From tariqas-approval Mon Aug 31 03:59:00 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA11052; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 07:59:39 -0400 Received: from bio.wpafb.af.mil by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA11002; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 07:59:37 -0400 X-Nvlenv-01Date-Posted: 31-Aug-1995 7:59:16 -0400; at SGP.Bldg_40 Priority: Urgent X-Nvl-Content-Type: MULTIPART; 1-S; $----Novell--Attachment----$ Date: 31 Aug 95 07:59:00 EDT From: MIRZAMAN@bio.wpafb.af.mil To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Namatollahi order Message-Id: <8643453001292A76@-SMF-> References: <8743453002292A76@-SMF-> Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Form: Memo Text: (12 lines follow) salam alakom, to all friends. I like to know if anyone is associated or have any information about the Namatollahi order which originates and is located in Iran. I imagine there are some gatherings outside the country in which I am interested to participate. Any information is appreciated. for now, khoda hafez Mahmoud- Use Proportional Font: true Attachment Count: 0 --$----Novell--Attachment----$ X-NVL-Content-Type: UNKNOWN X-NVL-Content-Typename: UNKNOWN X-NVL-Content-Charset: X-IBM-437 X-NVL-Content-Filename: ATTRIBS.BND X-NVL-Content-Transfer-Encoding: X-UUENCODE begin 777 ATTRIBS.BND M0F5Y;VYD(%!A8VME9"!!='1R:6)U=&5S`([]"!\F"@``````0F5Y;VYD(%!R M;W!R:65T87)Y($1A=&$:`````!$```````0`!`#3```````````````````` M````````5&5X=$,! for tariqas-approval@world.std.com; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 11:56:48 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 11:56:48 -0500 (EST) From: GHADDAD@ccmail.sunysb.edu Subject: Re: ***Some words from Sheikh Nazim***** To: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Message-Id: <01HUQ0BNW44295SC7K@ccmail.sunysb.edu> X-Vms-To: in%"tariqas-approval@world.std.com" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Status: RO X-Status: State University of New York at Stony Brook Stony Brook, NY G. Fouad Haddad 31-Aug-1995 11:56am EDT FROM: GHADDAD TO: Morteza Elmolhoda ( _tariqas-approval@world.std.com ) Subject: RE: ***Some words from Sheikh Nazim***** as-salamu alaykum my Syed! How are you? I am Jibril, we met in London and Shaykh Hisham introduced us. How is your thesis coming? Thank you most kindly for your beautiful excerpt of Grandshaykh. was-salam,your brother (Gabriel) Fouad Haddad Naqshbandi-Haqqani Foudnation From tariqas-approval Thu Aug 31 07:52:46 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA10376; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 12:53:04 -0400 Received: from ccmail.sunysb.edu by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA10335; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 12:53:01 -0400 Received: from ccmail.sunysb.edu by ccmail.sunysb.edu (PMDF V5.0-3 #8051) id <01HUQ2A23D7495SCXO@ccmail.sunysb.edu> for tariqas@world.std.com; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 12:52:46 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 12:52:46 -0500 (EST) From: GHADDAD@ccmail.sunysb.edu Subject: [2] What are angels? To: tariqas@world.std.com Message-Id: <01HUQ2A2978295SCXO@ccmail.sunysb.edu> X-Vms-To: in%"tariqas@world.std.com" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: State University of New York at Stony Brook Stony Brook, NY G. Fouad Haddad 31-Aug-1995 12:48pm EDT FROM: GHADDAD TO: Remote Addressee ( _tariqas@world.std.com ) Subject: [2] What are angels? WHAT ARE ANGELS? (2) ================ Continuation of the introduction to <> by Shaykh Hisham Kabbani (KAZI Publications). The perfect state of human beings can no doubt never be achieved until the angelic power is linked with it. By God's permission, angels monopolize that angelic power which enlightens any human individual that connects with it. The perfection of human beings, therefore, depends on the capacity to annihilate the human soul in the crucible of the angels. The conclusion of this process is described in the Koranic verse: "Thou soul in complete rest and satisfaction! Return unto thy Lord, accepted and accepting! Enter thou among my servants (angels), and enter thou my Garden!" (89:27-30) According to that verse, God causes the spirit of human beings to enter the throng of the angels first, then Paradise. A condition of entering Paradise is to receive angelic greetings and revelation, at which time one enters it as a spirit endowed with angelic attributes. God then makes of such spirits messengers for His continuous creations; they are granted the happiness of living in Paradise and enjoying the sight of their Lord. God made the greetings of angels necessary for human beings when their spirits enter into the angelic power. This is to elevate them to a higher state and produce for them a great happiness. Therefore, without the heavenly input of angels, the spirit of human beings cannot reach everlasting happiness. The contribution of the angels to human happiness is derived from their perfection. Angels are free from any kind of anger, illusion, imagination, or delusion. This characteristic gives them the power to be in the divine presence and under God's divine light. It is because of these shortcomings that human beings are prevented from being in the divine presence. Because perfection