until the Day of the increase (Day of judgment). To proceed: Verily God knows that every goodness in my life which He has bestowed upon me is on account of the Prophet (s) and that my recourse is to him And my reliance is upon him in seeking a means to God in every matter of mine. Verily he is my means to God in this world and the next. And the gifts of God I owe to him are too many to count, both the hidden and the visible. Blessings and Peace on the Prophet, his Family, and his Companions. Fouad Haddad Naqshbandi-Haqqani Foundation of Ahl al-Sunna wal-Jama`a From granger_m@WIZARD.COLORADO.EDU Wed Jan 24 17:26:35 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA02400; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 18:41:20 -0500 Received: from relay1.UU.NET by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id SAA06989; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 18:41:18 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP id QQzzxu26145; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 12:39:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from wizard.Colorado.EDU by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA24317; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 12:26:14 -0500 Received: from granger.colorado.edu by WIZARD.COLORADO.EDU (PMDF #12158) id <01I0DVPPOWWW8Y5FBN@WIZARD.COLORADO.EDU>; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 10:26 GMT Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 10:26:35 -0700 From: Mike Granger To: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Message-Id: <01I0DVPPOWWW8Y5FBN@WIZARD.COLORADO.EDU> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: granger_m@daryl.colorado.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Status: RO X-Status: subscribe tariqas granger_m@wizard.colorado.edu From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Wed Jan 24 20:45:35 1996 Received: from relay5.UU.NET by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA25827; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 00:09:57 -0500 Received: from europe.std.com by relay5.UU.NET with SMTP id QQzzyl15565; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 16:56:20 -0500 (EST) Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id PAA14989; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 15:51:12 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id PAA14978; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 15:51:08 -0500 Received: from UNiX.asb.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA29063; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 15:40:15 -0500 Received: from asb28 (sls18.asb.com [165.254.128.28]) by UNiX.asb.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA24217 for ; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 15:45:35 -0500 Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 15:45:35 -0500 Message-Id: <199601242045.PAA24217@UNiX.asb.com> X-Sender: fhaddad@unix.asb.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@world.std.com From: fhaddad@unix.asb.com (Fouad Haddad) Subject: Re: Generosity in Ramadan X-Mailer: Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: This is a public answer to a private letter with permission from the correspondent from tariqas, whom I thank for the following questions. >may this month of Ramadan echo a deep understanding of Truth >[I hope that's not inappriate a greeting; I understand that Ramadan, the 9th >month, is kept as a remembrance of the entrance of Qur'anic vision into >Muhammad. I am open to correction here --- and elsewhere.] You are correct, Ramadan is mentioned in the Qur'an as "the month of Ramadan in which was revealed the Qur'an" (2:185). >>GENEROSITY IN THE MONTH OF RAMADAN > >First and most generally: is there a deeper Sufi sense of the phenomenon of >Ramadan that goes beyond the "exoteric"/conventional Islamic one? Of course, there is a deeper sense about everything in religion, as Imam Ghazali has shown in his "Giving Life to the Sciences of Religion." I recommend the part of this work entitled "Mysteries of Fasting." >> From Ibn `Abbas (r): He said: "Allah's Messenger (s) was >> the most bounteous of people. He was at his most bounteous > >I take it that the Arabic allows Messenger to be read as either singular or >plural, and hence the ending you give to word of the s in parentheses? If >taken in the plural, what does this mean in terms of the identification of >Muhammad with Messenger in the singular? Actually (s) is the abbreviation of the Arabic formula "salla Allahu `alayhi wa sallam" which means "may God send blessings and greetings of peace upon him." Every time one utters this formula with the lips or the heart, one receives abundant blessings oneself, and the Prophet (s) promised those who say it a lot that they would be in his close company in the next life. >> in Ramadan, when Jibril would meet him, and he used to meet > >The "him" here is perhaps Muhammad? Is this a well-known story? It's told as >if so. Please see my ignorance as an openness to learning. (The more >ignorance, the more possible vast amounts of learning!) You are correct, it is the Prophet. >> him every night of Ramadan and study the Qur'an with him.* >> Allah's Messenger (s) was more bounteous at that time than >> the wind sent forth from heaven."** >> >> >>Bukhari extracted it in the first book of his "Sahih" entitled "The > >I'm not sure what extracting amounts to here. Is Bukhari the same as >Mo.hammad b. Esm^a`il al-Bo_k^ari, d. 870 (Persian transliteration)? >Diacriticals typed before letter; _k = kh. Yes. He and Imam Muslim are the greatest of all hadith narrators. The science of the narration of the Prophet's words and deeds was brought to its highest form by these two imams who painstakingly "extracted" the authentic sayings which dealt with the foundations of the religion. Extraction involves the fullest knowledge of each person in the chain of transmitters: their life, their credibility, the quality of their memorization, and any detail germane to the veracity of the hadith in the transmission of which they played a part. >>Beginning of Revelation" (bid' al-wahy). Muslim extracted it in the > >Muslim here appears to be a particular person's name. Can you tell me a bit >more, e.g., his full name? This is Muslim ibn al-Hajjaj al-Nisaburi who died in 874. In his biographical encyclopedia of the shaykhs of the Shafi`i school, Taj al-Din Subki relates that when Muslim met Bukhari he kissed his forehead and said to him: "Allow me to kiss your feet, O master of all masters." (Tabaqat al-shafi`iyya al-kubra 2:223) >>Book of Merits (fada'il), in the chapter entitled: "The Prophet (s) Was >>the Most Bounteous of People in Doing Good." >> >>*daarasa from mudaarasa, which originally means to rehearse something > >I have the 4th ed. of the Hans Wehr dictionary. In it (p. 321) I find >mudaarasa, but for the verbal root d-r-s = darasa, I don't find the idea of >rehearsing. Also, I can't find the word daarasa there. Am Iooking in the >wrong place for this? darasa is verbal form I of the verbal root d-r-s. daarasa (long first a) is verbal form III, which Wehr defines as: "to study (together with someone)." The meaning in parentheses applies when the form is used transitively, which is the case in the hadith above. >But, relevantly, in a 19th-century German work on Biblical Hebrew, Gesenius's >A Hebrew and English Lexicon of the Old Testament (Oxford U. Press), at p. >205L, with the Arabic cognate, is "darash, resort, seek (cf. Ar. darasa rub >over, efface (a site), tread (wheat), fig. read repeatedly, study; ..." and >p. 205R, "midrash: study, exposition." So I can see the idea of repeating as >was done in schools both Hebrew and Arabic ... What is the daarasa? Hebrew >beit midrash was like a school(room). Yes. note: daarasa is a verb. The noun madrasa is "school" in Arabic. >>in order not to forget it. The meaning here is that Jibril would >>alternate the rapid recitation of the Qur'an with the Prophet (s). > >Here we are back a question I posed a few weeks ago without any answer >(several responses) and am still trying to learn more about: Is there a term >for the Sufi practice of alternating back and forth between two sorts of >focus of attention? Is there a name for this rapid alternation that you are >talking about here? or for alternation in general? (What are the Arabic words >that render on a literal level the English words alternation? alternating? to >alternate?) These are two different matters. What is meant in the hadith is a mnemonic method for rehearsing a text. What I think you mean in the Sufi practice is states of alternating spiritual power/experiences. "I weep and He makes me happy. I become sober and He makes me drunk. I am rescued and He drowns me. One time He befriends me, another time He lifts me..." (Abd al-Karim Jili) >>**The wide-reaching wind whose strength endures and whose benefit is >>generalized. > >This reminds me of Genesis chapter one, when the wind/spirit/energy of Haqq >(no insult meant by mixing terminology here) was over the waters. The Hebrew >is probably the cognate of what the Arabic would be, n'est-ce pas? H. is >rua.h. (Ar. raa.h?). You are correct, the original Arabic is "al-ree.H al-mur.sa.la" >> >>Ramadan mubarak (A Blessed Ramadan)! >>Blessings and Peace on the Prophet, his Family, and his Companions >> >>Fouad Haddad >>Naqshbandi-Haqqani Foundation of Ahl al-Sunna wal-Jama`a From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu Jan 25 06:15:11 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA24236; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 01:20:53 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id BAA17735; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 01:20:51 -0500 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA22056; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 01:15:12 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id BAA17295; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 01:15:11 -0500 Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 01:15:11 -0500 Message-Id: <199601250615.BAA17295@europe.std.com> To: tariqas-approval@world.std.com From: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Subject: BOUNCE tariqas@world.std.com: Admin request Status: RO X-Status: >From habib@world.std.com Thu Jan 25 01:15:08 1996 Return-Path: Received: from relay1.UU.NET by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id BAA17276; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 01:15:08 -0500 From: IntAud@aol.com Received: from mail02.mail.aol.com by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP id QQzzzt07945; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 01:15:06 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail02.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id BAA05738 for tariqas@europe.std.com; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 01:14:59 -0500 Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 01:14:59 -0500 Message-ID: <960125000100_126485804@mail02.mail.aol.com> To: tariqas@europe.std.com Subject: subscription To whom it may concern! I'd like to subscribe to tariqasnet. Please send info. Thanks and Salams Michelle Kimball From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu Jan 25 10:32:40 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA17588; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 06:06:27 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id FAA04345; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 05:31:57 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id FAA04336; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 05:31:55 -0500 Received: from UNiX.asb.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA11819; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 05:27:02 -0500 Received: from asb11 (sls1.asb.com [165.254.128.11]) by UNiX.asb.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id FAA22357; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 05:32:40 -0500 Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 05:32:40 -0500 Message-Id: <199601251032.FAA22357@UNiX.asb.com> X-Sender: fhaddad@unix.asb.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: msa-ec@world.std.com, tariqas@world.std.com From: fhaddad@unix.asb.com (Fouad Haddad) Subject: [5] On dhikr (remembrance of God) Cc: soc-religion-islam@telerama.lm.com X-Mailer: Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: [5] ON DHIKR (from NUZHAT AL-MAJALIS) ------------------------------------- Six Benefits of Dhikr (Remembrance of God) 1. The Ranks of Dhikr One of the commentators of Qur'an said concerning God's saying: "But of them are some who wrong themselves and of them are some who are lukewarm, and of them are some who outstrip others through good deeds, by God's leave" (35:32): that they are respectively the rememberer by tongue, the rememberer by heart, and the one who never forgets his Lord. [NOTE ON SILENT DHIKR: [Hadith of the Prophet (s) on the authority of Sa`d (r): "The best dhikr is the hidden dhikr, and the best money is what suffices." It is related by Ahmad in his Musnad, Ibn Hibban in his Sahih, and Bayhaqi in Shu`ab al-iman. Nawawi said the hadith was not firmly established. [In the "Fatwa fiqhiyya" of Ibn Hajar Haythami (p. 48): He was asked about Nawawi's saying at the end of the chapter entitled "Dhikr Gatherings" in his Commentary on "Sahih Muslim": "Dhikr of the tongue with presence of the heart is preferable to dhikr of the heart [without]." Ibn Hajar said: "It is not because it is an established worship in the lexical sense [i.e. consisting in specific formulae] that dhikr of the heart is preferable, but because through it one intently means, in his heart, to exalt and magnify God above all else. That is the meaning both of the aforementioned saying of Nawawi and of the saying of some that "There is no reward in dhikr of the heart." By denying there is a reward in it, one means "in the words which are not uttered"; and by establishing that there is reward in it, one means "in the fact that the heart is present," as we have just said. Consider this, for it is important. And God knows best." [According to the Naqshbandi Sheikhs, dhikr in the heart is more useful for the murid for it is more efficient in shaking the heart from indifference and awakening it. Shah Naqshband said: "There are two methods of dhikr; one is silent and one is loud. I chose the silent one because it is stronger and therefore more preferable." [Shaykh Amin al-Kurdi al-Naqshbandi said in The Enlightenment of Hearts (Tanwir al-Qulub) p. 522: "Know that there are two kinds of dhikr: "by heart" (qalbi) and "by tongue" (lisani). Each has its legal proofs in the Qur'an and the Sunna. The dhikr by tongue, which combines sounds and letters, is not easy to perform at all times, because buying and selling and other such activities altogether divert one's attention from such dhikr. The contrary is true of the dhikr by heart, which is named that way in order to signify its freedom from letters and sounds. In that way nothing distracts one from his dhikr: with the heart remember Allah, secretly from creation, wordlessly and speechlessly. That remembrance is best of all: out of it flowed the sayings of the saints. ["That is why our Naqshbandi masters have chosen the dhikr of the heart. Moreover, the heart is the place where the Forgiver casts his gaze, and the seat of belief, and the receptacle of secrets, and the source of lights. If it is sound, the whole body is sound, and if it is unsound, the whole body is unsound, as was made clear for us by the chosen Prophet (s). ["Something that confirms this was narrated on the authority of `A'isha (r): "God favors dhikr above dhikr seventyfold (meaning, silent dhikr over loud dhikr). On the Day of Resurrection, God will bring back human beings to His account, and the Recording Angels will bring what they have recorded and written, and God Almighty will say: See if something that belongs to my servant was left out? The angels will say: We left nothing out concerning what we have learnt and recorded, except that we have assessed it and written it. God will say: O my servant, I have something good of yours for which I alone will reward you, it is your hidden remembrance of Me." Bayhaqi narrated it. ["Also on the authority of `A'isha: "The dhikr not heard by the Recording