From tariqas-approval Sun Oct 1 09:46:27 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA00887; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 14:46:54 -0400 Received: from UNiX.asb.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA00872; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 14:46:52 -0400 Received: from sle1.asb.com (sle1.asb.com [165.254.128.71]) by UNiX.asb.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA02721 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 14:46:27 -0500 Date: Sun, 1 Oct 1995 14:46:27 -0500 Message-Id: <199510011946.OAA02721@UNiX.asb.com> X-Sender: f_haddad@unix.asb.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@world.std.com From: f_haddad@unix.asb.com (Fouad Haddad) Subject: [5] The Prophet's Journey X-Mailer: Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: [5] The Prophet's Journey ------------------------- Excerpt from Shaykh Hisham Kabbani's <>, KAZI 1995. The Fourth Paradise: Jannat al-Ma'wa Then Gabriel called for prayer and the Prophet led the prayer among all the inhabitants of Paradise. Then the Buraq moved for another five hundred thousand light-years during which they travelled towards the fourth heaven which is called Jannat al-Ma'wa: the Sheltering Garden. There they heard a voice mixing angels and spirits. The door of the Prophet was made of silver upon a floor of gold. Again, the voice behind the door asked: "Who is there?" and Gabriel answered, "Muhammad." "Has he been sent for?" "Yes." And the door opened. The Prophet saw angels standing and sitting, lying and bowing, praising and saying: "Subhan al-malik al-quddus rabb al-mala'ikati war ruh," : "Glory to the holiest King, Lord of the angels and the Spirit!" The Prophet asked Gabriel, "O Gabriel, is that not the prayer of my grandfather Abraham?" and Gabriel said, "Yes, this is how your grandfather Abraham used to pray, and God was so happy with that prayer that he created an entire host of angels and filled the fourth heaven with them. He ordered them to repeat the same prayer. If anyone recites that praising among human beings, God will give them rewards according to the number of these angels." Then the Prophet saw two angels, one of transparent crystal like spring water, and one denser like salt water. Gabriel said: "One is the angel of sweet waters. He carries all the oceans of this universe with his right thumb. The other is the angel of salty waters. He carries all the oceans of this universe in his left thumb. These are the angels responsible for supporting every creature in creation through water, sweet or salty. They meet without mixing, as God has said: "He hath loosed the two seas. They meet. There is a barrier between them. They encroach not one upon the other." (40:19-20) Behind them the Prophet saw angels shaped like birds, standing on the bank of a great river of Paradise. When a human being on earth says: "There is no god but God," one of these angel-birds opens his wings. If the person says: "Glory to God," the angel-bird enters the river to swim in it. When the person says: "Praise be to God," the angel-bird dives into the water. When the person says: "God is greatest," the angel-bird comes out of the river. When the person says: "There is no power nor might except in God," the angel-bird will shake off the water from him, and seventy thousand drops of water will come from him, out of each of which God creates an angel that asks forgiveness for that person until Judgment Day. In addition to this, God orders forty thousand rewards written in the book of that one and keeps them for him until his resurrection. Then the Prophet saw a man who leaned against the Books of human beings, in which were inscribed all their deeds. The Prophet asked: "Who is this?" Gabriel said: "This is the Prophet Idris, Peace be upon him." The Prophet approached Idris and greeted him. Idris greeted him back and said: "Welcome to the pious brother and perfect prophet." Above him the Prophet saw a dome of light on which was written: "There is no god but God, and Muhammad is His Messenger." The Prophet looked inside it and saw a venerable old man with a white beard filled with light and crowned with a white turban. He asked: "Who is that, O Gabriel?" He answered: "That is an angel representing the Prophet Idris." The Prophet greeted him and said: "O my brother! God has elevated you and honored you, and you have entered Paradise before me and saw its pleasures." Idris said: "O Beloved one! at first I did not enter Paradise nor see its pleasure. But when I left this world I entered a garden on which door I saw: 'Beyond this door none may enter before Muhammad and his nation.' And I asked God, 'For the sake of my grandson Muhammad, let me in.' God let me in, so now because of you I am in this place." Then Idris recited: "This Station sought by all for shelter, This lofty place where all people bow subdued And stands the noble Messenger With wisdom and might endued, Station of guidance and angelic light Where gloom of night and orphans' sadness At once are effaced, This is the Station of direct communication And the firm foothold for those determined to reach. The All-Merciful called him His beloved one And he is the beloved one of the universe And from his light came the light of all life." From tariqas-approval Sun Oct 1 16:50:52 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA07304; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 21:51:07 -0400 Received: from UNiX.asb.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA07293; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 21:51:06 -0400 Received: from sle3.asb.com (sle3.asb.com [165.254.128.73]) by UNiX.asb.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA03793 for ; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 21:50:52 -0500 Date: Sun, 1 Oct 1995 21:50:52 -0500 Message-Id: <199510020250.VAA03793@UNiX.asb.com> X-Sender: f_haddad@unix.asb.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@world.std.com From: f_haddad@unix.asb.com (Fouad Haddad) Subject: Re: Ghazali on Jihad al-nafs X-Mailer: Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: >>a) Meaning of nafs: It has two meanings. First, it means the >>powers of anger and sexual appetite in a human being... and this >>is the usage mostly found among the people of tasawwuf [sufis], >>who take "nafs" as the comprehensive word for all the evil >>attributes of a person. That is why they say: one must certainly >>do battle with the ego and break it (la budda min mujahadat al-nafs >>wa kasriha), as is referred to in the hadith: <>`aduwwuka nafsuka al-lati bayna janibayk>> [Your worst enemy is >>your nafs which lies between your flanks. Al-`Iraqi says it is >>in Bayhaqi on the authority of Ibn `Abbas and its chain of >>transmission contains Muhammad ibn Abd al-Rahman ibn Ghazwan, >>one of the forgers]. > >Where can this hadith be found? I have seen it in various texts ... > It can be found in <> [Book of ahadith on "Doing- without" = asceticism] of Bayhaqi, which I think is included in his massive <>. (Neither is translated) > >>and about the person who controlled >>the passion of his ego God says: "But as for him who feared to >>stand before his Lord and restrained his soul from lust, Lo! The >>garden will be his home" (79:40-41). > >What is the sort of fear of the Lord that is relevant here? I know the same >language is used in the Old Testament/Tanakh ... > <> is a hadith whose wording is identical to a passage in Ecclesiates, I think. As for the meaning, I have heard from my shaykh that the fear of the believer is the fear of knowing oneself to be imperfect, and therefore feeling fearful of standing before one's perfect Lord, as in the hadith: <> >> >>d) The Prophet (s) said: <>ta`at Allah `azza wa jall>> [The fighter against unbelief is he >>who fights against his ego in obeying God; Tirmidhi, Ibn Majah, >>Ibn Hibban, Tabarani, Hakim, etc.]... Sufyan al-Thawri said: "I >>never dealt with anything stronger against me than my own ego; it >>was one time with me, and one time against me"... Yahya ibn >>Mu`adh al-Razi said: "Fight against your ego with the four swords >>of training: eat little, sleep little, speak little, and be >>patient when people harm you... Then the ego will walk the paths >>of obedience, like a fleeing horseman in the field of battle." > >These words on finding the personal self, the idea of "I" to be the key enemy >reminds me of a text by Dharmarakshita, as brought to Tibet by his disciple >Atisha (982-1054); it is as a key text in Tibetan Buddhism. What do you think >of the parallel --- a refrain that is repeated ongoingly at the end of each >stanza of this very long instructive poem is: >Trample him, trample him, dance on the head > Of this treacherous concept of selfish concern. >Tear out the heart of this self-centred butcher > Who slaughters our chance to gain final release. >(from his The Wheel of Sharp Weapons) > >> >> >>Blessings and Peace on the Prophet of Perfection, his Family, and >>his Companions >> >>Fouad Haddad >>Naqshbandi-Haqqani Foundation of Ahl al-Sunnat wal-Jama`at >> >> >> Thank you for your message Jinavamsa :-) From tariqas-approval Sun Oct 1 12:51:05 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA09654; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 22:51:28 -0400 Received: from lafn.org by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA09531; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 22:51:20 -0400 Received: by lafn.org id AA26749 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for tariqas@world.std.com); Sun, 1 Oct 1995 19:51:05 -0700 Date: Sun, 1 Oct 1995 19:51:05 -0700 Message-Id: <199510020251.AA26749@lafn.org> From: an525@lafn.org (Ivan Ickovits) To: WH@seas.upenn.edu, tariqas@world.std.com Subject: [an525@lafn.org: Healing etc.] Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Should be of interest to some. If not please delete. Raqib in Santa Monica This item is part of the Academy of Jerusalem proceedings. If you wish to comment or receive further related material, contact us by email at yrusalem@actcom.co.il Kabbalah-Models for Healing - 3. Dr. Yitzhak Hayutman, R&D Dean, Academy of Jerusaelm. P.O.B. 8115, Jerusalem 9108 Isrrael. T (972-2) 271-633 The following will be a compilation of two lectures given at the first two Dead Sea Conferences on Interaction of Eastern and Western Midicine plus some topics added in the context of introducing a comprehensive project on "Kabbalah and Healing". The first paper surveyed the subject of Kabbalistic models in a fairly strict sense. The additions would be about the Kabbalah as vehicle, introducing several subjects which are not commonly considered as a study of Kabbalah, but were experientially important in the development of the Kabbalah tradition, and exemplify Kabbalistic "vehicles". The second paper surveyed the range of potential healing objectives, not just for individual well-being, but also for ecological health and for peace-making. The vehicles will then be seen as dynamic connectors, or conveyors, between subject and object and for intersubjective cooperation. Kabbalistic "vehicles". 1. Kabbalah Proper The very word "Kabbalah" is a major vehicle. The word means literally "reception" or "receptivity". It is likely that originally the word meant just "transmitted tradition", but recently it was noted (largely by the modern Kabbalist Yehudah Ashlag and his students) that Kabbalah means "training in the art of receiving". Thus it is sometimes claimed that Kabbalah deals with the transformation of the egoistical "will to receive" for one's self to an altruistic skill in "receiving in order to give". This understanding of Kabbalah thus deliniates a practice of strengthening, rather than discarding, the will - but also a change in life goals which ultimately amounts to a change in self-definition. Thus Kabbalah may mean reception of the divine, including also the reception of the "higher self" or "divine soul" and of the reception of the divine in the other and of "divine otherness" of "the Eternal Thou" (in Buber's phrase). 2. Merkavah This word means both "chariot" and, generically, "assembly" or anything that is complex or assembled in an integral manner. Ecstatic visions in line with those of the visions of the prophet Ezekiel delt with the divine "throne" constructed as a vehicle and thus helping to convey the human adept to the divine realms. A Key expression is that of the sages that "the Patriarchs are the Merkavah", and later Kabbalah explained that the examples of the patriarches Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (and also Moses, Aharon, Joseph and especially King David, and Lurianic Kabbalah added much about Rachel and Le'ah in this assembly) add up in a systematic manner to form the supreme model of humanity. The original Jewish mystical tradition of engaging in "ma'asei Merkavah" (refered to in the Talmud) may thus mean "engaging in acts of integration" and of assembling various appropriate vehicles for reaching spiritual and holistic goals. 3. Heykhalot The earliest known Jewish mystical texts are characterise as the "Heikhalot Texts". The word is taken to mean "(heavenly) mansions", but in a more generic sense it means "special spaces" or "(spiritual) containers". In this sense, Heykhalot are much related to the basic Kabbalistic concept of "Kelim" (vessels or vehicles), and the Zohar, for example, includes sections where spatial imagery is used to describe the experiencing of the various Sephirot and fundamental ontological stances such as Will, Love, Compassion, etc. The adept may make a spiritual pilgrimage (Lekh Lekha, Higrah, Pilgrimage, Aliyah, Night Journey, Spiritual Crusade, etc.) of rising through several such special spaces in a certain significant order. Obviousely the narative form of journey or adventure (as romance, pilgrim's progress, or nowadays computer adventure games) is very suitable for charting the order of progression. Significantly in the Heykhalot texts, passage is often conditioned on acquiring a "key" of a charmed formula or a divine name that convinces the gate-keeper that the adept is worthy to enter. Later Kabbalah uses many "key and lock" metaphores. 4. Angels and Magidim The idea of divine messangers is universal and is certainly developed in Jewish tradition, from the Book of Genesis down to the latest Kabbalah. Angels appeared in history and were sought by later ecstatic contemplators. Apparitions of prophets (especially Elijah) and sages may appear in dreams and mystical contemplations, whether in a sudden or an almost-regular manner. Again, the very Biblical word for angel - Mal'akh - merits scrutiny. Mal'akh is the male form of Melakha, a work that causes some change in the world. (As is often noted about the Shabbat observances - the avoidance is not of a physical exertion per se, but on causing some artificial change). Thus, "artificial" is in Hebrew Melakhuti. The sages learnt from the three angels of Abraham and Lot that no angel does two different types of work. The Kabbalah indeed teaches that many, if not most, angels are man-made artifacts, created out of each person's deeds, for good or evil, that surround that person and facilitate or hinder his life choises. Angels may form bands and even complex asemblies like of the Merkavah. Thus in the Biblical passage of the journeys of Jacob-Israel away and back to the holy land, bands of angels help him. In the customary Jewish bedtime prayer, one quotes: "On my right Michael, on my Left Gabriel, ahead of me Uriel, behind me Rephael (not the Ninja turtle!) and above me the presence (Shekhinah) of the divine. Thus one is surounded by divine Love on the right, Might on the left, Light ahead, Healing behind and the completer divine presence above, forming a safe envelope for the night-journey of the soul during sleep. We may mention here that dream ascents are fairly common practice of Kabbalah and a person may train to have a "dream question" which he brings to divine councillors whom (s)he may meet during the dream ascent. It is clear that early Jewish mystics were very occpied with the images of ascended patriarches, prophets and sages, and in particular with the images of Enoch and Elijah who ascended to heaven without dying and apparently became arch-angels. The apocyrhal and Dead-Sea Sect texts about the ascent of Enoch who became the arch-angel Metatron (idel, 198x) as God's viceroy probably developed eventually to the Christian beliefs in Jesus as the man who ascended to the divine status on the "right hand of God" (and that's probably why these texts were suppressed in later Judaism). There is a continuous resort in Judaism, Christianity and Islam to encounters with an apparently similar figure, known alternatively as the Propher Elijah, Saint Michael and the Hidr in the respective cultures. "Giluy Eliyahu" (a revelation of, or encounter with, Elijah) has been the chief surviving Judaic mode of prophecy from the Second Temple period to the present, and the public appearance of Elijah is expected to precede the Coming of the Messiah (a belief strongly attested in the Christian gospels). This is based on the prophecy (Mal'akhi 3:23) that God "shall send you Elijah, the prophet, before the before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord; and he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers... ", a great process of human restitution. -- q k From tariqas-approval Sun Oct 1 19:45:25 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA03268; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 23:45:28 -0400 Received: from mail06.mail.aol.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA03256; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 23:45:27 -0400 Received: by mail06.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id XAA19593 for tariqas@world.std.com; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 23:45:25 -0400 Date: Sun, 1 Oct 1995 23:45:25 -0400 From: Jinavamsa@aol.com Message-Id: <951001234524_34153097@mail06.mail.aol.com> To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: Ghazali on Jihad al-nafs Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: hello there Fouad, thank you for your reply to my questions. I appreciate the references and the explanations you provide. in peace to all, Jinavamsa In a message dated 95-10-01 21:57:00 EDT, you write: > >>>a) Meaning of nafs: It has two meanings. First, it means the >>>powers of anger and sexual appetite in a human being... and this >>>is the usage mostly found among the people of tasawwuf [sufis], >>>who take "nafs" as the comprehensive word for all the evil >>>attributes of a person. That is why they say: one must certainly >>>do battle with the ego and break it (la budda min mujahadat al-nafs >>>wa kasriha), as is referred to in the hadith: <>>`aduwwuka nafsuka al-lati bayna janibayk>> [Your worst enemy is >>>your nafs which lies between your flanks. Al-`Iraqi says it is >>>in Bayhaqi on the authority of Ibn `Abbas and its chain of >>>transmission contains Muhammad ibn Abd al-Rahman ibn Ghazwan, >>>one of the forgers]. >> >>Where can this hadith be found? I have seen it in various texts ... >> > >It can be found in <> [Book of ahadith on "Doing- >without" = asceticism] of Bayhaqi, which I think is >included in his massive <>. (Neither is translated) > >> >>>and about the person who controlled >>>the passion of his ego God says: "But as for him who feared to >>>stand before his Lord and restrained his soul from lust, Lo! The >>>garden will be his home" (79:40-41). >> >>What is the sort of fear of the Lord that is relevant here? I know the same >>language is used in the Old Testament/Tanakh ... >> > ><> is a hadith whose >wording is identical to a passage in Ecclesiates, I think. >As for the meaning, I have heard from my shaykh that the fear of >the believer is the fear of knowing oneself to be imperfect, >and therefore feeling fearful of standing before one's perfect Lord, >as in the hadith: <Lord (to be perfect).>> > >>> >>>d) The Prophet (s) said: <>>ta`at Allah `azza wa jall>> [The fighter against unbelief is he >>>who fights against his ego in obeying God; Tirmidhi, Ibn Majah, >>>Ibn Hibban, Tabarani, Hakim, etc.]... Sufyan al-Thawri said: "I >>>never dealt with anything stronger against me than my own ego; it >>>was one time with me, and one time against me"... Yahya ibn >>>Mu`adh al-Razi said: "Fight against your ego with the four swords >>>of training: eat little, sleep little, speak little, and be >>>patient when people harm you... Then the ego will walk the paths >>>of obedience, like a fleeing horseman in the field of battle." >> >>These words on finding the personal self, the idea of "I" to be the key >enemy >>reminds me of a text by Dharmarakshita, as brought to Tibet by his disciple >>Atisha (982-1054); it is as a key text in Tibetan Buddhism. What do you >think >>of the parallel --- a refrain that is repeated ongoingly at the end of each >>stanza of this very long instructive poem is: >>Trample him, trample him, dance on the head >> Of this treacherous concept of selfish concern. >>Tear out the heart of this self-centred butcher >> Who slaughters our chance to gain final release. >>(from his The Wheel of Sharp Weapons) >> >>> >>> >>>Blessings and Peace on the Prophet of Perfection, his Family, and >>>his Companions >>> >>>Fouad Haddad >>>Naqshbandi-Haqqani Foundation of Ahl al-Sunnat wal-Jama`at >>> >>> >>> > >Thank you for your message Jinavamsa :-) > > > > From tariqas-approval Sun Oct 1 22:51:46 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA07053; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 02:51:48 -0400 Received: from mail02.mail.aol.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA07040; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 02:51:47 -0400 Received: by mail02.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id CAA02562 for tariqas@world.std.com; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 02:51:46 -0400 Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 02:51:46 -0400 From: Abdlqadir@aol.com Message-Id: <951002025146_34242841@mail02.mail.aol.com> To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: Heart and Intelligence Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: On 9/29/95 Farunissa (NurLuna@aol.com) wrote: Re: Subject Intelligence >"My own understanding" will *never* be the final authority in matters of spiritual truth, >regardless of how intelligent I am. Almost as if the mind lacks some fundamental sense >of the matter. It is through "my heart," with "all my heart," that trust in God is found; i.e., >the experience that God is all around me, in everything and everyone, in control of all >that happens, ever loving me, ever guiding me, ever watching over me. In my experience, >it is the heart that "knows" this, not the mind. On 9/29/95 Fouad Haddad of the Haqqani Trust translated the following from Hakim Tirmidhi's work, On Jihad Al Nafs (2/2), II. "Concerning the Welfare of the Heart and Its Remedies, and the Corruption of the Heart and Its Ills" >>The heart's strength lies in gnosis or internal knowledge (ma`rifa), >>reason (`aql), external knowledge (`ilm), understanding (fahm), >>intellect (dhihn), intelligence (fitna), memory (hafz), and the >>life in God. Joy in those things motivates the heart, strengthens >>it, and gives it life. -- It would seem that the Sufi usage of the term "heart" is not quite the same as that of Farunissa. It seems that the latter originally had to go against the dictates of "reason" in order to take a leap of faith and to discover God around her. I agree that for many of us this is often an important step. Nevertheless, the "reason" abandoned by Farunissa may not be of the same type which Tirmidhi reminds us strengthens the heart. Unlike Classical Sufism and traditional Islamic philsophy, it seems to me that most Western seekers tend to divide "heart" -- by which they usually mean sentiment and emotional feeling -- from the "mind" -- by which they usually mean reason deprived of intuition. I am not attributing this to Farunissa, however, her statement, as moving as it is, reminds me that this split still exists. With all due respect to Farunissa, who I am not suggesting is doing this -- the danger of polarizing "heart" and "mind" is that one may develop a form of devotion which is lacking in discimination and which (in itself) can lead to sentimental attachments which block a more fulifilled and balanced gnosis of God. It seems to me that both Love and Wisdom and needed. Asalumu Alaykum From tariqas-approval Mon Oct 2 07:15:57 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA05344; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 11:16:01 -0400 Received: from mail04.mail.aol.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA05303; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 11:15:58 -0400 Received: by mail04.