resides only in the state of reaching the divine presence, only angels can properly be said to have the attribute of perfection among created beings. The spiritual dimensions of angels have different aspects. The angel is a sublime luminescence. His knowledge is perfect and complete because he knows the secret of the unseen and is acquainted with the hidden secrets of creation. His knowledge is real, active, and continuous. The action of the angel is genuine because angels are committed to serve and their commitment is perfectly carried through. Angels have influence over everything in nature including human nature. Nothing can grow on the planet earth: no trees, no grass, no vegetation, and no life without their interventon. You can see the effect of angelic power in the growth of a tiny plant cracking a huge rock in the middle. A special power overflowed onto that plant from above, a power which is essentially angelic. By divine permission, angels are the power behind every movement and every action in the physical realm of this universe. They have the power to change the orbits of stars and planets, adjust the movement of galaxies, and protect the earth from the movement of other astral bodies such as comets and asteroids. They do not feel the weight of this burden in any respect whatsoever because they are outside the dimension of gravity. They are able to move the winds as they like; the clouds appear and disappear as they like. Earthquakes move under their orders and volcanoes erupt under their touch. Entire continents emerge from the sea and are submerged by it through their power. Nature blossoms out of the fragrance of their heavenly touch. End of excerpt from Shaykh Hisham Kabbani. Blessings and Peace on the Prophet, his Family, and his Companions Fouad Haddad Naqshbandi-Haqqani Foundation From tariqas-approval Thu Aug 31 03:41:47 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA23567; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 13:50:04 -0400 Received: from halon.sybase.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA23493; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 13:49:59 -0400 Received: from sybase.com (sybgate.sybase.com) by halon.sybase.com (5.x/SMI-SVR4/SybFW4.0) id AA18413; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 10:49:14 -0700 Received: from serii.sybase.com ([158.159.40.63]) by sybase.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/SybH3.4) id AA27222; Thu, 31 Aug 95 10:51:20 PDT Received: by serii.sybase.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/SybEC3.2) id AA22245; Thu, 31 Aug 95 10:41:47 PDT Date: Thu, 31 Aug 95 10:41:47 PDT From: mateens@sybase.com (Mateen Siddiqui) Message-Id: <9508311741.AA22245@serii.sybase.com> To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Rufa'i Tariqa shaykh to inaugarate new place of worship Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: In the name of God, the Beneficent, the Merciful ANNOUNCING: Shaykh Mohammad Sayyid al-Jamal ar-Rufa'i, a shaykh of the Rufa'i Tariqa and Deputy Mufti and Prayer leader of the Holy Mosque in Jerasulem is going to inaugurate a new house of God in San Jose, California, this Friday, September 1st, 1995. Shaykh Mohammad, who is visiting from Jerusalem, has been speaking in centers in the San Francisco Bay Area about Palestine and about spirituality. Having just returned from the Naqshbandi Educational Foundation's Mawlid Conference (Celebration of the Birth of Prophet Muhammad) in Chicago, where he spoke on Sufism. Shaykh Mohammad will give the sermon and lead Friday communal prayer at Napredak Hall, 770 Montague Expy, San Jose. The prayer begins at 1:10 pm. ______________________________________________________________________ Naqshbandi-Haqqani Foundation URL:http://www.best.com/~informe/mateen/haqqani.html [in 7 languages] ----- End Included Message ----- From tariqas-approval Thu Aug 31 04:38:21 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA03982; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 14:46:37 -0400 Received: from halon.sybase.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA03758; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 14:46:28 -0400 Received: from sybase.com (sybgate.sybase.com) by halon.sybase.com (5.x/SMI-SVR4/SybFW4.0) id AA27578; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 11:45:47 -0700 Received: from serii.sybase.com ([158.159.40.63]) by sybase.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/SybH3.4) id AA10052; Thu, 31 Aug 95 11:47:54 PDT Received: by serii.sybase.