From tariqas-approval Mon Sep 4 12:05:06 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA01340; Mon, 4 Sep 1995 12:05:06 -0400 Date: Mon, 4 Sep 1995 12:05:06 -0400 Message-Id: <199509041605.AA01340@world.std.com> To: tariqas-approval@world.std.com From: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Subject: BOUNCE tariqas@world.std.com: Non-member submission from [David Hatcher ] Status: RO X-Status: >From davidh@netman.ENS.TEK.COM Mon Sep 4 02:04:30 1995 Return-Path: Received: from inet1.tek.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA01272; Mon, 4 Sep 1995 12:05:04 -0400 Received: by inet1.tek.com id ; Mon, 4 Sep 1995 09:05:37 -0700 Received: from tektronix.tek.com(134.62.48.24) by inet1 via smap (V1.3) id sma023745; Mon Sep 4 09:05:08 1995 Received: from cascade.ENS.TEK.COM by tektronix.TEK.COM (4.1/8.2) id AA23867; Mon, 4 Sep 95 09:04:21 PDT Received: from netman.ENS.TEK.COM by cascade.ENS.TEK.COM (5.0/8.1) id AA03824; Mon, 4 Sep 1995 09:05:45 -0700 Received: from localhost.TEK by netman.ENS.TEK.COM (4.1/8.0) id AA26998; Mon, 4 Sep 95 09:04:31 PDT Message-Id: <9509041604.AA26998@netman.ENS.TEK.COM> To: tariqas@world.std.COM Cc: davidh@cascade.ENS.TEK.COM Subject: Re: open dialogue (fwd) In-Reply-To: Your message of "Sat, 02 Sep 1995 10:45:20 -0101." Date: Mon, 04 Sep 1995 09:04:30 PDT From: David Hatcher Content-Length: 1365 Daniel Muzaffer Donnell wrote: >One of the kinds of fana that is hardly mentioned in the West >anymore, probably because it is so unpalatable to those who insist >upon their ego while maintaining a posture of spirituality, is fana >fi-tariqa, effacement in the teachings and practices of one's >silsila. I'd say that it has much more to do with the west's simply not knowing of the importance of fana fi-tariqa than any attempt to maintain ego posturing. Personally, I have been watching the wonderful work that these non-Muslim Tariqa's have been doing and I feel very proud to be apart of them. The arguments, to me, may or may not be valid that they are not in truth "Sufi". What is valid though is the heart condition of their followers as they bask in the awareness and blessings of their Beloved, Allah. To me, that's the bottom line and (again, to me) is what REALLY is important here. I'm wondering, are the non-Muslim Tariqa's being judged in this forum? If so, what criteria is being used? What's the basses of judgement? I have to ask: Is there a way or place of Unity where the Muslim and non-Muslim Tariqa's can be united with in this forum? As for me, that way and place is very clear! It's in our uniting as one in the heart of our Beloved, Allah. From that place we will than relate to each other, heart to heart. David From tariqas-approval Mon Sep 4 17:11:54 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA09827; Tue, 5 Sep 1995 03:11:57 -0400 Received: from carson-oms2.u.washington.edu by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA09805; Tue, 5 Sep 1995 03:11:55 -0400 Received: from carson.u.washington.edu by carson-oms2.u.washington.edu (5.65+UW95.08/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id AA22551; Tue, 5 Sep 95 00:11:54 -0700 Date: Tue, 5 Sep 1995 00:11:54 -0700 (PDT) From: "L. Ila" To: tariqasnet Subject: Invitation to the first Internet Barmitvah party...ALL WELCOME (fwd) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: asalaam-u-aleikum Sorry this is so long but I think it's worth it. love to all Lily ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Mon, 04 Sep 1995 18:44:26 GMT From: Schwann Newgroups: alt.techno-shamanism, alt.society.neutopia, soc.culture.jewish, alt.consciousness, alt.religion.islam, alt.religion.all-worlds, alt.religion.shamanism, talk.religion.misc Subject: Invitation to the first Internet Barmitvah party...ALL WELCOME These were the speeches: I wrote mine and Leo wrote his. Honoured family members, friends, netpeople and especially, my son, Leo, Leo, today is a day you will remember all your life and i have chosen these words very carefully to try and give you something of value to take from me into the future with you. Rabbi spoke today of self fulfilling prophecies, well, i have had experience of this in my own life. Some good, some bad... But mostly good...anticipation IS a form of "remembering the future". It is a truth that when we expect something bad to happen it often does. But in reality not many of us can turn this around and make it work for good. Leo, i bestow upon you the gift of positive thinking. May it serve you well. Also, a tip, 'fear not fear itself'. Know what you are scared of but do not let it colour your world. Isolate your fears. This makes positive thinking work all the better. Last night in shul the Rabbi mentioned parallelism. In computer terminology we call this MULTI-TASKING... and this rite of passage for Leo was one for me too. Seeing my son Leo on the bimah today of course brought many memories flooding back to me. Do i remember the past as it truly was? I used to think that hindsight is a perfect science but recently i have realised that this is not so. For a fact i cannot remember anything unpleasant about my barmitzvah except not yet having a steady girlfriend. Leo, the situation might take some time to change. Then again, with your looks i may be wrong... Leo, as a young man you must begin to ask yourself these questions. Who am I Why am i here? Where am i going.. When i was growing up like you, i did not always ask the right questions and thus sometimes had no choice in what happened to me. Leo, you are lucky in this respect. I have encouraged your aptitudes. You have shown me that you could take something on and stick with it like you have done with your Judo career. There are few young men of 13 who could lay claim to having already represented Western Province in the National Judo Competition when they were just 11, and, taken a very credible 4th place against stiff opposition at that. I heard from your Barmitvah teacher that you were a bit of a problem pupil at the start, but once you had committed yourself to the task and applied your mind to it there was little that could stop you. Those of you who were in shul this morning will have heard this for themselves. It appears that you are already using the power of positive thought. Keep it up. Leo. I am very proud of you... It was not so long ago that my daughter had her batmitvah, two years ago in fact. The last two years have been the most stimulating ones of my life. This would not have been possible without my fathers support and belief in me. Dad, i would like to say thanks for everything. You have allowed me the time to write my book and to reinvent myself, as it were. This was indeed a boon i may not have deserved but i solemnly promise you that i will do my best to be worthy of the trust you have placed in me.. Carmel, you have supported Dad through his recent vertigo illness and been his friend. Ron, Viv, and myself thank you sincerely. [To my ex-wife], although we have had our diffrences i salute you for bringing up our children in an atmosphere of love and affection. To my wife To quote the beachboys..."God only knows what i'd be without you..." and since i am pledged to positive thought processess i will not even think about it...Thank you for everything you have done for all our children.. To my late Mom, i miss you and think of you. To all my departed relatives we are thinking of you here at this simcha, and especially Grandma Anne and Granny Hinda Grandpa Pesach..we miss you... That which is ALL is ONE Begin the UNIFICATION Join space and time What has been one, will be ONE again TERRA, Planet of Ignorance will you join with us, in our quest Unification or WILL YOU FORGET? As the OTHERS have done! Just a quick mention of some current fundamental issues today which revolve around whether Truth is an Objective Reality to Which humans must submit and conform--what i mean to say is, was man Created in the image of Truth--or is man the Objective Reality to Which Truth must submit and conform--or, is Truth created by man in his own image. And a few throwaway lines of philosophy before i stand down. Tranform your lives through a synergy of science and art If Paranoia is your status quo then CALM DOWN TO A PANIC Think Locally but act Globally Friends, please eat drink and be merry and enjoy this Temporal Event Sequence. Leo Responds..... 2/8/95 Hi Everyone. Thank you for coming and blessing our simcha. Granddad, Mom, my step-mom, Dad, relatives and friends...According to Jewish tradition, on this day i become a man. The transition from boyhood to manhood was not an easy one. Studying my barmitvah portion for six months and listening to my sister telling me things like; 'be quiet', 'stop singing', 'I'm getting a headache' was traumatic..and I'm sure it was not much fun for her either. But i managed to survive to this day to stand here before you and tell you what it feels like to be a barmitvah boy. I can tell you that every minute is an exiting one. I never know what is going to happen next. It was not easy studying for my barmitvah when my school work just kept piling on. The feeling of not having done your barmitvah homework while having another project due for the next day is an experience in itself. Even when I did do my barmitvah homework I worried that I would forget it by the next day. This HAS happened to me before. Thankfully I remembered to bring this piece of paper so I think I've got it covered.. I feel privileged to have been granted such a wonderful occasion and to have sung my barmitva portion in the Marais Rd shul, where my father, Grandfather and great-grandfather worshipped. It was a meaningful experience for me as my Great Grandfather Pesach, aleichem shalom, was a sopher. One of his Torot still resides in the aaron ha kodesh at the Marais Rd. shul. It is a great honour for me to have passed into manhood surrounded by such tradition. I will cherish this occasion all my life. I would now like to offer thanks to my family who each in their own way have made my life, and this simcha, possible. Dearest Grandad, I am pleased to have the chance now to thank you for everything you have done for me. Thanks again for your generosity. Mom, you are always there when i need you. Thank you for organising my barmitzvah and taking time out of your life to make it a success. To my step-mom thanks for being my kind and helpful. Dad, thanks for always sticking up for me when the going gets tough and i could never have rendered my barmitzvah without the confidence you gave me. and to my sister, who is two years and two days older than me, however much we may have irritated each other, you still did your part and always lent me an ear when i needed one. And to the smallest one in the family, my little sister of five years old that you have seen running around with her curls always flying, you always give me something to smile about. Keep it up. Also i would like to thank my barmitzvah teacher for giving me personal attention. It made all the difference to me. At this stage i would like to remember all those who cannot be with us today. We will always keep them with us. I could go on for longer, but i think I will let some one else have a chance now. Once again, thanks very much for coming, and please, ENJOY OUR HOSPITALITY.. well those were the speeches... it was a real family affair. like an Italian wedding.. there was food and plenty to drink we were all types and creeds from Bahai to Muslim. we played mixed sound and Azmazz arranged a video wall with the latest rave graphics and the oldies were hanging on to their tables and asking us to turn the sound down. i guess i haven't grown up hope you enjoyed the party love... schwann From tariqas-approval Mon Sep 4 17:43:44 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA18193; Tue, 5 Sep 1995 03:46:35 -0400 Received: from netcom3.netcom.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA18187; Tue, 5 Sep 1995 03:46:33 -0400 Received: by netcom3.netcom.com (8.6.12/Netcom) id AAA15999; Tue, 5 Sep 1995 00:43:45 -0700 Date: Tue, 5 Sep 1995 00:43:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Steven Finkelman Subject: Re: Shaykh Nazim To: tariqas@world.std.com Cc: tariqas@world.std.com In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: I praise he who praises Sheik Nizam, and I praize his praising. I love he who loves. I was taught: "follow the way of respect until you know the way of love." He who respects is following his path how can fault be found with this. All is One. Love is all. I love. That is *All* AriLeib From tariqas-approval Tue Sep 5 13:21:10 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA22085; Tue, 5 Sep 1995 12:22:12 -0400 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA21985; Tue, 5 Sep 1995 12:22:10 -0400 Date: Tue, 5 Sep 1995 12:22:10 +0059 (EDT) From: Steve H Rose Subject: Re: open dialogue (fwd) To: tariqas@world.std.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: From: David Hatcher Daniel Muzaffer Donnell wrote: >One of the kinds of fana that is hardly mentioned in the West >anymore, probably because it is so unpalatable to those who insist >upon their ego while maintaining a posture of spirituality, is fana >fi-tariqa, effacement in the teachings and practices of one's >silsila. I'd say that it has much more to do with the west's simply not knowing of the importance of fana fi-tariqa than any attempt to maintain ego posturing. Personally, I have been watching the wonderful work that these non-Muslim Tariqa's have been doing and I feel very proud to be apart of them. The arguments, to me, may or may not be valid that they are not in truth "Sufi". What is valid though is the heart condition of their followers as they bask in the awareness and blessings of their Beloved, Allah. To me, that's the bottom line and (again, to me) is what REALLY is important here. I'm wondering, are the non-Muslim Tariqa's being judged in this forum? If so, what criteria is being used? What's the basses of judgement? I have to ask: Is there a way or place of Unity where the Muslim and non-Muslim Tariqa's can be united with in this forum? As for me, that way and place is very clear! It's in our uniting as one in the heart of our Beloved, Allah. From that place we will than relate to each other, heart to heart. David From tariqas-approval Tue Sep 5 11:30:20 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA24329; Tue, 5 Sep 1995 15:34:27 -0400 Received: from emout04.mail.aol.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA24166; Tue, 5 Sep 1995 15:34:24 -0400 Received: by emout04.