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id LAA01145 for tariqas@world.std.com; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 11:15:57 -0400 Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 11:15:57 -0400 From: Jinavamsa@aol.com Message-Id: <951002111556_34391858@mail04.mail.aol.com> To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: Heart and Intelligence Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Abdlqadir, It is a tendency (Western world only? -- could be ....) to make a distinction between heart as compassion and feeling and emotion and romanticism, on the one hand, and mind as understanding and knowledge and distinction-making, as you point out. If so, there is the reintegration of this duality back through a balance of wisdom and compassion, as they say in Buddhism, ... into THEONE. in peace, Jinavamsa >AbdlqadirI@aol.com >Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com >Reply-to: tariqas@world.std.com >To: tariqas@world.std.com [in part] > >On 9/29/95 Farunissa (NurLuna@aol.com) wrote: > >Re: Subject Intelligence > ... >On 9/29/95 Fouad Haddad of the Haqqani Trust translated the following from >Hakim Tirmidhi's work, On Jihad Al Nafs (2/2), II. "Concerning the Welfare >of the Heart and Its Remedies, and the Corruption of the Heart and Its Ills" >... >...the danger of >polarizing "heart" and "mind" is that one may develop a form of devotion >which is lacking in discimination and which (in itself) can lead to >sentimental attachments which block a more fulifilled and balanced gnosis of >God. It seems to me that both Love and Wisdom and needed. > >Asalumu Alaykum >[AbdlqadirI] > From tariqas-approval Mon Oct 2 01:52:12 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA03437; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 11:52:23 -0400 Received: from netcom10.netcom.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA03407; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 11:52:20 -0400 Received: by netcom10.netcom.com (8.6.12/Netcom) id IAA13969; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 08:52:13 -0700 Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 08:52:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Steven Finkelman Subject: Re: Ghazali on Jihad al-nafs To: tariqas@world.std.com Cc: tariqas@world.std.com In-Reply-To: <199510020250.VAA03793@UNiX.asb.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: On Sun, 1 Oct 1995, Fouad Haddad wrote: --------snip --------------------------- > > > >>and about the person who controlled > >>the passion of his ego God says: "But as for him who feared to > >>stand before his Lord and restrained his soul from lust, Lo! The > >>garden will be his home" (79:40-41). > > > >What is the sort of fear of the Lord that is relevant here? I know the same > >language is used in the Old Testament/Tanakh ... > > > > <> is a hadith whose > wording is identical to a passage in Ecclesiates, I think. > As for the meaning, I have heard from my shaykh that the fear of > the believer is the fear of knowing oneself to be imperfect, > and therefore feeling fearful of standing before one's perfect Lord, > as in the hadith: < Lord (to be perfect).>> A (wo)man as (s)he exists at this moment in time and space, as it is here on the planet, could not be any other way than they are, at this moment. All events have lead to it and that is the reality of the situation at this moment. You have what you have when you have it, that's it. By acknowledging that's who you are, right now, and embracing it, is to love in reality, detached from the should be's and has been's and the if only I's. To look at the situation and accept it as it is, is to be able to fully own it, and fully feel it and make corrections, if you want to or go through the cycle again from time to time until you are tired of it and wake up. You can't change anything within you don't accept. If you have fear of knowing your situation, you are checking yourself out in relation to what you think you should be. If your living with 'should be's' Then you're in a situation where you are referencing your ego. That's seperation. That's nafs. To know this situation as is is, to be perfect is to accept where you have been put by the almighty. and to accept all of the gifts of the situation. that's being in Union. That's feeling and really knowing the perfection of the whole universe and God and everything. (Thanks to Joe Miller, who came in the middle of this and helped out.) > > >> > >>d) The Prophet (s) said: < >>ta`at Allah `azza wa jall>> [The fighter against unbelief is he > >>who fights against his ego in obeying God; Tirmidhi, Ibn Majah, > >>Ibn Hibban, Tabarani, Hakim, etc.]... Sufyan al-Thawri said: "I > >>never dealt with anything stronger against me than my own ego; it > >>was one time with me, and one time against me"... Yahya ibn > >>Mu`adh al-Razi said: "Fight against your ego with the four swords > >>of training: eat little, sleep little, speak little, and be > >>patient when people harm you... Then the ego will walk the paths > >>of obedience, like a fleeing horseman in the field of battle." > > > >These words on finding the personal self, the idea of "I" to be the key enemy > >reminds me of a text by Dharmarakshita, as brought to Tibet by his disciple > >Atisha (982-1054); it is as a key text in Tibetan Buddhism. What do you think > >of the parallel --- a refrain that is repeated ongoingly at the end of each > >stanza of this very long instructive poem is: > >Trample him, trample him, dance on the head > > Of this treacherous concept of selfish concern. > >Tear out the heart of this self-centred butcher > > Who slaughters our chance to gain final release. > >(from his The Wheel of Sharp Weapons) Hmmm, Why not instead of making war with it, get to know it, get to be really good friends with it, embrace it, accept it, love it, understand that it will lead you to a different place than you want to go, let it give you it's energy, then part company. > >>Blessings and Peace on the Prophet of Perfection, his Family, and > >>his Companions And all sentient beings in all times and all spaces, Hu. AriLeib Sadiq Hal > >>Fouad Haddad > >>Naqshbandi-Haqqani Foundation of Ahl al-Sunnat wal-Jama`at From tariqas-approval Mon Oct 2 02:04:39 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA13090; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 12:04:52 -0400 Received: from netcom10.netcom.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA13069; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 12:04:50 -0400 Received: by netcom10.netcom.com (8.6.12/Netcom) id JAA15092; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 09:04:44 -0700 Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 09:04:39 -0700 (PDT) From: Steven Finkelman Subject: Re: Heart and Intelligence To: tariqas@world.std.com In-Reply-To: <951002111556_34391858@mail04.mail.aol.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Hey J, It looks like I'm coming out that way in the next two to four weeks. Seems a school developed here and then they all went west to Sandi Ego. Miraculously there are some conscious people out there who I've gotten in contact with, who do the same workl as me. So at the very least I'll be going on a trip which will last a week or so. I'll probably also end up in LA for a short time too. Let me know how to find you.... AriLeib Now Hal and Sadiq From tariqas-approval Mon Oct 2 08:18:17 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA24167; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 12:18:52 -0400 Received: from mail04.mail.aol.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA24125; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 12:18:48 -0400 Received: by mail04.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id MAA26180 for tariqas@world.std.com; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 12:18:17 -0400 Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 12:18:17 -0400 From: NurLuna@aol.com Message-Id: <951002121816_114349795@mail04.mail.aol.com> To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: Heart and Intelligence Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Joy and Peace be with you, dears! In a message dated 95-10-02, Abdlqadir@aol.com wrote [in part]: >On 9/29/95 Fouad Haddad of the Haqqani Trust translated the following... > >>>The heart's strength lies in gnosis or internal knowledge (ma`rifa), >>>reason (`aql), external knowledge (`ilm), understanding (fahm), >>>intellect (dhihn), intelligence (fitna), memory (hafz), and the >>>life in God. Joy in those things motivates the heart, strengthens >>>it, and gives it life. -- > >It would seem that the Sufi usage of the term "heart" is not quite the same >as that of Farunissa. It seems that the latter originally had to go against >the dictates of "reason" in order to take a leap of faith and to discover God >around her. I agree that for many of us this is often an important step. > Nevertheless, the "reason" abandoned by Farunissa may not be of the same >type which Tirmidhi reminds us strengthens the heart. Unlike Classical Sufism >and traditional Islamic philsophy, it seems to me that most Western seekers >tend to divide "heart" -- by which they usually mean sentiment and emotional >feeling -- from the "mind" -- by which they usually mean reason deprived of >intuition. I too have noticed that there is not this black/white split between heart and mind in most non-Western traditions. I believe that's one reason why the West has increasingly begun to turn to Eastern and Middle-Eastern spirituality. God knows, we have much to learn! >...the danger of >polarizing "heart" and "mind" is that one may develop a form of devotion >which is lacking in discimination and which (in itself) can lead to >sentimental attachments which block a more fulifilled and balanced gnosis of >God. It seems to me that both Love and Wisdom and needed. Indeed, brother! God gave us both heart and mind, and both can be tools of Light when put in His Hands. Farrunnissa From tariqas-approval Mon Oct 2 10:51:49 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA15177; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 14:56:19 -0400 Received: from emout04.mail.aol.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA14974; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 14:56:11 -0400 Received: by emout04.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA27525 for tariqas@world.std.com; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 14:51:49 -0400 Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 14:51:49 -0400 From: Jinavamsa@aol.com Message-Id: <951002145148_34556977@emout04.mail.aol.com> To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: Ghazali on Jihad al-nafs Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: hello AriLeib ~ Sadiq ~ Hal re all of your post, I feel a bit like Nasruddin, wanting to say, "Definitely! You're right, too!" in peace, Jinavamsa > In a message dated 95-10-02 11:59:04 EDT, you write [excerpts follow]: > the reality of the situation at >this moment. You have what you have when you have it, that's it. By >acknowledging that's who you are, right now, and embracing it, is to love >in reality, detached from the should be's and has been's and the if only >I's. To look at the situation and accept it as it is, is to be able to >fully own it, and fully feel it and make corrections, if you want to or >go through the cycle again from time to time until you are tired of it >and wake up. > >You can't change anything within you don't accept. If you have fear of >knowing your situation, you are checking yourself out in relation to what >you think you should be. If your living with 'should be's' Then you're in a >situation where you are referencing your ego. That's seperation. That's nafs. > >To know this situation as is is, to be perfect is to accept where you >have been put by the almighty. and to accept all of the gifts of the >situation. that's being in Union. That's feeling and really knowing the >perfection of the whole universe and God and everything. > >(Thanks to Joe Miller, who came in the middle of this and helped out.) > > >> >> >> >> >>d) The Prophet (s) said: <> >>ta`at Allah `azza wa jall>> [The fighter against unbelief is he >> >>who fights against his ego in obeying God; Tirmidhi, Ibn Majah, >> >>Ibn Hibban, Tabarani, Hakim, etc.]... Sufyan al-Thawri said: "I >> >>never dealt with anything stronger against me than my own ego; it >> >>was one time with me, and one time against me"... Yahya ibn >> >>Mu`adh al-Razi said: "Fight against your ego with the four swords >> >>of training: eat little, sleep little, speak little, and be >> >>patient when people harm you... Then the ego will walk the paths >> >>of obedience, like a fleeing horseman in the field of battle." >> > >> >These words on finding the personal self, the idea of "I" to be the key >enemy >> >reminds me of a text by Dharmarakshita, as brought to Tibet by his >disciple >> >Atisha (982-1054); it is as a key text in Tibetan Buddhism. What do you >think >> >of the parallel --- a refrain that is repeated ongoingly at the end of >each > >> >stanza of this very long instructive poem is: >> >Trample him, trample him, dance on the head >> > Of this treacherous concept of selfish concern. >> >Tear out the heart of this self-centred butcher >> > Who slaughters our chance to gain final release. >> >(from his The Wheel of Sharp Weapons) > >Hmmm, Why not instead of making war with it, get to know it, get to be >really good friends with it, embrace it, accept it, love it, understand >that it will lead you to a different place than you want to go, let it >give you it's energy, then part company. > >> >>Blessings and Peace on the Prophet of Perfection, his Family, and >> >>his Companions >And all sentient beings in all times and all spaces, Hu. > >AriLeib >Sadiq >Hal > > > From tariqas-approval Mon Oct 2 10:56:22 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA15456; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 14:56:34 -0400 Received: from emout06.mail.aol.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA15365; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 14:56:25 -0400 Received: by emout06.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA21363 for tariqas@world.std.com; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 14:56:22 -0400 Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 14:56:22 -0400 From: Jinavamsa@aol.com Message-Id: <951002145621_34557165@emout06.mail.aol.com> To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Octagon press info Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Question: would anyone know the email address of Octagon Press in london, or of Iidries Shah, directly? thank you. in peace, Jinavamsa From tariqas-approval Mon Oct 2 11:24:15 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA13342; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 15:24:27 -0400 Received: from severn.wash.inmet.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA13294; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 15:24:24 -0400 Received: from wayne.wash.inmet.com by severn.wash.inmet.com (5.x/SMI-SVR4) id AA01601; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 15:24:15 -0400 Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 15:24:15 -0400 From: dlb@severn.wash.inmet.com (David Barton) Message-Id: <9510021924.AA01601@severn.wash.inmet.com> Received: by wayne.wash.inmet.com (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA29351; Mon, 2 Oct 95 15:24:14 EDT To: tariqas@world.std.com In-Reply-To: <951002145621_34557165@emout06.mail.aol.com> (Jinavamsa@aol.com) Subject: Re: Octagon press info Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Jinavamsa writes: Question: would anyone know the email address of Octagon Press in london, or of Iidries Shah, directly? thank you. The address of Octagon Press is: The Octagon Press, Ltd. P.O. Box 227 London, N6 4EW United Kingdom Idries Shah's home address is, of course, not given out publicly; however, a letter to the above address will be forwarded, as this is the universal practice of publishers. Each book distributed by publisher in the United States has a sticker that says: For further information on Sufi Studies please write: The Society for Sufi Studies Box 43 Los Altos, CA 94022 I assume that, in the States, this is a sufficient address for questions or comments concerning the material in Shah`s works. I hope this helps. Dave Barton <*> dlb@wash.inmet.com )0( From tariqas-approval Mon Oct 2 16:01:27 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA06388; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 20:01:30 -0400 Received: from mail04.mail.aol.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA06341; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 20:01:27 -0400 Received: by mail04.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id UAA27774 for tariqas@world.std.com; Mon, 2 Oct 1995 20:01:27 -0400 Date: Mon, 2 Oct 1995 20:01:27 -0400 From: SheikhDin@aol.com Message-Id: <951002200126_114702409@mail04.mail.aol.com> To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: [2] The Prophet's Journey Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Dear Brother Fouad Haddad, Asalaamu Aleikum! I pray that you are well by the Grace of the Almighty. I have been reading with great enjoyment the story of the Prophet's (saws) Journey as told by Sheikh Hisham Kabbani's <>, KAZI 1995. I am sorry that I have inadvertenly deleted the [part 1]. I would like to have the complete set. Would you so kindly send be the 1st part again. So as not to trouble the others, please send it to my personal e:mail address - sheikhdin@aol.com. Thanking you in advance for your kind attention. May Peace Be Upon You. Wa Aleikum Salaam wa Rahmatullah, Brotherly, Din From tariqas-approval Tue Oct 3 12:20:54 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA01564; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 06:21:18 -0400 Received: from tucana.dur.ac.uk by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA01544; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 06:21:09 -0400 Received: from venus.dur.ac.uk by tucana.dur.ac.uk id (8.6.12/ for dur.ac.uk) with SMTP; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 11:21:03 +0100 Received: from altair (altair.dur.ac.uk) by venus.dur.ac.uk; Tue, 3 Oct 95 11:21:00 BST Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 11:20:54 +0100 (BST) From: L J Fatoohi To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Arabic Directory on Sufi Tariqas Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Dear friends, =FD =FDWe are planning to compile a comprehensive ARABIC directory of current= =20 Sufi tariqas from all over the world. The directory is intended to=20 include all main Sufi tariqas as well as their branches. It will=20 introduce, in brief, the history and activities of each tariqa. We are=20 endeavoring to make this directory as comprehensive as possible by=20 consulting all accessible sources. Therefore, we would ask for your=20 kind and most appreciated cooperation in providing us with information=20 on your tariqa to cover the following entries of the directory: =FD =FD1- Name of tariqa =FD2- History since foundation =FD3- Activities =FD4- Publications and releases (books, journals, cassette and/or video=20 tapes,...etc.). =FD5- Any relevant photos of the Master, dhikr, ...etc. can also be=20 included. =FD =FDFor your convenience, you may provide literature that can be used for=20 extracting the required information. =FD =FDPlease send the information to the following address: =FD =FD=09Paramann Programme Labs =FD=09P.O. Box 310087 =FD=09Al-Mahatta =FD=09Amman 11131 =FD=09Jordan. =FD =FDIf you have any queries please let me know.=20 Thank you very much.=FD =FD Sincerely Louay =FD From tariqas-approval Tue Oct 3 06:23:14 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA27036; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 11:23:28 -0400 Received: from UNiX.asb.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA26946; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 11:23:24 -0400 Received: from sle1.asb.com (sle1.asb.com [165.254.128.71]) by UNiX.asb.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA01532 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 11:23:14 -0500 Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 11:23:14 -0500 Message-Id: <199510031623.LAA01532@UNiX.asb.com> X-Sender: f_haddad@unix.asb.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@world.std.com From: f_haddad@unix.asb.com (Fouad Haddad) Subject: [6] The Prophet's Journey X-Mailer: Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: [6] The Prophet's Journey ------------------------- Excerpt from Shaykh Hisham Kabbani's <>, KAZI 1995. The Fifth Paradise: Jannat al-Na`im The Prophet travelled for five hundred thousand light-years, after which he arrived at the fifth Paradise which is called Jannat al-Na`im: "the Garden of Beauty and Felicity." Its door is made of mixed gold and silver from heaven. Gabriel knocked at the door and a voice said: "Who is it?" "Gabriel, bringing the Prophet, Peace be upon him." "Has he been sent for?" "Yes." "Welcome, O Beloved one, to the fifth Paradise!" The door opened and the Prophet saw five beautiful ladies whose radiant light among their servants made them appear like diamonds surrounded by pearls. His heart was moved towards them. He asked Gabriel: "Who are these ladies?" He answered: "This is Eve, the mother of human beings, this is the Virgin Mary, the mother of Jesus, this is Moses' mother Yukabid, and this is Assia, the wife of Pharaoh." The fifth lady looked like a sun among stars. Her light shone over the rest of the inhabitants of that Paradise like a gentle breeze passing through the tree-leaves. Gabriel said: "This is an angel representing your daughter Fatima, O Prophet!" The Prophet asked: "Gabriel, what is the secret of this Paradise?" Gabriel said: "God created this Paradise to reflect the beauty and perfection of women. The light of this Paradise is the source of the angelic lights of all women on earth. Women have been created to carry the secret of creation in themselves. God has honored them greatly by making their wombs the repository of His word which represents the Spirit. He looks at the most sacred place and there descends His mercy and blessings. He perfected that place and covered it with three protective layers to shelter it from any damage. The first is a layer of light, the second a layer of love, and the third a layer of beauty. There he fashions and creates human beings after His likeness, as the Prophet said: 'God created Adam after His likeness.' He orders the angels of the womb to perfect His creation by giving the baby life, beauty, health, intelligence, and all kinds of perfect attributes that will make each one distinguished among human beings." "Women are not created weaker but more generous than men. They are created more beautiful and less fierce, as beauty hates to hurt and harm others. That is why they seem weak to people, but in reality they are not. Angels are the strongest of created beings, and women are closer to the angelic nature than men, as they are readier than men to carry angelic light. It is the good manners and ethics of spirituality which they carry which makes them less forceful than men. Even physically, however, they are extremely strong. They undergo great upheavals in their body without flinching for the sake of childbirth, and face the direst physical conditions more successfully than men because God has enabled them to insure the survival of generations." "God gave women five angelic qualities which men rarely have. They are the source of peace, as God said that He created them "so that ye might find rest in them" (30:21). This is the attribute of the first Paradise which is named "the Abode of Peace." They are oases of constancy in the midst of chaos and change. That is why they give birth as the mother nurtures and shelters the baby more reliably than the father. This is the attribute of the Second Paradise, which is named 'the Abode of Constancy.' They perpetuate generations. Through their offspring God creates angelic prophets and saints who establish His perpetual remembrance on earth as the angels establish it in Heaven. This is the attribute of the Third Paradise which is named 'the Abode of Eternity.' They are generous and bountiful. They are described as 'a fertile land' in all Scriptures because they give without counting, including life. They sacrifice themselves for the sake of another creation, and this is the attribute of the Fourth Paradise which is named 'the Sheltering Garden.' Finally, they are the source of Beauty. Through their softness and subtelty, God has crowned the earth with the diadem of angelic grace. This is the attribute of the Fifth Paradise which is named "the Garden of Beauty." From tariqas-approval Tue Oct 3 14:04:33 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA28498; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 14:04:33 -0400 Received: from juliet.logica.