Angels equals seventy times the one they hear." Bayhaqi narrates it."] Blessings and Peace on the Prophet, his Family, and his Companions Fouad Haddad Naqshbandi-Haqqani Foundation of Ahl al-Sunna wal-Jama`a URL: http://www.best.com/~informe/mateen/haqqani.html [in 9 languages] From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Tue Jan 23 21:01:23 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA18922; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 06:15:56 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id SAA02079; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 18:22:48 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id SAA02062; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 18:22:44 -0500 From: MJVBEG@jazz.ucc.uno.edu Received: from relay5.UU.NET by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA14757; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 18:19:06 -0500 Received: from jazz.ucc.uno.edu by relay5.UU.NET with ESMTP id QQzzuz26041; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 18:19:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from jazz.ucc.uno.edu by jazz.ucc.uno.edu (PMDF V5.0-4 #11893) id <01I0CQNJK3XO90TTYK@jazz.ucc.uno.edu> for TARIQAS@WORLD.STD.COM; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 15:01:23 -0600 (CST) Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 15:01:23 -0600 (CST) Subject: The Brain/Mind To: TARIQAS@world.std.com Message-Id: <01I0CQNJKDKU90TTYK@jazz.ucc.uno.edu> X-Vms-To: TARIQAS Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Speaking about the brain can lead to dangerous paths, especially when we speak metaphorically about it, to make of it what we will. I am reminded of Maxime Rodinson's *Mohammed*, where we tells us his readers that he himself, were he not a throughgoing atheist, would be a Muslim ("If not Moses--then Mohammed."). But he actually believes that people like Muhammud, Jesus, Moses, Abraham, are theopathic: that is, people who are so obsessed and consumed by the big questions of life that their brain/mind splits on itself, solving the big questions through self-sent dreams, hallucinations, visions, appartitions, imagined conversations. So Rodinson ipts for a specific culture rather than a specific belief, even while believing that The Holy Qur'aan is the closest Kitab/Kitav to real the real sense of the term *revelation* that has ever been encountered. =Mackie Blanton= From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Wed Jan 24 00:36:08 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA21119; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 06:27:13 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id TAA08448; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 19:36:09 -0500 Received: from xs1.xs4all.nl by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id TAA08429; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 19:36:03 -0500 Received: by xs1.xs4all.nl id AA01570 (5.67b/IDA-1.5 for tariqas@europe.std.com); Wed, 24 Jan 1996 01:36:08 +0100 From: tommyboy Message-Id: <199601240036.AA01570@xs1.xs4all.nl> Subject: Re: Musical danger To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 01:36:08 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <9601231853.AA09551@kirin.Tymnet.COM> from "Michael J. Moore" at Jan 23, 96 10:53:34 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 403 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: > Feelings? emotion? what is the difference? > > Music can keep people in their slumber. If taken, it should be prescribed > by somebody who knows. IMHO The danger of music should not be > underestimated. > > -Michael- What kind of danger do you have in mind? Demonic messages when played backwards? And by whom should it prescribed? I'm sorry Michael...i just don't understand your reply. Thomas From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Tue Jan 23 23:13:56 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA21746; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 06:30:58 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id SAA01357; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 18:16:58 -0500 Received: from relay3.UU.NET by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id SAA01352; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 18:16:56 -0500 From: Jinavamsa@aol.com Received: from mail06.mail.aol.com by relay3.UU.NET with SMTP id QQzzuz25885; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 18:16:42 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail06.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id SAA13175 for tariqas@europe.std.com; Tue, 23 Jan 1996 18:13:56 -0500 Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 18:13:56 -0500 Message-Id: <960123181154_204882530@mail06.mail.aol.com> To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: Judiaisn, Christianity, Islam and war: The Lie Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: dear Sister Natalie, for a bit of "rambling", your post is radiating with love and truth, and may it be so, this month and at all times, thank you, Jinavamsa In a message dated 96-01-23 09:52:18 EST, you write: >Salaam Alaikum: > I realize that my reply is a little late, but I have become lazy >in checking my e-mail messages. Anyway, I just wanted to support you >in your attitude of non violence. It is sad that more of our brothers >and sisters do not take such a stance. We do so much violence to each >other through judging each other and not accepting that we are all on the >same path although each may be at a different place on the path. I used >to think that anger and hatred was justified and an acceptable way to >live. It is not. It only eats you up. How can anyone truly accept the >beauty and forgiveness of The Source of Beauty and Forgiveness if he/she >is tainted by the pollution of hate? If we are truly to be followers of >Muhammad, if he is our example, we should try our best to not react in >a violent manner. It was not his way. > I'm tired, so I'm babbling. What I have realized from my vague >knowledge of history and my observation of the present situation of >the world is that the history of our species has been one of violence. >Well, we can see how far that has gotten us. I'm just sick of pain, >war, and murder. None of the great religious teachers preached this. >I beg Allah's forgiveness for how far we have strayed. > Ramadhan Kareem! > Sister Natalie From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Wed Jan 24 16:53:09 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA22988; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 06:39:43 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id LAA04880; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 11:53:15 -0500 Received: from emout05.mail.aol.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id LAA04861; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 11:53:10 -0500 From: Jinavamsa@aol.com Received: by emout05.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA14057 for tariqas@europe.std.com; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 11:53:09 -0500 Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 11:53:09 -0500 Message-Id: <960124115300_303161547@emout05.mail.aol.com> To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: Clinton on Ramadan Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: I am not sure whether the addendum or commentary added after the end of this little quotation from Bill Clinton is by Parveez or not, but I find that addition more an expression of cynicism, insult, anger, and ill-will than one of sacred holy cleansing for the soul. If the mere mention of such is inappropriate during Ramadan I sincerely apologize. Please let me know. May Ramadan serve its honored function even though such thoughts are being sent out into the universe. Jinavamsa In a message dated 96-01-24 03:13:26 EST, you write: >>USA President Bill Clinton on Ramadan >> >>"Greetings to everyone observing the holy month of Ramadan. >> >> As the crescent moon signals the approach of this most sacred time in >>the Islamic year, Muslims the world over commemorate the revelation of >>the Koran to Muhammad. For Muslims, this marks a time of quiet >>reflection and religious devotion through fasting, self-examination, and >>intensive study of the teachings of Islam. Encouraging gratitude for >>our blessings and compassion for those in need, Ramadan cleanses the >>heart and lifts the soul. >> >>During this time of unprecedented movement toward peace in the Middle >>East, Muslims and people of all faiths have the opportunity to join >>together in creating a new world of harmony. Ramadan, with its promise >>of renewal, helps to nourish the spirit of brotherhood in us all. In >>this season of hope, let us resolve to work together for a better, >>brighter future -- a future in which children of every religion can live >>together in peace. >> >>Hillary and I offer best wishes to Muslims everywhere for a memorable >>observance. >> >>WILLIAM J. CLINTON >>19 January 1996" >> >>ends >> >> >>----------------------------------------------------------------- >>Parveez Syed's direct contact details are: >>One Stuart Road, Thornton Heath, Surrey CR7 8RA1 UK >>Tel: London-UK 44-0831-196693; >>Fax/tel: 44-0181-665 0384 >>E-Mail INTERNET: parveez@cr78ra1uk.win-uk.net >>----------------------------------------------------------------- >>Food for thought?: "In politics, as in the snake oil business, it >>pays to have a short memory and a chameleon-like quality. That is >>why the relationship between a journalist and a politician should >>be like the one between a dog and a lamp-post". >>But who is doing what to whom? One wonders ;-) >>----------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Wed Jan 24 17:19:15 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA29518; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 07:13:39 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id MAA08574; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 12:19:20 -0500 Received: from tymix.Tymnet.COM by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id MAA08504; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 12:19:13 -0500 Received: by tymix.Tymnet.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA22773; Wed, 24 Jan 96 09:18:53 PST Received: from antares by tymix.Tymnet.COM (in.smtpd); 24 Jan 96 9:18:52 PST Received: from kirin.Tymnet.COM by antares.Tymnet.COM (8.6.5/UCB) id JAA15319; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 09:18:50 -0800 Received: by kirin.Tymnet.COM (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA09987; Wed, 24 Jan 1996 09:19:15 -0800 Date: Wed, 24 Jan 1996 09:19:15 -0800 From: mmoore@antares.Tymnet.COM (Michael J. Moore) Message-Id: <9601241719.AA09987@kirin.Tymnet.COM> To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: Musical danger X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: > > Please can you tell me the meaning of IMHO?(ref to your reply to my message)i must > confess i do not understand, but i am not a native speaker of English... > > You also write :" the danger of music should not be underestimated". Thanks for attracting > attention onto this, but i would like to add that the spiritual possibilities within music should > also not be underestimated. > Thank you, Michael > Rabi > As-salam-alaykum Rabi, IMHO stands for 'in my humble opinion'. Some people say that people who make claims to being humble are not. But I mean it with all the honesty I can muster. If I sometimes appear arrogant, it is only because I am. ;-) Your lucidation of the difference between feelings and emotion was still a bit fuzzy to me. But, since there is an experiencial element involved I guess that I will just have to experience it to understand fully. Disclaimer: The following is the way I see it, your life may vary. As for music, your point is well taken but I think it is a good idea to look at the big picture. What music is being listened to by the most people? What is POP music. I dont have any real facts and figures, but I think that most people listen to Rock or Country, or Jazz, or Clasical or Folk music. Rock music is infameous for it's bad attitude towards life in general and it's glorification of sex and shallow relationships. Sure, there is some good rock music that might have an uplifting message, but most of it is very negative and tells us 'how it is'. This is brain washing. Country music also tells us to think in a particular way. Clasical music can inspire intence nationalistic feelings. Look at the great German Opras of Wagner. Why is there so much music in the military? All of this music yanks people around by the emotions. It Gets them to say 'Hurray, my country is great and to hell with those guys'. Or 'She's looking better every beer.' Or 'love the one your with.' And then there is Rap music. The general message seems to be "I've been cheated, I've been wronged and somebody is going to pay so don't mess with me because I will attack you." Now don't get me wrong, I love music. Too much in fact. I was a music major for my first two years in College. I've played in rock bands, jazz bands, I have synthesizers and midi computers. I've spent most of my life distracted by music. Nothing alters the mood like music except maybe sex and drugs and I love those to. But now I see all these things for what they are. Dunya soporifics. This is why I say that music should be prescribed by somebody who knows. He/she must know your current station and what will benifit you. Prescribing your own music is like prescribing your own drugs. If you don't have the training, it is dangerous on the path. If you are not on a path, then you are going to be yanked around like a bull with a ring in his nose anyway, so it might as well be by music. If you must listen to music then listen to music that has little or no message, preferably no lyrics (IMHO) it is safer. If you happen to hear some music, don't worry about it. I am only talking about people who actively seek out and listen to music for hours on end. -Michael- From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu Jan 25 14:37:46 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA14407; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 09:42:17 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id JAA24052; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 09:42:16 -0500 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA12005; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 09:37:47 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id JAA23296; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 09:37:46 -0500 Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 09:37:46 -0500 Message-Id: <199601251437.JAA23296@europe.std.com> To: tariqas-approval@world.std.com From: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Subject: BOUNCE tariqas@world.std.com: Admin request Status: RO X-Status: >From habib@world.std.com Thu Jan 25 09:37:44 1996 Return-Path: Received: from merlion.singnet.com.sg by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id JAA23266; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 09:37:38 -0500 Received: from yemimt (ts900-1001.singnet.com.sg [165.21.5.21]) by merlion.singnet.com.sg (8.6.12/8.6.11) with SMTP id WAA10020 for ; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 22:37:34 +0800 Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 22:37:34 +0800 Message-Id: <199601251437.WAA10020@merlion.singnet.com.sg> X-Sender: yemimt@merlion.singnet.com.sg X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@europe.std.com From: yemimt@singnet.com.sg (Dr Mohamed Tahir) Unsubscribe Its time to get things started..... on the most sensational inspirational celebrational muppetational... This is what we call the Muppet Show!!!! Brought to you by : Jim Henson Productions From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu Jan 25 14:31:24 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA06457; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 10:10:48 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id JAA22563; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 09:31:28 -0500 Received: from acad1.cc.uleth.ca by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id JAA22552; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 