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/SybEC3.2) id AA22280; Thu, 31 Aug 95 11:38:21 PDT Date: Thu, 31 Aug 95 11:38:21 PDT From: mateens@sybase.com (Mateen Siddiqui) Message-Id: <9508311838.AA22280@serii.sybase.com> To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: Namatollahi order Cc: mateens@sybase.com Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Dear Agha Mahmoud, Salam alaykum You can contact Ali Campbell alicamp@j51.com He used to be the representative of the Ni'matullahi shaykh. --mateen siddiqui ---------------------------------------------------- Naqshbandi-Haqqani Foundation url: http://www.best.com/~informe/mateen/haqqani.html In reply to: > From tariqas-approval@world.std.com Thu Aug 31 05:01:52 1995 > X-Nvlenv-01Date-Posted: 31-Aug-1995 7:59:16 -0400; at SGP.Bldg_40 > Priority: Urgent > X-Nvl-Content-Type: MULTIPART; 1-S; $----Novell--Attachment----$ > Date: 31 Aug 95 07:59:00 EDT > To: tariqas@world.std.com > Subject: Namatollahi order > X-Lines: 37 > > Form: Memo > Text: (12 lines follow) > salam alakom, to all friends. > > I like to know if anyone is associated or have any information about the > Namatollahi order which originates and is located in Iran. I imagine there > are some gatherings outside the country in which I am interested to > participate. > > Any information is appreciated. > > for now, > khoda hafez > Mahmoud- > Use Proportional Font: true From tariqas-approval Thu Aug 31 07:34:15 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA16810; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 15:34:19 -0400 Received: from callisto.unm.edu by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA16762; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 15:34:17 -0400 Received: by callisto.unm.edu (Smail3.1.28.1 #7) id m0soFNP-0000gBC; Thu, 31 Aug 95 13:34 MDT Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 13:34:15 -0600 (MDT) From: Sadra To: Tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Muhyiddin Ibn al-`Arabi Society Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Hi there-- I'm trying to find out how to become a member of the Muhyiddin Ibn al-`Arabi Society and recieve their bi-annual journal. If anyone knows, please e-mail me. Thanks. Warmest regards, Nima Hazini --- O God, cause us to see things as they really are - Hadith Strive to lead back the divine within you to the Divine in the All - Plotinus (d. 270 AD) From tariqas-approval Thu Aug 31 13:04:02 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA05073; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 17:04:09 -0400 Received: from mail04.mail.aol.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA05044; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 17:04:07 -0400 Received: by mail04.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id RAA23262 for tariqas@world.std.com; Thu, 31 Aug 1995 17:04:02 -0400 Date: Thu, 31 Aug 1995 17:04:02 -0400 From: Abdlqadir@aol.com Message-Id: <950831170401_68165847@mail04.mail.aol.com> To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Revive Sufism Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: A Some suggestions concerning the ongoing debate about the criteria defining "authentic" Sufism -- 1) No one person has the right to define for others what an "orthopractic" Sufism should be. Historically, there have been manifold, pluralistic expressions of both Sufism and Islam, which have vied with each other. Sometimes they have done so respectfully, sometimes (unfortunately) they have done so quite violently. 2) All mature Sufi guides have agreed that *fitna* or "combative mischief," is contrary to Islam, so is slandering or cursing one's opponent. Some "authorities" on Sufism who use this network might take note of this. 3) The use of the term "pseudo-sufi" to malign those who do not adhere to a specific school or interpretation of Islamic shariah is a form of slander, prohibited by Sufism, Qur'an, and the Sunnah. 4) Western schools of Sufism are not the only ones which admit non-muslims to their ranks. There are several Orders in the Near East which have also done so. I have personal knowledge of a branch of the Rifa'i in Syria which admits Christians, the Jerrahi Order in Turkey had admitted a Jewish Rabbi, and the Naqshbandhi-Melami school (originating in the Balkans) has also done so. 5) Adherence to Islam can (and does) take many different forms. Not all muslims (or "Orthopractic" Sufi leaders) espouse a return to the literalistic "shariah." 6) Historically (and currently) there are many tariqas which have functioned as Islamic revivalist movements. Some of them have espoused a return to theocratic governance, and some regard the secular, democratic form of government to be inherently "un-Islamic." One should be highly sceptical of such expressions of "Sufism." 7) The "insignia" of Sufis: caps, gowns, and ecstatic music do not constitute "Sufism" per se. From my own experience, Sufism entails a liberating form of gnosis (knowledge or direct experience) which transcends such devices. We should not confuse the outward symbols of Sufism with the Reality they may now, or have once, pointed towards. 8) Finally any Sufism which disrespects other major religious traditions is not the Sufism of Classical Tradition. One may politely disagree with other believers, but one has no authority, whatsoever, to disparage others who adhere to a belief in a Unified Source of Being, whether or not the latter is refered to as Allah (SWT). 9) A Shaykh is an "elder" in the Sufi community and not a god. Anyone claiming (or insinuating) that he or she is the infallable "Word of Allah," is likely to be a charlatan. Groups surrounding such leaders will show all of the common signs of being cults. I sincerely hope that more people interested in Sufism will use their God-given powers of discrimination and take care to educate themselves in all varieties of Sufism and Islam, neither neglecting the Qur'an and its Messenger, nor blindly following one interpretation of either or both. I am have been greatly disquieted by two tendancies I have observed on this forum: 1) intolerant "authorities" who purport to unilaterally represent the only "true" Islam and Sufism and; 2) people who have developed a "sentamentalist" approach to Sufism which neglects a deeper knowledge of Sufism's actual history and theosophical structuring. Anyone wishing a longer (hopefully) constructive criticism of tariqa proceedings are free to dialogue with me personally Abdl Qadir@aol.com. From tariqas-approval Thu Aug 31 23:19:59 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA02698; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 03:20:00 -0400 Received: from mail02.mail.aol.