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id PAA02717 for tariqas@world.std.com; Tue, 5 Sep 1995 15:30:20 -0400 Date: Tue, 5 Sep 1995 15:30:20 -0400 From: Abdlqadir@aol.com Message-Id: <950905152400_11504637@emout04.mail.aol.com> To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: the AbdKabir Controversy Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: On 08/22/95 Ghaddad@ccmail.sunysb.net wrote: > Shyakh Hisham's mission in the U.S. is to spread the > teachings of the Naqshbandhi Sufi Way which is the only > pure and true representative of Islam and the Way of > the Prophet(s) in our time. On 08/23/95 tbear@access.digex.net wrote: > the best response to such a claim is that it is CRAP, > "pure and true" crap. On 08/24/95 Mattens@sybase.com responded: > Bravo! Abd Kabir is very jealous of Shaykh Nazim. > Who is he? Is he Kabir hellmiskeen? For readers who do not understand the Arabic nuances included in this statement, "miskeen" means "one who is wandering." Therefore, we can assume that "hell-miskeen" would refer to one who is "lost in hell, mindlessly." In addition, this pseudonym is obviously a play on Kabir Helminski, the well-known writer, publisher, and American-born Shaykh of the Mevleviyya. How Mr. Siddiqui, a representative of Shaykh Hisham al-Kibbani, could jump to the conclusion that "AbdlKabir" could be Shaykh Helminski in disguise is beyond my comprehension. The fact that the former would hasten to such a conclusion, and then slur Dr. Helminski, no only insults the latter, but is offensive to his murids, and to those of us who respect him and the Mevlevi lineage. On 08/24/95 Zi1columbia.edu (Zaineb) acknowledged: > a swipe at Shaykh Kabir Helminski On 08/25/95 tbear@access.digex.net (AbdKabir) reported: > On thurs, 24 Aug. 1995, Mateen Siddiqui wrote: > I sincerely apologize for the post about AbdKabir > It was definately in bad taste and I ask forgiveness > from all concerned, namely your readers, AbdKabir and > Shaykh Kabir - Taher. Readers might note that "bad taste" is hardly adequate in describing the bad-faith and irresponsibility displayed by Mr. Siddiqui in his first posting. In addition, the above was not (as far as I could discover) posted publically in the tariqas network. Neither did AbdKabir clarify that he, himself, is NOT Shaykh Kabir Helminski, nor apologize for his bad taste in using the word "crap" ....another act of irresponsibility. In fact....On 08/27/95 rayl@idea.cc.com continued to mistakenly identify AbdlKabir with Sh. Helminski, due (no doubt) to the fact that AbdKabir did not clarify his true identity, and also due to the fact that Mr. Siddiqui did not bother to make his apology a public listing. Both are culpable in this instance. On 08/26/95 ahmad@iconz.co.nz stated hatefully: > ....who needs shaitan! My advise to Abd Kabir is to > get off this group while you can. Who knows whether this indirect threat has been offered to Shaykh Kabir Helminski as well? Perhaps, due to Siddiqui and AbdlKabir, Mr. Ahmad continues to BELIEVE that the latter is one and the same as former. And perhaps Mr. Ahmad is as fanatical (and deranged) as he sounds and will make good with physical violence against all he believes to be "shaitan!" Along with the half-apology Mr. Siddiqui offers we notice him rationalizing Gaddad's first pronouncement by stating (8/25/95): > The style employed by Fouad [Gaddad] in previous posts > is very common in Arabic Islamic literature... > because of the use of eloquence and subtleties of the > language to create "flourishes" of meaning, like a > painter on a canvas. Fouad Gaddad hardly resorts to "flourishes of meaning," or "subtletleties" when he states that the Naqshbandi Sufi Way "is the only pure and true representative of Islam and the Way of the Prophet(s) in our time." On the contrary, what we have in this instance is a perfectly literal statement which by implication disqualifies any other representation of Islam as "pure and true." Fouad Gaddad replies to AbdKabir's rebuttal to that claim (8/23/95): "Perhaps you were thrown off by that claim [above] because of your conception that only one shaykh or one tariqa can make it at one and the same time," In doing so, he deflects from our attention that it was *he* and not AbdKabir who stated the situation as such; unless by "mak[ing] it at one and the same time," Gaddad means competing in the market-place of Sufism while *actually* being im"pure" and un"true." I find both Mr. Siddiqui's and Mr. Gaddad's responses to be an insult to our intelligence. I am sure that both of these gentlemen are competent enough in the English language to convey to us what they really mean if they choose. In the meanwhile, the leave us with the reasonable impression that they are attacking the legitimacy of other tariqas by insinuation and by implication. This, I find to be even more distasteful than AbdlKabir's usage of the word "crap" to refer their attempts to do so. Asalamu Alaykum From tariqas-approval Tue Sep 5 12:04:50 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA22465; Tue, 5 Sep 1995 16:04:54 -0400 Received: from dns.worldweb.net by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA22220; Tue, 5 Sep 1995 16:04:50 -0400 Date: Tue, 5 Sep 1995 16:04:50 -0400 Message-Id: <199509052004.AA22220@world.std.com> Received: from line108.worldweb.net by dns.worldweb.net with SMTP; Tue, 5 Sep 1995 15:26:19 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: jmccaig@worldweb.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@world.std.com From: James McCaig Subject: Re: open dialogue (fwd) Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: At 12:22 PM 9/5/95 +0059, you wrote: Dear David, For me, you have put your finger on the essence of Sufim. Sufism is about Unity. It is about finding the areas where we agree, rather than where we disagree. All the bringers of the world's six great religions gave essentially the same message, cast in various ways to suit the recipients in thier time and place. The Message is alive. Thank you for your comments. > >I have to ask: Is there a way or place of Unity where the Muslim and >non-Muslim Tariqa's can be united with in this forum? > >As for me, that way and place is very clear! > >It's in our uniting as one in the heart of our Beloved, Allah. From that >place we will than relate to each other, heart to heart. > > > David > > > > Maharaj James McCaig | Sufi Center of Washington Brotherhood/Sisterhood Representative | Keepers of Sufi Center Bookstore United States | http://guess.worldweb.net/sufi jmccaig@worldweb.net From tariqas-approval Tue Sep 5 12:58:36 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA15446; Tue, 5 Sep 1995 16:58:39 -0400 Received: from mail02.mail.aol.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA15406; Tue, 5 Sep 1995 16:58:36 -0400 Received: by mail02.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id QAA22392 for tariqas@world.std.com; Tue, 5 Sep 1995 16:58:36 -0400 Date: Tue, 5 Sep 1995 16:58:36 -0400 From: NurLuna@aol.com Message-Id: <950905165230_11564350@mail02.mail.aol.com> To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Question for Brother Adbkabir Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: As-salaam aleikum, brother Abdkabir -- and to all of tariqas. I've been following your exchanges with brother Fouad and with other tariqas members with interest, in light of something you wrote recently in a discussion with brother Mark and brother Michael. The subject was the potential spiritual value of agressive confrontations. In a message dated July 13, you describe online verbal warfare (my term) as: > ....playful call to arms, with emphasis on play, > and heart and exchange and struggling and darting through and past and > over the landmines, machinegun fire and artillary flak of argument to > attain new insights, higher and deeper thoughts, fragments of the > marifah. So -- I am curious. What new insights have you attained over this matter with brother Fouad? Have higher and deeper thoughts resulted? I admit that I continue to be skeptical about the value of pursuing spiritual growth through essentially trying to "prove" other people "wrong." Can this really lead to a closer walk with the Beloved? If it doesn't, then it has no real value -- my bias. But I am willing to learn otherwise from your learning, if you are willing to share it. Farrunnissa From tariqas-approval Tue Sep 5 15:41:06 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA29126; Tue, 5 Sep 1995 19:41:09 -0400 Received: from dns.worldweb.net by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA29071; Tue, 5 Sep 1995 19:41:06 -0400 Date: Tue, 5 Sep 1995 19:41:06 -0400 Message-Id: <199509052341.AA29071@world.std.com> Received: from line113.worldweb.net by dns.worldweb.net with SMTP; Tue, 5 Sep 1995 19:53:17 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: jmccaig@worldweb.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@world.std.com From: James McCaig Subject: Re: the AbdKabir Controversy Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: At 03:30 PM 9/5/95 -0400, you wrote a response to end all responses. It's good to encounter a person who reads the mail in detail, rather than just skimming the ideas to get the other man's point of view. Nobody would accuse you of being "miskeen" in the mail. >On 08/22/95 Ghaddad@ccmail.sunysb.net wrote: > >> Shyakh Hisham's mission in the U.S. is to spread the >> teachings of the Naqshbandhi Sufi Way which is the only >> pure and true representative of Islam and the Way of >> the Prophet(s) in our time. > >On 08/23/95 tbear@access.digex.net wrote: > >> the best response to such a claim is that it is CRAP, >> "pure and true" crap. > >On 08/24/95 Mattens@sybase.com responded: > >> Bravo! Abd Kabir is very jealous of Shaykh Nazim. >> Who is he? Is he Kabir hellmiskeen? > >For readers who do not understand the Arabic nuances included in this >statement, "miskeen" means "one who is wandering." Therefore, we can assume >that "hell-miskeen" would refer to one who is "lost in hell, mindlessly." In >addition, this pseudonym is obviously a play on Kabir Helminski, the >well-known writer, publisher, and American-born Shaykh of the Mevleviyya. > How Mr. Siddiqui, a representative of Shaykh Hisham al-Kibbani, could jump >to the conclusion that "AbdlKabir" could be Shaykh Helminski in disguise is >beyond my comprehension. The fact that the former would hasten to such a >conclusion, and then slur Dr. Helminski, no only insults the latter, but is >offensive to his murids, and to those of us who respect him and the Mevlevi >lineage. > >On 08/24/95 Zi1columbia.edu (Zaineb) acknowledged: > >> a swipe at Shaykh Kabir Helminski > >On 08/25/95 tbear@access.digex.net (AbdKabir) reported: > >> On thurs, 24 Aug. 1995, Mateen Siddiqui wrote: >> I sincerely apologize for the post about AbdKabir >> It was definately in bad taste and I ask forgiveness >> from all concerned, namely your readers, AbdKabir and >> Shaykh Kabir - Taher. > >Readers might note that "bad taste" is hardly adequate in describing the >bad-faith and irresponsibility displayed by Mr. Siddiqui in his first >posting. In addition, the above was not (as far as I could discover) posted >publically in the tariqas network. Neither did AbdKabir clarify that he, >himself, is NOT Shaykh Kabir Helminski, nor apologize for his bad taste in >using the word "crap" ....another act of irresponsibility. In fact....On >08/27/95 rayl@idea.cc.com continued to mistakenly identify AbdlKabir with Sh. >Helminski, due (no doubt) to the fact that AbdKabir did not clarify his true >identity, and also due to the fact that Mr. Siddiqui did not bother to make >his apology a public listing. Both are culpable in this instance. > >On 08/26/95 ahmad@iconz.co.nz stated hatefully: > >> ....who needs shaitan! My advise to Abd Kabir is to >> get off this group while you can. > >Who knows whether this indirect threat has been offered to Shaykh Kabir >Helminski as well? Perhaps, due to Siddiqui and AbdlKabir, Mr. Ahmad >continues to BELIEVE that the latter is one and the same as former. And >perhaps Mr. Ahmad is as fanatical (and deranged) as he sounds and will make >good with physical violence against all he believes to be "shaitan!" > >Along with the half-apology Mr. Siddiqui offers we notice him rationalizing >Gaddad's first pronouncement by stating (8/25/95): > >> The style employed by Fouad [Gaddad] in previous posts >> is very common in Arabic Islamic literature... >> because of the use of eloquence and subtleties of the >> language to create "flourishes" of meaning, like a >> painter on a canvas. > >Fouad Gaddad hardly resorts to "flourishes of meaning," or "subtletleties" >when he states that the Naqshbandi Sufi Way "is the only pure and true >representative of Islam and the Way of the Prophet(s) in our time." On the >contrary, what we have in this instance is a perfectly literal statement >which by implication disqualifies any other representation of Islam as "pure >and true." > >Fouad Gaddad replies to AbdKabir's rebuttal to that claim (8/23/95): > >"Perhaps you were thrown off by that claim [above] because of your conception >that only one shaykh or one tariqa can make it at one and the same time," > >In doing so, he deflects from our attention that it was *he* and not AbdKabir >who stated the situation as such; unless by "mak[ing] it at one and the same >time," Gaddad means competing in the market-place of Sufism while *actually* >being im"pure" and un"true." > >I find both Mr. Siddiqui's and Mr. Gaddad's responses to be an insult to our >intelligence. I am sure that both of these gentlemen are competent enough in >the English language to convey to us what they really mean if they choose. > In the meanwhile, the leave us with the reasonable impression that they are >attacking the legitimacy of other tariqas by insinuation and by implication. > This, I find to be even more distasteful than AbdlKabir's usage of the word >"crap" to refer their attempts to do so. > >Asalamu Alaykum > Maharaj James McCaig | Sufi Center of Washington Brotherhood/Sisterhood Representative | Keepers of Sufi Center Bookstore United States | http://guess.worldweb.net/sufi jmccaig@worldweb.net From tariqas-approval Tue Sep 5 11:05:50 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA25211; Tue, 5 Sep 1995 21:14:52 -0400 Received: from halon.sybase.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA25186; Tue, 5 Sep 1995 21:14:49 -0400 Received: from sybase.com (sybgate.sybase.com) by halon.sybase.com (5.x/SMI-SVR4/SybFW4.0) id AA09812; Tue, 5 Sep 1995 18:13:26 -0700 Received: from serii.sybase.com ([158.159.40.63]) by sybase.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/SybH3.4) id AA26841; Tue, 5 Sep 95 18:15:31 PDT Received: by serii.sybase.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/SybEC3.2) id AA23233; Tue, 5 Sep 95 18:05:50 PDT Date: Tue, 5 Sep 95 18:05:50 PDT From: mateens@sybase.com (Mateen Siddiqui) Message-Id: <9509060105.AA23233@serii.sybase.com> To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Bayazid al-Bistami Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Excerpt from "The Naqshbandi Way: History and Guidebook of the Saints of the Golden Chain.", by Shaykh Muhammad Hisham Kabbani, KAZI Publications, 1995. ...