09:31:17 -0500 From: pavlna@hg.uleth.ca Received: by hg.uleth.ca (MX V4.2 VAX) id 46; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 07:31:24 MST Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 07:31:24 MST To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Message-Id: <0099CE7F.980A97E2.46@hg.uleth.ca> Subject: Re: Musical danger Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: I guess it depends on the kind of music you listen to. Sure, if you listen to "modern" music, the bad influences come pretty easily. However, listening to Verdi, Puccini, or Mozart reminds me of the existence of beauty in this often ugly world we live in. This reminder of beauty reminds me of the Source of All Beauty. In the words of Beethoven: "When I open my eyes I must sigh, for what I see is contrary to my religiion, and I must despise the world which does not know that music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy,.... I have not a single friend, I must live alone. But well I know that God is nearer to me than to other artists; I associate with Him without fear; I have always recognized and understood Him and have no fear for my music-it can meet no evil fate. Those who understand it must be freed by it from all the miseries which the others drag about with themselves. Music, verily, is the mediator between intellectual and sensuous life....I am right in saying that music is the one incorporeal entrance into the higher world of knowledge which comprehends mankind but which mankind cannot comprehend." I don't necessarily agree with all he says but he raises a number of interesting points. Sister Natalie From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu Jan 25 16:47:10 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA09715; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 12:34:49 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id LAA13420; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 11:49:00 -0500 Received: from epix.net by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id LAA13411; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 11:48:57 -0500 Received: from .epix.net (lwbyppp76.epix.net [199.224.69.76]) by epix.net (8.7.1/8.7) with SMTP id LAA16135 for ; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 11:47:32 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <199601251647.LAA16135@epix.net> From: sarmad@epix.net (James Brody) To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Renga: *LIGHT* + 1 Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 16:47:10 GMT References: <01I0DBCBMZR690UVPH@jazz.ucc.uno.edu> X-Mailer: Forte Agent .99b.112 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: On Wed, 24 Jan 1996 00:44:31 -0600 (CST), you wrote: > > > Illumination > is the goal of everyone > what a glow we'll make Tansen-Muni > > > Inter-light > spills forth from within > enlightening the world from without Ruthie Roberts > > > Transect horizons > journey of sunrise, sunset > Starry Milky Way desert donkey > > > where there is darkness > winter has surrendered > so the spring can rise Jabriel > > > The inner light shines > From the eyes, the windows of > The soul. Keep shining! mikail davenport > > > I dreamt my deathbed > spilled my body onto floor; > "I" burst into light. Noor in MN. > > > Night fog, morning dew > Seeing all things as they are > A lifting of veils Jelaludin Roberts > > > Imagine we are > snowflakes evaporating > in the light of the One Candace > > > winter light shines clear > from more than one direction > we are all backlit Junnaiyd Moore > > > You can be the candle > which brings the light > or the mirror which reflects it. Michael Gest > > > Warm Asha ravished > by the lights of tariqas: Mackie > Salaat's last gleaming. > Eyes closed--each cell coruscates; Eyes open-forms held by intrinsic light. Abraham Sarmad What a dance!> > > > > > > > > > > > > From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu Jan 25 16:48:16 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA12062; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 12:38:28 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id LAA13370; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 11:48:38 -0500 Received: from indy87.gclab.missouri.edu by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id LAA13349; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 11:48:28 -0500 Received: (from c640429@localhost) by indy87.gclab.missouri.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA03394; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 10:48:17 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 10:48:16 -0600 (CST) From: Jawad Qureshi X-Sender: c640429@indy87.gclab.missouri.edu To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Cc: msa-ec@world.std.com, tariqas@world.std.com, soc-religion-islam@telerama.lm.com Subject: Re: [5] On dhikr (remembrance of God) In-Reply-To: <199601251032.FAA22357@UNiX.asb.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Assalamo alaikum brother Fouad, and Ramadhan Mubarak! I liked your post on dhikr quite a lot, but I have one question: this post seemed to emphasize the silent dhikr a lot and conclusively gave proofs for its greatness. The question then, is why do the Haqqani branch of this great tariqa do dhikr loud? I was at the Mawlid, and there were 500 brothers doing the loud dhikr, and they nearly bought the Masjid down because it was so loud!! It was an amazing experience, but I was wondering, after reading this post, why the Haqqani brothers do it so loud? One reason that I thought was that a lot of the murids are new in the tariqa and new Muslims, and it might be hard for them to do the silent. With the loud one, they can learn the dhikr, etc. Just a thought, though . . . Any reply would be appreciated, Salam, Jawad. From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu Jan 25 16:48:16 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA12952; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 12:39:26 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id LAA14501; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 11:56:06 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id LAA14454; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 11:55:54 -0500 Received: from indy87.gclab.missouri.edu by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA06398; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 11:50:03 -0500 Received: (from c640429@localhost) by indy87.gclab.missouri.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA03394; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 10:48:17 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 10:48:16 -0600 (CST) From: Jawad Qureshi X-Sender: c640429@indy87.gclab.missouri.edu To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Cc: msa-ec@world.std.com, tariqas@world.std.com, soc-religion-islam@telerama.lm.com Subject: Re: [5] On dhikr (remembrance of God) In-Reply-To: <199601251032.FAA22357@UNiX.asb.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Assalamo alaikum brother Fouad, and Ramadhan Mubarak! I liked your post on dhikr quite a lot, but I have one question: this post seemed to emphasize the silent dhikr a lot and conclusively gave proofs for its greatness. The question then, is why do the Haqqani branch of this great tariqa do dhikr loud? I was at the Mawlid, and there were 500 brothers doing the loud dhikr, and they nearly bought the Masjid down because it was so loud!! It was an amazing experience, but I was wondering, after reading this post, why the Haqqani brothers do it so loud? One reason that I thought was that a lot of the murids are new in the tariqa and new Muslims, and it might be hard for them to do the silent. With the loud one, they can learn the dhikr, etc. Just a thought, though . . . Any reply would be appreciated, Salam, Jawad. From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu Jan 25 17:22:52 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA11915; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 13:39:42 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id MAA21919; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 12:49:01 -0500 Received: from tymix.Tymnet.COM by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id MAA21902; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 12:48:56 -0500 Received: by tymix.Tymnet.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA11864; Thu, 25 Jan 96 09:48:55 PST Received: from antares by tymix.Tymnet.COM (in.smtpd); 25 Jan 96 9:48:54 PST Received: from kirin.Tymnet.COM by antares.Tymnet.COM (8.6.5/UCB) id JAA01691; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 09:22:25 -0800 Received: by kirin.Tymnet.COM (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA10445; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 09:22:52 -0800 Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 09:22:52 -0800 From: mmoore@antares.Tymnet.COM (Michael J. Moore) Message-Id: <9601251722.AA10445@kirin.Tymnet.COM> To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: Musical danger X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: > I guess it depends on the kind of music you listen to. Sure, if > you listen to "modern" music, the bad influences come pretty easily. > However, listening to Verdi, Puccini, or Mozart reminds me of the > existence of beauty in this often ugly world we live in. This reminder > of beauty reminds me of the Source of All Beauty. > Sister Natalie > Dear Sister Natalie, Isn't Shaytun the most beautiful of Allah's creations. What do we find at the source of a beautiful river -- a small puddle of mud. If you step into it, you may get stuck. To find Allah, we must transform ugly into beauty. Not outside but inside. We must transform our impressions. Not place musical vales on painful impressions . And if we cannot transform our impressions then we should gaurd against harmful ones. If everything is not beauty then nothing can be beauty. Who can sustain both pleasure and pain? The pain will always win. A traveler cannot take sanctuary in beauty. We must become sutable containers and then maybe Allah will fill us with beauty that is beyond beauty. So, Sister Natalie, I see now that this is a message for me and perhaps not for you. Maybe others will find something of value in it. -Brother Michael- From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu Jan 25 18:07:40 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA02453; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 14:07:37 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id NAA24710; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 13:06:54 -0500 Received: from cwis.unomaha.edu by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id NAA24705; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 13:06:51 -0500 Received: by cwis.unomaha.edu (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA29542; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 12:07:41 -0600 Message-Id: <9601251807.AA29542@cwis.unomaha.edu> Subject: Re: Subki's invocation of tawassul (seeking means) To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 12:07:40 -0600 (CST) From: Richard Bennett In-Reply-To: from "Moustafa Elqabbany" at Jan 25, 96 08:15:04 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 3642 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: 786 asalaam, > > Assalamu alaikum: > > I just want to warn some of the brothers and sisters on this mailing list > concerning the deception of the Naqshbandis. Like the Habashis, they claim > to be Ahlus-Sunnah wal Jamaa`ah, whereas they are merely an attempt to > divide Sunnis. They are better than the Habashis in terms of their public > relations, but they nonetheless have deviated beliefs. dear brother: i don't see any deception on their part nor do i see them as a divisive force among sunni muslims. i too used to look at sufis in the light that most arabs do...i used to think of them as innovators, deviators, grave worshippers etc. then i went to pakistan and met and talked with 2 sufis. i must admit that after meeting them i found them to be the most pious, righteous and pure muslims i have had the pleasure to meet...and i have met quite a number. i challenge you to meet with and talk to a true sufi...you will be in awe by their appearance, manner, knowledge and sincerity. i have and don't think that i ever will meet individuals of their caliber. i'm sure that you will be impresed with them if you were to give up whatever anti-sufi propaganda your government-appointed, islamic-revisionist scholars have taught you. sufi beliefs are not deviated beliefs, they're beliefs are islam in its purest form...with the important spiritual component not left by the wayside. no wonder it is so hard for all of you to perform extra prayers, fasts, zikr, tahajud, moraqaba, breathing exercises, vigils...your hearts are not filled with love for Allah...these practices foster that love and make it easy for one to draw closer to him. orthodox revisionists (mind you that orthodoxy is NOT incompatable with sufism) don't even touch the outer skin of shariah and the result is all of the hatred, pride,prejudice, jealousy, backbiting, suspicion and outright HYPOCRISY that is endemic in the muslim population. we as sufis reject your hatred of your fellow muslim brothers be they sufi or not... i personally left the msa-net for precisely that reason... they are your brothers not deviant dervishes who are hell-bent on destroying islam. if you don't know anything about sufism then keep quiet and we will be happy to teach you. but if you are too proud to learn from us then we politely request that you keep your comments to yourself and off of this net. > > I've argued with two prominent Naqshbandis on the internet (through personal > email, so I won't reveal their names), and I've found on at least one > occasion that ***THERE REFERENCES WERE FAKE***. (It was the only time I > bothered checking their references.) We were arguing about celebration > of the Prophet's birthday (may the blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) > and I found that the references provided were made up. > > I believe in a basic principle: assume ignorance before malice. The > Naqshbandis, I assume, are misleading people due to ignorance, not due to > malice. However, they are nonetheless responsible for their actions. brother, it is a sin in Islam to pass judgement between two people if you have heard one side of the story without hearing the other side as well. so if you are asking us to pass judgement, we, as parcticing muslims, are compelled to hear the whole argument...not just what you say. > > BTW, don't bother calling me a "Wahhabi", because I'm not. Actually, the > scholar I attend lessons with is Hanafi.> > Salaam, > Moustafa > brother moustafa, why would i call you wahhabi?? i don't know you..i can't say that. BTW, why all of the suspicion??? wasalaam, abdul ghani From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu Jan 25 19:12:36 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA24215; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 14:45:43 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id OAA01927; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 14:07:03 -0500 Received: from UNiX.asb.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id OAA01903; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 14:06:54 -0500 Received: from asb19 (sls9.asb.com [165.254.128.19]) by UNiX.asb.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA28667; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 14:12:36 -0500 Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 14:12:36 -0500 Message-Id: <199601251912.OAA28667@UNiX.asb.com> X-Sender: fhaddad@unix.asb.