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA28435; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 14:04:29 -0400 Received: by juliet.logica.com; id TAA11569; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 19:04:28 +0100 Received: from carmen.logica.co.uk(158.234.8.100) by juliet.logica.com via smap (g3.0.3) id xma011565; Tue, 3 Oct 95 19:04:25 +0100 Received: from smtpmail.logica.com (mssmtp.logica.com [158.234.8.102]) by carmen.logica.co.uk (8.7.Beta.10/8.7.Beta.10) with SMTP id TAA00791 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 19:04:40 +0100 (BST) Received: by smtpmail.logica.com with Microsoft Mail id <30718932@smtpmail.logica.com>; Tue, 03 Oct 95 19:04:18 bst From: Otersen Mathias To: "'tariqasmail'" Subject: More about heart and intelligence. Date: Tue, 03 Oct 95 18:42:00 bst Message-Id: <30718932@smtpmail.logica.com> Encoding: 15 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Intuition forms the link between the heart and the mind. How could one else "Know" before one "Knows"? (The first "Know" relates to intuitively knowing something, the second reflects the knowing by proof). It's true that Westeners tend to regard intuition as something not related to intelligence. It's however common knowledge within "Mathematics" that in order to develop a theory one should have "some feeling" for the subject. So one start with some numeric experiments to gain intuitively some insights. Maybe all knowledge should start in the heart and be consolidated in the mind, (More or less the way Islam wanders) Matthias.W.Otersen From tariqas-approval Tue Oct 3 08:33:05 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA25250; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 14:32:34 -0400 Received: from cwis.unomaha.edu by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA25225; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 14:32:32 -0400 Received: by cwis.unomaha.edu (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA15088; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 13:33:05 -0500 Message-Id: <9510031833.AA15088@cwis.unomaha.edu> Subject: Re: [5] The Prophet's Journey To: tariqas@world.std.com Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 13:33:05 -0500 (CDT) From: Richard Bennett In-Reply-To: <199510011946.OAA02721@UNiX.asb.com> from "Fouad Haddad" at Oct 1, 95 02:46:27 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1265 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: 786 asalaam, dear fouad: thank you for the 5th part of the prophet's (sas) journey as told by your sheik. may i request the other four parts because i just joined the tariqas discussion group two days ago and missed the others. by the way i called sheik kabbani's house and i believe his daughter answered and said that he is traveling now and will, inshallah, be back sometime on thursday. i will inshallah try to call him then sometime in the morning. i want to ask his permission to visit him sometime during christmas vacation to talk about spiritual course. do you have any recommendations as to when to visit...perhaps you are more familliar with his schedule than i. i don't want to put your sheik into a diffucult position. by the way, i want to thank you for all of your input on the msa net... i feel that my contributions to the sufi position are hampered by my lack of ability to back up what i say. i don't have tha advantage of arabic language and all of the rich islamic knowledge and varied opinion that is available to a native speaker. in other works, if i cannot back up what i say then maybe i'd better be quiet till i can. take care and may allah bless you with his divineness/union. wasalaam, abdul ghani From tariqas-approval Tue Oct 3 15:21:51 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA05254; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 15:21:51 -0400 Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 15:21:51 -0400 Message-Id: <199510031921.AA05254@world.std.com> To: tariqas-approval@world.std.com From: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Subject: BOUNCE tariqas@world.std.com: Admin request Status: RO X-Status: >From 74252.13@compuserve.com Sat Oct 3 11:19:42 1995 Return-Path: <74252.13@compuserve.com> Received: from dub-img-2.compuserve.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA05212; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 15:21:49 -0400 Received: by dub-img-2.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) id PAA12233; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 15:21:48 -0400 Date: 03 Oct 95 15:19:42 EDT From: Tasnim Fernandez <74252.13@compuserve.com> To: "y'all" Subject: subscribe Message-Id: <951003191942_74252.13_BHR57-3@CompuServe.COM> please subscribe us, Tasnim Fernandez and Latifah. Thanks. From tariqas-approval Tue Oct 3 13:28:20 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA06170; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 17:28:24 -0400 Received: from mail06.mail.aol.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA06148; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 17:28:22 -0400 Received: by mail06.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id RAA12337 for tariqas@world.std.com; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 17:28:20 -0400 Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 17:28:20 -0400 From: Jinavamsa@aol.com Message-Id: <951003172820_115401989@mail06.mail.aol.com> To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: [5] The Prophet's Journey Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: many good ideas have been expressed by people who are not fluent in Arabic. God/Allah/Reality understands all languages equally well, no? (and, more specifically, the readers of Tariqas take English to be the basic language of conversation). in peace and in English, Jinavamsa In a message dated 95-10-03 14:38:44 EDT, you write: > >by the way, i want to thank you for all of your input on the msa net... i > >feel that my contributions to the sufi position are hampered by > >my lack of ability to back up what i say. i don't have tha advantage of > >arabic language and all of the rich islamic knowledge and varied opinion > >that is available to a native speaker. in other works, if i cannot back up > >what i say then maybe i'd better be quiet till i can. > >take care and may allah bless you with his divineness/union. > >wasalaam, > >abdul ghani > > From tariqas-approval Tue Oct 3 14:21:34 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA12061; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 19:21:41 -0400 Received: from UNiX.asb.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA12047; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 19:21:39 -0400 Received: from sle3.asb.com (sle3.asb.com [165.254.128.73]) by UNiX.asb.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA02865 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 19:21:34 -0500 Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 19:21:34 -0500 Message-Id: <199510040021.TAA02865@UNiX.asb.com> X-Sender: f_haddad@unix.asb.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@world.std.com From: f_haddad@unix.asb.com (Fouad Haddad) Subject: Re: [2] The Prophet's Journey X-Mailer: Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: >Dear Brother Fouad Haddad, Asalaamu Aleikum! > >I pray that you are well by the Grace of the Almighty. > >I have been reading with great enjoyment the story of the Prophet's (saws) >Journey as told by Sheikh Hisham Kabbani's <Perspective>>, KAZI 1995. >I am sorry that I have inadvertenly deleted the [part 1]. I would like to >have the complete set. Would you so kindly send be the 1st part again. So as >not to trouble the others, please send it to my personal e:mail address - >sheikhdin@aol.com. > >Thanking you in advance for your kind attention. May Peace Be Upon You. > >Wa Aleikum Salaam wa Rahmatullah, > >Brotherly, >Din > > Wa alaykum as-salam, Wallahi dear Brother SheikhDin, you made my day! :-) Thank you! Mail follows. Fouad Haddad From tariqas-approval Tue Oct 3 15:23:37 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA14501; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 20:23:49 -0400 Received: from UNiX.asb.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA14486; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 20:23:47 -0400 Received: from sle6.asb.com (sle6.asb.com [165.254.128.76]) by UNiX.asb.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA03415 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 20:23:37 -0500 Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 20:23:37 -0500 Message-Id: <199510040123.UAA03415@UNiX.asb.com> X-Sender: f_haddad@unix.asb.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@world.std.com From: f_haddad@unix.asb.com (Fouad Haddad) Subject: Re: [5] The Prophet's Journey X-Mailer: Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: >many good ideas have been expressed by people who are not fluent in Arabic. >God/Allah/Reality understands all languages equally well, no? (and, more >specifically, the readers of Tariqas take English to be the basic language of >conversation). >in peace and in English, >Jinavamsa > I believe Abdul Ghani meant to write privately. I know from previous correspondence that this is a personal issue for him. :-) Oh, how much more beautous doth beauty seem With that sweet ornament which truth doth give! (Shaykhspeare) Fouad From tariqas-approval Tue Oct 3 11:16:35 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA01147; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 21:55:34 -0400 Received: from homer05.u.washington.edu by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA01114; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 21:55:32 -0400 Received: by homer05.u.washington.edu (5.65+UW95.09/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id AA109458; Tue, 3 Oct 95 18:16:35 -0700 X-Sender: lilyan@homer05.u.washington.edu Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 18:16:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Lilyan Ila To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: [5] The Prophet's Journey In-Reply-To: <199510040123.UAA03415@UNiX.asb.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: salaams I share the frustration of not knowing Arabic, although feeling capable of expressing myself in English. This is because the sources are in Arabic, not because there is anything wrong with speaking one's own language. I'm trying to do better with the next generation - my daughter is beginning second year Arabic at the university and my sons are dragged kicking and screaming to their Arabic class each week while partaking of numerous unhealthy bribes! Lily From tariqas-approval Tue Oct 3 14:44:39 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA15764; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 00:50:28 -0400 Received: from relay2.UU.NET by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA15754; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 00:50:27 -0400 Received: from blob.best.net by relay2.UU.NET with SMTP id QQzjyh24207; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 00:50:26 -0400 From: informe@best.com Received: from [204.156.129.34] (informe.vip.best.com [204.156.129.34]) by blob.best.net (8.6.12/8.6.5) with SMTP id VAA24612 for ; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 21:44:39 -0700 Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 21:44:39 -0700 Message-Id: <199510040444.VAA24612@blob.best.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Forwarded from alt.islam.sufism Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: "To all those invested in the Sufi Order, I need to hear from you and of your path with Allah and how he has blessed you. Not many blessings have passed our way as of late so I need your free guidance from Allah. In the name of all that benefits humanity and spiritual as well as worldy growth please respond to my calling. In the name of Allah may you be blessed." Noor-un-Nisa (Please respond to noorunnisa@aol.com) (Hamza) From tariqas-approval Wed Oct 4 10:31:00 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA29815; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 04:35:53 -0400 Received: from ist.koc-unisys.com.tr by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA28694; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 04:33:00 -0400 Message-Id: <199510040833.AA28694@world.std.com> From: ctn@ist.koc-unisys.com.tr Date: Wed, 4 Oct 95 10:31 GMT To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: for Lili Re 5. Jorney. Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1229 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: [salaams ] [ ] [I share the frustration of not knowing Arabic, although feeling capable of ] [expressing myself in English. This is because the sources are in Arabic, ] [not because there is anything wrong with speaking one's own language. I'm ] [trying to do better with the next generation - my daughter is beginning ] [second year Arabic at the university and my sons are dragged kicking and ] [screaming to their Arabic class each week while partaking of numerous ] [unhealthy bribes! ] [ ] [Lily Essalamun Aleykum! Dear Lily, Thank you for expressing my feelings. I alslo share similar frustrations for the last 30 years. I dont agree with your idea of "speaking ones own language".If this is an international list we should respect with others and since we are using ascii chrs. its much easer to use a proper lang. for these chr.s" Aleykum Selam! From tariqas-approval Wed Oct 4 05:39:09 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA08803; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 10:39:32 -0400 Received: from UNiX.asb.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA08760; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 10:39:24 -0400 Received: from sle1.asb.com (sle1.asb.com [165.254.128.71]) by UNiX.asb.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA07929 for ; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 10:39:09 -0500 Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 10:39:09 -0500 Message-Id: <199510041539.KAA07929@UNiX.asb.com> X-Sender: f_haddad@unix.asb.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@world.std.com From: f_haddad@unix.asb.com (Fouad Haddad) Subject: [7] The Prophet's Journey X-Mailer: Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: [7] The Prophet's Journey ------------------------- Excerpt from Shaykh Hisham Kabbani's <>, KAZI 1995. The Sixth Paradise: Jannat `Adn The Prophet travelled again on the Buraq for five hundred thousand years. On his way to the Sixth Paradise which is called Jannat Adn: "the Garden of Eden," he saw nations and nations of saffron-colored angels standing on pedestals of pink marble. They had one thousand wings and on each wing there were one thousand faces. Each face had one thousand mouths saying: "Praise be to the Lord of Majesty and Splendor!" Gabriel knocked at the door of the Sixth Paradise which was made of aquamarine and gold. As usual, a voice asked from behind the door who was there and the answer was given: "Gabriel, bringing the Prophet, Peace be upon him." "Has he been sent for?" said the voice. "Yes," replied Gabriel. The door was opened. The Prophet entered and what he saw passed all imagination and all recorded books, all fabled accounts, all legends, all histories. Silent gold sat on stars of pearl. Under every pearl fifty thousand angels whirled in a lake of galaxies producing a heavenly sound like a million million birds humming on top of the buzzing of a million million bees. Everything is moving at the speed of light but at the same time everything is silent and still. Each angel spoke words of greetings to the Prophet at the same time in a different language but distinctly and without any clash one with the other. Their words were phrased in diadems and garlands of light which he wore one after the other on his head and around his neck. A huge angel named Semla'il appeared at the head of ten thousand processions of similar angels wearing a crown of multi-colored garnets and reciting praise of God in an angelic language which made each angel swoon and rise up in turn. These were the karubiyyun or cherubim: 'Those Brought Near.' No-one on earth can see them and live because of the intensity of their light which they borrow from the One they behold. The Prophet asked: "O Gabriel! what is this untarnished heavenly sound?" "O Prophet!" Gabriel answered, "this is the music of the angelic souls in the presence of their Lord trembling like a leaf, not daring to move or speak, awed and annihilated by perfection, yet vivified and moved by divine Light, rushing to the divine meeting and announcing your coming." The Prophet saw a honey-colored angel of astounding beauty and of yet even greater majesty so that his majesty overpowered his beauty. He had a long mane of hair and a long beard out of which light flashed like thunderbolts. He had a stern face and yet a child's eyes. His enormous chest seemed to heave like a dormant volcano under his shirt of heavenly brocade. When the Prophet enquired about him, Gabriel said: "This is your brother Moses. He is the one who prayed six times on the Mount of Sinai in order to be a simple servant in your Nation. He is the vanquisher of tyrants and the secret of his father Jacob. God wrote for him the character of a fiery servant. That is why he approached the burning bush and was not afraid when His Lord wanted to speak to him." Moses was crying and he said to the Prophet: "O Prophet of the Last Nation! Intercede for me and my people." The Prophet said: "Why are you crying, O my brother Moses?" He replied: "I cry for love of you and for the great honor where God has raised you and made your nation countless people and other nations very few, even mine. O Muhammad! you are the seal of prophets and the light of creation. God is raising you today to His presence, to a station where no-one can reach. Remember me there as God made you the intercessor for all human beings including prophets, from Adam to Jesus. Then he recited: "O Prophet sprung from Hashim's line, Lover of Him Who is lauded above, Sealer of every book revealed to mankind. Opener of treasured knowledge sublime Who mounted the Buraq to ascend to his Lord, The God in Whose presence none before had remained, Approach that place where only angels draw near O Messenger of God before whom winds and clouds move And lay open clear myriad paths to celestial light. For your intercession human souls plead and yearn, O Prophet at whose sight angels delight! It is you for whom Paradise was made and adorned, For you the lote-tree of farthest limit is made to stand And bear the fruit of compassion in every land. O beloved Muhammad, may God grant us to be Always numbered in your noble band." The Seventh Paradise: Jannat al-Firdaws The Prophet arrived at the Seventh paradise whose roof touches the Heavenly Throne and whose name is Jannat al-Firdaws, after a travel of five hundred thousand light-years. He knocked at the door which was made of pure emerald, topaz, beryl, and gold. After he entered he saw another gate of light. From it came the praise of nations of hidden angels at whose sight one would die of awe because of their intense beauty. Their laud was simply: "Praise be to the Creator of Light!" Beyond this it is not permitted to speak about them. The Prophet greeted them with the greeting of peace and proceeded past the gate of gold to a dome of light which encompassed all the previous heavens, although the distance he had travelled between the sixth and the seventh heaven was the same as that between each two of the other layers of Paradise. Inside the dome the Prophet saw an angelic being which resembled him in every fashion and who was leaning against a wall of white silk which seemed to move like a waterfall and yet stand firm. The Prophet asked who that was and Gabriel said: "This is your grandfather Abraham, the leader of the pure of heart and a great one among prophets." Abraham said: "Welcome to the pious son and the perfected Prophet!" Around Abraham stood crowned angels. Each of their crowns contained four hundred diamonds, each worth more than what the entire earth contains. At their service stood throngs of angels crowned with the light of the previous angels and all were reading the Verse of the Throne. Gabriel said: "This is the verse that keeps the universe firm in the balance. This is the secret of the order of Creation." And the angels recited: God! There is no God save Him, the Alive, the Eternal, Neither slumber nor sleep overtaketh him. Unto him belongeth whatsoever is in the heavens and whatsoever is in earth. Who is he that intercedeth with him save by His leave? He knoweth that which is in front of them And that which is behind them, While they encompass nothing of His knowledge Save what He will. His Throne includeth the heavens and the earth, And He is never weary of preserving them. He is the Sublime, the Tremendous. (2:255) Circumambulating the building against which Abraham leaned, the entire universes, the throngs of angels of the seven heavens, the angels of mercy and the angels of wrath, the angels of beauty, the angels brought near, the great and the small angels, the visible and the invisible angels, and all the human beings whose angelic souls had been purified and elevated to the divine presence, the prophets, the truthful saints, the martyrs, the righteous, all of creation whirled and turned in the same direction as every heavenly body, counterclockwise, around the Kaaba of the heavens. The Prophet said: "O Gabriel, How wondrous are the incredible marvels of my Lord!" And Gabriel replied: "O Muhammad! you have seen only a glimpse of the wonders of God." From tariqas-approval Wed Oct 4 17:10:08 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA06360; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 11:14:06 -0400 Received: from uctmail.uct.ac.za by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA06214; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 11:13:57 -0400 Received: by uctmail.uct.ac.za (Smail3.1.29.1 #12) id m0t0VW4-0004SyC; Wed, 4 Oct 95 17:13 GMT Message-Id: Received: by uctmail.uct.ac.za (Mort 1.42) id 376 from CHEMPATH; Wed Oct 4 17:13:51 1995 From: "Abduraman Mohamed (res ass)" To: tariqas@world.std.com Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 17:10:08 UTC-2 Subject: Dhikrulaah Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.22 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: As Salaam mu alaikum, Here follows a short summary of an article, Dhikr, which I have read including some of my personal experiences in Dhikr. The word Dhikr means to remember or to recall. We are commanded by Allah in the Holy Quraan to remember Him. "Those who believe, and whose hearts find satisfaction in the Remembrance of Allah:for without doubt in the Remembrance of Allah (Dhikrulaah) do hearts find satisfaction..." Quraan: Surah 13,verse 28. Dhikr unites one's mind with its source (i.e. Allah).Dhikr which is actually the Remembrance of Allah(S.W.T.), gives satisfaction to the heart; This satisfaction is an internal experience of the mind, heart and soul. It is narrated by certain Walies(Karaamats) and Sahabas that the soul benefits tremendously from Dhikr. Every name of Allah is a secret and sacred formula for the problems of the stresses of this life. Dhikr requires concentration of the mind. That is obtained by making the Niyat(intention) viz. to Dhikr for the Love of Allah(S.W.T.). It can happen that the final goal can be a mystical experience. The unseen world is the real world;By performing the Salaah and Dhikr regularly we are expressing our willingness to explore the unseen levels of our bodies. The value of ones Dhikr depends on the quality of attention, which in turn depends on the quality of intention (niyat). One might ask how is it possible to keep your attention focussed on the Dhikr? My answer is (from my experience. Because at first I battled to concentrate.) regular Dhikr and with time one will be able to master the art of concentration. After being able to concentrate the result will be that the mind will perform the Dhikr automatically. As long as one is absorbed in the Remembrance of Allah(Dhikr) there is little chance for Satanic temptations. It is the safest refuge from Shaytaan. May Allah(S.W.T.) guide us constantly. Was Salaam mu alaikum. >From Abduraman Mohamed. From tariqas-approval Wed Oct 4 07:22:23 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA12718; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 11:54:30 -0400 Received: from relay2.UU.NET by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA12671; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 11:54:26 -0400 Received: from finnegan.EE.McGill.CA by relay2.UU.NET with SMTP id QQzjzz21837; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 11:51:41 -0400 Received: from organian.EE.McGill.CA (oudghiri@Organian.EE.McGill.CA [132.206.62.6]) by finnegan.EE.McGill.CA (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id LAA23041 for ; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 11:22:25 -0400 From: Oudghiri Houria Received: by organian.EE.McGill.CA (8.6.12) id LAA07993; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 11:22:23 -0400 Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 11:22:23 -0400 Message-Id: <199510041522.LAA07993@organian.EE.McGill.CA> To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: [5] The Prophet's Journey Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Hi, I joined the tariqas discussion group yesterday and I am very interested in having the first part of the prophet's journey. I got yesterday the description of the three last kinds of paradise. Since I don't know who sent them, I am sending this mail to all the group. Thanks in advance to the concerned person. Best regards to all the discussion group. Houria. From tariqas-approval Wed Oct 4 03:56:38 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA29148; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 13:56:53 -0400 Received: from netcom12.netcom.