[Sayiddina Ja'far as-Sadiq] passed on the secret of the Golden Chain to his successor, Tayfur Abu Yazid al-Bistami, otherwise more commonly known as Bayazid al-Bistami... Chapter 6 Tayfur Abu Yazid al-Bistami (q) I have planted love in my heart, and shall not be distracteduntil Judgment Day. You have wounded myheart when You came near me. My desire grows, my love is bursting. He has poured me a sip to drink. He has quickened my heart withthecup of love. Which He has filled at the ocean of friendship. Bayazid. Bayazid's grandfather was a Zoroastrian from Persia. Bayazid made a detailed study of the statutes of Islamic law (shari'a) and practiced self-denial (zuhd). All his life he was assiduous in the practice of his religious obligations and in observing voluntary worship. He urged his disciples (murids) to put their affairs in the hands of God and he encouraged them to accept sincerely the pure doctrine of the Oneness of God (tawhid). This doctrine consisted of five essentials: to keep the obligations according to the Qur'an and Sunnah, to always speak the truth, to keep the heart free from hatred, to avoid forbidden food and to shun innovations (bida'a). One of his sayings was, "I have come to know God through God, and I knew what is other than God with the light of God." He said, "God has granted his servants favours to come to Him. Instead, they are fascinated with the favours and are drifting further from Him." And he said, praying to God, "O God You have created this creation without its knowledge. You have placed on it a trust without its will. If You don't help it who will?" Bayazid said the ultimate goal of the Sufi is to experience the vision of God in the Hereafter. To that effect he said, "There are special servants of God who, if God veiled Himself from their sight in Paradise, would implore Him to take them out of Paradise just as the inhabitants of the fire implore Him to release them from Hell." About God's love to His servant he said, "If God loves His servant He will grant three attributes that are the proofs of His Love: generosity like the generosity of the ocean, favor like the favor of the sun in its giving of light, and modesty like the modesty of the earth. The true lover never considers any affliction too great and never decreases his worship because of his pure faith." A man asked Bayazid, "show me a deed by which I will approach my Lord." He said, "love the Friends of God in order that they will love you. Love his saints until they love you. Because God looks at the hearts of His saints and He sees your name engraved in the hearts of His saints and He will forgive you." For this reason, the Naqshbandi followers have been elevated by their love of their shaykhs. This love lifts them to a station of continuous pleasure and continuous in the heart of their beloved. [to be continued...] ______________________________________________________________________ Naqshbandi-Haqqani Foundation URL: http://www.best.com/~informe/mateen/haqqani.html [in 7 languages] From tariqas-approval Tue Sep 5 20:06:03 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA01542; Wed, 6 Sep 1995 00:06:07 -0400 Received: from mail04.mail.aol.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA01529; Wed, 6 Sep 1995 00:06:05 -0400 Received: by mail04.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id AAA26601 for tariqas@world.std.com; Wed, 6 Sep 1995 00:06:03 -0400 Date: Wed, 6 Sep 1995 00:06:03 -0400 From: Abdlqadir@aol.com Message-Id: <950906000519_92122416@mail04.mail.aol.com> To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: the AbdKabir Controversy Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: all thanks is due to Allah. But thanks, anyway. wa-salaam From tariqas-approval Wed Sep 6 02:16:11 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA22007; Wed, 6 Sep 1995 07:16:24 -0400 Received: from ccmail.sunysb.edu by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA21998; Wed, 6 Sep 1995 07:16:22 -0400 Received: from ccmail.sunysb.edu by ccmail.sunysb.edu (PMDF V5.0-3 #8051) id <01HUY49TIH0G95SC00@ccmail.sunysb.edu> for tariqas@world.std.com; Wed, 06 Sep 1995 07:16:11 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 06 Sep 1995 07:16:11 -0500 (EST) From: GHADDAD@ccmail.sunysb.edu Subject: [3] What are angels? To: tariqas@world.std.com Message-Id: <01HUY49TN5LU95SC00@ccmail.sunysb.edu> X-Vms-To: in%"tariqas@world.std.com" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: State University of New York at Stony Brook Stony Brook, NY G. Fouad Haddad 06-Sep-1995 07:12am EDT FROM: GHADDAD TO: Remote Addressee ( _tariqas@world.std.com ) Subject: [3] What are angels? [3] WHAT ARE ANGELS ? (Continued) ================================= Excerpted from Shaykh Hisham Kabbani's <> (Introduction): Angels inhabit the seven moving planets, the polestar, and all the fixed stars of every other galaxy. Orbits are like their bodies whose hearts are the planets. The movements of these planets in their orbits is the principle of the changes on this planet earth. The movements of angels in this universe have an influence on the states of human beings on this earth. From the movements of these angels, by God's order, the connection is made between the movements of galaxies. The transmission of signals even millions of light-years away from us affect the states of human nature. The heavenly world thus always holds sway over the earthly world. Everything is created in hierarchies and everything is connected to what is above it. Human beings always look up, not down. The desire for betterment is built into them at both the material and the spiritual levels. Everything in creation always looks up to that model. The principle of the heavenly influences is founded upon this: the effect of the upward on the downward and the aspiration of the downward to the upward. God created the sun from the angelic light. It allows this world to see everything of the material objects that were previously wrapped in darkness. Without that light of the sun nothing can be seen. The result of the creation of light is the formation of day and night. Yet the sun is always shining day and night and its light never extinguished. Because the earth turns on its axis the changes are felt between the two states. The earth makes the sunlight appear to be extinguished. Similarly, angelic power always shines upon the earth. But the revolution of human beings around their desires create a day and a night in their heart: one side shines and the other is in darkness. Since the moon has no light of its own, it takes its light from the sun. The latter always shines and reflects on the moon like a mirror so that it appears like a shining body. In the same way human beings, though they are inscribed by an angelic power, darken themselves through the oppression of their ego. Nevertheless, they are in a position to be always shining, and shining far more radiantly than the moon. The moon possesses nothing of the light of the sun by itself; it only reflects at best. The main power belongs to the sun. Similarly, God has placed and organized in every orbit of the heavens, skies, galaxies, planets, and Paradises a creation differing from one orbit to another. They act like mirrors that reflect the light of the angels from the divine presence. These celestial phenomena extend that angelic light, mirror-like, for the benefit of human beings and other creations. That light is made subject (musakhkhara) to whatever is needed by creation. That light is the source of the angelic power, the very angelic power itself. Indeed, it is the substance of goodness and benefits every place of creation. End of the continued excerpt from the Introduction to <> By Shaykh Hisham Kabbani, KAZI Publications, Chicago. Blessings and Peace on the Prophet, his Family, and his Companions. Fouad Haddad Naqshbandi-Haqqani Foundation From tariqas-approval Tue Sep 5 11:30:26 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA24017; Wed, 6 Sep 1995 07:22:34 -0400 Received: from mail06.mail.aol.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA24002; Wed, 6 Sep 1995 07:22:32 -0400 Received: by mail06.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id PAA00607 for tariqas@world.std.com; Tue, 5 Sep 1995 15:30:26 -0400 Date: Tue, 5 Sep 1995 15:30:26 -0400 From: Abdlqadir@aol.com Message-Id: <950905152838_11504970@mail06.mail.aol.com> To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: Revise Sufism (Addendum) Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: On 09/05/95 Caravan Your statements about "intolerant authorities" of "true Islam and > Sufism" are "disquieting" unless your humor is intentional, because > such a list of statements is itself authoritarian and Sufism- > defining. I did not intend for this statement to be humurous. My dictionary defines "intolerance" as "the inability to withstand, endure, or consume." In addition, my remarks are directed to people who first define themselves as representatives of traditional turuq and then sweepingly condemn other Sufis and scholars of Sufism as "pseudo." This, literally conveys "intolerance" as defined above. In addition, the term "pseudo" means "inauthenticity, sham, deceptive similarity." The word "pseudo-sufi" may, therefore, be accurately judged to be a jingoistic expression which is quite simply a slur, off-handedly used to de-legitimitize another's character and aspirations. In addition, to call attention to the primary criteria defining Sufism is cannot be accurately described as "authoritarian." Quite simply, Classical Sufism (and the Sunnah) prohibit slander by assertion or by implication. If one wishes to adhere to a "truer" Sufism and Islam then the use of terms such as "pseudo-sufi" can be challenged as incongruent. My intention in doing so is not to define the one and only "True" Islam or Sufism, or to claim authority for myself, but to raise questions which I feel to be relevant to defining a broader approach to Sufism which takes account of its historical differences *and similarities*. > A "deeper knowledge of Sufism's actual history and theosophical > structuring" shows us Sufism is self-defining, by its own broad > historical trends. Pseudo-Sufism is an appropriate label by your own > definitions for those who lack the realization or attainment implied > by such a term, and for those who are ignorant of the basic teachings > and practices (and basis for such) of this path. If one wants to question a form or expression Sufism as adequate vis-a-vis the Classical criteria defining such activity, one may do so through respectful and well-reasoned argurment. It is common Western (and Islamic) adab *not* to do so through "ad hominum" arguements which employ simple character asassination. In my opinion, this forum is filled with rancour and hostility, both of which slight Sufism in action. To suggest, for example, that Pir Vilayat (to whom this term was applied by another) "lack(s) realization or attainment" or is "ignorant of the basic teachings and practices of this path," is arguable, to say the least. It is also an attack on his character and the sincertiy of his aspiration. This I feel is *basically* incompatable with both the traditional teachings and practice of all Sufi's who adhere to the aklaq-i-Nabi ("manners of the Prophet(s)"). > That a few aturuq occasionally admit non-Muslims does not amount to > a significant trend when compared to the overwhelming pattern of 14+ > centuries of aturuq insisting upon some observation of shariah > worldwide. A handful of non-profit tax-exempt societies and > publishing companies which bow to Western anti-Muslim sentiments do > not amount to a major trend in Sufism either. Most of the very few > aturuq which admit non-Muslims do so as a conversion strategy. "Some observation of shariah" is the point. I wished to point-out that the shariah of Islam has been interpreted and practiced differently according to time and place -- something which seems to be lost in these discussions. To equate (as you seem to do) "a handful of non-profit societies and publishing companies" with "anti-muslim sentiments" is terribly reductionistic. Do you mean to imply that *all* such organizations, if they are not specifically "muslim" are patently anti-Islamic? In addition, I do not find evidence supporting your conclusion that "the very few aturuq which admit non-muslims do so as a conversion strategy." I would agree that many aturuq do so, but not *all* "Islamic" turuq view themselves as having a missionary intent. > One of the kinds of fana that is hardly mentioned in the West > anymore, probably because it is so unpalatable to those who insist > upon their ego while maintaining a posture of spirituality, is fana > fi-tariqa, effacement in the teachings and practices of one's > silsila. While I would agree that "effacement" is an important practice, the object of that effacement is not always a "tariqa." For example, certain turuq exlude the practice of "effacement in the shaykh," and insist, instead, upon effacement in the Pir (the original founder of the Order) and effacement in Rasulillah,etc. Variations in emphasis and interpretation abound. Because someone calls into question the validity of certain procedures does not necessarily mean that they are "insist(ing) upon their ego while maintaining a posture of spirituality." This, like the use of the term "pseudo-sufi," is an ad hominum form of impugning the character and intentions of one's (percieved) opponents . > It has been pointed out on tariqas that "Sufism" is misused by > uninformed Westerners to apply to generic spirituality, and as a lump- > it-all-together term for several major mystical trends of Islamic > spirituality (including jawanmardi, futuwwa, Isma'ili gnosis, Imami > gnosis, qalandari, ayyari, malamati, etc). In recent years, we've all > seen some downright weird stuff perpetrated as Sufism, including > dances to pagan entities, equation of African nature spirits with > Asma al-Husna, rejection of the Prophets, and other outright nonsense. While I agree that "Sufism" is often used as a term to apply to "generic spirituality," I do not agree (as you seem to imply) that "futuwwa," "qalandari," and "malamati" "mystical trends are not authentic Sufism. Would you exlude Abu Khayr, Al-Sulami, Fakruddin Iraqi, and Ibn al-Arabi (QS) from Sufism because they apply such terms to themselves or to their activities? Or is there only one type of Sufism ("orthopractic" or "Sunni") which you are claiming as authentic. Please clarify. As for "dances to pagan entities," and "rejection of the Prophets," etc, of course, I would agree that these activities cannot be equated with Sufism. Asalumu Alaykum From tariqas-approval Wed Sep 6 02:48:01 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA15533; Wed, 6 Sep 1995 12:56:17 -0400 Received: from halon.sybase.