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@facteur.std.com, msa-ec@world.std.com From: fhaddad@unix.asb.com (Fouad Haddad) Subject: Re: [5] On dhikr (remembrance of God) Cc: soc-religion-islam@telerama.lm.com X-Mailer: Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: >Assalamo alaikum brother Fouad, and Ramadhan Mubarak! >I liked your post on dhikr quite a lot, but I have one question: this >post seemed to emphasize the silent dhikr a lot and conclusively gave >proofs for its greatness. The question then, is why do the Haqqani >branch of this great tariqa do dhikr loud? [deleted] >Salam, >Jawad. wa alaykum as-salam, thank you for your question, The rest of your post answers the question: the loud dhikr has a didactic purpose. Also, the Naqshbandi shaykhs have never been bound by their own predilections. They traditionally use the method that is best according to place, time, and temperament. Finally, the superiority of the silent over the loud dhikr does not preclude the use of the latter. The silent way requires more concentration. In any case, it is is not the shaykhs which follow the path but the path which follows the shaykh. We tend to expect the shaykhs to follow the path because we bring them down to our own level. Allahu a`lam (God knows best). Ramadan karim. Fouad From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu Jan 25 18:42:05 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA24203; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 14:45:42 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id OAA01492; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 14:03:02 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id OAA01485; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 14:02:59 -0500 Received: from halon.sybase.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA24933; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 13:55:10 -0500 Received: from sybase.sybase.com (nntp1.sybase.com) by halon.sybase.com (5.x/SMI-SVR4/SybFW4.0) id AA28782; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 10:55:21 -0800 Received: from serii.sybase.com ([158.159.40.63]) by sybase.sybase.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/SybH3.4) id AA05154; Thu, 25 Jan 96 10:55:07 PST Received: by serii.sybase.com (5.x/SMI-4.1/SybEC3.2) id AA09931; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 10:42:05 -0800 Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 10:42:05 -0800 From: mateens@sybase.com (Mateen Siddiqui) Message-Id: <9601251842.AA09931@serii.sybase.com> To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: Accusations of falsifying references X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Dear brother Qabbany, as-salaam alaykum. I assume the "incident" you are referring to is the one in which you asked me privately for the references to the quotes in an article on the mawlid by my shaykh, Shaykh Hisham Kabbani. At the time I did not feel like going into an argument with you and said so and therefore did not give you the references (other than what were clearly quoted in the article). That is quite different from them "being fake." I only say one thing to this as it is Ramadan: "innee saim", ("I am fasting") and ask you to withdraw this accusation please. peace be upon you, --mateen siddiqui __________________________________________________________________ Naqshbandi-Haqqani Foundation for Ahl as-Sunnah wal-Jama'at URL:http://www.best.com/~informe/haqqani/ [in 9 languages] Euro-Mirror site URL:http://www.zakat.org.uk/haqqani/haqqani.html From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu Jan 25 19:07:41 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA25214; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 14:47:11 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id OAB02259; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 14:08:34 -0500 Received: from WIZARD.COLORADO.EDU by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id OAA02237; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 14:08:24 -0500 Received: from granger.colorado.edu by WIZARD.COLORADO.EDU (PMDF #12158) id <01I0FDJEM3BK8Y5K1U@WIZARD.COLORADO.EDU>; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 12:08 GMT Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 12:07:41 -0700 From: Mike Granger Subject: RE: Musical danger To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Message-Id: <01I0FDJEM3BK8Y5K1U@WIZARD.COLORADO.EDU> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: granger_m@daryl.colorado.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: At 07:31 AM 1/25/96 MST, you wrote: > I guess it depends on the kind of music you listen to. Sure, if >you listen to "modern" music, the bad influences come pretty easily. >However, listening to Verdi, Puccini, or Mozart reminds me of the >existence of beauty in this often ugly world we live in. This reminder >of beauty reminds me of the Source of All Beauty. In the words of >Beethoven: ***stuff deleted*** Salams to everyone. I've been out of the group for a while and just popped back in. I see that there's another discussin going on about music, assumably about whether it's good or bad for a person's spiritual progress and evolution. I think that the right answer is probably that it can (and I'm just assuming we're talking about "acceptable" music, and not rock, blues, jazz, etc.,) be anything from very destructive to very helpful. It is my contention, though, that it is generally unlikely that the student can know whether the music they listen to is truly helping or not. Music works at a fairly low level of our psyche, and just like other "low level" items that we use to satisfy our Nafs, such as food or sex, music for the most part simply invokes a lower level emotional tranquility and pleasure. Whether a particular type or piece of music can truly produce "higher level" advancement or not, can probably be known only by an advanced Teacher who specifically has had some of his own experience with music as a spiritual tool. Personally, I can say without a doubt that in the very beginning of my own journey, music played an important role. It served to lift my Spirit and pry the door of my Heart open, allowing me to eventually meet my Shaykh. That was a long time ago, though, and although I do still listen to a moderate amount of music, I couldn't say definetely whether the various types of music that I enjoy are harmful, beneficial, or just having no effect in terms of my spiritual advancement (or degradation!). Of course, if music happens to be part of a specific Tariqas' Dhikr, then certainly it must be beneficial, in the sense that it is used as a sort of enzyme to help along the dynamics of that Dhikr. Any comments? Abdassalam Granger From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu Jan 25 18:37:53 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA02196; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 14:56:10 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id NAA29547; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 13:51:09 -0500 Received: from halon.sybase.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id NAA29537; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 13:51:05 -0500 Received: from sybase.sybase.com (nntp1.sybase.com) by halon.sybase.com (5.x/SMI-SVR4/SybFW4.0) id AA27696; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 10:51:08 -0800 Received: from serii.sybase.com ([158.159.40.63]) by sybase.sybase.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/SybH3.4) id AA04151; Thu, 25 Jan 96 10:50:54 PST Received: by serii.sybase.com (5.x/SMI-4.1/SybEC3.2) id AA09921; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 10:37:53 -0800 Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 10:37:53 -0800 From: mateens@sybase.com (Mateen Siddiqui) Message-Id: <9601251837.AA09921@serii.sybase.com> To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: [5] On dhikr (remembrance of God) X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Dear Jawad, wa alaykum salaam, wa Ramadan Kareem, You are right in your assumption. In Damascus and Cyprus, or when done among a group consisting of "old" Muslims (as opposed to "new" Muslims :-), the dhikr is done in the traditional Naqshbandi silent manner, with the count being done on fingers and stones. However, in order to increase its tajalli and magnificence for those who neither know Arabic nor have memorized the Qur'anic chapters and verses used in the dhikr, and in order for new attendees and converts to learn them, Mawlana Shaykh Nazim and Shaykh Hisham do the dhikr aloud. Perhaps Fouad will amplify on this. Ramadan Kareem, --mateen siddiqui __________________________________________________________________ Naqshbandi-Haqqani Foundation for Ahl as-Sunnah wal-Jama'at URL:http://www.best.com/~informe/haqqani/ [in 9 languages] Euro-Mirror site URL:http://www.zakat.org.uk/haqqani/haqqani.html From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu Jan 25 17:39:56 1996 Received: from relay6.UU.NET by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA00404; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 15:38:47 -0500 Received: from europe.std.com by relay6.UU.NET with SMTP id QQaabp29340; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 13:27:18 -0500 (EST) Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id MAA20678; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 12:39:42 -0500 Received: from tymix.Tymnet.COM by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id MAA20667; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 12:39:37 -0500 Received: by tymix.Tymnet.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA10543; Thu, 25 Jan 96 09:39:32 PST Received: from antares by tymix.Tymnet.COM (in.smtpd); 25 Jan 96 9:39:31 PST Received: from kirin.Tymnet.COM by antares.Tymnet.COM (8.6.5/UCB) id JAA01897; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 09:39:30 -0800 Received: by kirin.Tymnet.COM (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA10448; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 09:39:56 -0800 Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 09:39:56 -0800 From: mmoore@antares.Tymnet.COM (Michael J. Moore) Message-Id: <9601251739.AA10448@kirin.Tymnet.COM> To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: Subki's invocation of tawassul (seeking means) X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: > Assalamu alaikum: > > I just want to warn some of the brothers and sisters on this mailing list > concerning the deception of the Naqshbandis. Like the Habashis, they claim > to be Ahlus-Sunnah wal Jamaa`ah, whereas they are merely an attempt to > divide Sunnis. They are better than the Habashis in terms of their public > relations, but they nonetheless have deviated beliefs. > > I've argued with two prominent Naqshbandis on the internet (through personal > email, so I won't reveal their names), and I've found on at least one > occasion that ***THERE REFERENCES WERE FAKE***. (It was the only time I > bothered checking their references.) We were arguing about celebration > of the Prophet's birthday (may the blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) > and I found that the references provided were made up. > Salaam, > Moustafa You should read a book called "Why I'm not a Muslim" by Ibn Warrshaq (sp). Your will find scholarly proof that your whole religion is 'made up'. Will you believe this too? -Michael- From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu Jan 25 20:08:15 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA08892; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 15:51:06 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id PAA09869; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 15:08:00 -0500 Received: from tymix.Tymnet.COM by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id PAA09836; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 15:07:52 -0500 Received: by tymix.Tymnet.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA02408; Thu, 25 Jan 96 12:07:50 PST Received: from antares by tymix.Tymnet.COM (in.smtpd); 25 Jan 96 12:07:50 PST Received: from kirin.Tymnet.COM by antares.Tymnet.COM (8.6.5/UCB) id MAA03820; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 12:07:49 -0800 Received: by kirin.Tymnet.COM (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA10487; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 12:08:15 -0800 Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 12:08:15 -0800 From: mmoore@antares.Tymnet.COM (Michael J. Moore) Message-Id: <9601252008.AA10487@kirin.Tymnet.COM> To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Salat with shoes on? X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: I found this at http://cswww2.essex.ac.uk/users/rafiam/Intro.frame_22.html#HEADING21. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 5.3 Prayer Wearing Shoes and the Command to do so "He used to stand (in prayer) bare-footed sometimes and wearing shoes sometimes."28 He allowed this for his ummah, saying: When one of you prays, he should wear his shoes or take them off and put them between his feet, and not harm others with them.29 He encouraged prayer wearing them sometimes, saying: Be different from the Jews, for they do not pray in their shoes nor in their khuffs (leather socks).30 Occasionally he would remove them from his feet while in prayer and then continue his prayer, as Abu Sa'eed al-Khudri has said: "The Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu `alaihi wa sallam) prayed with us one day. Whilst he was engaged in the prayer he took off his shoes and placed them on his left. When the people saw this, they took off their shoes. When he finished his prayer he said, Why did you take your shoes off? They said, `We saw you taking your shoes off, so we took our shoes off.' He said, Verily Jibreel came to me and informed me that there was dirt - or he said: something harmful - (in another narration: filth)on my shoes, so I took them off. Therefore, when one of you goes to the mosque, he should look at his shoes: if he sees in them dirt - or he said: something harmful - (in another narration: filth) he should wipe them and pray in them.31 "When he removed them, he would place them on his left"32 and he would also say: When one of you prays, he should not place his shoes on his right nor on his left, where they will be on someone else's right, except if there is no one on his left, but he should place them between his feet.33 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Is there even one Muslim who follows this? Is there some reason why not? I found this to be very strange. -Michael- From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu Jan 25 22:43:47 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA25942; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 18:45:12 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id RAA24870; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 17:53:04 -0500 Received: from WIZARD.COLORADO.EDU by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id RAA24641; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 17:41:54 -0500 Received: from granger.colorado.edu by WIZARD.COLORADO.EDU (PMDF #12158) id <01I0FL3B9B1W8Y5KX6@WIZARD.COLORADO.EDU>; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 15:44 GMT Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 15:43:47 -0700 From: Mike Granger Subject: RE: Salat with shoes on? To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Message-Id: <01I0FL3B9B1W8Y5KX6@WIZARD.COLORADO.EDU> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Sender: granger_m@daryl.colorado.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: At 01:02 PM 1/25/96 -0800, you wrote: >I have always removed my shoes and left them either outside the door to >the masjid or just inside on a rack. Does anyone out there know what one >should do if they are required to wear shoes at all times because of a >disabling foot disorder when it is time for salat? I have been told to >even wear my shoes indoors...and it is very hard to get used to! > >Jamilla > What I'm wondering is, what if the person had very smelly feet? Since it is extremely frowned upon to bring bad odors into a Masjid, what would such a person do? Perhaps there are no Muslims with very smelly feet, since those who are praying should be washing their feet 5 times daily. As far as other reasons that would indicate a necessity to keep one's shoes on, Islam makes things simple, and the simple answer here would be that you must make sure that they are as clean as possible, especially free of any visible matter. Would it be intruding of me to ask why you've been told to keep your shoes on indoors? Abdassalam Granger From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu Jan 25 20:41:10 1996 Received: from relay1.UU.NET by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA29461; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 18:52:22 -0500 Received: from europe.std.com by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP id QQaach03796; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 17:48:01 -0500 (EST) Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id QAA22673; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 16:29:57 -0500 Received: from jazz.ucc.uno.edu by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id QAA22665; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 16:29:52 -0500 From: MJVBEG@jazz.ucc.uno.edu Received: from jazz.ucc.uno.edu by jazz.ucc.uno.edu (PMDF V5.0-4 #11893) id <01I0FISTUQE490VYXR@jazz.ucc.uno.edu> for tariqas@facteur.std.com; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 14:41:10 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 14:41:10 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: Musical danger To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Message-Id: <01I0FISTUQE690VYXR@jazz.ucc.uno.edu> X-Vms-To: IN%"tariqas@facteur.std.com" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Just how canonical is Brother Michael's belief that "Shaytun [is] the most beautiful of Allah's creations."