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA02687; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 03:19:59 -0400 Received: by mail02.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id DAA13415 for tariqas@world.std.com; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 03:19:59 -0400 Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 03:19:59 -0400 From: RHMH@aol.com Message-Id: <950901031958_88715159@mail02.mail.aol.com> To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: Ancient roots of Sufism Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: In a message dated 95-08-29 08:08:14 EDT, Maharaj writes: >Sufism, of course, predates all the religions and can be traced, in writing, >in the Library of Congress, to Ancient Egypt 6,000 years before the coming >of Christ. If anyone would like to research this fact, it will be my >pleasure to provide references to point the way. > > Maybe you can help with this one... HIK speaks of a Zorastrian named Hatim in the Gatheka papers... and I have heard that there is a reference somewhere in ancient writings (MANY years BCE) which refers to a Hatim as a "Zoroastrian Sufi"... have you come across any such reference? If so, how does one locate it? Thank you for your presence in the group, Ramabai From tariqas-approval Fri Sep 1 04:47:39 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA15306; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 08:47:40 -0400 Received: from dns.worldweb.net by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA15293; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 08:47:39 -0400 Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 08:47:39 -0400 Message-Id: <199509011247.AA15293@world.std.com> Received: from line171.worldweb.net by dns.worldweb.net with SMTP; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 9:00:01 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: jmccaig@worldweb.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@world.std.com From: James McCaig Subject: Re: Ancient roots of Sufism Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Dear Ramabai, At 03:19 AM 9/1/95 -0400, you wrote: >Maybe you can help with this one... HIK speaks of a Zorastrian named Hatim >in the Gatheka papers... and I have heard that there is a reference somewhere >in ancient writings (MANY years BCE) which refers to a Hatim as a >"Zoroastrian Sufi"... have you come across any such reference? If so, how >does one locate it? > >Thank you for your presence in the group, Ramabai > Our scholar is in Utah for 10 days. I will put the question to him on his return. If he can shed no light the question will be put to Pir-o-Murshid Hidayat. Thank you for such an interesting question. Warmest regards to you and all Sufi brothers and sisters. Maharaj James McCaig | Sufi Center of Washington Brotherhood/Sisterhood Representative | Keepers of Sufi Center Bookstore US Eastern Region | http://guess.worldweb.net/sufi jmccaig@worldweb.net From tariqas-approval Fri Sep 1 10:47:46 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA26627; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 09:48:47 -0400 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA26616; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 09:48:46 -0400 Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 09:48:46 +0059 (EDT) From: Steve H Rose Subject: Re: Revive Sufism To: tariqas@world.std.com In-Reply-To: <950831170401_68165847@mail04.mail.aol.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Assalamu alaikum. On Thu, 31 Aug 1995 Abdlqadir@aol.com wrote: > 4) Western schools of Sufism are not the only ones which admit non-muslims > to their ranks. There are several Orders in the Near East which have also > done so. I have personal knowledge of a branch of the Rifa'i in Syria which > admits Christians, the Jerrahi Order in Turkey had admitted a Jewish Rabbi, > and the Naqshbandhi-Melami school (originating in the Balkans) has also done > so. This was true in classical times as well. In fact, at least one great classical Sufi poet (Kabir) was, as far as I know, a Hindu, and not a Muslim (in a literal sense as most people understand the word). On the other hand, as far as I know, other Sufi schools have always required strict Shariah and acceptance of Islam. This apparent contradiction is one of the ways that Sufism is like the story of the elephant in the dark -- one person sees a "universalist" Sufi order and thinks "all Sufi orders are this way," another person sees an "islamic" Sufi order and thinks "all Sufi orders are this way." Both are correct, but both are limited. These orders operate as they do because they are working with different people at different times in different