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA29105; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 13:56:50 -0400 Received: by netcom12.netcom.com (8.6.12/Netcom) id KAA14997; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 10:56:39 -0700 Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 10:56:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Steven Finkelman Subject: Re: for Lili Re 5. Jorney. To: tariqas@world.std.com Cc: tariqas@world.std.com In-Reply-To: <199510040833.AA28694@world.std.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: > > Thank you for expressing my feelings. > I alslo share similar frustrations for the last 30 years. I dont agree with your idea of "speaking ones own language".If this is an international list we should respect with others and since we are using ascii chrs. its much easer to use a proper lang. for these chr.s" > > Aleykum Selam! > Salam, I am in agreement that the language barrier is frustrating, however it is a perfect oppeortunity for going beyond oneself and learning the language. Whenever I dig deeper I learn something new. It is an opportunity to stop, look up the words and pay attnntion to the roots of the words. there is gold in it. I have occasions where i have impotrant messages for those who come, not everyone understands my native language. In going and using langage familiar to the other, the beloved, the messages get to where they need to go. AriLeib From tariqas-approval Wed Oct 4 15:39:23 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA17333; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 19:39:26 -0400 Received: from dns.worldweb.net by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA17287; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 19:39:23 -0400 Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 19:39:23 -0400 Message-Id: <199510042339.AA17287@world.std.com> Received: from line165.worldweb.net by dns.worldweb.net with SMTP; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 19:43:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Sender: jmccaig@worldweb.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@world.std.com From: James McCaig Subject: Re: [5] The Prophet's Journey Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: At 11:22 AM 10/4/95 -0400, you wrote: > >Hi, > >I joined the tariqas discussion group yesterday and I am very interested in having the first part of the prophet's journey. I got yesterday the description of the three last kinds of paradise. > >Since I don't know who sent them, I am sending this mail to all the group. > >Thanks in advance to the concerned person. > >Best regards to all the discussion group. > >Houria. Welcome to the group! Maharaj James McCaig | Sufi Center of Washington Brotherhood/Sisterhood Representative | Keepers of Sufi Center Bookstore United States | http://guess.worldweb.net/sufi jmccaig@worldweb.net From tariqas-approval Wed Oct 4 11:46:31 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA24325; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 20:45:49 -0400 Received: from acad1.cc.uleth.ca by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA24280; Wed, 4 Oct 1995 20:45:44 -0400 Received: by hg.uleth.ca (MX V4.1 VAX) id 124; Wed, 04 Oct 1995 18:46:31 MST Date: Wed, 04 Oct 1995 18:46:31 MST From: pavlna@hg.uleth.ca To: tariqas@world.std.com Message-Id: <00997612.2F77C0DF.124@hg.uleth.ca> Subject: Ilhamdulillah Rubb il 'Alimen Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: A I have been Muslim now for four and one half years and in that time have experienced many different things. The book which heavily drew me to more seriously look at the way of Islam was an English translation of al-Asma' al-Husna by Imam Ghazzali and so I suppose you could say that I was drawn to the ways of Sufism from the beginning. My problem/concern is that I have grown up in a multi-cultural country and have friends of many different religious groups. As well, i am a student of Religious Studies and after studying quite heavily the scriptures of Hinduism and Buddhism as well as doing work on Taoism, and Native American Spirituality, I recognize in these paths a portion of the Truth that has been promised to all nations by Allah (SWT) in the Qur'an (i.e. the statement that each nation has been sent a messenger). This rather liberal view does not wash generally well with people of the more Orthodox persuasion, and thus I have little contact with other Muslims (I live in a small town as well). By concentrating on the Way of the Heart, Sufism seems a more natural, less judgemental manner to approaching religion and religious difference. In a world such as we now live, COMPASSION is the thing that is most needed. Personally, I see the Qur'an as the quintessential book of Truth and it is the basis of my faith. It is also al-Furquan, and as such I use it as a criterion to judge between what is truthful or false in other religious texts. If learning to be more kind and merciful to others through a close reading of Shantideva's Guide to the Bodhisattva Way of Life is wrong, or an improper methodology for doing the will of Allah, I would like to know how. Did the Prophet (SAWS) not say that Allah will not show mercy to he who is not merciful to Allah's creatures. I am interested in any comments on this subject and would heartily appreciate feedback from any fellow seekers who are well versed in the scriptures and paths of other religions. I pray my message is understood as I am not used to communicating through this medium. May Allah (SWT) guide and bless us all. Salaam Alaikum wa Rahmat Allah wa Barakatuhu Natalie A. Pavlis From tariqas-approval Wed Oct 4 21:02:03 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA09730; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 01:02:05 -0400 Received: from emout05.mail.aol.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA09722; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 01:02:03 -0400 Received: by emout05.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id BAA26264 for tariqas@world.std.com; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 01:02:03 -0400 Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 01:02:03 -0400 From: Jinavamsa@aol.com Message-Id: <951005010202_116593313@emout05.mail.aol.com> To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: Ilhamdulillah Rubb il 'Alimen Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: welcome Natalie, ah for your balance between understanding and caring! may compassion and caring for all creatures (all sentient beings) become first nature to all, in peace, Jinavamsa In a message dated 95-10-04 21:14:51 EDT, you write: > By concentrating on the >Way of the Heart, Sufism seems a more natural, less judgemental manner >to approaching religion and religious difference. In a world such as >we now live, COMPASSION is the thing that is most needed. > Personally, I see the Qur'an as the quintessential book of Truth >and it is the basis of my faith. It is also al-Furquan, and as such I >use it as a criterion to judge between what is truthful or false in other >religious texts. If learning to be more kind and merciful to others >through a close reading of Shantideva's Guide to the Bodhisattva Way of >Life is wrong, or an improper methodology for doing the will of >Allah, I would like to know how. Did the Prophet (SAWS) not say that >Allah will not show mercy to he who is not merciful to Allah's creatures. > I am interested in any comments on this subject and would heartily >appreciate feedback from any fellow seekers who are well versed in the >scriptures and paths of other religions. I pray my message is >understood as I am not used to communicating through this medium. >May Allah (SWT) guide and bless us all. > Salaam Alaikum wa Rahmat Allah wa Barakatuhu > Natalie A. Pavlis > > > From tariqas-approval Thu Oct 5 05:44:53 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA11241; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 05:44:53 -0400 Received: from juliet.logica.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA11232; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 05:44:51 -0400 Received: by juliet.logica.com; id KAA23733; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 10:44:49 +0100 Received: from carmen.logica.co.uk(158.234.8.100) by juliet.logica.com via smap (g3.0.3) id xma023705; Thu, 5 Oct 95 10:44:24 +0100 Received: from smtpmail.logica.com (mssmtp.logica.com [158.234.8.102]) by carmen.logica.co.uk (8.7.Beta.10/8.7.Beta.10) with SMTP id KAA12595 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 10:44:38 +0100 (BST) Received: by smtpmail.logica.com with Microsoft Mail id <3073B6FF@smtpmail.logica.com>; Thu, 05 Oct 95 10:44:15 bst From: Otersen Mathias To: "'tariqasmail'" Subject: Nothing wrong! Date: Thu, 05 Oct 95 09:52:00 bst Message-Id: <3073B6FF@smtpmail.logica.com> Encoding: 19 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Assalamu Alaikum Natalie, There's nothing wrong with Shantideva's Bodhicarvayatara (The way to Buddhahood). It's however hard for the avarage muslim to understand it for Buddhistic Philosophy arose out a very different culture and religious understanding. You're right in not following the more orthodox path. And although other's on this list won't agree on this I believe that the truth in the Ko'ran can be found in many different religions. If you like to talk more about this, be sure to drop a note at my adress: mao@lbvwrda.logica.com.nl wa salaam, Matthias. From tariqas-approval Fri Oct 6 07:01:38 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA27822; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 07:17:55 -0400 Received: from yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA27773; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 07:17:41 -0400 Received: from localhost (darice@localhost) by yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (8.6.4/8.6.4) id VAA20279; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 21:17:36 +1000 Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 21:01:38 +1000 (EST) From: Fred Rice Subject: Re: Nothing wrong! To: tariqas@world.std.com In-Reply-To: <3073B6FF@smtpmail.logica.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Assalamu alaikum, On Thu, 5 Oct 1995, Otersen Mathias wrote: > > You're right in not following the more orthodox path. And although other's > on this list won't agree on this I believe that the truth in the Ko'ran can > be found in many different religions. I can't speak for everyone on the list, of course, but I think probably most on this list (particularly Muslims) would agree that aspects of the truth in the Qur'an can be found in other religions. I think one verse Natalie referred to in her message was Qur'an 10:47, which says: "To every people (was sent) an apostle..." which means that God sent Prophets to all people on the earth -- to India, to China, to the American Indians, to the Australian Aborigines, etc. "Every people" had a Prophet -- thus Buddha, Lao Tzu, etc., could have been Prophets of God. In my own investigations, I personally can say I have had some experience of the truth in Taoism and Zen Buddhism (even though I was raised, and still am, a Muslim). Another relevent verse is 2:62 (and a similar one at 5:72), which says: "Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians, - any who believe in God and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve." The essence of this verse is that there are people who are not formally "Muslims" in this world who may be on the right path -- all they need to do are (1) believe in God, (2) believe in the "Last Day" (i.e. that they will be responsible for their actions and deeds), and (3) do good works. So Islam, when studied properly and embraced fully, is very embracing of people of other faiths! I think all Sufis (of whatever school) know and follow this; unfortunately, a number of Muslims I have found, in my experience, try to make excuses so they don't have to accept this verse in its true meaning. However, on the other hand, there are also many Muslims who are not Sufis who do accept this verse in its full meaning, so it is not safe to generalize about this. Wassalam, Fred Rice (Translations from the Qur'an are from Yusuf Ali's translation.) From tariqas-approval Thu Oct 5 06:37:53 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA28690; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 11:38:13 -0400 Received: from UNiX.asb.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA28549; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 11:38:05 -0400 Received: from sle5.asb.com (sle5.asb.com [165.254.128.75]) by UNiX.asb.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA00955 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 11:37:53 -0500 Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 11:37:53 -0500 Message-Id: <199510051637.LAA00955@UNiX.asb.com> X-Sender: f_haddad@unix.asb.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To: tariqas@world.std.com From: f_haddad@unix.asb.com (Fouad Haddad) Subject: [8] The Prophet's Journey X-Mailer: Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: [8] The Prophet's Journey ------------------------- Excerpt from Shaykh Hisham Kabbani's <>, KAZI 1995. The Lote-Tree of the Furthest Boundary The Prophet and Gabriel travelled once more until they reached the absolute limit of the created intellect, named sidrat al-muntaha: "The Lote-Tree of the Furthest Boundary." There they saw nothing which the tongue could describe. The effect of the sight they beheld on the Prophet is a secret which took place in his heart. A sound came to them from above which dissipated some of the Prophet's astonishment. At that time he saw a large tree which does not resemble any of the trees of Paradise, a tree without description, covering all the Paradises, heavens, and universes. The trunk of the Tree was a huge angel named Samrafil. The Prophet could see nothing else besides it. It grew from an infinite, unimaginable, indescribable ocean of musk. The tree had an infinite number of branches, created from a heavenly element that has no name in a created language. The distance between one branch and another was five hundred thousand light-years. On every branch there was an infinite number of leaves. If all the created universes were placed on a single one of these leaves they would disappear, like an atom disappears inside an ocean of water. On every leaf sat a huge angel in a multi-colored light. On his head was a crown of light and in his hand a staff of light. Written on their forehead was the inscription: "We are the inhabitants of the Lote-Tree." Their praise was: "Praise be to God Who has no end." Their names are the sarufiyyun or Seraphim, "The Secret Ones," because they are created from the absolute secret of their Lord. From the trunk of the tree four absolute springs issued. The first was a pure, transparent, crystal water; the second was a river of white milk; the third was a river of pleasurable, untarnished wine that elevates without abasing; the fourth was a river of pure honey mixed with gold. Inside the trunk was the prayer-niche of Gabriel, and his constant words of praise are: Allahu Akbar: God is Great! Allahu Akbar: God is Great! to which the reply always comes from above: Ana Akbar: I am Greater! Ana Akbar: I am Greater! Then Gabriel entered his prayer-niche and he called for the prayer. All the seraphim stood in rows and the Prophet led them in prayer. The prayer finished and all the seraphim were ordered to give their greetings to the Prophet one after the other. After this, a great angel came out from behind Gabriel's prayer-niche and asked the Prophet to approach. The Prophet and Gabriel entered the trunk of the tree and reached in a glance the entire sight of creation. On the top of the tree they saw Adam and Eve and Noah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus, and all the other prophets whom they had just visited. With them they saw all their respective nations, sitting with them in spirit together with those of the Prophet's nation who had already left this world. All were sitting there together, happy, basking in the love and beauty of their Lord's mercy and praising Him. That Lote-Tree carries the knowledge of all of God's creation from the beginning of its sequence in time. Whatever is created is part of it and contained in it. It was called the tree "of the furthermost boundary" because everything ends in it and after it begins a new life. God decorated it with the light of His own essence. It has three characteristics: a continuous shade of light extending over every creation, a continuous pleasure reaching everyone from the fruit of its branches, and a continuous fragrance from its flowers scenting with beauty the life of creation. Then the Prophet and Gabriel moved forward. A stern and severe angel appeared and covered the horizon before them. Gabriel said: "O Prophet! this is the angel of death Azra'il." The angel of death said: "Welcome, O Muhammad! you who bear goodness, and welcome to all the Prophets and their nations. This is the place from which I gaze at the destinies of every person and seize the spirits of those whom I am commanded to bring to eternal life." The Prophet asked: "Tell me how you take the souls of the dying." The angel of death revealed to the Prophet: "When God orders me to take the spirit of a human being at the last hour of his life and the first hour of his afterlife, I send to him my deputies who carry with them the smell of Paradise and a branch from the tree of paradise which they put between his eyes. When that sweet smell reaches him and he catches a glimpse of that heavenly branch, his spirit is attracted and his soul begins to ascend to paradise, until it reaches his throat. At that time, I descend from my place and I take his spirit with the greatest care, because God wants this moment to be easy on His servant. I then carry his soul to Paradise. On the way, whenever I pass by angels, then angels will greet this soul and salute it until it reaches the presence of its Lord. God the Exalted says to that soul at that time: "Welcome to the good spirit which I created and placed in a good body! O my angels! write the upper layer of Paradise as a reward for that person." Then angels take him up to Paradise, where he will see what God has prepared for him and he will be happy to stay there. However, God orders the spirit to go back to his body on earth, where he can see the people washing him, crying for him, and all those who love him standing around him until they take the body to the grave. There the soil says to him: "Welcome, O my beloved one! I was always yearning for you when you were above me. Now you are in me and I will show you what I am going to give you." Immediately, his grave will be enlarged beyond sight, until the two angels of the grave come and ask him about his Lord and about his belief. He will give them the correct answers by God's permission. At that time they will open for him a door leading to Paradise and his spirit will go back upward to the same place where God first called him to His presence." "I remember when death had separated us. I consoled myself with the thought of the Beloved Prophet. I said: All of us go on this way one day. Who does not die today, he will die tomorrow. Be happy, O my soul, because your Lord is waiting for you And the beloved one is calling you." Then Gabriel moved forward another five hundred thousand light-years, mounted on the Buraq, until they reached a place where Gabriel began to slow down. The Prophet said: "O Gabriel! why are you slowing down? Are you leaving me?" Gabriel replied: "I cannot go further." The Prophet said: "Gabriel, don't leave me alone." "O Muhammad!" Gabriel said, "you now have to step down from the Buraq and move to a place which no-one has entered before you." At that moment the Buraq stopped and was unable to move further. The Prophet stepped down and moved hesitantly. Gabriel said: "O Prophet, move forward without fear. If I were to continue with you I would be annihilated for the greatness of the Light." The Prophet moved, and moved, and moved. He saw Michael standing ahead of him, afraid and trembling. The light of his face was changing quickly from one color to another. The Prophet asked: "Michael, is this your station?" "Yes," Michael answered, "and if I were to trespass it I would be annihilated. But you go on and don't stop." The Prophet moved, and moved, and moved. Then he found Israfil with his four huge wings, one of which covered his face to veil him from the light which came from the horizon of everything. The Prophet asked him: "Is this your station, Israfil?" Israfil said, "Yes. If I trespassed it that light would burn me. But you move on and do not fear." And the Prophet moved, and moved, and moved. He saw the Spirit to whom God gave the power of earth and the heavens. From the top of his head to the bottom of his feet and from every cell of his there were faces with traits of subtle light, the number of which no-one=7F knows but God, and from the each of which God creates an angel-spirit which looks like the Spirit, whom He then takes to himself as the spirit-angels of the Divine Presence. Every day the Spirit looks into hell three times, and because of the cool light of his angelic gaze the fire of hell melts until it becomes as a rainbow. The Spirit also looks into Paradise three times every day and extends to it the divine light which God gives him. If God gathered the tears of the eyes of the Spirit it would flood all the created universes and make Noah's flood seem like the drop gathered by an needle dipped into the ocean. This is the Spirit whom God mentioned in the Koran: "The day when the Spirit and the angels rise, no-one shall speak except with permission from His Lord." The Prophet said: "O Spirit! is this your station?" The spirit replied: "Yes, and if I trespass it I will be annihilated by the light which I am receiving. O Muhammad! move forward and do not be afraid. You are invited and you have permission." The Prophet moved forward. God inspired his heart with the following discourse: "I the Lord, have veiled myself from the inhabitants of Paradise, as I have veiled myself from the inhabitants of the earth. As I veiled Myself from their minds, I veiled myself from their vision. I am never in anything, and I am never away from anything." From tariqas-approval Thu Oct 5 06:46:13 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA05207; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 11:46:29 -0400 Received: from UNiX.asb.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA05123; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 11:46:23 -0400 Received: from sle5.asb.com (sle5.asb.com [165.254.128.75]) by UNiX.asb.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA01045 for ; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 11:46:13 -0500 Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 11:46:13 -0500 Message-Id: <199510051646.LAA01045@UNiX.asb.com> X-Sender: f_haddad@unix.asb.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@world.std.com From: f_haddad@unix.asb.com (Fouad Haddad) Subject: Re: Nothing wrong! X-Mailer: Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: As-salamu alaykum. Fred Rice wrote an excellent, comprehensive reply (see below). Thank you! Fouad Haddad Naqshbandi-Haqqani Foundation > >Assalamu alaikum, > >On Thu, 5 Oct 1995, Otersen Mathias wrote: >> >> You're right in not following the more orthodox path. And although other's >> on this list won't agree on this I believe that the truth in the Ko'ran can >> be found in many different religions. > >I can't speak for everyone on the list, of course, but I think probably >most on this list (particularly Muslims) would agree that aspects of the >truth in the Qur'an can be found in other religions. > >I think one verse Natalie referred to in her message was >Qur'an 10:47, which says: > >"To every people (was sent) an apostle..." > >which means that God sent Prophets to all people on the earth -- to >India, to China, to the American Indians, to the Australian Aborigines, >etc. "Every people" had a Prophet -- thus Buddha, Lao Tzu, etc., >could have been Prophets of God. In my own investigations, I personally >can say I have had some experience of the truth in Taoism and Zen >Buddhism (even though I was raised, and still am, a Muslim). > >Another relevent verse is 2:62 (and a similar one at 5:72), which says: > >"Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish >(scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians, - any who believe in >God and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward >with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve." > >The essence of this verse is that there are people who are not formally >"Muslims" in this world who may be on the right path -- all they need >to do are (1) believe in God, (2) believe in the "Last Day" (i.e. that >they will be responsible for their actions and deeds), and (3) do good >works. So Islam, when studied properly and embraced fully, is very >embracing of people of other faiths! I think all Sufis (of whatever >school) know and follow this; unfortunately, a number of Muslims I >have found, in my experience, try to make excuses so they don't have to >accept this verse in its true meaning. However, on the other hand, >there are also many Muslims who are not Sufis who do accept this verse >in its full meaning, so it is not safe to generalize about this. > >Wassalam, > >Fred Rice > >(Translations from the Qur'an are from Yusuf Ali's translation.) > > From tariqas-approval Thu Oct 5 14:59:50 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA16263; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 20:00:56 -0400 Received: from UNiX.asb.