? By "canonical," I mean, Where in The Holy Qur'aan, the Sacred Hadiith, and the Sacred Sunnah may we find such a teaching? =Mackie Blanton= From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu Jan 25 22:41:29 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA00041; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 18:53:34 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id RAA24855; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 17:53:02 -0500 Received: from tymix.Tymnet.COM by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id RAA24613; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 17:41:09 -0500 Received: by tymix.Tymnet.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA23833; Thu, 25 Jan 96 14:41:07 PST Received: from antares by tymix.Tymnet.COM (in.smtpd); 25 Jan 96 14:41:06 PST Received: from kirin.Tymnet.COM by antares.Tymnet.COM (8.6.5/UCB) id OAA05623; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 14:41:05 -0800 Received: by kirin.Tymnet.COM (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA10946; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 14:41:29 -0800 Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 14:41:29 -0800 From: mmoore@antares.Tymnet.COM (Michael J. Moore) Message-Id: <9601252241.AA10946@kirin.Tymnet.COM> To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: The beauty Shaytun X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: > Just how canonical is Brother Michael's belief that "Shaytun [is] > the most beautiful of Allah's creations."? By "canonical," I mean, Where > in The Holy Qur'aan, the Sacred Hadiith, and the Sacred Sunnah may we find > such a teaching? > =Mackie Blanton= I could be wrong, but here is my thinking. Islam accepts the revelations of the Jews and the Christians as long as they do not contradict the Quran. I believe that in the Bible mention is made of Shaytun's beauty. Another of his names is Lucifer which of course refers to his radiant light. But your question is a fair one and I will gladly stand corrected by those who know more than me. -Brother Michael- From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu Jan 25 21:41:06 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA29517; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 18:52:28 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id RAA24282; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 17:36:54 -0500 Received: from jazz.ucc.uno.edu by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id RAA24226; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 17:34:43 -0500 From: MJVBEG@jazz.ucc.uno.edu Received: from jazz.ucc.uno.edu by jazz.ucc.uno.edu (PMDF V5.0-4 #11893) id <01I0FK9GBFZ490VYXR@jazz.ucc.uno.edu> for tariqas@facteur.std.com; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 15:41:06 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 15:41:06 -0600 (CST) Subject: Re: [5] On dhikr (remembrance of God) To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Message-Id: <01I0FK9GDBHU90VYXR@jazz.ucc.uno.edu> X-Vms-To: IN%"tariqas@facteur.std.com" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ Fouad has noted: In any case, it is not the shayks which follow the path but the path which follows the shaykh. We tend to expect the shaykhs to follow the because we bring them down to our own level. @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ I have two problems with this observation. One is that the word "path" seems to be used for *path* and *The Path*. Secondly, Fouad's observation suggests that shaykhs are divine, or are almost divine. If we believe in the sense and implication of this observation, it seems to me that we need to wonder why Muhammud followed The Path that was/is The Holy Qur'aan, rather than the The Holy Qur'aan following Muhammud. Moreover, if we adhere to the sense and implication of Fouad's words, we have to wonder whether the Prophet's Companions (Al SabaHHah) actually Muhammud and not Al Kitab. If they followed Muhammud, and Muhammud happened to deviate from Al Kitab, how would they have been able to recognize a deviation? Mackie Blanton & Muhammud Mahdi Hasod (Al Rifa9ai Order, Aleppo) From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu Jan 25 22:49:17 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA28572; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 18:50:30 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id RAA24863; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 17:53:03 -0500 Received: from yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id RAA24799; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 17:49:34 -0500 Received: from localhost (darice@localhost) by yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (8.6.4/8.6.4) id JAA26315; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 09:49:19 +1100 Date: Fri, 26 Jan 1996 09:49:17 +1100 (EST) From: Fred Rice To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: Subki's invocation of tawassul (seeking means) In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Assalamu alaikum, On Thu, 25 Jan 1996, Moustafa Elqabbany wrote: (I have deleted his accusations...) This brother also posted his accusations in the soc.religion.islam newsgroup. In summary, he accuses some Naqshbandi brothers of providing false references, then by implication paints all on the Naqshbandi Sufi path with the brush of deception. First, this is the month of Ramadan. Is this the time for this? The month of brotherhood and sisterhood, the month when we should be extra-careful of guarding our tongues. Also, he claims that they provided false references. Is it possible the misunderstanding or mistake was his in understanding the references? The ego will always tell us "no, I could never make a mistake," but the true path is to fight the ego, not to listen to its sly whispers. Lastly, let's say things happened as he said. Is this now a reason to slander all Naqshbandis? If I meet two people who belong to a certain group, who do something I perceive (rightly or wrongly) as incorrect, is the correct action now to generalize to _every_ member of that group, then post something slandering everyone who belongs to this group? I ask the brother nicely, since he has posted here, I assume he can read this reply. Is this the correct behaviour, generalizing like this? May Allah forgive us our mistakes and help protect us from error, Wassalam, Farid ud-Dien Rice From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu Jan 25 22:38:56 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA01249; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 18:56:18 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id RAA24538; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 17:39:16 -0500 Received: from yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id RAA24520; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 17:39:10 -0500 Received: from localhost (darice@localhost) by yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (8.6.4/8.6.4) id JAA26048; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 09:38:57 +1100 Date: Fri, 26 Jan 1996 09:38:56 +1100 (EST) From: Fred Rice To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: [5] On dhikr (remembrance of God) In-Reply-To: <9601251837.AA09921@serii.sybase.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: On Thu, 25 Jan 1996, Mateen Siddiqui wrote: > > Dear Jawad, > > wa alaykum salaam, wa Ramadan Kareem, > > You are right in your assumption. In Damascus and Cyprus, or when done > among a group consisting of "old" Muslims (as opposed to "new" Muslims :-), > the dhikr is done in the traditional Naqshbandi silent manner, with the > count being done on fingers and stones. However, in order to increase > its tajalli and magnificence for those who neither know Arabic nor have > memorized the Qur'anic chapters and verses used in the dhikr, and in > order for new attendees and converts to learn them, Mawlana Shaykh Nazim > and Shaykh Hisham do the dhikr aloud. > > Perhaps Fouad will amplify on this. > Assalamu alaikum, and Ramadan mubarak I attend a different Naqshbandi dhikr, that of the tariqa whose shaykh is Shaykh Mahmud Es'ad Cosan, who is based in Istanbul. This tariqa also does the loud dhikr together - I haven't asked about it, though, but probably the reason is the same as that given by Br. Mateen Siddiqui above. Wassalam, Farid ud-Dien Rice From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri Jan 26 00:04:44 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA15780; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 20:22:52 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id TAA05889; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 19:17:54 -0500 Received: from halon.sybase.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id TAA05867; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 19:17:49 -0500 Received: from sybase.sybase.com (nntp1.sybase.com) by halon.sybase.com (5.x/SMI-SVR4/SybFW4.0) id AA19260; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 16:17:59 -0800 Received: from serii.sybase.com ([158.159.40.63]) by sybase.sybase.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/SybH3.4) id AA18628; Thu, 25 Jan 96 16:17:46 PST Received: by serii.sybase.com (5.x/SMI-4.1/SybEC3.2) id AA10068; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 16:04:44 -0800 Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 16:04:44 -0800 From: mateens@sybase.com (Mateen Siddiqui) Message-Id: <9601260004.AA10068@serii.sybase.com> To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: [5] On dhikr (remembrance of God) X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: wa alaykum salaam, al-Hafez Shaykh Muhammad al-Fa'rooqi an-Naqshbandi send his regards and prayers for a blessed Ramadan and wished to give here is a brief explanation in answer to your query. God, Glorious and Exalted said in the Holy Qur'an, "qul in kuntum tuHiboon-allah, fat-tabi`oonee yuHbibkumullah", "Say (O Muhammad)! If you desire to love God, then follow me, God will love you." [aali 'Imraan] He, Glorified and Exalted also said: "man yu`tee ar-Rasul faqad `ata-allah wa man tawalla famaa arsalnaaka `alayhim Hafeedha", "whoever obeys the Prophet, had in fact obeyed God, and as for those who turn away, we did not send you as guardian over them." [Surat an-Nisa] And He, most Glorified, said, "inna hadha siratee mustaqeeman, fat`tabioohu", "undoubtedly this is my Path, it is straight, so follow it." And He the all-Mighty said: "at`eeullaha wa at`ee ar-Rasula wa oolil amri minkum", "Obey God and obey the Messenger and those in authority among you." [Ali 'Imraan] _______________________________________________________________ Naqshbandi-Haqqani Foundation for Ahl as-Sunnah wal-Jama'at URL:http://www.best.com/~informe/haqqani/ [in 9 languages] Euro-Mirror site URL:http://www.zakat.org.uk/haqqani/haqqani.html > From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu Jan 25 15:10:05 1996 > Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 15:41:06 -0600 (CST) > Subject: Re: [5] On dhikr (remembrance of God) > To: tariqas@facteur.std.com > > @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ > Fouad has noted: > > In any case, it is not the shayks which follow the path but the path which > follows the shaykh. We tend to expect the shaykhs to follow the because we > bring them down to our own level. > @@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ > > I have two problems with this observation. One is that the word > "path" seems to be used for *path* and *The Path*. Secondly, Fouad's > observation suggests that shaykhs are divine, or are almost divine. > If we believe in the sense and implication of this observation, it > seems to me that we need to wonder why Muhammud followed The Path that was/is > The Holy Qur'aan, rather than the The Holy Qur'aan following Muhammud. > Moreover, if we adhere to the sense and implication of Fouad's words, > we have to wonder whether the Prophet's Companions (Al SabaHHah) actually > Muhammud and not Al Kitab. If they followed Muhammud, and Muhammud happened > to deviate from Al Kitab, how would they have been able to recognize a > deviation? > > Mackie Blanton & Muhammud Mahdi Hasod (Al Rifa9ai Order, Aleppo) From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri Jan 26 16:19:52 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA21261; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 20:34:09 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id TAA09194; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 19:43:00 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id TAA09184; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 19:42:58 -0500 From: onnbi@mol.net.my Received: from molhub.mol.net.my by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA19963; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 19:35:13 -0500 Received: from pc-245kl.mol.net.my by molhub.mol.net.my; Fri, 26 Jan 96 08:37:09 +0800 Priority: Normal To: Fouad Haddad To: tariqas@world.std.com Cc: lnoer.gnn.com@mol.net.my Subject: Re: Clinton on Ramadan Date: Fri, 26 Jan 96 08:19:52 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain Message-Id: <31082236207c002@molhub.mol.net.my> Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: On 96.01.24 00:13, Fouad Haddad wrote: > >To: msa-ec@world.std.com > >Date: Tue, 23 Jan 1996 23:29:44 > >Subject: Clinton on Ramadan > >From: Parveez Syed > >Sender: msa-ec-approval@world.std.com > >Precedence: bulk > >Reply-To: msa-ec@europe.std.com > > > >Tuesday 23 January 1996, London-UK > > > >From: Parveez Syed > >Global Media Monitoring > >Shanti Communications > >One Stuart Road, Thornton Heath, Surrey CR7 8RA1 UK > >Tel: London-UK 44-0831-196693 > >Fax: 44-0181-665 0384 > >E-Mail INTERNET: PARVEEZ@CR78RA1UK.WIN-UK.NET Assalaamualakum brother Fouad Frankly, we (my wife and I) chuckled when we read the signature note attached to Clinton's message. However, we felt that Clinton's message was thoughtful in a world characterised by fratricide. We felt honoured that as muslims, a president of the the world's powerful nation could actually send us message. Gore must have advised him to use the internet, which we thought was an excellent decision. And, we thought it was a nice gesture. We also felt that this was a sincere act. We have not met Clinton personally, but we believe like all good gestures, a good deed is a good deed. It is also like muslims saying assalamualaikum, a greetings of peace. Can't we reciprocate the gesture to Bill? I'm sure there's nothing wrong. Imagine, if we were to wish him Merry Christmas. Maybe, just 1 million of us. It would definitely leave am impression on him. I thought I write after seeing 3 responses to Parveez's mail. In all sincerity though, as muslims we must refrain from attaching something to something else which is not ours. We must also desist from writing something with hidden messages quite open to speculation. Creating fitnah is bad in Islam - it is certainly unethical. Aren't we afraid of God's retribution? He Knows our intentions. Let's welcome Bill's message with an open heart. What can it possibly do to us except engender good feelings. Onn B Ibrahim onnbi@mol.net.my Noraini Zakaria dewan@sittdec.org.my > > > >USA President Bill Clinton on Ramadan > > > >"Greetings to everyone observing the holy month of Ramadan. > > > > As the crescent moon signals the approach of this most sacred time in > >the Islamic year, Muslims the world over commemorate the revelation of > >the Koran to Muhammad. For Muslims, this marks a time of quiet > >reflection and religious devotion through fasting, self-examination, and > >intensive study of the teachings of Islam. Encouraging gratitude for > >our blessings and compassion for those in need, Ramadan cleanses the > >heart and lifts the soul. > > > >During this time of unprecedented movement toward peace in the Middle > >East, Muslims and people of all faiths have the opportunity to join > >together in creating a new world of harmony. Ramadan, with its promise > >of renewal, helps to nourish the spirit of brotherhood in us all. In > >this season of hope, let us resolve to work together for a better, > >brighter future -- a future in which children of every religion can live > >together in peace. > > > >Hillary and I offer best wishes to Muslims everywhere for a memorable > >observance. > > > >WILLIAM J. CLINTON > >19 January 1996" > > > >ends > > > > > >----------------------------------------------------------------- > >Parveez Syed's direct contact details are: > >One Stuart Road, Thornton Heath, Surrey CR7 8RA1 UK > >Tel: London-UK 44-0831-196693; > >Fax/tel: 44-0181-665 0384 > >E-Mail INTERNET: parveez@cr78ra1uk.win-uk.net > >----------------------------------------------------------------- > >Food for thought?: "In politics, as in the snake oil business, it > >pays to have a short memory and a chameleon-like quality. That is > >why the relationship between a journalist and a politician should > >be like the one between a dog and a lamp-post". > >But who is doing what to whom? One wonders ;-) > >----------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri Jan 26 01:54:06 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA15050; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 22:06:08 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id VAA19378; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 21:06:44 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id VAA19370; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 21:06:42 -0500 Received: from mail.nyc.pipeline.