places with different needs. Sufism exists to do the work of Sufism, and takes whatever form it needs to function as effectively as possible. In my opinion, those of us who are open to such things may have much to gain from both approaches -- many of us who don't consider ourselves Muslims could learn a lot from Islam, many of us who do consider ourselves Muslims could learn a lot if we listened to other people and tried to learn about their paths BEFORE trying to convince them that our understanding is correct. But, for those of us who are most comfortable in one "camp" or the other, by being true to our own paths, Insh'Allah, we may become whatever we are meant to be. Yours, habib rose From tariqas-approval Fri Sep 1 10:56:17 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA03470; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 09:57:19 -0400 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA03452; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 09:57:17 -0400 Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 09:57:17 +0059 (EDT) From: Steve H Rose Subject: Sufism in Brazil To: tariqas@world.std.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Assalamu alaikum. If anyone has any information on Sufism in Brazil, or any Sufi contacts there, could you please send them to: Roberto ------------------------------------------------------- rcalvet@embratel.net.br Rio de Janeiro - Brasil Thanks! habib rose From tariqas-approval Thu Aug 31 13:05:00 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA06448; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 10:01:47 -0400 Received: from gatekeeper2.mcimail.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA06421; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 10:01:45 -0400 Received: from mailgate2.mcimail.com (mailgate2.mcimail.com [166.38.40.100]) by gatekeeper2.mcimail.com (8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id OAA24854; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 14:01:16 GMT Received: from mcimail.com by mailgate2.mcimail.com id ad11554; 1 Sep 95 14:00 WET Date: Thu, 31 Aug 95 18:05 EST From: Mike Moore <0007106488@mcimail.com> To: tariqas Subject: Re: :) ! again! Message-Id: <04950831230540/0007106488PJ4EM@MCIMAIL.COM> Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: >dear Michael; > yes humerous :) how do I do satire, or irony ? >thanks for the netiquet - Actually, I take :-) to be "I mean this in a light-hearted way". The ;-) means "sarcasm intended" or "I mean this jokingly". $:-) means "I am a happy sufi" and $:-P means "I am a Sufi who is sticking my tongue at you and saying na na n-na na". $:-* means "I am a sufi who is giving you a kiss to make up for sticking my tongue at you." -Michael- From tariqas-approval Thu Aug 31 06:24:00 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA09903; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 10:07:44 -0400 Received: from gatekeeper.mcimail.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA09886; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 10:07:42 -0400 Received: from mailgate.mcimail.com (mailgate.mcimail.com [166.38.40.3]) by gatekeeper.mcimail.com (8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id OAA22522; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 14:05:54 GMT Received: from mcimail.com by mailgate.mcimail.com id ae09335; 1 Sep 95 14:02 WET Date: Thu, 31 Aug 95 11:24 EST From: Mike Moore <0007106488@mcimail.com> To: tariqas Subject: Aisha's Hand (revised story) Message-Id: <13950831162431/0007106488PJ4EM@MCIMAIL.COM> Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Fouad, You were right, the story was not about camels. Here is the story as it appears in Karen Armstrong's book "Muhammad, a biography of the Prophet'. One day whil Aisha was in her early teens, Muhammad asked her to watch over a prisoner-of-war. Aisha became distracted and the man escaped. When Muhammad returned and discovered what had happened, he was furious: 'May al-Llah cut off your hand!' he shouted angrily to Aisha, as he rushed out of her apartment to persue the captive. Later, the prisoner recaptured, he returned home and found Aisha sitting glumly staring at her hands. What on earth was the matter with her, he asked? Had she been possessed by a jinni? Aisha replied that she wondered which hand al-Llah was going to cut off. Feeling rebuked and ashamed, Muhammad immediately apologised to the little girl and told her that he would pray that al-Llah would bless anybody whom he had ever cursed. There is no reference given for this story. Perhaps somebody else here will know of the source. Grace and Ease to you all, -Michael- From Majordomo-Owner@world.std.com Fri Sep 1 10:56:55 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA10898; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 10:56:55 -0400 Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 10:56:55 -0400 Message-Id: <199509011456.AA10898@world.std.com> To: tariqas-approval From: Majordomo@world.std.com Subject: SUBSCRIBE tariqas Reply-To: Majordomo@world.std.com Status: RO X-Status: -- spam@iac.net has been added to tariqas. No action is required on your part. From tariqas-approval Thu Aug 31 07:57:00 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA04406; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 11:34:13 -0400 Received: from gatekeeper2.mcimail.