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA16243; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 20:00:54 -0400 Received: from sle7.asb.com (sle7.asb.com [165.254.128.77]) by UNiX.asb.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA04958; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 19:59:50 -0500 Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 19:59:50 -0500 Message-Id: <199510060059.TAA04958@UNiX.asb.com> X-Sender: f_haddad@unix.asb.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@world.std.com From: f_haddad@unix.asb.com (Fouad Haddad) Subject: On Surat al-Kawthar Cc: msa@htm3.ee.queensu.ca X-Mailer: Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: ON SURAT AL-KAWTHAR (ABUNDANCE) =============================== [Koran 108] Pickthall: <> The following is a translated excerpt from the Tafsir (Commentary) of al-Khazin (d. 725 H.) on this surat in <> al-matba`a al-`amira, 1320 H. 6:580. Al-Kawthar is a river in Paradise (al-Jannat) which God gave to Muhammad, Blessings and Peace be upon him (s). It is said also that the Kawthar is the Glorious Qur'an. Also: prophecy, the Book, and wisdom. Also: the abundance of his followers and Community. Also: abundant good (al-khayr al-kathir), as Ibn `Abbas has explained. Abu Bushr relates the latter from Sa`eed Ibn Jubayr, who related it from Ibn `Abbas. Abu Bushr said: "I told Ibn Jubayr: Some people say that it means a river in paradise. He replied: the River in Paradise is part of the abundant good which God gave him." The linguistic root of Kawthar is "faw`al" which denotes abundance. The Arabs named "kawthar" everything which came in abundance, or in great numbers, or of superlative value and importance. It is said that the "kawthar" also means the abundant favors which God gave all creation. And all these explanations enter into God's gifts to the Prophet (s), which are: prophecy (nubuwwa), the Book (al-kitab), wisdom (hikmat), knowledge (`ilm), intercession (shafa`at), the Pond or Watering-Place in Paradise (al-hawd al-mawrud), the Praiseworthy Station (al-maqam al-mahmud), an abundant following, Islam and its proclamation- and-ascendancy (izharihi) over all religions, victory over his enemies and a great number of conquests in his own time and after it, until the Day of Resurrection. And the best explanation concerning the Kawthar is the one on which the majority of scholars concur, namely that it is a river in Paradise, as was made clear in the Traditions (hadith). Muslim relates on the authority of Anas: "As we were behind the Prophet (s) on a certain day he nodded off awhile. Then he raised his head and smiled. We said: What made you smile, O Messenger of God? He said: A surat was revealed to me previously (anifan). He then recited: Bismillah ir-Rahman ir-Raheem Inna a`taynaka al-Kawthar Fa salli li rabbika wa anHar Inna shani'aka huwa al-abtar, then he said: Do you know what is the Kawthar? We replied: God and His Messenger know best. He said: Verily it is a river (nahrun) which my Lord of Might and Majesty has promised me, a great good (khayrun kathirun), it is a pond (hawd) where my Community shall drink, and its vessels number as the stars in heaven. I will see someone grieving (in deprivation of it) and I will say: O my Lord, he is one of my Community! And God will say: Don't you know what he has brought after you?" Bukhari relates on the authority of Anas: "The Prophet (s) said: When I was brought up to heaven (on the Night of ascension) a river was shown to me encompassed with spacious domes of marble. I said: What is this, O Gabriel? He said: This is the Kawthar which your Lord has given you, and its river-banks are musk." Blessings and Peace on the Prophet of Overabundance, his Family, and his Companions. Fouad Haddad Naqshbandi-Haqqani Foundation URL: http://www.best.com/~informe/mateen/haqqani.html [in 9 languages] From tariqas-approval Fri Oct 6 02:09:09 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA01562; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 07:09:16 -0400 Received: from UNiX.asb.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA01550; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 07:09:14 -0400 Received: from sle2.asb.com (sle2.asb.com [165.254.128.72]) by UNiX.asb.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id HAA08407; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 07:09:09 -0500 Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 07:09:09 -0500 Message-Id: <199510061209.HAA08407@UNiX.asb.com> X-Sender: f_haddad@unix.asb.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@world.std.com From: f_haddad@unix.asb.com (Fouad Haddad) Subject: [9] The Prophet's Journey Cc: mateens@sybase.com X-Mailer: Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: [9] The Prophet's Journey ------------------------- Excerpt from Shaykh Hisham Kabbani's <>, KAZI 1995. The Prophet then moved through one veil after another until he passed through one thousand veils. Finally he opened the Veil of Oneness. He found himself like a lamp suspended in the middle of a divine air. He saw a magnificent, great and unutterable matter. He asked his Lord to give him firmness and strength. He felt that a drop of that presence was put on his tongue and he found it cooler than ice and sweeter than honey. Nothing on earth and the seven paradises tasted like it. With this drop, God put into the Prophet's heart the knowledge of the First and the Last, the heavenly and the earthly. All this was revealed to him in one instant shorter than the fastest second. He was ordered to move forward. As he moved he found himself elevated on a throne that can never be described, now or later. Three additional drops were given to him: one on his shoulder consisting in majesty, one in his heart consisting in mercy, and an additional one on his tongue which consisted in eloquence. Then a voice came from that presence, which no created being had heard before: "O Muhammad! I have made you the intercessor for everyone." At that moment the Prophet felt his mind enraptured and taken away to be replaced with an astonishing secret. He was placed in the Fields of God's Eternity and Endlessness. In the first he found no beginning and in the second he found no end. Then God revealed to Him: "My end is in My beginning and My beginning is in My end." Then the Prophet knew that all doors were absolutely closed except those that led to God, that God cannot be described within the confine of a place in speech, and that God encompasses the everywhere of all places. This is a secret that no tongue can be stirred to express, no door opened to reveal, and no answer can define. He is the Guide to Himself and the Lord of His own description. He is the Beauty of all beauty and the speech by which to describe Himself belongs to Him alone. O God My Creator, in Your infinity do I stand amazed. In Your ocean of unity do I drown submerged. O God, at times You closet me in familiar intimacy. At times You leave me without, veiled and strange, Hidden in Your sovereign Majesty. Give me to drink the wine of Your love, For only drunk from it am I able to say: My Lord! Let me see You. The Prophet then looked on his right and saw nothing except His Lord, then on his left and saw nothing except his Lord, then to the front, to the back, and above him, and he saw nothing except his Lord. He hated to leave that honored and blessed place. But God said: "O Muhammad, you are a messenger to My servants as all messengers, if you stay here you would never be able to communicate My Message. Therefore descend back to earth, and communicate My message to My servants. Whenever you want to be in the same state as you are now, make your prayers, and I shall open this state for you." This is why the Prophet stated: "Prayer is the apple of my eyes," and he called it also: "Our rest." Then the Prophet was ordered to go back to earth, but he left his self in heaven and his spirit at the Lote-tree, and his heart in the unutterable divine presence while his secret was left suspended without place. His self wondered: "Where is the heart?" and his heart wondered: "Where is the spirit?" and his spirit wondered: "Where is the secret?" and his secret wondered where it was. And God revealed: "O self of the Prophet! I granted you blessing and forgiveness, and O spirit! I granted you mercy and honor, and O heart! I granted you Love and Beauty, and O secret, you have Me." God then revealed to the Prophet the order to recite: "He is the one who sends blessings on you, together with His angels, in order to bring you out from darkness into light" (33:43). "O Muhammad! I have ordered the angels of all My heavens, those created and those yet uncreated, to send blessings on you and My creation unceasingly, with My own praise. I am your Lord Who said: My Mercy has taken over My anger. And all My angels I have created for you human beings." And God ordered the Prophet to descend with this angelic message back to earth. From tariqas-approval Fri Oct 6 07:10:34 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA01879; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 07:10:34 -0400 Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 07:10:34 -0400 Message-Id: <199510061110.AA01879@world.std.com> To: tariqas-approval@world.std.com From: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Subject: BOUNCE tariqas@world.std.com: Imbalanced parentheses or angle brackets Status: RO X-Status: >From johan.saeverud@anthro.ku.dk Thu Oct 5 13:20:04 1995 Return-Path: Received: from garm.adm.ku.dk by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA01816; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 07:10:29 -0400 Received: from mac12.anthro.ku.dk (mac12.anthro.ku.dk [130.225.125.206]) by garm.adm.ku.dk (8.6.10/8.6) with SMTP id MAA03133 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 12:10:13 +0100 Message-Id: <199510061110.MAA03133@garm.adm.ku.dk> From: "Johan S>verud" Date: Fri, 06 Oct 95 13:20:04 -2400 To: tariqas@world.std.com X-Mailer: Mozilla/1.0N (Macintosh) Subject: http://www.best.com/~informe/mateen/Sufi/Join_sufism.html X-Url: http://www.best.com/~informe/mateen/Sufi/Join_sufism.html Dear Sirs I am interested in subscribing to the Tariqas mailing list. My name is: OLE RAMSING I am a: STUDENT OF ANTHROPOLOGY, UNIVERSITY OF COPENHAGEN, DENMARK My e-mail address is: OLE.RAMSING@ANTHRO.KU DK Also, I would be very pleased if you could give me, or help me find, information on the Tariqa "dervish Gonaabaadi" whom I visited in their khaaneqaah near Park-e Shahr in Tehran. Thank you for considering this letter, and with the hope of a reply Sincerely Ole Ramsing (ole.ramsing@anthro.ku.dk) From tariqas-approval Fri Oct 6 08:03:25 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA25527; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 08:03:25 -0400 Received: from juliet.logica.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA25166; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 08:03:15 -0400 Received: by juliet.logica.com; id NAA27534; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 13:03:13 +0100 Received: from carmen.logica.co.uk(158.234.8.100) by juliet.logica.com via smap (g3.0.3) id xma027475; Fri, 6 Oct 95 13:02:44 +0100 Received: from smtpmail.logica.com (mssmtp.logica.com [158.234.8.102]) by carmen.logica.co.uk (8.7.Beta.10/8.7.Beta.10) with SMTP id NAA18194 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 13:02:58 +0100 (BST) Received: by smtpmail.logica.com with Microsoft Mail id <307528F8@smtpmail.logica.com>; Fri, 06 Oct 95 13:02:48 bst From: Otersen Mathias To: "'tariqasmail'" Subject: Re:Re:Nothing wrong Date: Fri, 06 Oct 95 12:39:00 bst Message-Id: <307528F8@smtpmail.logica.com> Encoding: 29 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Dear Fred Rice, For a long time I knew that Islam formally divided people in three categories: 1. The believers who serve Allah (=Muslims). 2. People with believes that are almost to the point (Christians and Jews). 3. People totally off (polytheists etc.). So Buddhism and Taoism are off limits. This can also be concluded from you're criteria of minimal requirements for true believe: Believing in God, Believing in Judgement day and doing good deeds. Though Buddhism is stricly speaking not polytheistic in nature (Even the Gods and Goddesses in Tibitan Prasangika Buddhism are more comparable to enlightened beings than deities in the traditional sense), it has no concept for "God". Also there can not be such a thing as "Judgement day" in Buddhism since "existence of temporal things" is defined as having no beginning and no end. About Taoism I can only state that it's animistic in nature and thus totally incomparable with the great semitic religions... Wa salaam, Matthias. From tariqas-approval Fri Oct 6 04:07:05 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA03884; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 09:07:43 -0400 Received: from virginia.edu (uvaarpa.Virginia.EDU) by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA03823; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 09:07:41 -0400 Received: from poe.acc.virginia.edu by uvaarpa.virginia.edu id aa05653; 6 Oct 95 9:07 EDT Received: from [128.143.3.213] (ara-mac-213.itc.Virginia.EDU [128.143.3.213]) by poe.acc.Virginia.EDU (8.6.10/8.6.6) with SMTP id JAA36230 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 09:07:35 -0400 Message-Id: <199510061307.JAA36230@poe.acc.Virginia.EDU> X-Sender: nd4n@poe.acc.virginia.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 09:07:05 -0500 To: tariqas@world.std.com From: "A.N. Durkee" Subject: Re: Re:Re:Nothing wrong Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: >Dear Fred Rice, > >For a long time I knew that Islam formally divided people in three >categories: > >1. The believers who serve Allah (=Muslims). > >2. People with believes that are almost to the point (Christians and Jews). > >3. People totally off (polytheists etc.). > >So Buddhism and Taoism are off limits. This can also be concluded from >you're criteria of minimal requirements for true believe: Believing in God, >Believing in Judgement day and doing good deeds. Though Buddhism is stricly >speaking not polytheistic in nature (Even the Gods and Goddesses in Tibitan >Prasangika Buddhism are more comparable to enlightened beings than deities >in the traditional sense), it has no concept for "God". Also there can not >be such a thing as "Judgement day" in Buddhism since "existence of temporal >things" is defined as having no beginning and no end. About Taoism I can >only state that it's animistic in nature and thus totally incomparable with >the great semitic religions... > > >Wa salaam, > >Matthias. dear Matthias, you make every thing sound so simple. wa salaam A. N. Durkee Green Mountain From tariqas-approval Fri Oct 6 05:32:27 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA25124; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 09:32:46 -0400 Received: from junior.wariat.org by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA25076; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 09:32:43 -0400 Received: from [199.18.253.211] (hoon.apk.net [199.18.253.211]) by junior.wariat.org (8.6.10/8.6.12) with SMTP id JAA13524 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 09:32:27 -0400 Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 09:32:27 -0400 X-Sender: hoon@junior.wariat.org Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@world.std.com From: hoon@apk.net Subject: Re: Re:Re:Nothing wrong Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: At 9:07 AM 10/6/95, A.N. Durkee wrote: >>Dear Fred Rice, >> >>For a long time I knew that Islam formally divided people in three >>categories: >> >>1. The believers who serve Allah (=Muslims). >> >>2. People with believes that are almost to the point (Christians and Jews). >> >>3. People totally off (polytheists etc.). >> >>So Buddhism and Taoism are off limits. This can also be concluded from >>you're criteria of minimal requirements for true believe: Believing in God, >>Believing in Judgement day and doing good deeds. Though Buddhism is stricly >>speaking not polytheistic in nature (Even the Gods and Goddesses in Tibitan >>Prasangika Buddhism are more comparable to enlightened beings than deities >>in the traditional sense), it has no concept for "God". Also there can not >>be such a thing as "Judgement day" in Buddhism since "existence of temporal >>things" is defined as having no beginning and no end. About Taoism I can >>only state that it's animistic in nature and thus totally incomparable with >>the great semitic religions... >> >> >>Wa salaam, >> >>Matthias. > >dear Matthias, > >you make every thing sound so simple. > >wa salaam > >A. N. Durkee >Green Mountain Asalaamu Alaykhum Question: are there any atoms that Allah doesn't *move*? Including Buddhist and Taoist ones, so to speak? The intellectual nature of this group aside...who decides who is a believer? I rather wish it be only He. alhumdulilah! Forgive me if I am in error. --------------------------------- | Stephen Calhoun The only joy in the world is to begin. --Cesare Pavese From tariqas-approval Fri Oct 6 11:18:23 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA18922; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 11:18:23 -0400 Received: from juliet.logica.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA18894; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 11:18:20 -0400 Received: by juliet.logica.com; id QAA18358; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 16:18:15 +0100 Received: from carmen.logica.co.uk(158.234.8.100) by juliet.logica.com via smap (g3.0.3) id xma018344; Fri, 6 Oct 95 16:18:07 +0100 Received: from smtpmail.logica.com (mssmtp.logica.com [158.234.8.102]) by carmen.logica.co.uk (8.7.Beta.10/8.7.Beta.10) with SMTP id QAA08490 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 16:18:22 +0100 (BST) Received: by smtpmail.logica.com with Microsoft Mail id <307556C4@smtpmail.logica.com>; Fri, 06 Oct 95 16:18:12 bst From: Otersen Mathias To: "'tariqasmail'" Subject: Sounds simple? Date: Fri, 06 Oct 95 15:43:00 bst Message-Id: <307556C4@smtpmail.logica.com> Encoding: 52 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: >Dear Fred Rice, > >For a long time I knew that Islam formally divided people in three >categories: > >1. The believers who serve Allah (=Muslims). > >2. People with believes that are almost to the point (Christians and Jews). > >3. People totally off (polytheists etc.). > >So Buddhism and Taoism are off limits. This can also be concluded from >you're criteria of minimal requirements for true believe: Believing in God, >Believing in Judgement day and doing good deeds. Though Buddhism is stricly >speaking not polytheistic in nature (Even the Gods and Goddesses in Tibitan >Prasangika Buddhism are more comparable to enlightened beings than deities >in the traditional sense), it has no concept for "God". Also there can not >be such a thing as "Judgement day" in Buddhism since "existence of temporal >things" is defined as having no beginning and no end. About Taoism I can >only state that it's animistic in nature and thus totally incomparable with >the great semitic religions... > > >Wa salaam, > >Matthias. dear Matthias, you make every thing sound so simple. wa salaam A. N. Durkee Green Mountain ==> Citing "theory" is indeed easy. Trying to compare however buddhism with Islam and visa versa on a non-cultural basis, objectively judging their lemma's at the very basis of what they stand for, is a trifle more difficult. (Fortunately, I didn't do that in my mail.). ==> To avoid misunderstandings: I believe that Islam and Buddhism are in essence identical. I prefer however Islam for its paradigms come more natural for a Westener like me. Wa salaam, Matthias. From tariqas-approval Fri Oct 6 11:18:51 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA19153; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 11:18:51 -0400 Received: from juliet.logica.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA19132; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 11:18:48 -0400 Received: by juliet.logica.com; id QAA18440; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 16:18:46 +0100 Received: from carmen.logica.co.uk(158.234.8.100) by juliet.logica.com via smap (g3.0.3) id xma018426; Fri, 6 Oct 95 16:18:42 +0100 Received: from smtpmail.logica.com (mssmtp.logica.com [158.234.8.102]) by carmen.logica.co.uk (8.7.Beta.10/8.7.Beta.10) with SMTP id QAA08511 for ; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 16:18:57 +0100 (BST) Received: by smtpmail.logica.com with Microsoft Mail id <307556E7@smtpmail.logica.com>; Fri, 06 Oct 95 16:18:47 bst From: Otersen Mathias To: "'tariqasmail'" Subject: Re: Re:Re:Nothing wrong Date: Fri, 06 Oct 95 15:58:00 bst Message-Id: <307556E7@smtpmail.logica.com> Encoding: 30 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: cited stuff: >>Asalaamu Alaykhum >>Question: are there any atoms that Allah doesn't *move*? Including Buddhist >>and Taoist ones, so to speak? >>The intellectual nature of this group aside...who decides who is a >>believer? I rather wish it be only He. alhumdulilah! >>Forgive me if I am in error. >>--------------------------------- | Stephen Calhoun >>The only joy in the world is to begin. --Cesare Pavese Of course there's nothing Allah doesn't move! (With exception perhaps of the names and concepts people apply to him.....). ***grinnn*** Wa salaam, Matthias. PS. I firmly believe your wish is granted by HIM. From tariqas-approval Sat Oct 7 14:59:59 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA08776; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 15:36:14 -0400 Received: from yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA08689; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 15:36:06 -0400 Received: from localhost (darice@localhost) by yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (8.6.4/8.6.4) id FAA23011; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 05:36:03 +1000 Date: Sat, 7 Oct 1995 04:59:59 +1000 (EST) From: Fred Rice Subject: Re:Re:Nothing wrong To: tariqas@world.std.com In-Reply-To: <307528F8@smtpmail.logica.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Dear Mathias, Peace be with you! On Fri, 6 Oct 1995, Otersen Mathias wrote: > Dear Fred Rice, > > For a long time I knew that Islam formally divided people in three > categories: > > 1. The believers who serve Allah (=Muslims). > 2. People with believes that are almost to the point (Christians and Jews). > 3. People totally off (polytheists etc.). This is certainly how some have divided it. However, I don't believe this division came from a Sufi! Not all Muslims (including non-Sufis) would agree with this, of course, particularly # 3. For example, in the 10th century or so (give or take a couple of centuries :) there was a Muslim, al-Biruni, who studied the Hindu religion. He thought the Hindu religion was originally from the religion of Abraham (perhaps confusing "Brahmin" with "Ibrahim"). Others have considered Hinduism to be what is left of the original religion of Adam, due to its ancient origins. (You can read about this, for example, in the chapter called "The Islamic encounter of religions" in the book "Sufi Essays" (also published as "Living Islam") by Seyyed Hossein Nasr.) > So Buddhism and Taoism are off limits. This can also be concluded from > you're criteria of minimal requirements for true believe: Believing in God, > Believing in Judgement day and doing good deeds. Though Buddhism is stricly > speaking not polytheistic in nature (Even the Gods and Goddesses in Tibitan > Prasangika Buddhism are more comparable to enlightened beings than deities > in the traditional sense), it has no concept for "God". I have only investigated Chan/Zen Buddhism to some extent, and cannot comment on other forms of Buddhism. ("Chan" Buddhism is the Chinese name, while "Zen" is the Japanese name.) One method of meditation in Chan/Zen Buddhism is the "Secret of the Golden Flower" method. The essence of this method is to focus on the very source of all your thoughts. What is the source of your thoughts? From a Sufi viewpoint, to my understanding (please correct me), when one purifies oneself the source of your thoughts and of the images you see is none other than from Allah. Therefore, seeking the _source_ of all thought through the "Secret of the Golden Flower" method seems to be a method similar to purifying your heart and seeking the One. (To find out more about this Buddhist technique, see "The Secret of the Golden Flower" translated by Thomas Cleary. _Do not_ even look at the version by Wilhelm and Jung, since it is completely wrong, as the notes in Cleary's translation make clear. The Sufi viewpoint I have gathered mainly from Jalaluddin Rumi and Ibn al-Arabi.) Though Buddhist texts do not talk about "God", they do talk about the "Absolute" and about "Reality" and this is very similar, in my humble experience, to what is the true meaning of "God". Allah knows best, may He guide us! > Also there can not > be such a thing as "Judgement day" in Buddhism since "existence of temporal > things" is defined as having no beginning and no end. This does appear to be different, I agree, with "exoteric" Islam. But I cannot say I have studied Buddhism to a great extent. However, I have studied Taoism much deeper.... > About Taoism I can > only state that it's animistic in nature and thus totally incomparable with > the great semitic religions... There are two "Taoisms" -- often called "philosophical" Taoism and "popular" Taoism. The popular form is undoubtedly polytheistic etc. However, when you look at the main Taoist text, the Tao Te Ching, there is no polytheism in this text. It is all centered on one thing -- the Tao. The Tao is a different perspective of "God", but it is the same thing nevertheless. "Philosophical" Taoism I think seems more close to the Taoist texts, which is again closer to Islamic teachings. To be honest, I see little contradiction between the Tao Te Ching and the teachings of the Qur'an, though they do use different language and imagery in their teaching. (This, though, is to be expected even if it is the same religion, since they are being explained in the context of different cultures.) Taoism seems very nature-based, using nature as a role-model for life. This message is also contained in the Qur'an. The Qur'an says, in many passages, that the various phenomena of nature are the signs, or "ayat", of God. This word "ayat" is the same word used for the verses of the Qur'an. The implication is that you can study nature and read it like a book, and learn from it, and get closer to your Creator through it, just as you can study the verses of the Qur'an. Taoism seems to me to be an embodiment of this aspect of the Qur'an's teachings, which is also emphasized in some Sufi teaching. Thus, personally, I believe the essence of Taoist teachings is actually also contained in the Qur'an. (This "sacred" aspect of nature has also been written about by Seyyed Hossein Nasr, in some of his books like "Man and nature" and I think there may also be a chapter on it in his book "Islamic life and thought.") Allah knows best, may He guide us all and increase us in knowledge. Wassalam, Fred Rice From tariqas-approval Sat Oct 7 15:37:09 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA17298; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 15:46:24 -0400 Received: from yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA17262; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 15:46:21 -0400 Received: from localhost (darice@localhost) by yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (8.6.4/8.6.4) id FAA23251; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 05:46:14 +1000 Date: Sat, 7 Oct 1995 05:37:09 +1000 (EST) From: Fred Rice Subject: Re: Sounds simple? To: tariqas@world.std.com In-Reply-To: <307556C4@smtpmail.logica.