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA02615; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 20:54:30 -0500 Received: from pipe5.nyc.pipeline.com (sbryquer@pipe5.nyc.pipeline.com [198.80.32.45]) by mail.nyc.pipeline.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA18026 for ; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 20:54:10 -0500 (EST) From: Simon Bryquer Received: (sbryquer@localhost) by pipe5.nyc.pipeline.com (8.6.10/8.6.9) id UAA23411; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 20:54:06 -0500 Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 20:54:06 -0500 Message-Id: <199601260154.UAA23411@pipe5.nyc.pipeline.com> To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: Musical danger Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: On Thu, 25 Jan 1996 MJVBEG@jazz.ucc.uno.edu said: > Just how canonical is Brother Michael's belief that "Shaytun [is] the most >beautiful of Allah's creations."? By "canonical," I mean, Where in The Holy >Qur'aan, the Sacred Hadiith, and the Sacred Sunnah may we find such a >teaching? > > > >=Mackie Blanton= My very question. I believe this is the voice coming from a newly discovered orthodoxy. More or less the following in reverse: For those who believe there are no questions, for those who don't there are no answers. Simon Bryquer From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri Jan 26 02:50:38 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA24595; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 22:25:25 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id VAA22862; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 21:44:45 -0500 Received: from UNiX.asb.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id VAA22857; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 21:44:42 -0500 Received: from asb15 (sls5.asb.com [165.254.128.15]) by UNiX.asb.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA08395 for ; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 21:50:38 -0500 Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 21:50:38 -0500 Message-Id: <199601260250.VAA08395@UNiX.asb.com> X-Sender: fhaddad@unix.asb.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@facteur.std.com From: fhaddad@unix.asb.com (Fouad Haddad) Subject: Re: [5] On dhikr (remembrance of God) X-Mailer: Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: >@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ >Fouad has noted: > >In any case, it is not the shayks which follow the path but the path which >follows the shaykh. We tend to expect the shaykhs to follow the because we >bring them down to our own level. >@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@ > > I have two problems with this observation. One is that the word >"path" seems to be used for *path* and *The Path*. Secondly, Fouad's >observation suggests that shaykhs are divine, or are almost divine. That is extreme. Can't we continue to follow and trust the shaykh who taught us correct belief and correct behavior even after we gained some knowledge, without someone calling us idolaters? > If we believe in the sense and implication of this observation, it >seems to me that we need to wonder why Muhammud followed The Path that was/is >The Holy Qur'aan, rather than the The Holy Qur'aan following Muhammud. Why this dichotomy between the Prophet (s) and the Qur'an? `A'isha said: "His nature *was* the Qur'an." > Moreover, if we adhere to the sense and implication of Fouad's words, >we have to wonder whether the Prophet's Companions (Al SabaHHah) actually >Muhammud and not Al Kitab. If they followed Muhammud, and Muhammud happened >to deviate from Al Kitab, how would they have been able to recognize a >deviation? They most certainly followed Muhammad (s), and they followed the Qur'an, and there is not one jot of difference between the two. The Prophet (s) does not "happen to deviate from the Book." He and all Prophets are ma`sum (immune) from such deviation. That is the belief of Shaykh Ahmad Rifa`i, the belief of all the great saints, and the belief of my shaykh. > > >Mackie Blanton & Muhammud Mahdi Hasod (Al Rifa9ai Order, Aleppo) > > "Greetings to you, O live one, from the world of ghosts begging" (Rifa`i's address to the Prophet (s) upon visiting his grave in Madina). Sincerely, Fouad From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri Jan 26 03:11:13 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA14318; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 23:07:56 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id WAA26410; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 22:13:29 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id WAA26404; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 22:13:26 -0500 Received: from UNiX.asb.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA14760; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 22:05:26 -0500 Received: from asb15 (sls5.asb.com [165.254.128.15]) by UNiX.asb.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA08892; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 22:11:13 -0500 Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 22:11:13 -0500 Message-Id: <199601260311.WAA08892@UNiX.asb.com> X-Sender: fhaddad@unix.asb.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: msa-ec@world.std.com, tariqas@world.std.com From: fhaddad@unix.asb.com (Fouad Haddad) Subject: [6] On dhikr (Remembrance of God) Cc: soc-religion-islam@telerama.lm.com X-Mailer: Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: [6] ON DHIKR (from NUZHAT AL-MAJALIS) Six Benefits of Dhikr (continued) 1. The Ranks of Dhikr (continued) Ibn `Ata' Allah* said: "The one who utters the Word of Oneness (kalimat al-tawhid = La ilaha illallah = no god but the One God) needs three lights: the light of guidance (Nur al-hidaya), the light of sufficiency (nur al-kifaya), and the light of divine help (nur al-`inaya). Whoever God graces with the first light, he is immune (ma`sum) from associating a partner to God; whoever God graces with the second light, he is immune from committing great sins and indecencies; and whoever God graces with the third light, he is protected (mahfuz) from the corrupt thoughts and motions that typify those given to heedless actions. The first light belongs to "the ones who wrong themselves," the second to "those that are lukewarm," and the third to "the ones who outstrip others through good deeds." [* Abu al-Fadl Ibn `Ata' Allah (d. 709/1309) of Alexandria, Egypt: One of the great sufi imams and a Maliki jurist, author of "al-Hikam" (Aphorisms), "Miftah al-falah" (The Key to Success), "al-qasd al-mujarrad fi ma`rifat al-ism al-mufrad" (The Pure Goal Concerning Knowledge of the Unique Name), "Taj al-`arus al-hawi li tadhhib al-nufus" (The Bride's Crown Containing the Discipline of Souls), "`Unwan al-tawfiq fi adab al-tariq" (The Sign of Success Concerning the Discipline of the Path), the biographical "al-lata'if fi manaqib Abi al-`Abbas al- Mursi wa shaykhihi Abi al-Hassan (The Subtle Blessings in the Saintly Lives of Abu al-`Abbas al-Mursi and His Master Abu al- Hasan), and others, five of which were transmitted with their chains by the hadith master and historian al-Sakhawi (d. 902/1497) to the Shadhili commentator Ahmad Zarruq (d. 899/1493). Ibn `Ata Allah was the student of Abu al-`Abbas al- Mursi (d. 686/1288), the second successor of Imam Abu al-Hasan al-Shadhili, and the shaykh of the Shafi`i imam Taqi al-Din al- Subki. He related from al-Shadhili the following saying: "This path is not monasticism, eating barley and bran, or the garrulousness of affectation, but rather perseverance in the divine commands and certainty in the divine guidance." Some sources: al-Zirikly, al-a`lam 1:221; `Asqalani, al-durar al- kamina 1:273; Subki, Tabaqat al-shafi`iyya 9:23 (Nuh Keller, Victor Danner).] Al-Wasiti** was asked about the remembrance of God, may God have mercy on him. He said: "It is the exiting from the battlefield of heedlessness into the outer space of direct vision (mushahada) on the mount of victory over fear and intensity of love." [**Muhammad ibn Musa al-Wasiti (d. c320/932): A Sufi who associated with al-Junayd and al-Nuri in Baghdad and who later moved to Merv where he died. He was also an authority on fiqh. Sources: Qushayri, "Risala" 1:174; Sulami, "Tabaqat" 302-307 (Abd al-Hakim Murad).] One of the special attributes of the remembrance of God is that it has been placed in direct correspondence with God's own remembrance of us. God the Exalted said: "Remember Me, and I shall remember you" (2:152). Moses said - peace be upon him: "O my Lord, where do you dwell?" He replied: "In the heart of my believing servant." The meaning of this is the heart's rest brought about by His remembrance. Something like this will be mentioned in the last chapter on love (mahabba) insha Allah. [Note: Ibn Majah narrates from Abu `Anbasa, and Tabarani from Abu `Utba that the Prophet (s) said: "God has vessels from among the people of the earth (lillahi aniyatun min ahli al-ard), and the vessels of your Lord are the hearts of His righteous servants, and the most beloved of those to Him are the softest and the most sensitive." al-Jarrahi said in "Kashf al-khafa" that this was the basis of the saying attributed to the Prophet (s): "The heart of the believer is the house of God." al-Qari said that the latter, though not a saying of the Prophet (s), was correct in meaning. Imam Ahmad narrates in his "Kitab al- zuhd" from Wahb ibn Munabbih: "God opened the heavens to Ezekiel until he beheld the very Throne, whereupon he said: "Glory to Thee, what greatness is Thine, O my Lord!" God said: "Verily the heavens and the earth are unable to encompass Me, and the devoted, soft heart of My faithful servant is able to encompass Me."" Imam Ghazali mentioned it in his "Ihya' `Ulum al-din."] Muhammad ibn al-Hanafiyya*** said - may Allah be well pleased with him: "Verily the angels lower their gaze in the presence of the rememberer of God, just as the people lower their gaze before lightning." [***Abu al-Qasim Muhammad ibn `Ali ibn Abi Talib (c15 H- 73), named ibn al-Hanafiyya: A saintly son of sayyidina `Ali. He took hadith from him and from several other Companions including Jabir ibn `Abd Allah, the last of the Companions who died in Madina. Sources: Ibn `Adi, al-Kamil 2:113b; Ibn Hajar, "Tahdhib al-tahdhib" 9:354 (Azami). The Prophet (s) gave sayyidina `Ali special permission to name him both Abu al-Qasim and Muhammad, which he otherwise forbade: Tirmidhi (#2846) and Abu Dawud (Adab #4967). ] Blessings and Peace on the Prophet, his Family, and Companions. Fouad Haddad Naqshbandi-Haqqani Foundation of Ahl al-sunna wal-jama`a From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu Jan 25 23:31:06 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA22089; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 23:25:38 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id WAA00729; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 22:49:46 -0500 Received: from orange.printronix.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id WAA00724; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 22:49:42 -0500 Message-Id: <199601260349.WAA00724@europe.std.com> Received: from VMS MAIL by orange.printronix.com (NRC MAIL Version 1.3); 25-JAN-1996 19:34:31 Date: Thu, 25 JAN 96 19:33:13 From: "M.I.S. DEPT" To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: [5] On dhikr (remembrance of God) X-Vms-To: ORANGE::IPMAIL%"tariqas@facteur.std.com" X-Vms-Cc: NOORDIN Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: The only logical reason to say the dhikr aloud is to keep oneself awake and not be easily fallen asleep during the dhikr. Wassalam Noordin From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu Jan 25 23:36:54 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA25481; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 23:32:52 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id WAA00795; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 22:50:51 -0500 Received: from orange.printronix.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id WAA00786; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 22:50:47 -0500 Message-Id: <199601260350.WAA00786@europe.std.com> Received: from VMS MAIL by orange.printronix.com (NRC MAIL Version 1.3); 25-JAN-1996 19:38:37 Date: Thu, 25 JAN 96 19:37:29 From: "M.I.S. DEPT" To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: Clinton on Ramadan X-Vms-To: ORANGE::IPMAIL%"tariqas@facteur.std.com" X-Vms-Cc: NOORDIN Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Assalamualaikum .... good to hear posting from Malaysians for first time. Regards, Noordin From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri Jan 26 05:40:16 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA17526; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 01:16:22 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id AAA14171; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 00:46:35 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id AAA14166; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 00:46:32 -0500 Received: from PO7.ANDREW.CMU.EDU by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA01998; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 00:40:23 -0500 Received: (from postman@localhost) by po7.andrew.cmu.edu (8.7.1/8.7.1) id AAA22033 for tariqas@world.std.com; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 00:40:22 -0500 Received: via switchmail; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 00:40:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from unix21.