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA04388; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 11:34:11 -0400 Received: from mailgate2.mcimail.com (mailgate2.mcimail.com [166.38.40.100]) by gatekeeper2.mcimail.com (8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id PAA20768; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 15:33:42 GMT Received: from mcimail.com by mailgate2.mcimail.com id bo08651; 1 Sep 95 15:33 WET Date: Thu, 31 Aug 95 12:57 EST From: Mike Moore <0007106488@mcimail.com> To: tariqas Subject: Re: What are angels? Message-Id: <93950831175739/0007106488PJ4EM@MCIMAIL.COM> Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: I did encounter what I believe to be an angel. This angel was Temperance. I 'saw' two substances being poured together. I am tempted to call one substance 'good' and the other 'evil' but this is not right as these words carry too much baggage. More accurately the substances were 'this substance' and 'the other substance which is not this substance'. These two substances were poured, one into the other, and at the edge where the two substances met, at the place where the two pure substances became a mixture, there was a surface. This surface is all the created world. ( I deliberately use the word 'created' and not 'physical' here. ) Thus the created world was not the pure substances and not the mixture but the place of contact and turbulence between the two. The emotional content of this encounter was terrifying as though I were in an airplane plummeting towards the earth. I was immobilized by the awesome power and to some degree. In retrospect this immobilization was a blessing in that it removed a degree of identification with my terrified self allowing me step back from myself and observe passively. It was too much for me to absorb and I felt overwhelmed and panic as though about to drown. I've no idea how this fits into the Sufi view of the world and it may be take here by some as heresy. Clearly from this, I cannot believe that we live in a created world, but rather all of creation is the illusion of the process of Temperance. -Michael- From tariqas-approval Sat Sep 2 15:44:10 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA02470; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 16:06:05 -0400 Received: from yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA02321; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 16:05:55 -0400 Received: from localhost (darice@localhost) by yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (8.6.4/8.6.4) id GAA00765; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 06:05:52 +1000 Date: Sat, 2 Sep 1995 05:44:10 +1000 (EST) From: Fred Rice Subject: "Islamic Sufis" and other relitions (was Re: Shaykh Nazim) To: tariqas@world.std.com In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: On Wed, 30 Aug 1995, Zaineb wrote: > Assalamu alaykum wa rahmatullah. I'd like to make a couple comments on > what was said below. > > > You can see that "Islamic Sufis" will find it difficult to understand, much > > less know, what a person like me is all about, have little interest in the > > teachings of the East, e.g. Buddhism and Hinduism, or for that matter, > > Christianity or Judaism. > > You are very much mistaken about your assertion above. Would it be > possible to qualify your sweeping statement about "Islamic Sufis?" I am > an "Islamic Sufi" (if you will) though I would never refer to myself as > Sufi, that being a high state indeed, but I am a Muslim, born Muslim. I > have benefitted immensely from reading literature in all traditions and I > know for a fact that I am not the only Muslim who has done so. So, > let us kindly cut the generalizations and judgements. I agree with Zaineb, that this is an incorrect generalization. First, there are many "Islamic Sufis" who were not born to Muslim families so know another faith intimately from having been raised in it. Also, there are many people who have investigated other faiths in their path to the Sufi path. Also, there are many Muslims who have intimately investigated other faiths. I was raised as a Muslim, but I have tried to study and even tried to "live" (to understand it) some Taoist practices (which I personally don't find contradictory to Islam, at least not the teachings of the Tao Te Ching). I have also investigated a little bit the teachings of Chan/Zen Buddhism. Part of my motivation for this is the statement in the Qur'an that "To every people (was sent) an apostle" (10:47, Yusuf Ali translation) Since God sent prophets to "every people", this means that God must have sent prophets to China, to India, to the Australian Aborigines, to the American Indians, etc. This suggests strongly that people like Buddha or Lao Tzu were _probably_ prophets of God, according to the Quran's teachings. I can attest that many truths are to be found in the Tao Te Ching, and from this I personally do not doubt that the original was a revealed document, as is the Qur'an and portions of the Bible. Many parallels with Sufi teachings can also be found, (though often the metaphors used are different, which makes sense since they are messages to a specific culture). Also, we should not forget that people like Rumi and Ibn Arabi were "Islamic Sufis" (they were