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: On Fri, 6 Oct 1995, Otersen Mathias wrote: > ==> Citing "theory" is indeed easy. Trying to compare however buddhism with > Islam and visa versa on a non-cultural basis, objectively judging their > lemma's at the very basis of what they stand for, is a trifle more > difficult. (Fortunately, I didn't do that in my mail.). I agree, it is difficult and fraught with pitfalls. I can only compare my limited _experiences_, though they are very limited in Buddhism, though I have more "experience" in Taoism.... but my knowledge is still very limited... > ==> To avoid misunderstandings: I believe that Islam and Buddhism are in > essence identical. I prefer however Islam for its paradigms come more > natural for a Westener like me. I also think that in their essence they are identical, and the same with "philosophical" Taoism. There is a strong link between Chan/Zen Buddhism and Taoism, with some even going so far as to say that Chan Buddhism is Taoism in a Buddhist guise. (I can't comment on if this is true or not, since I don't think I know enough about Chan Buddhism to judge, but there is definitely a historical link there.) However, I really think at the moment that what you find in Taoism and Chan/Zen Buddhism is contained in one or more of the various schools of Sufism, though it may not be obvious at first. Allah knows best, Wassalam, Fred Rice From tariqas-approval Fri Oct 6 12:52:31 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA06623; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 16:52:38 -0400 Received: from mail02.mail.aol.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA06576; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 16:52:35 -0400 Received: by mail02.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id QAA19182 for tariqas@world.std.com; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 16:52:31 -0400 Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 16:52:31 -0400 From: Jinavamsa@aol.com Message-Id: <951006165231_38160210@mail02.mail.aol.com> To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: Nothing wrong Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Dear Matthias, Re your message below, I am not sure what you mean by "totally off" or "off limits" but if the function of teachings (or Teachings) is to transform human beings for the better and to allow a sense of what is spiritual, divine, and sublimely beautiful about Reality to come across, why not be wise as once defined: Who is wise? The one who learns from all people. (I paraphrase.) Either way, may all people of all traditions come close to and enter the ineffable! Why shut outselves off from teachings that may deepen our own resonance with Truth? in peace for all beings, Jinavamsa In a message dated 95-10-06 08:06:27 EDT, you write: > > >Dear Fred Rice, > >For a long time I knew that Islam formally divided people in three >categories: > >1. The believers who serve Allah (=Muslims). > >2. People with believes that are almost to the point (Christians and Jews). > >3. People totally off (polytheists etc.). > >So Buddhism and Taoism are off limits. This can also be concluded from >you're criteria of minimal requirements for true believe: Believing in God, >Believing in Judgement day and doing good deeds. Though Buddhism is stricly >speaking not polytheistic in nature (Even the Gods and Goddesses in Tibitan >Prasangika Buddhism are more comparable to enlightened beings than deities >in the traditional sense), it has no concept for "God". Also there can not >be such a thing as "Judgement day" in Buddhism since "existence of temporal >things" is defined as having no beginning and no end. About Taoism I can >only state that it's animistic in nature and thus totally incomparable with >the great semitic religions... > > >Wa salaam, > >Matthias. > > > From tariqas-approval Fri Oct 6 13:27:09 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA02263; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 17:27:11 -0400 Received: from mail04.mail.aol.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA02243; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 17:27:09 -0400 Received: by mail04.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id RAA23102 for tariqas@world.std.com; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 17:27:09 -0400 Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 17:27:09 -0400 From: Jinavamsa@aol.com Message-Id: <951006172708_38188404@mail04.mail.aol.com> To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: Nothing wrong Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Dear Fred, thank you for the comments. We might say, re your question in response to Matthias, about what is beyond time if anything in Buddhism (see your text below), that within conditioned reality there is no beginning and no end (just one thing after another, all interrelated), that there is another level of experience which is timeless, nonconditioned. THis may be compared to what some mystical Christians have called resurrection now, and is perhaps also comparable with the experience of merging in the ocean of Reality. may all merge and live in compassion and understanding Jinavamsa In a message dated 95-10-06 15:40:16 EDT, you write: > Re:Re:Nothing wrong >Date: 95-10-06 15:40:16 EDT >From: darice@yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (Fred Rice) >Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com >Reply-to: tariqas@world.std.com >To: tariqas@world.std.com > > >Dear Mathias, Peace be with you! > >On Fri, 6 Oct 1995, Otersen Mathias wrote: > >> Dear Fred Rice, >> >> For a long time I knew that Islam formally divided people in three >> categories: >> >> 1. The believers who serve Allah (=Muslims). >> 2. People with believes that are almost to the point (Christians and Jews). >> 3. People totally off (polytheists etc.). > >This is certainly how some have divided it. However, I don't believe >this division came from a Sufi! Not all Muslims (including non-Sufis) >would agree with this, of course, particularly # 3. For example, >in the 10th century or so (give or take a couple of centuries :) >there was a Muslim, al-Biruni, who studied the Hindu religion. He >thought the Hindu religion was originally from the religion of Abraham >(perhaps confusing "Brahmin" with "Ibrahim"). Others have considered >Hinduism to be what is left of the original religion of Adam, due to >its ancient origins. (You can read about this, for example, in >the chapter called "The Islamic encounter of religions" in the >book "Sufi Essays" (also published as "Living Islam") by Seyyed Hossein >Nasr.) > >> So Buddhism and Taoism are off limits. This can also be concluded from >> you're criteria of minimal requirements for true believe: Believing in God, > >> Believing in Judgement day and doing good deeds. Though Buddhism is stricly > >> speaking not polytheistic in nature (Even the Gods and Goddesses in Tibitan > >> Prasangika Buddhism are more comparable to enlightened beings than deities >> in the traditional sense), it has no concept for "God". > >I have only investigated Chan/Zen Buddhism to some extent, and cannot >comment on other forms of Buddhism. ("Chan" Buddhism is the Chinese >name, while "Zen" is the Japanese name.) > >One method of meditation in Chan/Zen Buddhism is the "Secret of the Golden >Flower" method. The essence of this method is to focus on the very source >of all your thoughts. What is the source of your thoughts? From a Sufi >viewpoint, to my understanding (please correct me), when one purifies >oneself the source of your thoughts and of the images you see is none >other than from Allah. Therefore, seeking the _source_ of all thought >through the "Secret of the Golden Flower" method seems to be a method >similar to purifying your heart and seeking the One. (To find >out more about this Buddhist technique, see "The Secret of the Golden >Flower" translated by Thomas Cleary. _Do not_ even look at the version by >Wilhelm and Jung, since it is completely wrong, as the notes in Cleary's >translation make clear. The Sufi viewpoint I have gathered mainly from >Jalaluddin Rumi and Ibn al-Arabi.) > >Though Buddhist texts do not talk about "God", they do talk about >the "Absolute" and about "Reality" and this is very similar, in my >humble experience, to what is the true meaning of "God". Allah knows >best, may He guide us! > >> Also there can not >> be such a thing as "Judgement day" in Buddhism since "existence of temporal > >> things" is defined as having no beginning and no end. > >This does appear to be different, I agree, with "exoteric" Islam. >But I cannot say I have studied Buddhism to a great extent. > >However, I have studied Taoism much deeper.... > >> About Taoism I can >> only state that it's animistic in nature and thus totally incomparable with > >> the great semitic religions... > >There are two "Taoisms" -- often called "philosophical" Taoism and >"popular" Taoism. The popular form is undoubtedly polytheistic etc. >However, when you look at the main Taoist text, the Tao Te Ching, >there is no polytheism in this text. It is all centered on one >thing -- the Tao. The Tao is a different perspective of "God", >but it is the same thing nevertheless. "Philosophical" Taoism >I think seems more close to the Taoist texts, which is again closer >to Islamic teachings. To be honest, I see little contradiction between >the Tao Te Ching and the teachings of the Qur'an, though they do use >different language and imagery in their teaching. (This, though, >is to be expected even if it is the same religion, since they are being >explained in the context of different cultures.) > >Taoism seems very nature-based, using nature as a role-model for life. >This message is also contained in the Qur'an. The Qur'an says, in >many passages, that the various phenomena of nature are the signs, >or "ayat", of God. This word "ayat" is the same word used for the >verses of the Qur'an. The implication is that you can study nature >and read it like a book, and learn from it, and get closer to your >Creator through it, just as you can study the verses of the Qur'an. >Taoism seems to me to be an embodiment of this aspect of the Qur'an's >teachings, which is also emphasized in some Sufi teaching. Thus, >personally, I believe the essence of Taoist teachings is actually also >contained in the Qur'an. (This "sacred" aspect of nature has also >been written about by Seyyed Hossein Nasr, in some of his books like >"Man and nature" and I think there may also be a chapter on it >in his book "Islamic life and thought.") > >Allah knows best, may He guide us all and increase us in knowledge. > >Wassalam, > >Fred Rice > > > > >----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- >From tariqas-approval@world.std.com Fri Oct 6 15:39:54 1995 >Return-Path: tariqas-approval@world.std.com >Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [192.74.137.10]) by >emin09.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id PAA09571; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 >15:39:53 -0400 >Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) > id PAA09113; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 15:36:30 -0400 >Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) > id AA08776; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 15:36:14 -0400 >Received: from yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) > id AA08689; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 15:36:06 -0400 >Received: from localhost (darice@localhost) by yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au >(8.6.4/8.6.4) id FAA23011; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 05:36:03 +1000 >Date: Sat, 7 Oct 1995 04:59:59 +1000 (EST) >From: Fred Rice >Subject: Re:Re:Nothing wrong >To: tariqas@world.std.com >In-Reply-To: <307528F8@smtpmail.logica.com> >Message-Id: >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII >Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com >Precedence: bulk >Reply-To: tariqas@world.std.com From tariqas-approval Fri Oct 6 12:18:37 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA02234; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 21:17:51 -0400 Received: from acad1.cc.uleth.ca by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA02211; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 21:17:47 -0400 Received: by hg.uleth.ca (MX V4.1 VAX) id 238; Fri, 06 Oct 1995 19:18:37 MST Date: Fri, 06 Oct 1995 19:18:37 MST From: pavlna@hg.uleth.ca To: tariqas@world.std.com Message-Id: <009977A9.000C057F.238@hg.uleth.ca> Subject: Re: Re:Re:Nothing wrong Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Perhaps I did not make myself clear in stating that my comparison is mostly between ethical principles and methods for meditating, etc.... As for theological concepts, Islam has the best description of God and His characteristics. As far as Buddhism is concerned, many of the sayings of the Buddha sound like Hadith and offer much wisdom for a person trying to find Wisdom. Theravada Buddhism is known for being a-theistic, but perhaps some of the true teachings of the Buddha have been corrupted as happened with Prophet Jesus. We (i.e. as Muslims) don't believe that Jesus ever told people to worship he and his mother or believe in a "trinity". Why could it not be the situation that the Buddha was also a prophet whose teachings were corrupted by his later followers? Of course, we will never know the answer to this question in this life. Here is an example of Buddha's sayings: "Understand that your thoughts can be like a drawing made on water, on earth, or on stone; the first is best for the passionate, the last for the righteous" "A man who wastes his life in sin is a greater fool than one who uses a jeweled and golden vessel to vomit in" If you can show me how these do not offer valueable pieces of wisdom or are somewhow contrary to Islamic teachings please let me know! As for Taoism, there is a distinction to be made between popular and philosophical Taoism. Popular Taoism involves rituals, etc... that involve polytheism and idol worship. However, it is NOT animistic, I think you may be thinking of Shinto (the indigenous religion of Japan). As far as Philosophical Taoism is concerned, if you think it is so different from Sufism or that I am being too simplistic about it, read Sufism and Taoism: A Comparison of Key Philosophical Concepts by Toshihiko Izutsu. Taoism includes concepts absolutely analagous to the concepts of Fana', Baqa', and the Insan Kamil in Sufism. When you can discuss the issue with an open mind and more knowledge of which you speak, please reply. As the Sufi path is not well accepted within Orthodoxy, should we not try to divide ourselves from within those who choose the Path of the Heart. From tariqas-approval Fri Oct 6 17:29:51 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA07466; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 21:29:53 -0400 Received: from mail04.mail.aol.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA07456; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 21:29:51 -0400 Received: by mail04.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id VAA26436 for tariqas@world.std.com; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 21:29:51 -0400 Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 21:29:51 -0400 From: Jinavamsa@aol.com Message-Id: <951006212951_38365502@mail04.mail.aol.com> To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: On Surat al-Kawthar Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: dear Fouad, thank you for this post re Surah 108. Would you be able to share any other of the commentaries on al-Kawthar? Is it ever seen in Sufi teachings (or traditional Islam) as a way of talking about consciousness and the experiences of consciousness, rather than as a place one might get to after death? thank you. in peace, Jinavamsa In a message dated 95-10-05 20:04:12 EDT, you write: >Subj: On Surat al-Kawthar >Date: 95-10-05 20:04:12 EDT >From: f_haddad@unix.asb.com (Fouad Haddad) >Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com >Reply-to: tariqas@world.std.com >To: tariqas@world.std.com >CC: msa@htm3.ee.queensu.ca > >ON SURAT AL-KAWTHAR (ABUNDANCE) >=============================== > >[Koran 108] > >Pickthall: > ><So pray unto thy Lord, and sacrifice. >Lo! It is thy insulter (and not thou) who is without posterity.>> > >The following is a translated excerpt from the Tafsir (Commentary) of >al-Khazin (d. 725 H.) on this surat in <> al-matba`a >al-`amira, 1320 H. 6:580. > >Al-Kawthar is a river in Paradise (al-Jannat) which God gave to >Muhammad, Blessings and Peace be upon him (s). It is said also that the >Kawthar is the Glorious Qur'an. Also: prophecy, the Book, and wisdom. >Also: the abundance of his followers and Community. Also: abundant good >(al-khayr al-kathir), as Ibn `Abbas has explained. Abu Bushr relates >the latter from Sa`eed Ibn Jubayr, who related it from Ibn `Abbas. Abu >Bushr said: "I told Ibn Jubayr: Some people say that it means a river in >paradise. He replied: the River in Paradise is part of the abundant >good which God gave him." > >The linguistic root of Kawthar is "faw`al" which denotes abundance. The >Arabs named "kawthar" everything which came in abundance, or in great >numbers, or of superlative value and importance. > >It is said that the "kawthar" also means the abundant favors which God >gave all creation. And all these explanations enter into God's gifts to >the Prophet (s), which are: prophecy (nubuwwa), the Book (al-kitab), >wisdom (hikmat), knowledge (`ilm), intercession (shafa`at), the Pond or >Watering-Place in Paradise (al-hawd al-mawrud), the Praiseworthy Station >(al-maqam al-mahmud), an abundant following, Islam and its proclamation- >and-ascendancy (izharihi) over all religions, victory over his enemies >and a great number of conquests in his own time and after it, until the >Day of Resurrection. > >And the best explanation concerning the Kawthar is the one on which the >majority of scholars concur, namely that it is a river in Paradise, as >was made clear in the Traditions (hadith). > >Muslim relates on the authority of Anas: "As we were behind the Prophet >(s) on a certain day he nodded off awhile. Then he raised his head and >smiled. We said: What made you smile, O Messenger of God? He said: A >surat was revealed to me previously (anifan). He then recited: > >Bismillah ir-Rahman ir-Raheem > >Inna a`taynaka al-Kawthar >Fa salli li rabbika wa anHar >Inna shani'aka huwa al-abtar, > >then he said: Do you know what is the Kawthar? We replied: God and His >Messenger know best. He said: Verily it is a river (nahrun) which my >Lord of Might and Majesty has promised me, a great good (khayrun >kathirun), it is a pond (hawd) where my Community shall drink, and its >vessels number as the stars in heaven. I will see someone grieving (in >deprivation of it) and I will say: O my Lord, he is one of my Community! >And God will say: Don't you know what he has brought after you?" > >Bukhari relates on the authority of Anas: "The Prophet (s) said: When I >was brought up to heaven (on the Night of ascension) a river was shown >to me encompassed with spacious domes of marble. I said: What is this, >O Gabriel? He said: This is the Kawthar which your Lord has given you, >and its river-banks are musk." > > >Blessings and Peace on the Prophet of Overabundance, his Family, and his >Companions. > >Fouad Haddad >Naqshbandi-Haqqani Foundation >URL: http://www.best.com/~informe/mateen/haqqani.html [in 9 languages] > > > >----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- >From tariqas-approval@world.std.com Thu Oct 5 20:03:47 1995 >Return-Path: tariqas-approval@world.std.com >Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [192.74.137.10]) by >emin05.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id UAA15593; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 >20:03:46 -0400 >Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) > id UAA19610; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 20:00:58 -0400 >Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) > id AA16263; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 20:00:56 -0400 >Received: from UNiX.asb.