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA15505; Wed, 6 Sep 1995 12:56:14 -0400 Received: from sybase.com (sybgate.sybase.com) by halon.sybase.com (5.x/SMI-SVR4/SybFW4.0) id AA13016; Wed, 6 Sep 1995 09:55:37 -0700 Received: from serii.sybase.com ([158.159.40.63]) by sybase.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/SybH3.4) id AA28233; Wed, 6 Sep 95 09:57:44 PDT Received: by serii.sybase.com (4.1/SMI-4.1/SybEC3.2) id AA23395; Wed, 6 Sep 95 09:48:01 PDT Date: Wed, 6 Sep 95 09:48:01 PDT From: mateens@sybase.com (Mateen Siddiqui) Message-Id: <9509061648.AA23395@serii.sybase.com> To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: [3] What are angels? Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: > Angels inhabit the seven moving planets... Should be nine moving planets (or eight not including earth). From tariqas-approval Wed Sep 6 07:37:01 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA21455; Wed, 6 Sep 1995 17:37:23 -0400 Received: from cnmat.CNMAT.Berkeley.EDU by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA21420; Wed, 6 Sep 1995 17:37:18 -0400 Received: from chowning.Berkeley.EDU (chowning.CNMAT.Berkeley.EDU) by cnmat.CNMAT.Berkeley.EDU (4.1/1.42) id AA07206; Wed, 6 Sep 95 14:37:14 PDT Message-Id: <9509062137.AA07206@cnmat.CNMAT.Berkeley.EDU> Received: by chowning.Berkeley.EDU (NeXT-1.0 (From Sendmail 5.52)/NeXT-2.0) id AA00341; Wed, 6 Sep 95 14:37:01 PDT Date: Wed, 6 Sep 95 14:37:01 PDT From: tvr@cnmat.CNMAT.Berkeley.EDU To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Bye for now? Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: A Dear friends: I am afraid i'm going to have to drop off of this list without really having contributed much... I guess i was hopeful at first, especially to see/hear familiar names and explore the path to the Divine, which i perceive as both an individual and a collective thing. Alas, i no longer have the bandwidth available for this, and i tire of seemingly endless disputations. Most of us do zikr, fikr or some related practices on a regular basis (in'sh'Allah). Perhaps one of our tasks is to seek the meaning and experience of that for ourselves. As i came out of doing zikr recently, i ended up with a question i will share with you briefly: If Nothing exists except The One, and we truly realize that, does it really matter that much which Names and practices are used to attain that unity? I won't just fire this off and depart immediately, but i will have to unsubscribe soon. I will miss hearing from many of you. I continue to read the newsgroups 'alt.sufi', etc., and hope some of you will contribute to there as well. Many blessings to you all! And with you be Peace -- Tovar From tariqas-approval Wed Sep 6 14:48:59 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA15891; Wed, 6 Sep 1995 19:49:50 -0400 Received: from ccmail.sunysb.edu by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA15792; Wed, 6 Sep 1995 19:49:41 -0400 Received: from ccmail.sunysb.edu by ccmail.sunysb.edu (PMDF V5.0-3 #8051) id <01HUYUK68AWW9I447R@ccmail.sunysb.edu> for tariqas@world.std.com; Wed, 06 Sep 1995 19:48:59 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 06 Sep 1995 19:48:59 -0500 (EST) From: GHADDAD@ccmail.sunysb.edu Subject: Re: [3] What are angels? To: tariqas@world.std.com Message-Id: <01HUYUK68EOI9I447R@ccmail.sunysb.edu> X-Vms-To: in%"tariqas@world.std.com" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: State University of New York at Stony Brook Stony Brook, NY G. Fouad Haddad 06-Sep-1995 07:44pm EDT FROM: GHADDAD TO: Remote Addressee ( _tariqas@world.std.com ) Subject: re: [3] What are angels? Mateen@sybase.com wrote: >> Angels inhabit the seven moving planets... > Should be nine moving planets (or eight not including earth). Actually seven, corresponding to the seven earths and the seven heavens. God knows best. Blessings and Peace on the Prophet Fouad Haddad Naqshbandi-Haqqani Foundation From tariqas-approval Wed Sep 6 12:02:28 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA29384; Wed, 6 Sep 1995 22:02:32 -0400 Received: from carson-oms2.u.washington.edu by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA29366; Wed, 6 Sep 1995 22:02:29 -0400 Received: from carson.u.washington.edu by carson-oms2.u.washington.edu (5.65+UW95.08/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id AA21765; Wed, 6 Sep 95 19:02:29 -0700 Date: Wed, 6 Sep 1995 19:02:28 -0700 (PDT) From: "L. Ila" To: tariqasnet Cc: History of Islam Subject: female genital mutilation/Beijing Women's Conference Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: asalaam-u-aleikum For those who are concerned about this issue, particularly as it is misrepresented as an Islamic custom, your input would be welcomed. As this issue is marginal to the focus of this discussion list, you may contact me by private email for details. If I am deluged by replies I will submit a detailed post to the entire list. Lily Kay From tariqas-approval Wed Sep 6 23:11:38 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA17932; Thu, 7 Sep 1995 03:15:45 -0400 Received: from emout04.mail.aol.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA17926; Thu, 7 Sep 1995 03:15:44 -0400 Received: by emout04.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id DAA27679 for tariqas@world.std.com; Thu, 7 Sep 1995 03:11:38 -0400 Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 03:11:38 -0400 From: Abdlqadir@aol.com Message-Id: <950907031137_13035404@emout04.mail.aol.com> To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: female genital mutilation... Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: I am often horrified by certain muslim alims who continue to support this pre-Islamic custom as essentially Islamic. In fact, from the little research I've done, it seems to me that "allowances" were made for this custom to continue under Islamic regimes (and law) in places where it could not have been easily outlawed outright (e.g. Egypt, Sudan, etc.). Unfortunately, because of a literalistic reading of the Sunnah and the madhahib (school of law), the practice has now found legitimation for its continuance in certain Islamic regions. The underlying problem, it seems to me, is that modern hermeneutics have not caught-up with most ulluma, therefore, they continue to apply a faulty method of analogical reasoning to the appliction of fiqh (jurisprudence). References on this include: "Islam and Modernity" by Fazlur Rahman and Fatima Mernissi's "The Veil and the Male Elite. The best traditionalist I have found who is valid Maliki jurist, who would provide justifications for eliminating this practice is an American who studied in the Sudan. He currently works as an Imam in the prison system. I can ask his permission to give you his address if you wish. Other alims of fiqh who you might find helpful can be contacted through Warith Deen Muhammad's groups, the so-called "Bilalians." Wish you the best in this endevor. Peace. . From tariqas-approval Thu Sep 7 08:20:19 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA17934; Thu, 7 Sep 1995 13:21:05 -0400 Received: from ccmail.sunysb.edu by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA17848; Thu, 7 Sep 1995 13:20:59 -0400 Received: from ccmail.sunysb.edu by ccmail.sunysb.edu (PMDF V5.0-3 #8051) id <01HUZV9NB8Q89I497L@ccmail.sunysb.edu> for tariqas@world.std.com; Thu, 07 Sep 1995 13:20:19 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 07 Sep 1995 13:20:19 -0500 (EST) From: GHADDAD@ccmail.sunysb.edu Subject: Pre-eminence in tariqas To: tariqas@world.std.com Message-Id: <01HUZV9NDP9U9I497L@ccmail.sunysb.edu> X-Vms-To: in%"tariqas@world.std.com" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: A State University of New York at Stony Brook Stony Brook, NY G. Fouad Haddad 07-Sep-1995 12:45pm EDT FROM: GHADDAD TO: Remote Addressee ( _tariqas@world.std.com ) Subject: Pre-eminence in tariqas PRE-EMINENCE IN TARIQAS ======================= "Abu Nu`aym relates in the <> on the authority of Abu Yazid al-Bistami that when the latter was told: You are among the seven Substitutes (abdal) who are the Pillars (awtad) of the earth, he replied: I am all seven." Suyuti <> (Beirut ed.) 2:471. The idea of pre-eminence in tariqa is the same as in religion and life in general. Besides differences, there are ranks and hierarchies among human beings and this does not detract from the fact that all are created equally according to God's perfect justice and wisdom. God said: <> and <> and <>. To recognize that all tariqas and all shaykhs are true is a step towards the truth and an excellent thing, as all tariqas have the same exalted goal and highly similar ways to reach it. At the same time each tariqa by definition stakes an exclusive claim of excellence in achieving that goal. The ways to God are infinite, yet some ways are undeniably faster and shorter than others. This is true among religions, it is true among shaykhs, and it is true among tariqas. It is known that among the saints there is a hierarchy which is visible to them but invisible to the rest of mankind. We believe in its existence according to God's principles of creation in hierarchies and according to the reliable testimonies to that effect of the Prophet (s), the scholars, and the saints themselves. The pre-eminence of this saint over that saint is not the result of the saint's cleverness but rather is by appointment in the spiritual world. The directive of those who respect that appointment is not based on blind admiration but on a desire to <> and <> with regard to spiritual people, according to the Prophet's instruction, <>. That there exists false claims at all times little detracts from the truth of these realities and from the oligation to fulfill the orders pertaining to them. Many people go against the concept of the election of saints as God's Friends [awliya]. Of those who accept it yet many find it intolerable that a certain saint should possess or express superiority to other saints. If you ask such people about the pre-eminence of certain prophets over others they might well deny that also. It is not surprizing, therefore, that they shoud deny the election of one religion over another or one tariqa over another. Those who truly accept awliya also accept the fact that the saints stand in ranks before God similarly to the angels and above them, and that these ranks are innumerable in the variety and subtlety of their respective excellence. Angels do not grudge the archangels their pre-eminence, and <> are not jealous of <>. Similarly among the saints, there are those of ordinary rank and those of extraordinary rank, and those yet above the latter, and all are busy worshipping God according to the role and function they were created to play in His universe. There is no partisanship and no jealousy among them, although the abdal (Substitutes) are lower than the aqtab (Poles), who are lower than the ghawth (Arch-intercessor), who is lower than the khatm al-awliya (Seal of saints), who is lower than the sultan al-awliya (Power of saints), and everything is by appointment of the Prophet (s) and under his authority. Another way of explaining this is through the example of the Companions of the Prophet (s), who were all of high rank although some are brought nearer than others, and the nearest is Abu Bakr. This nearness is the secret of the Naqshbandi Sufi Way, which is the only path that traces its lineage back to Abu Bakr. Abu Yazid is the fourth shaykh following him in the chain of transmission. Mawlana Shaykh Nazim al-Haqqani is the fortieth, and his khalifa (successor) is Shaykh Hisham Kabbani. Blessings and Peace on the Prophet (s), his Family, and his Companions. Fouad Haddad Naqshbandi-Haqqani Foundation From tariqas-approval Thu Sep 7 05:00:02 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA22684; Thu, 7 Sep 1995 15:00:58 -0400 Received: from desiree.teleport.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA22593; Thu, 7 Sep 1995 15:00:54 -0400 Received: from kelly.teleport.com (bergner@kelly.teleport.com [192.108.254.10]) by desiree.teleport.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA27576 for ; Thu, 7 Sep 1995 12:00:23 -0700 From: Paul Bergner Message-Id: <199509071900.MAA27576@desiree.teleport.com> Subject: Re: Pre-eminence in tariqas To: tariqas@world.std.com Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 12:00:02 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <01HUZV9NDP9U9I497L@ccmail.sunysb.edu> from "GHADDAD@ccmail.sunysb.edu" at Sep 7, 95 01:20:19 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24beta] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 163 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Asalaamu alaikum. Inshallah we can thank brother Ghaddad for an opportunity to practice impeccible adab and to examine the reactions of our nafs. Peace Mustafa From tariqas-approval Thu Sep 7 12:25:22 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA06802; Thu, 7 Sep 1995 19:37:03 -0400 Received: from everest.cclabs.missouri.edu by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA06783; Thu, 7 Sep 1995 19:37:01 -0400 Received: from mugcnx8 (mugcnx8.gclab.missouri.edu [128.206.48.18]) by everest.cclabs.missouri.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id SAA24828 for ; Thu, 7 Sep 1995 18:36:59 -0500 From: Omar Qureshi Message-Id: <199509072336.SAA24828@everest.cclabs.missouri.edu> Received: by mugcnx8 (NX5.67e/NX3.0X) id AA01530; Thu, 7 Sep 95 17:25:22 -0500 Date: Thu, 7 Sep 95 17:25:22 -0500 Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.100) Received: by NeXT Mailer (1.100) To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: [3] What are angels? Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Asalam u alaykum, I thank Br. Haddad for the interesting posts on Angels. It certainly presents a new view. Just one suggestion, it would be nice to have a post from Shaykh Hisham;s book that is a bit more practical; something that we can practice in our lives. Just a suggestion. Thanx Salam. From tariqas-approval Fri Sep 8 01:11:57 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA27459; Fri, 8 Sep 1995 00:12:59 -0400 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA27445; Fri, 8 Sep 1995 00:12:57 -0400 Date: Fri, 8 Sep 1995 00:12:57 +0059 (EDT) From: Steve H Rose Subject: Any tariqas members in Denver? To: tariqas@world.std.