practicing Muslims who adhered to the Shari`ah, or Islamic teachings) and we probably all know of the statements that they made which are "inclusive" of other religions. However, I do personally believe that Islam is God's last revelation. This, though, does not negate any truths that can be found in the religious texts of the world's other religions, and of course also the Qur'an says that any who believe in God, does good deeds, and believes that they are accountable for their actions will "have their reward with their Lord" (Qur'an 2:62, 5:72), irrespective of their formal religion. Islam is a very inclusive religion, when you study the Qur'an! (Unfortunately, the same cannot be said for many Muslims, many who do not seem to study their own holy book. But there are also Muslims who do study the Qur'an, praise God.) Fred Rice From tariqas-approval Fri Sep 1 07:01:00 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA12100; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 21:59:31 -0400 Received: from gatekeeper.mcimail.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA12084; Fri, 1 Sep 1995 21:59:29 -0400 Received: from mailgate.mcimail.com (mailgate.mcimail.com [166.38.40.3]) by gatekeeper.mcimail.com (8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id BAA08217; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 01:57:41 GMT Received: from mcimail.com by mailgate.mcimail.com id ad25369; 2 Sep 95 1:58 WET Date: Fri, 1 Sep 95 12:01 EST From: Mike Moore <0007106488@mcimail.com> To: tariqas Subject: A dream Message-Id: <75950901170157/0007106488PJ2EM@MCIMAIL.COM> Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: I woke up this morning with a dream on my mind. The dream was of a ka'aba in Nevada. It was built for the purpose of bring comfort to the hearts of true seekers even pagans. It was not a substitute for a real pilgrimage. There could be circumambulations but all prayers would be offered facing the real Mecca. The dimensions were to scale. The surrounding land was similar to that of Mecca. There would be some basic facilities but nothing that would attract 'entrepreneurs'. It would be primitive perhaps as it looked in the time of Abraham. In the mosque last night as I listened to a Persian lady speak, I became keenly aware of her estrangement from her own world. I thought to my self at the time, "What could bring comfort to the thousands of middle easterners now living in this very different world?". "What could provide a place for Americans to the peace loving nature of Islam?" This is not mine to do, it is only a message to somebody out there. -Michael- From tariqas-approval Sat Sep 2 06:59:26 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA08640; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 06:59:26 -0400 Date: Sat, 2 Sep 1995 06:59:26 -0400 Message-Id: <199509021059.AA08640@world.std.com> To: tariqas-approval@world.std.com From: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Subject: BOUNCE tariqas@world.std.com: Non-member submission from [Caravan ] Status: RO X-Status: >From fifthd!root@uunet.uu.net Fri Sep 1 02:27:06 1995 Return-Path: Received: from relay4.UU.NET by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA08627; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 06:59:24 -0400 Received: from espace.dcl.com by relay4.UU.NET with SMTP id QQzflb04267; Sat, 2 Sep 1995 06:59:30 -0400 Message-Id: Received: from forthd by espace.dcl.com (MX V3.1C) with UUCP; Sat, 02 Sep 1995 03:59:12 PDT Received: by forthd.dcl.com (DECUS UUCP /2.0/2.0/2.0/); Sat, 2 Sep 95 00:31:55 PST Received: from fifthd by fifthd.uucp (UUPC/extended 1.12b) with UUCP; Fri, 01 Sep 1995 02:27:14 GMT From: Caravan To: tariqas@world.std.com Date: Fri, 1 Sep 1995 02:27:06 GMT+6 Subject: open dialogue Reply-To: root!fifthd@forthd.dcl.com Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.1 (R1a) as requested by Abdl Qadir in "revive Sufism" Peace be with you Your statements about "intolerant authorities" of "true Islam and Sufism" are "disquieting" unless your humor is intentional, because such a list of statements is itself authoritarian and Sufism- defining. A "deeper knowledge of Sufism's actual history and theosophical structuring" shows us Sufism is self-defining, by its own broad historical trends. Pseudo-Sufism is an appropriate label by your own definitions for those who lack the realization or attainment implied by such a term, and for those who are ignorant of the basic teachings and practices (and basis for such) of this path. That a few aturuq occasionally admit non-Muslims does not amount to a significant trend when compared to the overwhelming pattern of 14+ centuries of aturuq insisting upon some observation of shariah worldwide. A handful of non-profit tax-exempt societies and publishing companies which bow to Western anti-Muslim sentiments do not amount to a major trend in Sufism either. Most of the very few aturuq which admit non-Muslims do so as a conversion strategy. Do not overlook the obvious: if nominal devotees of other wisdom-ways are attracted to Sufism, either the tradition they were originally connected to lacked something for them which the Sufi path offered, or they are confused and attracted in several directions at once. One of the kinds of fana that is hardly mentioned in the West anymore, probably