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) > id AA16243; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 20:00:54 -0400 >Received: from sle7.asb.com (sle7.asb.com [165.254.128.77]) by UNiX.asb.com >(8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA04958; Thu, 5 Oct 1995 19:59:50 -0500 >Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 19:59:50 -0500 >Message-Id: <199510060059.TAA04958@UNiX.asb.com> >X-Sender: f_haddad@unix.asb.com >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >To: tariqas@world.std.com >From: f_haddad@unix.asb.com (Fouad Haddad) >Subject: On Surat al-Kawthar >Cc: msa@htm3.ee.queensu.ca >X-Mailer: >Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com >Precedence: bulk >Reply-To: tariqas@world.std.com From tariqas-approval Fri Oct 6 12:20:04 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA19037; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 21:49:16 -0400 Received: from acad1.cc.uleth.ca by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA18965; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 21:49:12 -0400 Received: by hg.uleth.ca (MX V4.1 VAX) id 27; Fri, 06 Oct 1995 19:20:04 MST Date: Fri, 06 Oct 1995 19:20:04 MST From: pavlna@hg.uleth.ca To: tariqas@world.std.com Message-Id: <009977A9.33F4E69F.27@hg.uleth.ca> Subject: Re: Re:Re:Nothing wrong Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Ameen, my brother! From tariqas-approval Fri Oct 6 12:36:48 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA27060; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 22:06:01 -0400 Received: from acad1.cc.uleth.ca by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA26976; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 22:05:49 -0400 Received: by hg.uleth.ca (MX V4.1 AXP) id 20; Fri, 06 Oct 1995 19:36:33 MST Date: Fri, 06 Oct 1995 19:36:48 MST From: pavlna@hg.uleth.ca To: tariqas@world.std.com Message-Id: <009977AB.8A6F599F.20@hg.uleth.ca> Subject: Re: Nothing wrong Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: I agree with you. A great book on the similarities between Sufism and Taoism is Sufism and Taoism: A Comparison of Key Philosophical Concepts by Toshihiko Izutsu. In the book, the author outlines the philosophy of Ibn al-'Arabi and philosophical Taoism. It is a great work of scholarship and displays a good explanation of both paths. It is so great to hear from other Muslims who are thinking similar to my perspective on things and are not utterly discounting the possibility for finding Wisdom in other paths. Let us unite and help one another on the Path to the One. As the Buddha said: "When doing a great deed,diligently rely on a good friend. A fire may burn a mighty forest but it needs its friend-the wind." May Allah Bless and have Mercy on us all. Natalie A. Pavlis From tariqas-approval Fri Oct 6 12:52:48 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA16189; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 22:52:56 -0400 Received: from acad1.cc.uleth.ca by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA15881; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 22:52:13 -0400 Received: by hg.uleth.ca (MX V4.1 AXP) id 130; Fri, 06 Oct 1995 19:52:34 MST Date: Fri, 06 Oct 1995 19:52:48 MST From: pavlna@hg.uleth.ca To: tariqas@world.std.com Message-Id: <009977AD.C6D306FF.130@hg.uleth.ca> Subject: Natural Theology Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: I am very happy (Ilhamdullilah) at the discussion that has been generated by my comments and am glad to find a place where ideas can be exchanged and support can be obtained for others Seeking Wisdom in such a manner that they look for it (and see the Way to God in at least a small portion) in many spiritual traditions. As a student of Religious Studies, I am taking a class on the philosophy of religion and my Professor is working on Natural Theology (from a Christian perspective). His goal is to find a way to present proofs for the existence of God using the methods of natural science in order to counter objections from atheists which have arisen from the attitude toward religion in this culture which has deified science. Of course, there are proselytizing implications to this that may also be useful to Muslims. As Islam does not recognize the mutual exclusivity between science and religion as the West does (due mostly to secularism and the fact that much of Christianity is incompatable with science), it seems that Islamic theology is in essence a natural theology in that it does not maintain a separation between science and religion, and that many statements in the Qur'an about embryology, astronomy, etc... have recently been confirmed in Western Science (see The Bible, The Qur'an, and Science by Maurice Bucaille). Does anyone know of any books on Islamic Natural Theology or anything analagous in Islam? My professor is looking for a way to convince people of the existence of God and is looking for a way to convince people of the existence of God and recognizes the possibility of quite convincing arguments being found in Islam. I would heartily appreciate any help. Salaam 'Alaikum wa Rahmat Allah wa Barakatuhu Sister Natalie From tariqas-approval Fri Oct 6 18:03:03 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA13911; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 00:02:32 -0400 Received: from cwis.unomaha.edu by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA13883; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 00:02:29 -0400 Received: by cwis.unomaha.edu (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA05708; Fri, 6 Oct 1995 23:03:04 -0500 Message-Id: <9510070403.AA05708@cwis.unomaha.edu> Subject: think i can help you To: tariqas@world.std.com Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 23:03:03 -0500 (CDT) From: Richard Bennett In-Reply-To: <009977AD.C6D306FF.130@hg.uleth.ca> from "pavlna@hg.uleth.ca" at Oct 6, 95 07:52:48 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 479 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: 786 asalaam dear sister natalie: i think that i can help you...perhaps if i write you a passagefrom my sheiks book titled ISLAMIC SUFISM by capt. wahid bakhsh rabbani..there is a subheading titled : science surrendering to sufism that discusses sufism and the new physics...not complicated reading really but very deep in its implications. let me know if you are interested and i will, inshallah, write it for you and the others on the net. wasalaam abdul ghani From tariqas-approval Sat Oct 7 00:55:43 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA19808; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 00:55:43 -0400 Received: from yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA19680; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 00:55:40 -0400 Received: from localhost (darice@localhost) by yoyo.cc.monash.edu.au (8.6.4/8.6.4) id OAA11861; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 14:55:30 +1000 Date: Sat, 7 Oct 1995 14:53:29 +1000 (EST) From: Fred Rice Subject: away for a week To: tariqas@world.std.com In-Reply-To: <009977AB.8A6F599F.20@hg.uleth.ca> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Assalamu alaikum, Thanks for the nice responses to some of my messages :) A smile is charity, so therefore so should a computer smiley be!! :) :) :) I am going for a week (going interstate), so I won't be able to discuss things during that period, but I look forward to again rejoining the list when I get back in a week or so :) Wassalam, Fred Rice From tariqas-approval Sat Oct 7 04:57:44 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA01995; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 01:01:10 -0400 Received: from sowebo.charm.net by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA01898; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 01:01:07 -0400 Message-Id: <9510070100.AA12910@sowebo.charm.net> Received: from charm.net by sowebo.charm.net; Sat, 7 Oct 95 00:59 EDT From: tony@charm.net To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: science and islam Date: Sat, 07 Oct 1995 04:57:44 GMT Content-Length: 366 Content-Type: text Organization: Rodgers Forge in Baltimore, Maryland X-Mailer: Forte Agent .99b.112 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Assalam Alaikum. Natalie, you'll find some terrific information on many things islamic at: gopher://wings.buffalo.edu/hh/student-life/sa/muslim/isl/thought.html Links to this page are especially strong on science issues, fiqh, etc. Tony tony@charm.net "He has his law degree and a furnished office. It's just a question now of getting him out of bed." From tariqas-approval Fri Oct 6 17:22:26 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA14641; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 03:22:29 -0400 Received: from homer31.u.washington.edu by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA14635; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 03:22:27 -0400 Received: by homer31.u.washington.edu (5.65+UW95.09/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id AA73268; Sat, 7 Oct 95 00:22:26 -0700 X-Sender: lilyan@homer31.u.washington.edu Date: Sat, 7 Oct 1995 00:22:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Lilyan Ila To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: many paths, One Goal In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: asalaam-u-aleikum On Sat, 7 Oct 1995, Fred Rice wrote: >snip very good stuff< > > Though Buddhist texts do not talk about "God", they do talk about > the "Absolute" and about "Reality" and this is very similar, in my > humble experience, to what is the true meaning of "God". Allah knows > best, may He guide us! In fact, this perception of God as no less than Absolute Reality seems much closer to what I am able to understand of the Sufi perception of God. It seems that the 'mainstream' (for want of a better term) monotheistic/semitic religions' perception of God as a separate entity is closer to polytheism, in the sense that in order to have this separate God there must then be other than God, or more than One, Estaghfirullah. > quote from Mathias Oterson: > > Also there can not > > be such a thing as "Judgement day" in Buddhism since "existence of temporal > > things" is defined as having no beginning and no end. The Qur'an's descriptions of the Day of Judgement are clearly not descriptions of just another day among days! Terms such as these are in a sense limited, for they are describing what is essentially indescribable - that which we have only limited ability to understand. The important point I think is to be aware, there is something more than this that is coming. > > However, I have studied Taoism much deeper.... > > > About Taoism I can > > only state that it's animistic in nature and thus totally incomparable with > > the great semitic religions... > > There are two "Taoisms" -- often called "philosophical" Taoism and > "popular" Taoism. It seems to be so among other religions as well. These religions' teachings all include disciplined practices which are critical in order to progress along the path, do they not? The rituals may be seen as ends in themselves during early stages of spiritual development - and some may get stuck in these. But this fact does not negate their importance, as communicated by the prophets. One must choose a path and attempt to master its practices, as far as one is able. Reverence for Truth in its varied manifestations does not entail hopping about from path to path and avoiding this hard work! > > Allah knows best, may He guide us all and increase us in knowledge. and decrease our tendency to think we know! love to all Lily From tariqas-approval Fri Oct 6 18:06:47 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA22092; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 04:09:21 -0400 Received: from relay1.UU.NET by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA22071; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 04:09:18 -0400 Received: from netcom2.netcom.com by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP id QQzkjw06894; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 04:09:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: by netcom2.netcom.com (8.6.12/Netcom) id BAA08817; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 01:06:48 -0700 Date: Sat, 7 Oct 1995 01:06:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Steven Finkelman Subject: Re: many paths, One Goal To: tariqas@world.std.com Cc: tariqas@world.std.com In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: the lazy man's guide to enlightenment states, "Enlightenment doesn't care how you get there" God is god as god is. ishk allah mabood l'allah I am god remembering god. To Paraphrase Coleman Barks, in the tv show with bill moyers: To draw a distinction is to limit the heart, Limiting the heart limits the ability to act in the world. The rest is all concepts, the problem with concepts is that they are concepts, imagination. words lie. Love in through and over all, Hal AriLeib On Sat, 7 Oct 1995, Lilyan Ila wrote: > > asalaam-u-aleikum > > On Sat, 7 Oct 1995, Fred Rice wrote: > > >snip very good stuff< > > > > > Though Buddhist texts do not talk about "God", they do talk about > > the "Absolute" and about "Reality" and this is very similar, in my > > humble experience, to what is the true meaning of "God". Allah knows > > best, may He guide us! > > In fact, this perception of God as no less than Absolute Reality seems > much closer to what I am able to understand of the Sufi perception of God. > It seems that the 'mainstream' (for want of a better term) > monotheistic/semitic religions' perception of God as a separate entity is > closer to polytheism, in the sense that in order to have this separate God > there must then be other than God, or more than One, Estaghfirullah. > > > quote from Mathias Oterson: > > > > Also there can not > > > be such a thing as "Judgement day" in Buddhism since "existence of temporal > > > things" is defined as having no beginning and no end. See the tibetan book of the dead. the Judgments are our own. > > The Qur'an's descriptions of the Day of Judgement are clearly not > descriptions of just another day among days! Terms such as these are in a > sense limited, for they are describing what is essentially indescribable - > that which we have only limited ability to understand. The important > point I think is to be aware, there is something more than this that is > coming. > > > > > > However, I have studied Taoism much deeper.... > > > > > About Taoism I can > > > only state that it's animistic in nature and thus totally incomparable with > > > the great semitic religions... > > > > There are two "Taoisms" -- often called "philosophical" Taoism and > > "popular" Taoism. > > It seems to be so among other religions as well. > > These religions' teachings all include disciplined practices which are > critical in order to progress along the path, do they not? The rituals > may be seen as ends in themselves during early stages of spiritual > development - and some may get stuck in these. But this fact does not > negate their importance, as communicated by the prophets. > > One must choose a path and attempt to master its practices, as far as one > is able. Reverence for Truth in its varied manifestations does not > entail hopping about from path to path and avoiding this hard work! > > > > > Allah knows best, may He guide us all and increase us in knowledge. > > and decrease our tendency to think we know! > > love to all > > Lily > From tariqas-approval Sat Oct 7 10:21:01 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA15517; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 09:22:03 -0400 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA15507; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 09:22:01 -0400 Date: Sat, 7 Oct 1995 09:22:01 +0059 (EDT) From: Steve H Rose Subject: http://www.best.com/~informe/mateen/Sufi/Join_sufism.html (fwd) To: tariqas@world.std.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: From: "Johan Sverud" Dear Sirs I am interested in subscribing to the Tariqas mailing list. My name is: OLE RAMSING I am a: STUDENT OF ANTHROPOLOGY, UNIVERSITY OF COPENHAGEN, DENMARK My e-mail address is: OLE.RAMSING@ANTHRO.KU DK Also, I would be very pleased if you could give me, or help me find, information on the Tariqa "dervish Gonaabaadi" whom I visited in their khaaneqaah near Park-e Shahr in Tehran. Thank you for considering this letter, and with the hope of a reply Sincerely Ole Ramsing (ole.ramsing@anthro.ku.dk) From tariqas-approval Sat Oct 7 17:43:04 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA28412; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 21:43:06 -0400 Received: from mail02.mail.aol.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA28395; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 21:43:04 -0400 Received: by mail02.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id VAA27504 for tariqas@world.std.com; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 21:43:04 -0400 Date: Sat, 7 Oct 1995 21:43:04 -0400 From: Abdlqadir@aol.com Message-Id: <951007214302_118665555@mail02.mail.aol.com> To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: many paths, One Goal Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Dear Lily, well-stated. wa-salaam From tariqas-approval Sat Oct 7 17:47:32 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA29686; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 21:47:34 -0400 Received: from mail06.mail.aol.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA29675; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 21:47:32 -0400 Received: by mail06.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id VAA23647 for tariqas@world.std.com; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 21:47:32 -0400 Date: Sat, 7 Oct 1995 21:47:32 -0400 From: Abdlqadir@aol.com Message-Id: <951007214731_118667551@mail06.mail.aol.com> To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: many paths, One Goal Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Dear Steve, >To draw a distinction is to limit the heart. Perhaps, to draw the correct distinctions is to discover the boundaries of the heart, and, then, to enable the heart to divest itself of illusion and further expand. wa-salaam. From tariqas-approval Sat Oct 7 16:52:16 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA23708; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 22:51:44 -0400 Received: from cwis.unomaha.edu by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA23686; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 22:51:41 -0400 Received: by cwis.unomaha.edu (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA04899; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 21:52:17 -0500 Message-Id: <9510080252.AA04899@cwis.unomaha.edu> Subject: scirnce surrendering to sufism To: tariqas@world.std.com Date: Sat, 7 Oct 1995 21:52:16 -0500 (CDT) From: Richard Bennett Cc: rbennett@cwis.unomaha.edu In-Reply-To: <9510070403.AA05708@cwis.unomaha.edu> from "Richard Bennett" at Oct 6, 95 11:03:03 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 11465 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: 786 Asalaam, Dear Muslims and those on the net: This is intended for the sister on the net who wanted some proof of the existance of God in nature. I hope that this is helpful and informative. It is taken from a book that my Shaik, Hazrat Capt. (retd) Wahid Bakhsh Sial Rabbani (died may 95), published in 1992. It is titled: ISLAMIC SUFISM: The science of flight in God, with God, by God and Union and Communion with God...Also showing the tremendous Sufi influence on Christian and Hindu Mystics and Mysticism. Sorry its a little long! wasalaam, abdul ghani SCIENCE SURRENDERING TO SUFISM Time and time again the Sufis of Islam and other mystics have been warning mankind tha the universe is not real. It is not what it appears to be. It is a phantom. It is a shadow of reality believed to be real by those fettered by the chains of matter-time-space limitations like the inmates of Plato's Cave of Illusion. It is one of the triumphs of mysticism that modern science, fed up with the inaccuracies of blind phyysics completely devoid of metaphysical insiht has now started echoing the same themes and developed a tendency to bend before mysticism for guidance. Says Borges, and eminent contemporary physicist, in OTHER INQUISITIONS: "Let us admit what all idealists admit -- the hallucinatory nature of the world. Let us do what no idealist has done -- let us search for unrealities that confirm nature. I believe we will find them in the antinomies of Kant and in the dialectic of Zeno." In this quote Borges presents a view normally held by mystics: the hallucinatory nature of the Universe. "We have dreamed of it," says Borges simply. Michale Talbot voices the same concept in his book, MYSTICISM AND THE NEW PHYSICS. He says: "Our concept of time and space, the lkvery structure of the universe , are more intimately related to problems and phenomenon of consciousness than we have seroiusly suspected...There is no strict division between subjective and objective reality; consciousness and the physical universe are connected by some fundamental physical mechanism. This relationship between mind and reality is not subjective or objective, but 'omnijective'. An omnijective concept of the universe is by no means new.... there is a vast philosophical and metaphysical tradition behind the philosophy that the universe is omnijective. The mysitcs tell us this is true. The idealists tell us it is true. Most exciting of all, the physicists tell us it is true." Talbot goes on to say: "In 1927 Werner Heisenbergg presented his famous 'Uncertainty Principle'and started a philosophical debate among the quantum physicists that still has not resolved itself. In vastly simplified terms Heisenberg stated that the observer alters the observed by the mere act of observation.... The implications of the confluence of mysticism and physics are that all of our notions about the absoluteness of the physical universe are wrong. As Heisenberg has stated, 'The violent reaction on the recent development of modern physics can only be understood when one realizes that here the foundations of physics have started shaking, which has caused the feeling that the ground would be cut from science.... Both physics and metaphysics have reaced a point where language no longer imparts any information. For instance, in quantum mechanics, identical ` particles are said to be 'indistinguishable'. Two electrons that are indistinguishable can therefore be thought of as either the 'same' or 'different'.... One of the major revolutions in the realm of physics has been the increasing role of indeterminism -- or the realization that it may be impossible to predict the outcome of an experiment. Before the advent of quantum theory most physicists believed in a universe that was totally causal.... On the level of quantum mechanical events, however, nothing even approaching causality has been found to exist.... This is where the puzzle of indeterminism steps in. In certain circumstances Schrodinger's wave functions predict the behavior of a given particle up to a point and then describes two equally probable outcomes for the same particle. On paper as well as in observation no reason can be found for the particles varying behaviors." SCIENCE AND SUFIC WAHDAT-UL-WUJUD (ONENESS OF BEING) The Sufis of Islam believe in the oneness of Being. And by Being they mean God's Being. The maintain that everything is in God, even the whole universe and space is included in God's Being (Wujud). Newtonian physics was based on the notion that reality is comprised of basically two things: solid objects and empty space. But science had to bend down to Sufism on the advent of Einstein's theory of Relativity and Bohr's quantum theory. Says Talbot in MYSTICISM AND NEW PHYSICS: "However, empty space has lost its meaning in light of Einstein and the concept of solid objects has been virtually destroyed by the investigation of quantum theory... It was not until the turn of this century that science got its first peep into the structure of the atom. With the discovery of X-rays a virtual window was created into the world of the very small... The phenomenon of radioactivity provided positive proof that atoms are not the basic building blocks of matter, but composites, built of entities even smaller. "When Rutherford attacked tha atom with high speed alpha particles he found something totally unexpected. Far from being the solid and physical particles they were believed to be since the 5th century B.C., atoms turned out to consist of vast empty regions of space in which incredibly tiny particles -- electrons-- orbit around the nucleus... Subatomic units of matter simply do not behave like solid particles. Indeed, they appear to be abstract entitles... Depending upon how we look at it, a subatomic entity displays the properties of both a particle and a wave... in an attempt to understand a reality which does not easily accomodate words Heisenberg proposed that physicists should simply accept the complementarity or paradoxical aspect of subatomic entities and view them as wave/particle--entities.... By doing so Heisenberg was making a statement that belonged as much to mysticism as it did to the new physics. That is, the ultimate nature of reality is beyond verbal description. The greatest commonality in both mysticism and the new physics is that both point to the inadequacy of language.... Because electrons possess both the properties of a particle and a wave packet, they cannot be said to have distinct geographical locations. No physicist will ever "see" an electron or touch it. Not only is the universe queerer than we think, but it is queerer than we can think, confusion was further confounded when W.K.Clifford came out with the theory that matter was nothing more than empty, curved space. John Wheeler agreed with him. According to Wheeler the nothingness of space is the true building block of matter." To sum up, Talbot says: "In the new physics, matter and empty space thus become one and the same." This is what the Sufis say in regard to Wahdat-ul-Wujud. He says further: "But the matter does not end here. As particles were discovered to be more wave-like, phenomenon such as light, which had always been interpreted as a wave, became more and more particle like. The German physicist Max Planck suggested that light was discontinuous and consisted of small energy units called 'Quanta'." Einstein brougght us closer to figuring out the fundamental building blocks of matter when he discovered that light and matter are ultimately interchangable. The primordial substance of the universe appears to be these wave particles and quanta (light units). The riddle is solved by the following verse of the Quran: "ALLAH (GOD) IS THE LIGHT (SOUL) OF THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH." Now, since God's being is pure light (Nur) and since according to the cult of Wahdat-ul-Wujud (oneness of being), God's Being penetrates everything in the universe including space, the building blocks of the universe, which are notheing but God's Light which, on devolution, appeared in the form of wave-like particles or particle-like waves (as observed by the recent tests) penetrating the entire field of matter and space whose oneness has already been established by both the scientists and the Sufis. It is this light of the one Being which pervades everything like life or spirit on the body, acts as the gravitational force and holds the universe together. The Russian scientists have also established the oneness of matter and space and are now in search of the "Uniting Tissues", as they call it, which hold this vastly diverse universe together. This view of God's light (life, spirit) holding the universe together is perfectly in accord with the Quantum theory, theory of Relativity and the findings of renowned physicists like Rutherford, Heisenberg, Wheeler, Max Planck and others; and reconciles all these apparently irreconcilable theories and tends to weld them into one harmonious whole. In the Quran ther are many passages which throw a flood of light on the secrets of creation, which is the subject matter of scientists. Apparently the "uniting tissues" could be the force of gravity which so far nobody has been able to know the source of. Michale Talbot has quoted some Hindu source according to which "Silva's (God's) hairs" are holding the universe together. But it is an extremely vague proposition and cannot appeal to reason unless someone comes out to elaborate it. Whereas the doctrine of Sufic Wahdat- ul-Wujud (Oneness of Being) stands established from both the logical, scientific and metaphysical points of view. Moreover, it is not only a logical proposition. It is actual experience and spiritual perception and is within the reach of every human being to have it, not through intellect but actual vision and experience of the Immanence of God in every thing through Ain-ul-Yaqin (visual perception) and Haq-ul-Yaqin (Union or Identificaiton with the Divine Being). The gist fo Talbot's book, MYSTICISM AND NEW PHYSICS is this-- that the present state of uncertainty of science is the result of one-eyed observation of the universe, and the moment both the eyes (physical and spiritual) are utilized, the secrets of creation automatically unfold themselves. This is what Sufism claims. It aims at opening the inner spiritual eyes. When the inner eyes are opened, as done partially in Russia, contact is established with the Divine Being, and the secrets of the universe, mysteries of God and His attributes are known, and the purpose of human life together with the laws of human behavior are revealed. This sets at rest all the disputes and conflicts of the inhabitants of the earth, and universal peace and harmony is the result. It is then that the belligerents realize that they were really striving for the same destiny, but were fighting with one another in ignorance. Islam tells us that by heart everybody is Muslim, a lover of truth. Those who are non-believers are non-believers by brain not by heart. The moment truth is presented it is accepted. Says the Holy Quran: "THERE IS NO COMPULSION IN ISLAM." In fact compulsion is not needed. wasalaam, abdul ghani From tariqas-approval Sat Oct 7 15:20:02 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA05673; Sun, 8 Oct 1995 02:11:21 -0400 Received: from relay2.UU.NET by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA05665; Sun, 8 Oct 1995 02:11:20 -0400 Received: from netcom5.netcom.com by relay2.UU.NET with SMTP id QQzknd28932; Sun, 8 Oct 1995 01:22:07 -0400 Received: by netcom5.netcom.com (8.6.12/Netcom) id WAA16740; Sat, 7 Oct 1995 22:20:04 -0700 Date: Sat, 7 Oct 1995 22:20:02 -0700 (PDT) From: Steven Finkelman Subject: Re: many paths, One Goal To: tariqas@world.std.com Cc: tariqas@world.std.com In-Reply-To: <951007214731_118667551@mail06.mail.aol.