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Assalamu alaikum. I am going to be in Denver this Sunday through Thursday, and am wondering, if, Insh'Allah, there are any tariqas members (or friends) in Denver. Thanks! Yours, habib rose From tariqas-approval Fri Sep 8 02:04:28 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA26764; Fri, 8 Sep 1995 01:05:29 -0400 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA26751; Fri, 8 Sep 1995 01:05:28 -0400 Date: Fri, 8 Sep 1995 01:05:28 +0059 (EDT) From: Steve H Rose Subject: Re: Pre-eminence in tariqas To: tariqas@world.std.com In-Reply-To: <01HUZV9NDP9U9I497L@ccmail.sunysb.edu> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Assalamu alaikum. On Thu, 7 Sep 1995 GHADDAD@ccmail.sunysb.edu wrote: > To recognize that all tariqas and all shaykhs are true is a step > towards the truth and an excellent thing, as all tariqas have the same > exalted goal and highly similar ways to reach it. At the same time each > tariqa by definition stakes an exclusive claim of excellence in achieving > that goal. The ways to God are infinite, yet some ways are undeniably > faster and shorter than others. This is true among religions, it is true > among shaykhs, and it is true among tariqas. I agree that some ways are faster and shorter than others -- for those people for whom they are right. However, I have no evidence that any one way is in all cases faster and shorter than others for EVERYBODY. Let me give an analogy based on climbing a mountain. There are a number of trails up the mountain. Some of them may be straighter than others. But is the straightest trail necessarily the fastest? It may be so steep that only certain people (atheletes perhaps) can climb it without getting too tired to continue. There is an expression, "slow and steady wins the race." Sometimes that is true, sometimes it isn't. For short distances, the faster you go, the better. But, for longer races, stamina becomes more important. Furthermore, have you ever been on a mountain trail that actually went straight up all the way to the top of the mountain? I have never seen such a thing. In my experience, trails ALWAYS curve around TO FIT THE TERRAIN. So, the straightest path up a mountain invariably would mean getting OFF of the trail to take "short-cuts." Is that a good idea? It all depends. If the most direct route leads through bramble bushes or poison ivy, perhaps you will get there quicker (and certainly happier :-) by following the trail. If the most direct route involves climbing rocks, perhaps it will be quickest -- if you know how to climb rocks, have the correct equipment etc. Otherwise, stick to the trail. Some trails have proven themselves effective to millions of people (for example, Islam and Buddhism). These trails tend to offer a balanced set of qualities -- leading up the mountain without wandering TOO much, but are also safe etc. That means they will work for a lot of people. There may be quicker routes, which are less safe, which only a few people will have the correct temperament to survive. Some trails may appear to be shortcuts, but may lead only to falling off the edge of dangerous cliffs. Other trails may be actual shortcuts. Some trails may be less direct, but offer better scenery. Other trails may only lead in circles, and not get anywhere. The fact that a lot of other people have walked on the same trail MAY be an indication that it is a good trail (but it also may mean that it is just an easy one ;-). So, it all depends on who you are, what your capabilities are, and what your goals are. Insh'Allah, the best we may be able to predict is how effective a trail may be for any specific individual. As far as I know, it is absurd to say that one trail is best for everybody. Yours, habib rose From tariqas-approval Thu Sep 7 21:30:53 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA04789; Fri, 8 Sep 1995 01:30:56 -0400 Received: from mail02.mail.aol.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA04779; Fri, 8 Sep 1995 01:30:54 -0400 Received: by mail02.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id BAA00328 for tariqas@world.std.com; Fri, 8 Sep 1995 01:30:53 -0400 Date: Fri, 8 Sep 1995 01:30:53 -0400 From: ASHA101@aol.com Message-Id: <950908004843_94073927@mail02.mail.aol.com> To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: Pre-eminence in tariqas Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Dear Faoud; Could you tell me what is the point of your last posting? I understand that it is an exposition but what is the theme and what is your purpose? I must admit that I found the rhetoric rather odd, was this a translation? Do you think that you could put your thoughts in your own words, I personally would find that much more appealing. Although expressing one's personal thoughts is difficult and risky, it is what I most tune into this forum to hear. love, Asha From tariqas-approval Thu Sep 7 22:50:01 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA24121; Fri, 8 Sep 1995 02:54:08 -0400 Received: from emout04.mail.aol.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA24114; Fri, 8 Sep 1995 02:54:07 -0400 Received: by emout04.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id CAA20335 for tariqas@world.std.com; Fri, 8 Sep 1995 02:50:01 -0400 Date: Fri, 8 Sep 1995 02:50:01 -0400 From: Abdlqadir@aol.com Message-Id: <950908025000_13936855@emout04.mail.aol.com> To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: Ghaddad Posting 08/07/95 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: On Thu, 7 Sep 1995 GHADDAD@ccmail.sunysb.edu wrote: > To recognize that all tariqas and all shaykhs are true is a step > towards the truth and an excellent thing, as all tariqas have the > same exalted goal and highly similar ways to reach it. At the > same time each tariqa by definition stakes an exclusive claim of > excellence in achieving that goal. The ways to God are infinite, yet > some ways are undeniably faster and shorter than others. This is > true among religions, it is true among shaykhs, and it is true > among tariqas. It is by no means universally true that all turuq "by definition stak(e) an exclusive claim of excellence." In fact, at least in addressing other turuq, shaykhs, and their muridin, it is common courtesy NOT to claim such exclusivity. Among all the shuyuk I have heard in suhbat it is more commonly accepted to acknowledge that each path is suited to a different "temprement" (mashrab), and that all legitimate turuq lead back through Rasulillah to Allah (swt). In fact, among many shuyuk a potential murid is considered to belong to a partiular Pir and tariqa by spiritual predestination. If this were not so, why would we be advised by Qur'an al-Karim: "To each among you have We prescribed a Law and an Open Way. And if God had enforced His will, He would have made of you all one people. But His plan is to test you in what He hath given you" [V;51]. One might deduce from this passage that is is Allah (alone) who "prescribes" a Path for each of us. In the same spirit, one cannot generalize that any one Path is "undeniably faster and shorter," at least not for ALL people at ALL times. If this were so why would we be told by the Prophet(s): "There are as many Ways to God as there are created souls"? And why would the Qur'anic passage quoted above say -- if I may paraphrase -- that God did not want to "enforce His will" to make us all one people, following one path? The same ayat (above) continues....."so strive as in a race to perfect all virtues." It seems clear from this ayat that the "fastest, shortest" way consists in the striving "to perfect all virtues," and not in a monolithic, singular super-tariqa that is "undeniably" the best for all. Certainly a particular murid may *believe* that the tariqa chosen for him or her is the "best." And certainly muridin are given to such assertions among themselves. Nevertheless, it seems that many *official* members of the Haqqani Trust are prone to asserting publically that *their way* is the *only* authentic Way. Unfortunately such fervor seems to exceed the respect normally due to the Pirs, shuyuk, and muridin of countless other turuq which are not part of the Haqqani-Naqshbandiyya. Moreover is seems somewhat disingenuous to state, on the one hand, that recognizing "that all tariqas and all shaykhs are true is a step towards the truth and an excellent thing." while stating, as Mr. Ghaddad did (on 08/22/95) that: "...the Naqshbandhi Sufi Way...is the only pure and true representative of Islam and the Way of the Prophet(s) in our time." The inference which we may derive from juxtaposing such statements is that it is "a step towards the truth" to follow another tariqa *as long as* we eventually realize* that the "only *true* representative of Islam and Sufism is the Naqshbandhi Way as represented by Shaykh Nazim and Shaykh Hisham. If this is a correct reading of Mr. Ghaddad's postings to us, then why doesn't he just come-out directly and say what he implies? If this is an incorrect reading, then why doesn't Mr. Gaddad correct his earlier posting so that we can better understand what he DOES mean to say? Forgive me if I suggest that all of this seems rather labored and circuitous. Clarity and straightforwardness would be greatly appreciated. Asalamu Alaykum From tariqas-approval Thu Sep 7 18:25:09 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA10218; Fri, 8 Sep 1995 04:25:15 -0400 Received: from blob.best.net by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA10205; Fri, 8 Sep 1995 04:25:13 -0400 Received: from [204.156.129.34] (informe.vip.best.com [204.156.129.34]) by blob.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id BAA08536 for ; Fri, 8 Sep 1995 01:25:09 -0700 Date: Fri, 8 Sep 1995 01:25:09 -0700 From: informe@best.com Message-Id: <199509080825.BAA08536@blob.best.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: Pre-eminence in tariqas Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: As-salaam alaikum, > Although expressing one's personal thoughts is >difficult and risky, it is what I most tune into this forum to hear. > love, Asha When I see disagreement here, I feel like a three or four year old watching his older brothers argue about what instructions Father left for us, how the others are helping or interfering with His wishes, and so on. I get a despairing, panicky feeling that perhaps Father will be so disgusted that He won't come back for us at all, or that there is no such thing as a Family. I have no brothers or sisters and I abandoned my own earthly parents; perhaps all this talk is equally unreal. My faith is a leaky boat, my reason a sieve to bail it, and need my only oar. Hamza From tariqas-approval Fri Sep 8 05:48:00 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA27573; Fri, 8 Sep 1995 12:02:23 -0400 Received: from gatekeeper.mcimail.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA27508; Fri, 8 Sep 1995 12:02:18 -0400 Received: from mailgate.mcimail.com (mailgate.mcimail.com [166.38.40.3]) by gatekeeper.mcimail.com (8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id QAA06189; Fri, 8 Sep 1995 16:00:24 GMT Received: from mcimail.com by mailgate.mcimail.com id ae17527; 8 Sep 95 16:00 WET Date: Fri, 8 Sep 95 10:48 EST From: Mike Moore <0007106488@mcimail.com> To: tariqas Subject: Re: Pre-eminence in tariqas Message-Id: <75950908154857/0007106488PJ3EM@MCIMAIL.COM> Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: A All this talk of paths, and going straight, and getting there fast, ph < deep breath > phewwww, sounds like a lot of hard work! I think I'll just sit here and look at the pretty flowers. -Michael- From tariqas-approval Fri Sep 8 13:12:31 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA05587; Fri, 8 Sep 1995 12:13:34 -0400 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA05550; Fri, 8 Sep 1995 12:13:31 -0400 Date: Fri, 8 Sep 1995 12:13:31 +0059 (EDT) From: Steve H Rose Subject: Re: Pre-eminence in tariqas To: tariqas@world.std.com In-Reply-To: <75950908154857/0007106488PJ3EM@MCIMAIL.COM> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Assalamu alaikum. On Fri, 8 Sep 1995, Mike Moore wrote: > All this talk of paths, and going straight, and getting there fast, ph > < deep breath > phewwww, sounds like a lot of hard work! > I think I'll just sit here and look at the pretty flowers. > -Michael- > Those of us who are obsessively goal-oriented (in my case a sickness) may think that the only point of being on a mountain road is to get to the top. Thanks greatly, Michael, for your gentle reminder that, at least for some of us, the experience of the journey is what's important. Yours, habib rose From tariqas-approval Fri Sep 8 07:44:46 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA03913; Fri, 8 Sep 1995 12:45:26 -0400 Received: from ccmail.sunysb.edu by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA03881; Fri, 8 Sep 1995 12:45:24 -0400 Received: from ccmail.sunysb.edu by ccmail.sunysb.edu (PMDF V5.0-3 #8051) id <01HV18BW4IPC9I4H1K@ccmail.sunysb.edu> for tariqas@world.std.com; Fri, 08 Sep 1995 12:44:46 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 08 Sep 1995 12:44:46 -0500 (EST) From: GHADDAD@ccmail.sunysb.edu Subject: Recent Chittick article To: tariqas@world.std.com Message-Id: <01HV18BWB6VM9I4H1K@ccmail.sunysb.edu> X-Vms-To: in%"tariqas@world.std.com" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: State University of New York at Stony Brook Stony Brook, NY G. Fouad Haddad 08-Sep-1995 12:40pm EDT FROM: GHADDAD TO: Remote Addressee ( _tariqas@world.std.com ) Subject: Recent Chittick article SUFISM IN THE WEST ================= This is the closing part of William Chittick's article on "Sufi Thought and Practice," the fist of four entries (the other three are signed by other authors) under the rubric <> in the recently-published <>, 4 vols., ed. John L. Esposito and others,New York and Oxford: Oxford University Press, 1995. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Parallel to the resurgence of Sufism in the Islamic world has been the spread of Sufi teachings to the West. In America, drunken Sufism was introduced in the early part of this century by the Chisti shaykh and musician Inayat Khan (<>, Tucson, 1988); his teachings have been continued by his son, Pir Vlayet Inayat Khan, a frequent lecturer on the New Age circuit. In Europe, sober sufism gained a wide audience among intellectuals through the writings of the French metaphysician Rene' Gue'non, who died in Cairo in 1951 (<>, London, 1958). More recently hundreds of volumes have been publihed in Western languages that are addressed to Sufi seekers and reflect the range of perspectives found in the original texts, from sobriety to intoxication. Many of these works are written by authentic representatives of Sufi silsilahs [chains of transmission], but many more are written by people who have adopted Sufism to justify teachings of questionable origin, or who have left the safeguards of right practice and right thought -- islam and iman [submission and belief] -- and hence have no access to the ihsan [excellence] that is built upon the two. Contemporary representatives of sober Sufism emphasize knowledge, discernment, and differentiation and usually stress the importance of the shari`ah. Best known in this group is Frithjof Schuon (<>, London, 1976), who makes no explicit claims in his books to Sufi affiliations but, as reviewers have often remarked, writes with an air of spiritual authority. He is said to be a member of the Shadhiliyah-`Alawiyah order of North Africa (G.C. Anwati and L. Gardet, <>, Paris, 1968, p. 72). He takes an extreme position on the importance of discernment and offers a rigorous criticism of the roots of modern antireligion. The main thrust of his writings seems to be to offer a theory of world religions based on the idea of a universal esoterism, the Islamic form of which is Sufism. He frequently asserts the necessity for esoterists of all religions to observe the exoteric teachings of their traditions, this being the shari`ah in the case of Islam. Titus Burckhardt (<>, Cambridge, England, 1975) represents a similar perspective, but his works are more explicitly grounded in traditional Sufi teachings. Martin Lings (<> Berkeley, 1975), who has also published under the name Abu Bakr Siraj ed-Din (<> London, 1952), presents a picture of Sufism that is intellectually rigorous but firmly grounded in explicit Islamic teachings. The noted Iranian scholar Seyyed Hossein Nasr (<>, London, 1972) also stresses intellectual discernment more than love, and he repeatedly insists that there is no Sufism without the shari`ah. The books of the Turkish Cerrahi leader Muzaffer Ozak (<>, New York, 1982) present shari`ah-oriented Sufism that is much more focused on love than on intellectual discernment. The Naqshbandi master Nazim al- Qubrusi (<>, London, 1983) offers a warm presentation of desirable human qualities, again rooted in a perspective that stresses love and often discusses the shariatic basis of Sufism. The Iranian Ni`matullahi leader Javad Nurbakhsh (<>, vols. 1-5, London, 1984-1991) has published several anthologies of classic Sufi texts; his own perspective falls on the side of intoxication, with emphasis on oneness of being and union with God. He pays little attention to the shari`ah, but he discusses the importance of Sufi communal activities such as sessions of dhikr. Even more to the side of love and intoxication are the works of Guru Bawa Muhaiyaddeen (<>, Philadelphia, 1982), who presents a synthesis of Sufism and Hindu teachings that is recognizably Islamic only in its terminology. End of excerpt from William Chittick's recent article on sufism. Blessings and Peace on the Prophet, his Family, and his Companions. Fouad Haddad Naqshbandi-Haqqani Foundation From tariqas-approval Fri Sep 8 13:13:44 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA28378; Fri, 8 Sep 1995 13:13:44 -0400 Date: Fri, 8 Sep 1995 13:13:44 -0400 Message-Id: <199509081713.AA28378@world.std.com> To: tariqas-approval@world.std.com From: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Subject: BOUNCE tariqas@world.std.com: Non-member submission from [mmoore@antares.Tymnet.COM (Michael J. Moore)] Status: RO X-Status: >From mmoore@antares.Tymnet.COM Fri Sep 8 03:15:02 1995 Return-Path: Received: from tymix.tymnet.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA28345; Fri, 8 Sep 1995 13:13:42 -0400 Received: by tymix.Tymnet.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA05255; Fri, 8 Sep 95 10:13:45 PDT Received: from antares by tymix.Tymnet.COM (in.smtpd); 8 Sep 95 10:13:44 PDT Received: from kirin.Tymnet.COM by antares.Tymnet.COM (8.6.5/UCB) id KAA13628; Fri, 8 Sep 1995 10:13:39 -0700 Received: by kirin.Tymnet.COM (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA00826; Fri, 8 Sep 1995 10:15:02 -0700 Date: Fri, 8 Sep 1995 10:15:02 -0700 From: mmoore@antares.Tymnet.COM (Michael J. Moore) Message-Id: <9509081715.AA00826@kirin.Tymnet.COM> To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: WANTED! woman for Marrage X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Dear Tariqas members, Please forgive me if this is not the right place for this. I have a friend who is looking to get married. He is a 42 year old, devout Muslem. He has a good job and makes good money. He has never been married. A few times he has had a potential mate but it seems that he has just been unlucky. He is American born but took to Islam early in his life. He took Arabic in College and speaks it fluently. But now he is giving up hope and after talking to his shaykh has decided that he might marry a woman who does not appeal to him. I think that would be a shame. So if you are a Muslem woman who is 'looking' for a good man to meet, please send a note to me and MICHAELJM8@AOL.COM. PS. he is 5' 11" about 175 lbs blond with a beard. Currently his head is shaved as he has JUst been to Hajj. I'm pretty sure he wants children. -Michael- From tariqas-approval Fri Sep 8 10:02:38 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA08475; Fri, 8 Sep 1995 14:02:46 -0400 Received: from mail06.mail.aol.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA08459; Fri, 8 Sep 1995 14:02:45 -0400 Received: by mail06.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA23774 for tariqas@world.std.com; Fri, 8 Sep 1995 14:02:38 -0400 Date: Fri, 8 Sep 1995 14:02:38 -0400 From: ASHA101@aol.com Message-Id: <950908140236_94434365@mail06.mail.aol.com> To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: the pre-eminent master falls (in love) Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: < To: tariqas-approval@world.std.com From: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Subject: BOUNCE tariqas@world.std.com: Non-member submission from [olh@hyperback.com (Bob Olhsson)] Status: RO X-Status: >From olh@hyperback.com Fri Sep 8 09:16:38 1995 Return-Path: Received: from miwok.nbn.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA09140; Fri, 8 Sep 1995 19:18:36 -0400 Received: from [199.4.64.46] (srf-46.nbn.com [199.4.64.46]) by miwok.nbn.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id QAA07439 for ; Fri, 8 Sep 1995 16:18:27 -0700 X-Sender: olh@mail.nbn.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 8 Sep 1995 16:16:38 -0700 To: tariqas@world.std.com From: olh@hyperback.com (Bob Olhsson) Subject: Re: Recent Chittick article > Parallel to the resurgence of Sufism in the Islamic world has been the >spread of Sufi teachings to the West. In America, drunken Sufism was >introduced in the early part of this century by the Chisti shaykh and >musician Inayat Khan (<>, Tucson, 1988); his >teachings have been continued by his son, Pir Vlayet Inayat Khan, a >frequent lecturer on the New Age circuit. In Europe, sober sufism gained >a wide audience among intellectuals through the writings of the French >metaphysician Rene' Gue'non, who died in Cairo in 1951 (<of the Cross>>, London, 1958). More recently hundreds of volumes have >been publihed in Western languages that are addressed to Sufi seekers >and reflect the range of perspectives found in the original texts, from >sobriety >to intoxication. Many of these works are written by authentic representatives >of Sufi silsilahs [chains of transmission], but many more are written by people >who have adopted Sufism to justify teachings of questionable origin, or who >have left the safeguards of right practice and right thought -- islam and iman >[submission and belief] -- and hence have no access to the ihsan [excellence] >that is built upon the two. This sounds to me like a collection of the negative hearsay that floats around among various orders critical of each other. I doubt that there is any individual with sufficient direct experience of the various orders to accurately make such sweeping critical generalizations. Inayat Khan's followers came to Islam and Sufism in a strictly intellectual manner within a culturally hostile enviornment. It seems pretty obvious that his early followers needed non-intellectual experiences of Sufism far more than they needed further self-rightous elite intellectual intoxication or "Orientalism" as it was called. We English-style intellectuals still fall into that trap and are most grateful to receive help. Certainly no one teacher's style is considered remotely appropriate for everybody and this has been emphasised by my teacher and many others in Inayat Khan's lineage. We are taught that every mureed needs instruction and practices appropriate to his/her life. This will logically cross a spectrum from apparant sobriety to apparant intoxication as percieved by those outside the particular relationship. I can assure you that intoxication is not the goal of any teacher I'm familiar with after eighteen years of involvement with SIRS and Sufi Order in the West teachers. Certainly from time to time individuals have gone off the deep end of both fundamentalism and "touchie-feelie" psychology but it is misguided to generalize from the occasional questionable actions of a few and very short-sighted to draw conclusions about Inayat Khan's flavor of Sufism from the transcripts of his classes given 75 years ago to western intellectuals which constitute the vast majority of what is to be found in Inayat Khan books. We treasure these momentos highly however Sufism remains an oral tradition where the teacher chooses words based on what is needed to commuicate experience to a particular student or group. Such words are all but meaningless outside of that context. Sufism is about the personal relationship between the mureed, his/her teacher and Allah. That's the only generalization I have ever felt able to use about Sufism. Bob Olhsson Bob Olhsson Audio | O tongue, thou art a olh@hyperback.com | treasure without end. P.O. Box 555 | And, O tongue, thou art also a Novato, CA 94948-0555 | disease without remedy. 415.457.2620 | 415.456.1496 FAX | == Jelal'uddin Rumi == From tariqas-approval Fri Sep 8 06:34:00 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA09953; Fri, 8 Sep 1995 19:20:37 -0400 Received: from relay2.UU.NET by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA09938; Fri, 8 Sep 1995 19:20:34 -0400 Received: from gatekeeper.mcimail.com by relay2.UU.NET with SMTP id QQzgin22366; Fri, 8 Sep 1995 15:19:53 -0400 Received: from mailgate.mcimail.com (mailgate.mcimail.com [166.38.40.3]) by gatekeeper.mcimail.com (8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id TAA31557; Fri, 8 Sep 1995 19:09:50 GMT Received: from mcimail.com by mailgate.mcimail.com id ac02169; 8 Sep 95 19:10 WET Date: Fri, 8 Sep 95 11:34 EST From: Mike Moore <0007106488@mcimail.com> To: tariqas Subject: Re: Pre-eminence in tariqas Message-Id: <35950908163453/0007106488PJ3EM@MCIMAIL.COM> Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Hamza, Here is my idea on this friction between people. Why did Allah make us social beings. He could have made us like lions in the mountains that live alone and do not need other lions except for procreation. But he made us to live together. Why? So that we might become more than we would be if alone. Have you ever seen rocks being polished ? They are put together in a canister that spins. The friction of the rocks rubbing each other smooths the jagged edges until a beauatiful polished rock is made. The most difficult` test is getting along with others. If a man thinks he is holy, let him have children to take care of. If he finds the activities of his children to be disgusting, he may take his lesson and deal with it or he may fail the test and run away. So, if you are upset by the friction, well, IMHO it is all part of the plan. -Michael- From tariqas-approval Fri Sep 8 21:02:12 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA28716; Fri, 8 Sep 1995 20:03:14 -0400 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA28677; Fri, 8 Sep 1995 20:03:12 -0400 Date: Fri, 8 Sep 1995 20:03:12 +0059 (EDT) From: Steve H Rose Subject: Re: Recent Chittick article (fwd) To: tariqas@world.std.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: From: olh@hyperback.com (Bob Olhsson) > Parallel to the resurgence of Sufism in the Islamic world has been the >spread of Sufi teachings to the West. In America, drunken Sufism was >introduced in the early part of this century by the Chisti shaykh and >musician Inayat Khan (<>, Tucson, 1988); his >teachings have been continued by his son, Pir Vlayet Inayat Khan, a >frequent lecturer on the New Age circuit. In Europe, sober sufism gained >a wide audience among intellectuals through the writings of the French >metaphysician Rene' Gue'non, who died in Cairo in 1951 (<of the Cross>>, London, 1958). More recently hundreds of volumes have >been publihed in Western languages that are addressed to Sufi seekers >and reflect the range of perspectives found in the original texts, from >sobriety >to intoxication. Many of these works are written by authentic representatives >of Sufi silsilahs [chains of transmission], but many more are written by people >who have adopted Sufism to justify teachings of questionable origin, or who >have left the safeguards of right practice and right thought -- islam and iman >[submission and belief] -- and hence have no access to the ihsan [excellence] >that is built upon the two. This sounds to me like a collection of the negative hearsay that floats around among various orders critical of each other. I doubt that there is any individual with sufficient direct experience of the various orders to accurately make such sweeping critical generalizations. Inayat Khan's followers came to Islam and Sufism in a strictly intellectual manner within a culturally hostile enviornment. It seems pretty obvious that his early followers needed non-intellectual experiences of Sufism far more than they needed further self-rightous elite intellectual intoxication or "Orientalism" as it was called. We English-style intellectuals still fall into that trap and are most grateful to receive help. Certainly no one teacher's style is considered remotely appropriate for everybody and this has been emphasised by my teacher and many others in Inayat Khan's lineage. We are taught that every mureed needs instruction and practices appropriate to his/her life. This will logically cross a spectrum from apparant sobriety to apparant intoxication as percieved by those outside the particular relationship. I can assure you that intoxication is not the goal of any teacher I'm familiar with after eighteen years of involvement with SIRS and Sufi Order in the West teachers. Certainly from time to time individuals have gone off the deep end of both fundamentalism and "touchie-feelie" psychology but it is misguided to generalize from the occasional questionable actions of a few and very short-sighted to draw conclusions about Inayat Khan's flavor of Sufism from the transcripts of his classes given 75 years ago to western intellectuals which constitute the vast majority of what is to be found in Inayat Khan books. We treasure these momentos highly however Sufism remains an oral tradition where the teacher chooses words based on what is needed to commuicate experience to a particular student or group. Such words are all but meaningless outside of that context. Sufism is about the personal relationship between the mureed, his/her teacher and Allah. That's the only generalization I have ever felt able to use about Sufism. Bob Olhsson Bob Olhsson Audio | O tongue, thou art a olh@hyperback.com | treasure without end. P.O. Box 555 | And, O tongue, thou art also a Novato, CA 94948-0555 | disease without remedy. 