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail ID ; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 00:40:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from unix21.andrew.cmu.edu via qmail ID ; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 00:40:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from mms.4.60.Jan.26.1995.18.43.47.sun4c.411.EzMail.2.0.CUILIB.3.45.SNAP.NOT.LINKED.unix21.andrew.cmu.edu.sun4c.411 via MS.5.6.unix21.andrew.cmu.edu.sun4c_411; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 00:40:16 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <0l26Z0K00YUx170f45@andrew.cmu.edu> Date: Fri, 26 Jan 1996 00:40:16 -0500 (EST) From: Muhammad Razi Abdul To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: looking for books Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: salaam, jazakallahukhairan for the articles on dhikr. i appreciate it a lot. can anyone recommend me good books on tasawwuf for a beginner like myself? all suggestions are most appreciated. wassalaam, and ramadan mubarak. razi From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu Jan 25 20:34:32 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA20604; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 01:28:32 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id AAA14341; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 00:47:46 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id AAA14332; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 00:47:43 -0500 From: MJVBEG@jazz.ucc.uno.edu Received: from relay2.UU.NET by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA03787; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 00:45:02 -0500 Received: from jazz.ucc.uno.edu by relay2.UU.NET with ESMTP id QQaacc00392; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 16:44:16 -0500 (EST) Received: from jazz.ucc.uno.edu by jazz.ucc.uno.edu (PMDF V5.0-4 #11893) id <01I0FINL13VK90VYXR@jazz.ucc.uno.edu>; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 14:34:33 -0600 (CST) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 14:34:32 -0600 (CST) Subject: RENGA: *Light* To: TARIQAS@world.std.com Cc: WINGED-HEART@SEAS.UPENN.EDU Message-Id: <01I0FINL2PQQ90VYXR@jazz.ucc.uno.edu> X-Vms-To: TARIQAS X-Vms-Cc: HEART Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Sky cried her tear drops washing all our sins away Amir 'pit pats' sound of bliss Spider sky with clouds Silver bands of sun's last light Hadi Chill winds shake my soul Louisiana Agadir, Ild de Gerba Mackie Belighted Divans The cresent holds an infinite amount of space Jabriel see the star Headlights through thin slits Streetlamps through the blind in pools Saki Zenzaki Shimmering: pools light Hot cocoa, hot cup Opening letter from you. Jalaludin Roberts Hot skin, fireplace heat. Salmon, silver red light rising from and ocean Junnaiyd Moore warm sunset and friends Windows innocent of glass Let the cold inside Chime "The sun is a moon in my heart." It's so very cold in Southern California Tansen-Muni Cold hands but warm heart Love's night time journey embracing the darkness chill Ruthie Roberts heralding in its beauty and warmth Illumination is the goal of everyone what a glow we'll make Tansen-Muni Inter-light spills forth from within enlightening the world from without Ruthie Roberts Transect horizons journey of sunrise, sunset Starry Milky Way desert donkey where there is darkness winter has surrendered so the spring can rise Jabriel The inner light shines From the eyes, the windows of The soul. Keep shining! mikail davenport I dreamt my deathbed spilled my body onto floor; "I" burst into light. Noor in MN. Night fog, morning dew Seeing all things as they are A lifting of veils Jelaludin Roberts Imagine we are snowflakes evaporating in the light of the One Candace winter light shines clear from more than one direction we are all backlit Junnaiyd Moore You can be the candle which brings the light or the mirror which reflects it. Michael Gest Warm Asha ravished by the lights of tariqas: Mackie Salaat's last gleaming. Eyes closed--each cell coruscates; Eyes open-forms held by intrinsic light. Abraham Sarmad What a dance! From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri Jan 26 08:36:00 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA06181; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 04:15:01 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id DAA06844; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 03:36:51 -0500 Received: from island.amtsgi.bc.ca by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id DAA06818; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 03:36:44 -0500 Received: from Savary.islandnet.com by island.amtsgi.bc.ca with smtp (Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0tfjeB-0005UsC; Fri, 26 Jan 96 00:36 PST Message-Id: Date: Fri, 26 Jan 96 00:36 PST X-Sender: dynamics@islandnet.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@facteur.std.com From: dynamics@islandnet.com (Jabreil Hanafi) Subject: Re: RENGA: *Light* Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: > > > > Sky cried her tear drops > washing all our sins away Amir > 'pit pats' sound of bliss > > > Spider sky with clouds > Silver bands of sun's last light Hadi > Chill winds shake my soul > > > Louisiana > Agadir, Ild de Gerba Mackie > Belighted Divans > > > The cresent holds > an infinite amount of space Jabriel > see the star > > > Headlights through thin slits > Streetlamps through the blind in pools Saki Zenzaki > Shimmering: pools light > > > Hot cocoa, hot cup > Opening letter from you. Jalaludin Roberts > Hot skin, fireplace heat. > > > Salmon, silver red > light rising from and ocean Junnaiyd Moore > warm sunset and friends > > > Windows innocent of glass > Let the cold inside Chime > "The sun is a moon in my heart." > > > It's so very cold > in Southern California Tansen-Muni > Cold hands but warm heart > > > Love's night time journey > embracing the darkness chill Ruthie Roberts > heralding in its beauty and warmth > > > > Illumination > is the goal of everyone > what a glow we'll make Tansen-Muni > > > Inter-light > spills forth from within > enlightening the world from without Ruthie Roberts > > > Transect horizons > journey of sunrise, sunset > Starry Milky Way desert donkey > > > where there is darkness > winter has surrendered > so the spring can rise Jabriel > > > The inner light shines > From the eyes, the windows of > The soul. Keep shining! mikail davenport > > > I dreamt my deathbed > spilled my body onto floor; > "I" burst into light. Noor in MN. > > > Night fog, morning dew > Seeing all things as they are > A lifting of veils Jelaludin Roberts > > > Imagine we are > snowflakes evaporating > in the light of the One Candace > > > winter light shines clear > from more than one direction > we are all backlit Junnaiyd Moore > > > You can be the candle > which brings the light > or the mirror which reflects it. Michael Gest > > > Warm Asha ravished > by the lights of tariqas: Mackie > Salaat's last gleaming. > > Eyes closed--each cell coruscates; > Eyes open-forms held by intrinsic light. Abraham Sarmad > What a dance! > > > > > The dawn slipped away in between frozen thoughts: still and opened an unimagined day Jabriel > > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------- Jabriel Hanafi Dynamics Unlimited Suite 806 327 Maitland Victoria B.C. V9A 7G7 Voice (604) 384 6629 Fax (604) 380 9909 From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri Jan 26 08:16:42 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA11496; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 04:41:12 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id EAA13496; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 04:13:10 -0500 Received: from wolfe.net by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id EAA13491; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 04:13:07 -0500 Received: from [204.157.98.72] (sea-ts1-p18.wolfenet.com [204.157.98.72]) by wolfe.net (8.7.3/8.7) with SMTP id BAA18291 for ; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 01:13:07 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: gws@gonzo.wolfe.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 26 Jan 1996 01:16:42 -0700 To: tariqas@facteur.std.com From: gws@wolfe.net (George Steffen) Subject: RE: Salat with shoes on? Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: >At 01:02 PM 1/25/96 -0800, you wrote: >>I have always removed my shoes and left them either outside the door to >>the masjid or just inside on a rack. Does anyone out there know what one >>should do if they are required to wear shoes at all times because of a >>disabling foot disorder when it is time for salat? I have been told to >>even wear my shoes indoors...and it is very hard to get used to! >> >>Jamilla >> > > > What I'm wondering is, what if the person had very smelly feet? >Since it is extremely frowned upon to bring bad odors into a Masjid, what >would such a person do? Perhaps there are no Muslims with very smelly feet, >since those who are praying should be washing their feet 5 times daily. > As far as other reasons that would indicate a necessity to keep >one's shoes on, Islam makes things simple, and the simple answer here would >be that you must make sure that they are as clean as possible, especially >free of any visible matter. Would it be intruding of me to ask why you've >been told to keep your shoes on indoors? > > >Abdassalam Granger Assalam Aleikum Forgive me, but my understanding is that one never brings shoes into the mesjid. Ablution is for cleansing both physically and spiritually. So, remove your shoes at the door, make your ablution. If there is a medical problem with your feet, invest in a pair of indoor slippers or mests (khuffs). They are used indoors in respect to your brothers and sisters or simply because your feet get cold (mine do). But, the citations aside, I have never entered a mesjid in the US, Germany, Jordan, Saudia Arabia or Turkey where they kept their out-of-doors shoes on. Peace and Blessings, Habib N. From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu Jan 25 21:44:20 1996 Received: from relay1.UU.NET by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA02904; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 06:56:51 -0500 Received: from europe.std.com by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP id QQaaci07954; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 18:09:50 -0500 (EST) Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id RAA23503; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 17:08:17 -0500 Received: from sowebo.charm.net by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id QAA22986; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 16:44:46 -0500 Received: from charm.net by sowebo.charm.net; Thu, 25 Jan 96 16:44 EST Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 16:44:20 -0500 (EST) From: Tony To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: Salat with shoes on? In-Reply-To: <9601252008.AA10487@kirin.Tymnet.COM> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: > > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > Is there even one Muslim who follows this? Is there some reason > why not? I found this to be very strange. > > -Michael- > Hadith is strange to begin with. Even to the scholar, it is an enormous body of literature to get a grip on, and contradictions about. Gob bless the person that can understand the Hadith as a coherent whole. From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri Jan 26 11:57:59 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA10604; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 07:31:52 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id GAA25247; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 06:58:13 -0500 Received: from desiree.teleport.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id GAA25238; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 06:58:08 -0500 Received: from julie.teleport.com (bergner@julie.teleport.com [192.108.254.19]) by desiree.teleport.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id DAA28864 for ; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 03:58:03 -0800 From: Paul Bergner Received: (bergner@localhost) by julie.teleport.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id DAA27748 for tariqas@facteur.std.com; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 03:57:59 -0800 Message-Id: <199601261157.DAA27748@julie.teleport.com> Subject: Re: RENGA: *Light* To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Date: Fri, 26 Jan 1996 03:57:59 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: from "Jabreil Hanafi" at Jan 26, 96 00:36:00 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 3180 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: > > > > > > > > > Sky cried her tear drops > > washing all our sins away Amir > > 'pit pats' sound of bliss > > > > > > Spider sky with clouds > > Silver bands of sun's last light Hadi > > Chill winds shake my soul > > > > > > Louisiana > > Agadir, Ild de Gerba Mackie > > Belighted Divans > > > > > > The cresent holds > > an infinite amount of space Jabriel > > see the star > > > > > > Headlights through thin slits > > Streetlamps through the blind in pools Saki Zenzaki > > Shimmering: pools light > > > > > > Hot cocoa, hot cup > > Opening letter from you. Jalaludin Roberts > > Hot skin, fireplace heat. > > > > > > Salmon, silver red > > light rising from and ocean Junnaiyd Moore > > warm sunset and friends > > > > > > Windows innocent of glass > > Let the cold inside Chime > > "The sun is a moon in my heart." > > > > > > It's so very cold > > in Southern California Tansen-Muni > > Cold hands but warm heart > > > > > > Love's night time journey > > embracing the darkness chill Ruthie Roberts > > heralding in its beauty and warmth > > > > > > > > Illumination > > is the goal of everyone > > what a glow we'll make Tansen-Muni > > > > > > Inter-light > > spills forth from within > > enlightening the world from without Ruthie Roberts > > > > > > Transect horizons > > journey of sunrise, sunset > > Starry Milky Way desert donkey > > > > > > where there is darkness > > winter has surrendered > > so the spring can rise Jabriel > > > > > > The inner light shines > > From the eyes, the windows of > > The soul. Keep shining! mikail davenport > > > > > > I dreamt my deathbed > > spilled my body onto floor; > > "I" burst into light. Noor in MN. > > > > > > Night fog, morning dew > > Seeing all things as they are > > A lifting of veils Jelaludin Roberts > > > > > > Imagine we are > > snowflakes evaporating > > in the light of the One Candace > > > > > > winter light shines clear > > from more than one direction > > we are all backlit Junnaiyd Moore > > > > > > You can be the candle > > which brings the light > > or the mirror which reflects it. Michael Gest > > > > > > Warm Asha ravished > > by the lights of tariqas: Mackie > > Salaat's last gleaming. > > > > Eyes closed--each cell coruscates; > > Eyes open-forms held by intrinsic light. Abraham Sarmad > > What a dance! > > > > > > > > > > The dawn slipped away > in between frozen thoughts: still > and opened an unimagined day Jabriel > > > > nature awakened birdsong everywhere and the warm silence of light Abdul Mustafa From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri Jan 26 13:53:33 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA14137; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 09:29:28 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id IAA03916; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 08:52:33 -0500 Received: from cap1.CapAccess.org by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id IAA03907; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 08:52:29 -0500 Received: (from bmccoy@localhost) by cap1.CapAccess.org (8.6.12/8.6.10) id IAA10114; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 08:53:35 -0500 Date: Fri, 26 Jan 1996 08:53:33 -0500 (EST) From: "Brett W. McCoy" To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: The beauty Shaytun In-Reply-To: <9601252241.AA10946@kirin.Tymnet.COM> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: On Thu, 25 Jan 1996, Michael J. Moore wrote: > > Just how canonical is Brother Michael's belief that "Shaytun [is] > > the most beautiful of Allah's creations."