because it is so unpalatable to those who insist upon their ego while maintaining a posture of spirituality, is fana fi-tariqa, effacement in the teachings and practices of one's silsila. It has been pointed out on tariqas that "Sufism" is misused by uninformed Westerners to apply to generic spirituality, and as a lump- it-all-together term for several major mystical trends of Islamic spirituality (including jawanmardi, futuwwa, Isma'ili gnosis, Imami gnosis, qalandari, ayyari, malamati, etc). In recent years, we've all seen some downright weird stuff perpetrated as Sufism, including dances to pagan entities, equation of African nature spirits with Asma al-Husna, rejection of the Prophets, and other outright nonsense. We're in agreement about many of your statements, for whatever that is worth. Again, peace be with you, Abdl Qadir, and to all tariqas readers. Vegetarian hamburgers, - Daniel Muzaffer Donnell -- Caravan khadim@forthd.dcl.com From tariqas-approval Sun Sep 3 01:16:55 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA21653; Sun, 3 Sep 1995 14:30:55 -0400 Received: from mailrelay.pixi.com (sirius.pixi.com) by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA21642; Sun, 3 Sep 1995 14:30:52 -0400 Received: from pixiuser.pixi.com by mailrelay.pixi.com (8.6.10/SMI-4.1) id IAA03693; Sun, 3 Sep 1995 08:32:19 -1000 Message-Id: Date: Sun, 3 Sep 95 08:16:55 PDT From: sanjuan5@pixi.com (alberto san juan jr) To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Bismillah ir-Rahman ir-Rahim Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Bismillah ir-Rahman ir-Rahim Love and salaams. One of the things which first attracted me to sufism was its respect and acceptance of all the revealed traditions. The first question I asked my beloved Sheikh Muzaffer was "Does one have to be Muslim in order to become a dervish?" His answer was that if one is a true Jew or Christian one is already a Muslim. My understanding of this is that only Allah knows who is and is not a believer, and only Allah knows the hearts of His servants. If one loves Truth and wishes to know and fulfill his purpose of being created, one is most likely a believer (Muslim). There is no compulsion in Islam. There are probably so many Muslims (believers) who would never call themselves Muslim, only Allah knows. Let us go to the Heart and leave the labels, let us go beyond the Names to the Named. May Allah make the way easy, and cause us to be pleasing to Himself. All love to all of you. I'll go back to lurking! Reyhan al-Jerrahi P.S. If any of you or your friends will be visiting Hawaii, please come and visit us. We live in Honolulu and have Dhikr regularly on Thursday evenings. Salaams and best wishes. From Majordomo-Owner@world.std.com Sun Sep 3 14:37:40 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA23258; Sun, 3 Sep 1995 14:37:40 -0400 Date: Sun, 3 Sep 1995 14:37:40 -0400 Message-Id: <199509031837.AA23258@world.std.com> To: tariqas-approval From: Majordomo@world.std.com Subject: SUBSCRIBE tariqas Reply-To: Majordomo@world.std.com Status: RO X-Status: -- "Robert G. Kirkpatrick, III" has been added to tariqas. No action is required on your part. From Majordomo-Owner@world.std.com Mon Sep 4 01:42:04 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA08724; Mon, 4 Sep 1995 01:42:04 -0400 Date: Mon, 4 Sep 1995 01:42:04 -0400 Message-Id: <199509040542.AA08724@world.std.com> To: tariqas-approval From: Majordomo@world.std.com Subject: APPROVE tariqas Reply-To: Majordomo@world.std.com Status: RO X-Status: -- SNAPSHUTS@aol.com requests that you approve the following: subscribe tariqas snapshut If you approve, please send a message such as the following back to Majordomo@world.std.com (with the appropriate PASSWORD filled in, of course): approve PASSWORD subscribe tariqas snapshut If you disapprove, do nothing. Thanks! Majordomo@world.std.com From tariqas-approval Sun Sep 3 17:20:36 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA13006; Mon, 4 Sep 1995 04:03:34 -0400 Received: from mail1.wolfe.net by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA12999; Mon, 4 Sep 1995 04:03:32 -0400 Received: from [204.157.98.178] (sea-ts2-p52.wolfe.net [204.157.98.178]) by mail1.wolfe.net (8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id BAA22830 for ; Mon, 4 Sep 1995 01:07:02 -0700 X-Sender: gws@gonzo.wolfe.net Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 4 Sep 1995 00:20:36 -0700 To: tariqas@world.std.com From: gws@WOLFE.net (George Steffen) Subject: Re: Apologize to a Shaykh ? Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: >>Dear tariqas folks, >> >>salaam alaykum. >> >>I sincerely apologize for the post about brother Abd Kabir. It >>was definitely in bad taste and I ask forgiveness from >>all concerned, namely you readers, Abd Kabir and Shaykh Kabir. >> >>--taher > >I've been told that it is only our nafs that can take offence. Also, >I've been told that a Shaykh is a person that has conquered his/her >nafs. >An apology is meant to assuage a person who has taken offence. >So, by apologizing to a shaykh, are you not insulting him by implying >that he has taken offence and hence his nafs have not been conquered? > >I DEMAND that you retract this apology! > > ;-) just kidding > >-Michael- > > > Assalam Alaikum So we see that even logic has its uses. Salams, Habib N.