415.457.2620 | 415.456.1496 FAX | == Jelal'uddin Rumi == From tariqas-approval Fri Sep 8 15:47:25 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA02917; Sat, 9 Sep 1995 01:47:29 -0400 Received: from carson-oms2.u.washington.edu by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA02908; Sat, 9 Sep 1995 01:47:27 -0400 Received: from carson.u.washington.edu by carson-oms2.u.washington.edu (5.65+UW95.08/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id AA24556; Fri, 8 Sep 95 22:47:26 -0700 Date: Fri, 8 Sep 1995 22:47:25 -0700 (PDT) From: "L. Ila" To: tariqasnet Subject: Sisters in Islam press release (fwd) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: asalaam-u-aleikum I have been receiving some extraordinary email from Beijing. love to all Lily ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Fri, 8 Sep 1995 20:27:41 -0700 Subject: Sisters in Islam press release here's the sisters in Islam (Malaysia group) press release that was issued in the newspaper, etc. on Thrusday, 9/7. *** Two dominant and opposing views on Islam which have emerged in the NGO Forum has been challenged by a group of Muslim women activists. The group from Malaysia, Kuwait, Bangladesh, Pakistan, Indonesia, the UNited States and Canada said the two opposing views do not represent the majority of Muslims worldwide. The first fiew reflects an ultra-conservative position, focusing on comparing the ideals of Islam iwht the reality and ills of hte Western world. A second view rejects religion as a reactiojn against Islamic conservatism and abuses committed int he name of Islam For many of us, both views are unrealistic and untenable. Islam recognized equality between women and men, it does not advocate polygamy, nor does it condone domestic violence. It is not a religion that oppresses women, nor does it restrict them from full participation in public life. In reality, Islam has been used to justify laws and practices which oppress women. This occurs as a result of customs, traditions, and values which regard women as inferior and subordinate to men. The group advocates a reconstruction of Islamic principles, procedures and practices in light of the basic Quranic principles of equality and justice. The grooup intends to continue its work on various issues including a serious study of the sources of Islamic jurisprudence and the unrealistic assessment of the financial realities for women in the modern world. Sisters in Islam, Malaysia Dr. Riffat Hassan, USA Sharifa Aminha, Malaysia Muslim Women's League, USA Nefisra Viviani, Indonesia Fatima Hussain, Kuwait Muslim Welfare Organization, Malaysia From tariqas-approval Sat Sep 9 14:41:41 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA12421; Sat, 9 Sep 1995 14:41:41 -0400 Date: Sat, 9 Sep 1995 14:41:41 -0400 Message-Id: <199509091841.AA12421@world.std.com> To: tariqas-approval@world.std.com From: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Subject: BOUNCE tariqas@world.std.com: Admin request Status: RO X-Status: >From c640429@cclabs.missouri.edu Sat Sep 9 08:41:31 1995 Return-Path: Received: from everest.cclabs.missouri.edu by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA12414; Sat, 9 Sep 1995 14:41:39 -0400 Received: from muphnx15 (muphnx15.phlab.missouri.edu [128.206.115.25]) by everest.cclabs.missouri.edu (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA15360 for ; Sat, 9 Sep 1995 13:41:32 -0500 From: Jawad Qureshi Message-Id: <199509091841.NAA15360@everest.cclabs.missouri.edu> Received: by muphnx15 (NX5.67e/NX3.0X) id AA00668; Sat, 9 Sep 95 13:41:31 -0500 Date: Sat, 9 Sep 95 13:41:31 -0500 Received: by NeXT.Mailer (1.100) Received: by NeXT Mailer (1.100) To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: subscirbe me!! Salam, Please subscribe me! E-mail: Salam, Jawad. From tariqas-approval Sat Sep 9 06:09:46 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA19434; Sat, 9 Sep 1995 16:10:05 -0400 Received: from lafn.org by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA19313; Sat, 9 Sep 1995 16:09:53 -0400 Received: by lafn.org id AA20973 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for tariqas@world.std.com); Sat, 9 Sep 1995 13:09:46 -0700 Date: Sat, 9 Sep 1995 13:09:46 -0700 Message-Id: <199509092009.AA20973@lafn.org> From: an525@lafn.org (Ivan Ickovits) To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: boef Cc: an525@lafn.org Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Dear friends: Where is the beef? This could be interpreted as where is the argument, but tht is not my intent. My intent is where is the sufism of experience that is currently missing from these postings. Where is that rich discussion of personal interactions with the beloved? I miss those inputs. Raqib in Santa Monica. -- q k From tariqas-approval Sat Sep 9 08:37:18 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA20860; Sat, 9 Sep 1995 18:38:08 -0400 Received: from lafn.org by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA20768; Sat, 9 Sep 1995 18:37:52 -0400 Received: by lafn.org id AA14380 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for tariqas@world.std.com); Sat, 9 Sep 1995 15:37:18 -0700 Date: Sat, 9 Sep 1995 15:37:18 -0700 Message-Id: <199509092237.AA14380@lafn.org> From: an525@lafn.org (Ivan Ickovits) To: tariqas@world.std.com, WH@seas.upenn.edu Subject: [WesBurt@aol.com: #180-1 The Two Domestic Policie] Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Just wanted to pass this along as a point of interest and broaden some considerations. ==== ============= Begin forwarded message ================= From: WesBurt@aol.com (unknown) To: alexandria@world.std.com Cc: WesBurt@aol.com Subject: #180-1 The Two Domestic Policie Date: Sat, 09 Sep Gentlemen: It might help to widen, deepen, and enrich this discussion if I could more clearly define the stakes in the game we play, but do not control. There seems to be a broad consensus that the world has become a global village due to the technological advances in communications and transportation over the last 200 years. This astonishing accomplishment took place in a very short time. Recall that Hamilton, Madison, and Jay while writing the FEDERALIST communicated at the same rate, and traveled at the same speed, as King Artaxerxes of Persia and Ezra the priest/scribe in B.C. 457, when the remnant of Judah and Benjamin returned from Babylon to build the second Temple at Jerusalem, and, according to Julius Wellhausen1844-1918, to compile and edit the Pentateuch to provide an ancient warrant for the domestic policy acknowledged by Tobit in the third book of the APOCRYPHA. That is, a warrant for the domestic policy, or tax structure, that gave the first tithe of GNP (1/3rd public revenue) to the priesthood at the Temple, the second tithe (1/3rd public revenue) to be sold away by each taxpayer and the proceeds spent on visits to the Temple, and a third tithe (1/3rd public revenue) to be distributed to those below the poverty line by carefully administered means testing. This is the same domestic policy that was established in the United Kingdom around 1600 by the enclosures and the Poor Laws (read Goldsmith's THE DESERTED VILLAGE 1770, and Belloc's THE SERVILE STATE 1912), and in the United States around 1900 during the transition to an industrial economy adjusted to operate with 5-10% unemployment and 2-3%/year inflation (read H. C. Adams' RELATION OF THE STATE TO INDUSTRIAL ACTION 1887). There is an older and better tax code which informed the domestic policy of the British colonies in North America and the United States during its first century. It also collects three tithes of GNP, but it differs from the above tax code, which we received from our Judeo-Christian-(Catholic)-Tradition, in how, and for what, the public revenue is disbursed. This Mosaic tax code, which is equally the heritage of Judaism, Islam, Bahai, Catholicism, and all Protestant denominations because it is written in the books of Genesis and Numbers, and I believe, equally the heritage of every other faith if they would take the trouble to search their sacred texts for it, because it was promulgated in 70 languages when Israel received the Law at Sinai, according to Jewish commentary. This better tax code, we may also call it a better corporate financial policy because many American Colonies were corporations before they joined together in a Commonwealth which in turn is a corporation, invests the first tithe (1/3rd public revenue) half in universal education and the other half in parenting families for the support of their children and the satisfaction of Say's Law. This is the most important tithe, because a deficiency here suppresses the productive capacity of the population both immediately and over future generations. The second tithe (1/3rd public revenue) is due to the priesthood, the 13th Tribe, the establishment, or whatever, and if by chance the public refuses to pay that second tithe the "Best and Brightest" will take it anyway, and then some. A third tithe (1/3rd public revenue), and then some, covers all other proper functions of government, including charity for the non-productive helpless and elderly. The stakes in this game are high. The present trend of America's social order has no natural resting place, or at least none that any nation in history has left a record of, short of the third world condition. A fair measure of the stakes is the difference in Gross National Product/capita produced by five nations since the 1940's. Data for 1949 and 1961 is from Charles P. Kindleberger's ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT 1958. Data for 1993 is from the World Bank ATLAS. In the raw form of GNP/capita converted to dollars at prevailing exchange rates only a "policy wonk" could bear to study the data, or see the trends in the following small data set: 1949 1961 1993 GNP/capita/yr. ex-rate ex-rate ex-rate U.S.A. 1,453 2,308 24,750 United Kingdom 773 1,149 17,970 Switzerland 849 1,463 36,410 West Germany 320 1,072 23,560 Japan 100 402 31,450 But when the GNP/capita of each nation is divided by the GNP/capita of a nation that has enforced the Mosaic tax code for the last hundred years, the trends become obvious, as we were taught in high school math and physics classes. The trends are as follows: 1949 1961 1993 U.S.A. (% Swiss) 171 158 68 U.K. (% Swiss) 91 79 49 Swiss. (% Swiss) 100 100 100 W. Ger. (% Swiss) 38 73 65 Japan (% Swiss) 12 27 86 Who among us will dare to remain silent when the American taxpayer and voter becomes aware of the fact that his GNP/capita has been suppressed from 171% of Swiss to 68% of Swiss since World War II? Notice that the West Germans have lost ground since 1961, Japan has surpassed the U.S.A., while the U.K. continues to slowly fall below its previous status. But no statesman from any of these countries ( Helmut Schmitt on C-Span a few weeks ago, comes to mind), none of our Catholic politicians, none of our Protestant clergy, and none of our 13th Tribe dare to speak to this issue. Can any of you see any incentive for this silence, beyond our century old habit (four century old habit in the U.K.) of coping with 5-10% unemployment by keeping our mouths shut? I hope there will be no replies from subscribers to Alexandria like the following recent post to from a Canadian "Greenie" with a degree, I think, in economics, but not in manners: > Where the heck is everyone? I get absolutely nothing > at all now except near book-length excerpts from an >apparently half-mad British Israelite, combining >incomprehensible economics with questionable and >arbitrary readings from Scripture. Presumably this >fellow will eventually tire out when he realizes that no one >on earth understands what he is saying, and then there >will be no ecotheol postings at all. I know that things > slow down in the summer, but this is not a slowdown -- >this is a dead stop. There were dozens of individuals >contributing before, most of them quite worth reading, >and a few very good indeed. Where are you all? > > Starved ecotheologian. > Once the subscribers learn that the big issues are not welcome on the list, they look for greener pastures, in droves. Eventually, somewhere, why not on Alexandria. I owe this concluding thought to : >"As Heraclitus once said, "Wisdom is One; it is both >willing and unwilling to be called by the name of Zeus (or >Jesus or Buddha)..." Give my best regards to all, Wesley S. Burt -- q k From tariqas-approval Mon Sep 11 02:52:43 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA01527; Sun, 10 Sep 1995 02:53:47 -0400 Received: from yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA01513; Sun, 10 Sep 1995 02:53:43 -0400 Received: from localhost (darice@localhost) by yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (8.6.4/8.6.4) id QAA23845; Sun, 10 Sep 1995 16:53:41 +1000 Date: Sun, 10 Sep 1995 16:52:43 +1000 (EST) From: Fred Rice Subject: Idries Shah's lineage To: tariqas@world.std.