? By "canonical," I mean, Where > > in The Holy Qur'aan, the Sacred Hadiith, and the Sacred Sunnah may we find > > such a teaching? > > Islam accepts the revelations of the Jews and the Christians as long as they > do not contradict the Quran. I believe that in the Bible mention is made > of Shaytun's beauty. Another of his names is Lucifer which of course > refers to his radiant light. But your question is a fair one and I will > gladly stand corrected by those who know more than me. The original name, as it is in early Hebrew myth (rather than just canonical text) was Helal ben Shahar -- Shahar was the name of the planet Venus, personified into an entity known as Shahar (it's not clear to me whether Shahar was an angel or a deity in pre-Monotheistic beliefs still extant in the myths of the early Hebrews recently fled from Babylon), the Morning Star. Another interesting story I came across, which I think is found in some Gnostic texts and is also part of the traditions of the Holy Grail, is that Helal ben Shahar did not fall from heaven, but was sent down as a messenger, and to confront this evil entity who lived at the center of the world (the Abyss?). He was armed with a sword made from pure emerald (some traditions hold that his crown was similarly made, or studded with jewels of emerald). Helal vanquished this being, who fled from the Abyss, but leaving Helal trapped there. This sword (or crown) somehow manifested in other forms throughout history, such as the Holy Grail. Brett W. McCoy | There is only one difference bmccoy@capaccess.org | between myself and a madman, Disciple of the Eastern Mysteries of | and that is I am not mad both Love and War | -- Salvador Dali From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri Jan 26 14:17:38 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA21004; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 09:43:10 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id JAA06844; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 09:16:21 -0500 Received: from fastmail.worldweb.net by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id JAA06831; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 09:16:17 -0500 Received: from dns.worldweb.net (dns.worldweb.net [204.117.218.2]) by fastmail.worldweb.net (8.7.2/8.7.2) with SMTP id JAA05119 for ; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 09:17:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from JIM ([204.117.218.186]) by dns.worldweb.net with SMTP; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 10:32:34 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960126141738.002ecb1c@worldweb.net> X-Sender: jmccaig@worldweb.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 26 Jan 1996 09:17:38 -0500 To: tariqas@facteur.std.com, tariqas@world.std.com From: James McCaig Subject: Re: looking for books Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: At 12:40 AM 1/26/96 -0500, Muhammad Razi Abdul wrote: Dear Razi, SUFI TEACHINGS: LECTURES FROM LAKE O'HARA by Pir-o-Murhsid Hidayat Inayat Khan is an excellent introduction to Sufi thought and practices. It is available in many bookstores and can be purchased online at Sufi Center Bookstore. Good hunting! >salaam, > >jazakallahukhairan for the articles on dhikr. i appreciate it a lot. > >can anyone recommend me good books on tasawwuf for a beginner like myself? >all suggestions are most appreciated. > >wassalaam, and ramadan mubarak. > >razi > Maharaj James McCaig | Sufi Center of Washington Brotherhood/Sisterhood Representative | Keepers of Sufi Center Bookstore United States | http://guess.worldweb.net/sufi jmccaig@worldweb.net From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri Jan 26 14:17:38 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA20368; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 09:55:56 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id JAA07852; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 09:22:43 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id JAA07843; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 09:22:40 -0500 Received: from fastmail.worldweb.net (mosconi.worldweb.net) by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA06824; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 09:16:16 -0500 Received: from dns.worldweb.net (dns.worldweb.net [204.117.218.2]) by fastmail.worldweb.net (8.7.2/8.7.2) with SMTP id JAA05123 for ; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 09:17:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from JIM ([204.117.218.186]) by dns.worldweb.net with SMTP; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 10:32:34 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <2.2.32.19960126141738.002ecb1c@worldweb.net> X-Sender: jmccaig@worldweb.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 26 Jan 1996 09:17:38 -0500 To: tariqas@facteur.std.com, tariqas@world.std.com From: James McCaig Subject: Re: looking for books Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: At 12:40 AM 1/26/96 -0500, Muhammad Razi Abdul wrote: Dear Razi, SUFI TEACHINGS: LECTURES FROM LAKE O'HARA by Pir-o-Murhsid Hidayat Inayat Khan is an excellent introduction to Sufi thought and practices. It is available in many bookstores and can be purchased online at Sufi Center Bookstore. Good hunting! >salaam, > >jazakallahukhairan for the articles on dhikr. i appreciate it a lot. > >can anyone recommend me good books on tasawwuf for a beginner like myself? >all suggestions are most appreciated. > >wassalaam, and ramadan mubarak. > >razi > Maharaj James McCaig | Sufi Center of Washington Brotherhood/Sisterhood Representative | Keepers of Sufi Center Bookstore United States | http://guess.worldweb.net/sufi jmccaig@worldweb.net From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Thu Jan 25 21:02:36 1996 Received: from relay7.UU.NET by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA06137; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 13:04:41 -0500 Received: from europe.std.com by relay7.UU.NET with SMTP id QQaacd07042; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 16:53:18 -0500 (EST) Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id QAA18578; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 16:02:54 -0500 Received: from pop.sdsu.edu by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id QAA18548; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 16:02:48 -0500 Received: (from hall@localhost) by pop.sdsu.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA03516; Thu, 25 Jan 1996 13:02:37 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 25 Jan 1996 13:02:36 -0800 (PST) From: Linda elaine Hall X-Sender: hall@pop To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: Salat with shoes on? In-Reply-To: <9601252008.AA10487@kirin.Tymnet.COM> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: I have always removed my shoes and left them either outside the door to the masjid or just inside on a rack. Does anyone out there know what one should do if they are required to wear shoes at all times because of a disabling foot disorder when it is time for salat? I have been told to even wear my shoes indoors...and it is very hard to get used to! Jamilla From sbryquer@pipeline.com Fri Jan 26 18:44:09 1996 Received: from mail.nyc.pipeline.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA00792; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 13:44:20 -0500 Received: from pipe3.nyc.pipeline.com (sbryquer@pipe3.nyc.pipeline.com [198.80.32.43]) by mail.nyc.pipeline.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA11247; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 13:44:11 -0500 (EST) From: Simon Bryquer Received: (sbryquer@localhost) by pipe3.nyc.pipeline.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) id NAA26188; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 13:44:09 -0500 Date: Fri, 26 Jan 1996 13:44:09 -0500 Message-Id: <199601261844.NAA26188@pipe3.nyc.pipeline.com> To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: MIDDLEEAST Cc: habib@world.std.com Status: RO X-Status: This is TARIQAS. Is it not? My feeling is that these posts belong in an other forum. MIDDLE-EAST Policy and Politic. -- Simon Bryquer From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri Jan 26 18:27:45 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA28713; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 14:28:21 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id NAA02827; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 13:29:07 -0500 Received: from nova.unix.portal.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id NAA02818; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 13:29:04 -0500 Received: from jobe.shell.portal.com (jobe.shell.portal.com [156.151.3.4]) by nova.unix.portal.com (8.6.11/8.6.5) with ESMTP id KAA17011 for ; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 10:27:47 -0800 Received: (tyagi@localhost) by jobe.shell.portal.com (8.6.11/8.6.5) id KAA01071 for tariqas@facteur.std.com; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 10:27:46 -0800 Message-Id: <199601261827.KAA01071@jobe.shell.portal.com> Subject: Re: Salat with shoes on? To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Date: Fri, 26 Jan 1996 10:27:45 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: from "Linda elaine Hall" at Jan 25, 96 01:02:36 pm From: tyagi@houseofkaos.abyss.com (Haramullah) Orientation: House of Kaos, St. Joseph, Kali Fornika, US -- Kali Yuga X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 461 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: 49960126 Assalam alaykum, my kin. |...Does anyone out there know what one should do if they are required |to wear shoes at all times because of a disabling foot disorder when |it is time for salat? I have been told to even wear my shoes indoors.... Wear your shoes into the mosque or do salat at home. Allah will forgive your outlandishness on account of what challenges SHe has given you. Peace be upon you, kin. Haramullah tyagi@houseofkaos.abys.com From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri Jan 26 23:29:04 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA06006; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 19:01:44 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id SAA05862; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 18:29:41 -0500 Received: from acad1.cc.uleth.ca by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id SAA05833; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 18:29:14 -0500 From: pavlna@hg.uleth.ca Received: by hg.uleth.ca (MX V4.2 VAX) id 631; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 16:29:05 MST Date: Fri, 26 Jan 1996 16:29:04 MST To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Message-Id: <0099CF93.DEE08A22.631@hg.uleth.ca> Subject: Re: Musical danger Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: A point well made. Does it not say that Allah is Beautiful and He loves beauty? Sister Natalie From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Fri Jan 26 23:34:30 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA10366; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 19:09:27 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id SAA06292; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 18:34:36 -0500 Received: from acad1.cc.uleth.ca by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id SAA06270; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 18:34:23 -0500 From: pavlna@hg.uleth.ca Received: by hg.uleth.ca (MX V4.2 VAX) id 30; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 16:34:31 MST Date: Fri, 26 Jan 1996 16:34:30 MST To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Message-Id: <0099CF94.A13958E2.30@hg.uleth.ca> Subject: Re: Clinton on Ramadan Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Salaam Alaikum: I am as cynical as anyone about anything a politician (especially an American politician) says, but I am inclined to agree with your thoughts on accepting this message from Clinton as a positive act. It is just nice to get positive words about us from the non-Muslim world (not that my identity is dependant upon their recognition of my religion). Sister Natalie From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sat Jan 27 00:25:05 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA02087; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 19:59:10 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id TAA13435; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 19:31:48 -0500 Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id TAA13417; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 19:31:45 -0500 Received: from mail.nyc.pipeline.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA16783; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 19:25:17 -0500 Received: from pipe2.nyc.pipeline.com (sbryquer@pipe2.nyc.pipeline.com [198.80.32.42]) by mail.nyc.pipeline.com (8.7.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA03936 for ; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 19:25:06 -0500 (EST) From: Simon Bryquer Received: (sbryquer@localhost) by pipe2.nyc.pipeline.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) id TAA11307; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 19:25:05 -0500 Date: Fri, 26 Jan 1996 19:25:05 -0500 Message-Id: <199601270025.TAA11307@pipe2.nyc.pipeline.com> To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: Subki's invocation of tawassul (seeking means) Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: On Fri, 26 Jan 1996 Moustafa Elqabbany said: >The scholar I learn from, Nazih Hammad, does not have very high regard for the >Naqshbandis. It's not a question of madhab. > >Salaam, >Moustafa > Moustafa, Thank you for making sure we don't deviate from the pristine path you walk on -- but please give us the benefit of the doubt. We are all grownups -- and for those who aren't, maybe it's their destiny -- here and can make up our own minds. If you have something to say to the Naqshbandiya -- do that, say it to them. With all due respect, I don't need your protection. Simon Bryquer From tariqas-approval@facteur.std.com Sat Jan 27 00:59:50 1996 Received: from europe.std.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA14145; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 20:26:04 -0500 Received: by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id TAA16738; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 19:59:39 -0500 Received: from tymix.Tymnet.COM by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) id TAA16732; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 19:59:34 -0500 Received: by tymix.Tymnet.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA29428; Fri, 26 Jan 96 16:59:25 PST Received: from antares by tymix.Tymnet.COM (in.smtpd); 26 Jan 96 16:59:25 PST Received: from kirin.Tymnet.COM by antares.Tymnet.COM (8.6.5/UCB) id QAA20166; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 16:59:24 -0800 Received: by kirin.Tymnet.COM (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA11474; Fri, 26 Jan 1996 16:59:50 -0800 Date: Fri, 26 Jan 1996 16:59:50 -0800 From: mmoore@antares.Tymnet.COM (Michael J. Moore) Message-Id: <9601270059.AA11474@kirin.Tymnet.COM> To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Subject: Re: Musical danger X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@facteur.std.com Status: RO X-Status: > A point well made. Does it not say that Allah is Beautiful and He loves > beauty? > Sister Natalie Hello Sister Natalie, I will be very bold here and assume that you were addressing this to me. I don't know if it was a point well made, but perhaps it should be seriously considered. Even if my analogy of Shaytun as beautiful was wrong (and nobody has shown me that it was yet), we should not get hung up on a poor analogy and miss the point. There was a time when I would have guffawed at any simpleton who might suggest that music might stunt ones growth. But now I believe that music is like fools gold. It has a beauty of its own, but what person would think that fools gold is a path to real gold! Real gold may be in an entirely different direction. Yes, Allah is Beautiful and He loves beauty, but this is beauty of a different quality, of a higher vibration, jalil. The things that man makes are pitiful and gross in comparison. So, sometimes I think we should reject with disgust these man made beauties and kneel with palms up waiting for the real thing. If Allah sees that our hands are empty, he may give us just one drop of his beauty. -Brother Michael-