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Assalamu alaikum, Does anyone know Idries Shah's spiritual lineage -- i.e. which Sufi order is he from ? Thanks, Fred Rice From tariqas-approval Mon Sep 11 02:58:33 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA02316; Sun, 10 Sep 1995 03:00:30 -0400 Received: from yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA02310; Sun, 10 Sep 1995 03:00:27 -0400 Received: from localhost (darice@localhost) by yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (8.6.4/8.6.4) id RAA24146; Sun, 10 Sep 1995 17:00:25 +1000 Date: Sun, 10 Sep 1995 16:58:33 +1000 (EST) From: Fred Rice Subject: Re: Recent Chittick article To: tariqas@world.std.com In-Reply-To: <01HV18BWB6VM9I4H1K@ccmail.sunysb.edu> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: > Contemporary representatives of sober Sufism emphasize knowledge, > discernment, and differentiation and usually stress the importance of the > shari`ah. Best known in this group is Frithjof Schuon (< Perennial Philosophy>>, London, 1976), who makes no explicit claims in > his books to Sufi affiliations but, as reviewers have often remarked, writes > with an air of spiritual authority. He is said to be a member of the > Shadhiliyah-`Alawiyah order of North Africa (G.C. Anwati and L. Gardet, > <>, Paris, 1968, p. 72). He takes an extreme > position on the importance of discernment and offers a rigorous criticism > of the roots of modern antireligion. The main thrust of his writings seems > to be to offer a theory of world religions based on the idea of a universal > esoterism, the Islamic form of which is Sufism. He frequently asserts the > necessity for esoterists of all religions to observe the exoteric teachings of > their traditions, this being the shari`ah in the case of Islam. Titus > Burckhardt (<>, Cambridge, England, 1975) represents > a similar perspective, but his works are more explicitly grounded in > traditional Sufi teachings. Martin Lings (<> Berkeley, > 1975), who has also published under the name Abu Bakr Siraj ed-Din > (<> London, 1952), presents a picture of Sufism > that is intellectually rigorous but firmly grounded in explicit Islamic > teachings. > The noted Iranian scholar Seyyed Hossein Nasr (<>, London, > 1972) also stresses intellectual discernment more than love, and he > repeatedly insists that there is no Sufism without the shari`ah. The books > of the Turkish Cerrahi leader Muzaffer Ozak (<>, > New York, 1982) present shari`ah-oriented Sufism that is much more focused > on love than on intellectual discernment. The Naqshbandi master Nazim al- > Qubrusi (<>, London, 1983) offers a warm > presentation of desirable human qualities, again rooted in a perspective > that stresses love and often discusses the shariatic basis of Sufism. The > Iranian Ni`matullahi leader Javad Nurbakhsh (<>, vols. 1-5, > London, 1984-1991) has published several anthologies of classic Sufi texts; > his own perspective falls on the side of intoxication, with emphasis on > oneness of being and union with God. He pays little attention to the > shari`ah, but he discusses the importance of Sufi communal activities such > as sessions of dhikr. Even more to the side of love and intoxication are the > works of Guru Bawa Muhaiyaddeen (<>, > Philadelphia, 1982), who presents a synthesis of Sufism and Hindu teachings > that is recognizably Islamic only in its terminology. > I noticed that Idries Shah is not mentioned here.... why do you think that is, since his works are certainly prominent ? Is it because he is too controversial, perhaps ? (I personally do not know much about his background.) Wassalam, Fred Rice From tariqas-approval Mon Sep 11 03:29:22 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA07732; Sun, 10 Sep 1995 03:35:45 -0400 Received: from yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA07705; Sun, 10 Sep 1995 03:35:41 -0400 Received: from localhost (darice@localhost) by yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (8.6.4/8.6.4) id RAA25006; Sun, 10 Sep 1995 17:35:38 +1000 Date: Sun, 10 Sep 1995 17:29:22 +1000 (EST) From: Fred Rice Subject: Recommend a Sufi book ? To: tariqas@world.std.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Assalamu alaikum, A friend of mine is interested in reading something about Sufism. Can anyone recommend any particular book(s) which they think are good? She doesn't come from a Muslim background, but has read in the past about Zen Buddhism. Since I was raised a Muslim, my own readings about Sufism initially came from the direction of Islam-based books (eg. books of Seyyed Hossein Nasr) which may not be the right approach for non-Muslims. So what do you think is a good book for her, since she doesn't come from a Muslim background (more of an atheist one, I think), and she is also interested in Zen Buddhism. I am open-minded about all suggestions -- all I ask are your sincere recommendations :) Thanks in advance! Wassalam, Fred Rice From tariqas-approval Sun Sep 10 01:02:37 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA27650; Sun, 10 Sep 1995 11:02:46 -0400 Received: from lafn.org by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA27635; Sun, 10 Sep 1995 11:02:44 -0400 Received: by lafn.org id AA03496 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for tariqas@world.std.com); Sun, 10 Sep 1995 08:02:37 -0700 Date: Sun, 10 Sep 1995 08:02:37 -0700 Message-Id: <199509101502.AA03496@lafn.org> From: an525@lafn.org (Ivan Ickovits) To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: Recent Chittick article Cc: an525@lafn.org Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Some choose the intoxication of sobriety, some choose the intoxication of power, others are addicted to the clarity of the mind. Let us each in this tavern of ruin, choose wisely and if perchance we see a crazed ecstatic soul as a direct window to the heart of the beloved, well let us recognize our blessings. Al Ham Du Lilah Raqib -- q k From tariqas-approval Sun Sep 10 07:22:13 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA23027; Sun, 10 Sep 1995 12:22:48 -0400 Received: from ccmail.sunysb.edu by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA23017; Sun, 10 Sep 1995 12:22:47 -0400 Received: from ccmail.sunysb.edu by ccmail.sunysb.edu (PMDF V5.0-3 #8051) id <01HV404NDPDS9I4PUQ@ccmail.sunysb.edu> for tariqas@world.std.com; Sun, 10 Sep 1995 12:22:13 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 10 Sep 1995 12:22:13 -0500 (EST) From: GHADDAD@ccmail.sunysb.edu Subject: [4] What are angels? To: tariqas@world.std.com Message-Id: <01HV404NFDNM9I4PUQ@ccmail.sunysb.edu> X-Vms-To: in%"tariqas@world.std.com" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: State University of New York at Stony Brook Stony Brook, NY G. Fouad Haddad 10-Sep-1995 12:19pm EDT FROM: GHADDAD TO: Remote Addressee ( _tariqas@world.std.com ) Subject: [4] What are angels? [4] WHAT ARE ANGELS ? (Continued) ================================= Excerpted from Shaykh Hisham Kabbani's <> (Introduction): As the angels move in the divine presence, their lights move in and upon the orbits which God created to be governed by them. Angelic powers affect the movements and contents of these orbits. Since these orbits reflect angelic lights upon earth, we see how human beings can in turn be affected by the movements of orbits in their lives. Angelic lights also affect feelings, moods, manners, and actions. The elements and qualities of human beings and other created objects on earth vary according to their respective distances from the sources of angelic power. Hence we find differences between human beings, even though their bodies are similar. This is because they differ in respect to their connections with angels. The differences are not really in bodies but in the human beings spiritual attributes and characteristics. Human beings carry from childhood either the characteristics of goodness and holiness, or those of evil and wrongdoing. That is a very real picture of the spiritual dress of human beings and their hierarchies: one receives an angelic power while the other does not. This is what makes one better than the other, just as diamonds excel emeralds, which are better than sapphire, which is better than rubies. All these are rare jewels but they vary in exellence. For all these jewels are more precious than gold. Gold is more precious than silver and silver is more precious than iron. The latter ends up as scrap while the others are always kept as valuable elements. Light is better than darkness. The transparent is better than the opaque. The subtle is better than the dense. The enlightened person is better than the one in darkness. The beautiful is better than the ugly. The one calling to goodness is better than the one calling to evil. The shy, courageous, generous, patient one is better than the one who carries hatred, enmity, darkness, evil, greed, and stinginess. All the above-mentioned characteristics depend on the nearness or farness of their respective bearers to the sources of angelic power. Therefore, in this world the human spirit is a sign pointing dimly to the perfection of the higher world. It is like the light of the candle in relation to the light of the sun, or a small drop in relation to the ocean. Angelic light is the means of visibility of light on earth, both material and spiritual. We know about the sun from its rays. Similarly, we know about God from the creations of the heavens and the earth, the perception of which is brought about by the shining of angelic light upon them and their expression through revelation by that light. There is no darkness for us deeper than the non-existence of angelic light. There is no light of God more expressive for us than the angelic light. The appearance of each single thing is the result of this light, just as the existence of each thing proceeds from its existence. In this way God preserves creation through the light of the angels. End of the continued excerpt from the Introduction to <> By Shaykh Hisham Kabbani, KAZI Publications, Chicago. Blessings and Peace on the Prophet, his Family, and his Companions. Fouad Haddad Naqshbandi-Haqqani Foundation From tariqas-approval Sun Sep 10 07:25:29 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA24527; Sun, 10 Sep 1995 12:26:05 -0400 Received: from ccmail.sunysb.edu by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA24515; Sun, 10 Sep 1995 12:26:02 -0400 Received: from ccmail.sunysb.edu by ccmail.sunysb.edu (PMDF V5.0-3 #8051) id <01HV408PBUZ49I4PUQ@ccmail.sunysb.edu> for tariqas@world.std.com; Sun, 10 Sep 1995 12:25:29 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 10 Sep 1995 12:25:29 -0500 (EST) From: GHADDAD@ccmail.sunysb.edu Subject: [5] What are angels? To: tariqas@world.std.com Message-Id: <01HV408PBYQQ9I4PUQ@ccmail.sunysb.edu> X-Vms-To: in%"tariqas@world.std.com" Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: State University of New York at Stony Brook Stony Brook, NY G. Fouad Haddad 10-Sep-1995 11:01am EDT FROM: GHADDAD TO: Remote Addressee ( _tariqas@world.std.com ) Subject: [5] What are angels? [5] WHAT ARE ANGELS ? (Continued) ================================= Excerpted from Shaykh Hisham Kabbani's <> (Introduction): Another way to describe the way the human spirit signifies the heavenly world is through the analogy of the solar eclipse. If a portion of the sun is eclipsed you can see the sun in a cupful of water. The veil of the eclipse is the angelic light. It makes possible the appearance of the source of light. Human beings are themselves like a veil or eclipse of the angelic light. That is, they eclipse the angelic light which eclipses the light of God. Thus you can see the attributes of the Creator through His wonderful creations. This is the meaning of the Prophet's saying: <> The spirits of human beings can be described as atoms inside the heavenly world and their bodies as the houses of their spirits. Now, the house has a state and the inhabitant of the house has a state distinct from the first state. It is clear to us that the inhabitant is more honorable than the house, for the greatness of the house depends on its inhabitant. These human spirits are an actual part of the angelic spirits. That is why the condition of entry into Paradise for the soul of a dying person is that it be accepted into the angelic realm first, as we have said. That is also why the human spirit is qualified to receive transmission from the angelic powers, as the satellite dish is made to receive transmission from the main station. To the extent that these individuals are connected to the angelic powers, they become undoubtedly more and more important to other human beings on earth. However, human bodies remain a compound of many different elements mixed together. The bodies of angels, on the other hand, are only made of light from the divine presence. It is important to know that this difference never goes away in the material world. That is why the angels prefer to support the spirits of the bodies of prophets. For the prophetic spirits have elevated their bodily receptacles to the point where they acquire all manners of gnosis and spiritual states. These in turn enable them to become beacons of light spreading heavenly gifts and carrying God's message to His creation. All these relations between angels and prophets, saints and pious people, obtain by God's will and His permission. When God created creation, He said: <> (78:37-38) God shows in these words that the angels are from among His greatest creations. They stand second to him and they are His messengers of revelation sent to His prophets. He has honored them by letting them reveal the astounding knowledge in two ways: spiritually and phenomenally. He reveals it spiritually by letting prophets bring such knowledge in heavenly books and thereby guide others to the faith and honorable manners characteristic of the servants of God. He reveals it phenomenally by inspiring the hearts of humankind to investigate and discover the visible world and accumulate empirical data. Hence, they achieve the most sophisticated technology that can possibly be reached by them in every given century. This opens another window into understanding the role of angels among human beings. Scientists are actually using the energies that radiate from the angels on this earth to build up technological knowledge. By use of angelic energy they achieve a perfect mode of living: educating, helping, and healing those in need. Spiritual people use the angelic power as a path of discovery for different purposes. They use this power in the knowledge that it is special grant from God. He gives them a sacred and noble trust that has the potential to govern countless bodies other than their own. This ability is defined as the angelic power in them. These spiritual people are known in Islamic spirituality as <> or <> They can move from one place to another in the blink of an eye. They can live at one and the same time in the first and the second place. They can live in many other places as well and yet maintain the same appearance as their original self. This is called ubiquity. Famous abdal in sufi history are al-Junayd, Abd al-Qadir Jilani, Jalal al-Din Rumi, Muhyiddin ibn Arabi, Mansur al-Hallaj. Sufi scholar-saints such as these, also known as knower- saints or gnostics (`arif, pl. `arifun), have confirmed that there is another world between that of human bodies on earth and that of angels, and have called that world the imaginal world. This imaginal world is more subtle than the earthly world and yet denser than the angelic world. This characteristic of the imaginal world allows the abdal to travel within that dimension in the way that we have mentioned. The method used by these spiritual people can be described as a self-riddance of the trappings of gravity. Everything yearns for its origin and the body yearns for earth which is pulled by gravity. The spirit, however, yearns to the heavenly realm which pulls upwards. These abdal were capable of balancing the opposite elements earth/heaven, or upward/downward, within themselves in such a way that the element earth which once dominated over the other is now dominated by the other and follows it. End of the continued excerpt from the Introduction to <> By Shaykh Hisham Kabbani, KAZI Publications, Chicago. Blessings and Peace on the Prophet, his Family, and his Companions. Fouad Haddad Naqshbandi-Haqqani Foundation