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: On Sat, 7 Oct 1995 Abdlqadir@aol.com wrote: > Dear Steve, > > >To draw a distinction is to limit the heart. > > Perhaps, to draw the correct distinctions is to discover the boundaries of > the heart, and, then, to enable the heart to divest itself of illusion and > further expand. I like this, find the naf/seperation then divest onself of it. the heart expands. good. Hal From tariqas-approval Sun Oct 8 15:56:46 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA12326; Sun, 8 Oct 1995 15:56:46 -0400 Received: from juliet.logica.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA12312; Sun, 8 Oct 1995 15:56:44 -0400 Received: by juliet.logica.com; id UAA09997; Sun, 8 Oct 1995 20:56:43 +0100 Received: from carmen.logica.co.uk(158.234.8.100) by juliet.logica.com via smap (g3.0.3) id xma009994; Sun, 8 Oct 95 20:56:21 +0100 Received: from smtpmail.logica.com (mssmtp.logica.com [158.234.8.102]) by carmen.logica.co.uk (8.7.Beta.10/8.7.Beta.10) with SMTP id UAA29369 for ; Sun, 8 Oct 1995 20:56:36 +0100 (BST) Received: by smtpmail.logica.com with Microsoft Mail id <30783B0A@smtpmail.logica.com>; Sun, 08 Oct 95 20:56:42 bst From: Otersen Mathias To: "'tariqasmail'" Subject: Shut oneself off from other teachings...... Date: Sun, 08 Oct 95 20:35:00 bst Message-Id: <30783B0A@smtpmail.logica.com> Encoding: 57 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Dear Matthias, Re your message below, I am not sure what you mean by "totally off" or "off limits" but if the function of teachings (or Teachings) is to transform human beings for the better and to allow a sense of what is spiritual, divine, and sublimely beautiful about Reality to come across, why not be wise as once defined: Who is wise? The one who learns from all people. (I paraphrase.) Either way, may all people of all traditions come close to and enter the ineffable! Why shut outselves off from teachings that may deepen our own resonance with Truth? in peace for all beings, Jinavamsa Namaste Jinavamsa, I never intended shuting myself off from other teachings than Islam. My email may not be judged without its context. It's a comment on Fred Rice email stating what is required for "True Religion", namely 1. Believing in God. 2. Believing in the last Judgment and 3. doing good deeds. I started out with the traditional classification of other religions within Islam (I never stated that I agree with this classification) and then pointed out that within these criteria and those of Fred, Buddhism and Taoisme can not be true religions. In another email I stated that I firmly believe that Buddhism and Islam are equivalent. So what is the whole point of this dissertation? I just wanted to show that in order to judge a religion one ought to go to the basics. The criteria Fred gave are, however important, not the main point of Islam. The main point of Islam is the oneness of God. Just like the main point of Buddhism is "the non-dualistic nature of the Universe". (Exactly the same, but so nicely expressed in different terminology). Allah deserves gratitude for giving me all your attention, Salaam Alaikum wa Rahmat Allah wa Barakatuhu, Matthias. > > >Wa salaam, > >Matthias. > > > From tariqas-approval Sun Oct 8 17:05:55 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA05851; Sun, 8 Oct 1995 17:05:55 -0400 Received: from juliet.logica.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA05810; Sun, 8 Oct 1995 17:05:51 -0400 Received: by juliet.logica.com; id WAA10829; Sun, 8 Oct 1995 22:05:50 +0100 Received: from carmen.logica.co.uk(158.234.8.100) by juliet.logica.com via smap (g3.0.3) id xma010827; Sun, 8 Oct 95 22:05:36 +0100 Received: from smtpmail.logica.com (mssmtp.logica.com [158.234.8.102]) by carmen.logica.co.uk (8.7.Beta.10/8.7.Beta.10) with SMTP id WAA10119 for ; Sun, 8 Oct 1995 22:05:51 +0100 (BST) Received: by smtpmail.logica.com with Microsoft Mail id <30784B45@smtpmail.logica.com>; Sun, 08 Oct 95 22:05:57 bst From: Otersen Mathias To: "'tariqasmail'" Subject: RE: Re:Re:Nothing wrong Date: Sun, 08 Oct 95 22:01:00 bst Message-Id: <30784B45@smtpmail.logica.com> Encoding: 211 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Dear Mathias, Peace be with you! ==> Peace brother Rice, On Fri, 6 Oct 1995, Otersen Mathias wrote: > Dear Fred Rice, > > For a long time I knew that Islam formally divided people in three > categories: > > 1. The believers who serve Allah (=Muslims). > 2. People with believes that are almost to the point (Christians and Jews). > 3. People totally off (polytheists etc.). This is certainly how some have divided it. However, I don't believe this division came from a Sufi! Not all Muslims (including non-Sufis) would agree with this, of course, particularly # 3. For example, in the 10th century or so (give or take a couple of centuries :) there was a Muslim, al-Biruni, who studied the Hindu religion. He thought the Hindu religion was originally from the religion of Abraham (perhaps confusing "Brahmin" with "Ibrahim"). Others have considered Hinduism to be what is left of the original religion of Adam, due to its ancient origins. (You can read about this, for example, in the chapter called "The Islamic encounter of religions" in the book "Sufi Essays" (also published as "Living Islam") by Seyyed Hossein Nasr.) ==> First of all you should read my last mail to Jinavamsa. ==> I certainly know that there has been a lot of interaction between Islam and Hinduism in India. Sufism in those regions is heavily influenced by Hinduism. A nice fact: In India there is a special kind of (islamic) holyman no where to be found elsewhere: The fakir. His practices are a perfect copy of those of his hinduistic counterpart. He practices asceticism and sometimes even selfmutulation in orther to prove his devotion to God. > So Buddhism and Taoism are off limits. This can also be concluded from > you're criteria of minimal requirements for true believe: Believing in God, > Believing in Judgement day and doing good deeds. Though Buddhism is stricly > speaking not polytheistic in nature (Even the Gods and Goddesses in Tibitan > Prasangika Buddhism are more comparable to enlightened beings than deities > in the traditional sense), it has no concept for "God". I have only investigated Chan/Zen Buddhism to some extent, and cannot comment on other forms of Buddhism. ("Chan" Buddhism is the Chinese name, while "Zen" is the Japanese name.) One method of meditation in Chan/Zen Buddhism is the "Secret of the Golden Flower" method. The essence of this method is to focus on the very source of all your thoughts. What is the source of your thoughts? From a Sufi viewpoint, to my understanding (please correct me), when one purifies oneself the source of your thoughts and of the images you see is none other than from Allah. Therefore, seeking the _source_ of all thought through the "Secret of the Golden Flower" method seems to be a method similar to purifying your heart and seeking the One. (To find out more about this Buddhist technique, see "The Secret of the Golden Flower" translated by Thomas Cleary. _Do not_ even look at the version by Wilhelm and Jung, since it is completely wrong, as the notes in Cleary's translation make clear. The Sufi viewpoint I have gathered mainly from Jalaluddin Rumi and Ibn al-Arabi.) ==> In order to understand Zen, one ought to understand general Mahayana Buddhism. Without understanding Mahayana, understanding the essence of Zen can be a very hard thing. Westeners or practitioners of different religions sometimes make the mistake to take "Zen" as a very special form of buddhism, while it has a very understandable place within Mahayana Buddhism. It has been a protest form of 5th century Chinese Buddhism, which at that time evolved into complexer and complexer rituals and metaphysical descriptions of the world. Zen answer "to this obsession with detail", has been the reduction to the elementary aspects of mahayana: The guru as the only way of obtaining knowledge (Zen buddhism has never produced religious disertations! A zen buddhist believes that written language can not be used to transmit knowledge. It's to error prone to do so!), the central thesis of Mahayana Buddhism "the non-existence of inherent existence" and the very important thesis of "non-duality". It's special role within Mahayana is that it stresses the intuitive and not the logical. Within Zen knowledge is not obtained, it is "experienced". (This is kinda hard to explain: The main point is that meditation serves a major part in one's becoming convinced of the Buddhistic lemma's. This is also ultimately the point of the other Mahayana forms, but these first apply logic to convince the novice of the lemma's correctness). ==> So when a Zen buddhist meditates he applies certain methods to archieve results not unlike those of the other Mahayana forms, nl. breaking the illusion of his ego, trying to become one with the whole of the universe. When a buddhist aims his meditation at "the source of all his thoughts" nothing relevant within Western thought can be deducted. It's a nice try to think that this implies Allah, but something completely different is ment. (it's just unfair: Buddhists enjoy in their textbooks to confuse the uninitiated. A lot of terminology is used in abreviated form, seemingly implying something completely different. A nice example is "emptiness". It's almost always used in its abbreviated form. For decenia Westeners thought the essence of Buddhism was the not-being, extinguishing oneself out of the circle of existence. What however is ment is "emptiness of inherent existence", the thesis that "nothing exists without other things and that is the nature of existence". Extinguishing one out of the circle of lives is not the direct goal!!! You are probably very suprised to hear this. But if you like, I can explain this at a later time ***grinnn***). With "source of all thought" probably "Bodhichitta" is ment, the seed to budhahood. It's the essence of a sentient being, the part reportedly permanent and the true essence of the being. ==> You did however a very well job with the limited knowledge you have about buddhist doctrine and quite suprisingly you came up with a very "Hinduistic" interpretation of the whole. Within Brahmanism one tries to clear away all things related to the impermanent to finally only experience Brahma. The idea is that when one takes away all "impermanent" only God will remain. (the funny part: In the first and second century AD Buddhist schools heavily opposed this thought based one the view that there is no difference between the permanent and the impermanent). ==> A final remark with regard to this: I've been a buddhist and as such I have developed my knowledge. I do not consider myself to be a buddhist anymore since I'm convinced that it's yet another way to experience the "Ultimate" and that in order to experience it one needn't do much (At least not as much as is expected from of Buddhist Scholar). Though Buddhist texts do not talk about "God", they do talk about the "Absolute" and about "Reality" and this is very similar, in my humble experience, to what is the true meaning of "God". Allah knows best, may He guide us! ==> I believe that buddhism and Islam are equivalent. But this only after having done extensive research beyond the surface. In order to make this mail not too long: The center of my finding is that the "state of nirvana" and "Allah" are one and the same thing. The syntax of both religions couldn't be more different, the semantic is the same. (By the way: I do not differenciate between true religions and untrue religions. I differenciate between the true and untrue in a religion). > Also there can not > be such a thing as "Judgement day" in Buddhism since "existence of temporal > things" is defined as having no beginning and no end. This does appear to be different, I agree, with "exoteric" Islam. But I cannot say I have studied Buddhism to a great extent. ==> I did..... However, I have studied Taoism much deeper.... ==> I didn't..... > About Taoism I can > only state that it's animistic in nature and thus totally incomparable with > the great semitic religions... There are two "Taoisms" -- often called "philosophical" Taoism and "popular" Taoism. The popular form is undoubtedly polytheistic etc. However, when you look at the main Taoist text, the Tao Te Ching, there is no polytheism in this text. It is all centered on one thing -- the Tao. The Tao is a different perspective of "God", but it is the same thing nevertheless. "Philosophical" Taoism I think seems more close to the Taoist texts, which is again closer to Islamic teachings. To be honest, I see little contradiction between the Tao Te Ching and the teachings of the Qur'an, though they do use different language and imagery in their teaching. (This, though, is to be expected even if it is the same religion, since they are being explained in the context of different cultures.) ==> I just know Tao from my Chinese friends, all supporters of the more popular version (what can be expected, they are not obsessed with religion ***grinn***). Taoism seems very nature-based, using nature as a role-model for life. This message is also contained in the Qur'an. The Qur'an says, in many passages, that the various phenomena of nature are the signs, or "ayat", of God. This word "ayat" is the same word used for the verses of the Qur'an. The implication is that you can study nature and read it like a book, and learn from it, and get closer to your Creator through it, just as you can study the verses of the Qur'an. Taoism seems to me to be an embodiment of this aspect of the Qur'an's teachings, which is also emphasized in some Sufi teaching. Thus, personally, I believe the essence of Taoist teachings is actually also contained in the Qur'an. (This "sacred" aspect of nature has also been written about by Seyyed Hossein Nasr, in some of his books like "Man and nature" and I think there may also be a chapter on it in his book "Islamic life and thought.") ==> Eastern philosophies have always placed the humans in "nature". It's typical for christianity to place humans above the natural world and giving them the right to use it as they please. To a certain degree this also holds for Islam. ISlam has however been fortunate to be influenced by classical greek thought in its beginning phase. The greek giving philosophy and "trying to understand nature in order to understand themselves" a central place in their thought. Allah knows best, may He guide us all and increase us in knowledge. ==> Bismillah, Wassalam, Fred Rice ==> See you, Matthias. From tariqas-approval Mon Oct 9 11:25:24 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA15777; Mon, 9 Oct 1995 05:22:32 -0400 Received: from studm.hrz.uni-siegen.de by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA15717; Mon, 9 Oct 1995 05:22:16 -0400 Received: by studm.hrz.uni-siegen.de (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA01014; Mon, 9 Oct 1995 10:25:25 +0100 From: gassner@studm.hrz.uni-siegen.de (gassner) Message-Id: <9510090925.AA01014@studm.hrz.uni-siegen.de> Subject: Re: think i can help you To: tariqas@world.std.com Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 10:25:24 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <9510070403.AA05708@cwis.unomaha.edu> from "Richard Bennett" at Oct 6, 95 11:03:03 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 805 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: asalaam Dear Abdul Ghani, I would be pleased to know more between the relationship of Sufism and Western Science and the Relation of Islam and science in the past of the Culture of the Arabs. Whoever is rich enough to give some ideas and answers to the question is welcomed. ma a salaam, Saleh> > asalaam > > dear sister natalie: > > i think that i can help you...perhaps if i write you a passagefrom my sheiks > book titled ISLAMIC SUFISM by capt. wahid bakhsh rabbani..there is a> > subheading titled : science surrendering to sufism that discusses sufis > and the new physics...not complicated reading really but very deep in > its implications. > > let me know if you are interested and i will, inshallah, write it for you and > the others on the net. > > wasalaam > > abdul ghani> From tariqas-approval Mon Oct 9 11:32:25 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA16762; Mon, 9 Oct 1995 05:29:59 -0400 Received: from studm.hrz.uni-siegen.de by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA16685; Mon, 9 Oct 1995 05:29:12 -0400 Received: by studm.hrz.uni-siegen.de (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA01097; Mon, 9 Oct 1995 10:32:25 +0100 From: gassner@studm.hrz.uni-siegen.de (gassner) Message-Id: <9510090932.AA01097@studm.hrz.uni-siegen.de> Subject: Re: Nothing wrong To: tariqas@world.std.com Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 10:32:25 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <009977AB.8A6F599F.20@hg.uleth.ca> from "pavlna@hg.uleth.ca" at Oct 6, 95 07:36:48 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 178 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Asaalam u alaikum, Who knows already the book of Sachiko Murata: The Tao of Islam? I would to know which book might be the better introduction to this theme. maa salam Saleh From tariqas-approval Mon Oct 9 13:02:12 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA05343; Mon, 9 Oct 1995 07:25:27 -0400 Received: from relay-3.mail.demon.net (post.demon.co.uk) by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA05321; Mon, 9 Oct 1995 07:25:23 -0400 Received: from amwal.demon.co.uk by relay-3.mail.demon.net id ac15617; 9 Oct 95 12:03 +0100 X-Sender: (Unverified) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 12:02:12 +0100 To: tariqas@world.std.com From: Hussein Ahmes Khalifa Subject: Re: Hakeem Tirmidhi on Jihad Al-Nafs Message-Id: <9510091203.ac15617@relay-3.mail.demon.net> Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: One of the passages quoted in Tirmidhi's "Concerning the Welfare= of the Heart=8A" as quoted by Fouad Haddad has got me thinking over the= last several days, raising more questions than it answers (which is in itself= perhaps a very good thing). The section I refer to is: "For when someone forbids his ego the enjoyment of worldly pleasures and, on the other hand, indulges it with the enjoyment of religion, as in good works and devotions, the ego will still be pleased, and therefore remain alive and well. The reason is that that person's vain passions continue to be part of every one of his good works. For all his efforts, he remains a confused and sinful person. If he stops his efforts his stains will surely remain with him, and he will never reach God Most High through mistakes and vain passions. That is why God said: "Strive for God to your utmost power" (al-Hajj 78). One's "utmost power" means the eradication of every joy of the ego whether in religion or in the world. Since one finds pleasure in every good work, and since passion remains a party to each of them, it is clear that such acts are not purely for the sake of God. It then becomes a duty to turn to some other action that will preclude the pleasure of the ego. If one does that to his utmost strength and capability, God Most High will thank him in this world, and he whom God thanks, God opens his heart for His light. When that light ascends in the breast, the ego finds in such gifts all that it could not find before, when it was distracted by the pleasures and delights of the world. Then the need arises to guard the ego lest it start deriving from these gifts a pleasure which will entrap and kill its owner. =46or when the ego finds pleasure in the gifts of God, it prospers and revels after having withered and languished, and there is the greatest danger. That is where the majority of the wayfarers of the heart to God have fallen prey to the ego's treachery." Now the idea is that many followers of the Path strive to do good= deeds because they derive pleasure from it, and this feeds the ego. I vaguely remember a Hadith or story about how the Prophet (SAWS) said that= the three "material" things that he loved on earth above all else (or his earthly weaknesses) were the beauty of women, the scent of good attar (perfume)= and the act of prayer. Focusing on the last of these, the Prophet did= get pleasure from this act of worship. Since he was closer than any to= Allah, there was clearly a union or at least a great love experienced in= his salat from which pleasure was derived. Leaving aside the question of the Prophet's successful annihilation of his ego, when others strive= to get closer to Allah, is it not the ego that will experiences the pleasure= of the love associated with the knowledge of God?=20 If it isn't - fair enough if the ego is annihilated - then why does Tirmidhi say that we are feeding our ego when we derive some pleasure= from good deeds? Surely most of us have experienced different feelings when we do= some small act of charity or a good turn. Sometimes we feel good but then realize= that this is merely satisfying our ego. We gave money or helped somebody= because in our minds it conferred some type of glory, either through the= gratitude of the recipient or through the perverse feeling of satisfaction= that we feel knowing that we did something good without anyone noticing.= After a while however, we feel empty, like the end of a drug-induced trip= (?!) On the other hand, sometimes we do something because it is right or= out of a kind of love for God. We feel good in a totally different way and= the feeling doesn't fade away very quickly. We can't explain the difference= or the feelings very clearly: its just one of those things. Is this= second feeling not different from feeding the ego as described by Tirmidhi? I'm sorry if my question is confused, but I am. Salam, Hussein From tariqas-approval Mon Oct 9 13:02:22 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA10614; Mon, 9 Oct 1995 07:46:49 -0400 Received: from relay-3.mail.demon.net (post.demon.co.uk) by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA10595; Mon, 9 Oct 1995 07:46:46 -0400 Received: from amwal.demon.co.uk by relay-3.mail.demon.net id aa15642; 9 Oct 95 12:03 +0100 X-Sender: (Unverified) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 12:02:22 +0100 To: tariqas@world.std.com From: Hussein Ahmes Khalifa Subject: Fasting Message-Id: <9510091203.aa15642@relay-3.mail.demon.net> Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: In many texts there are references to people fasting for what seem= to be extremely long periods, often 40 days, this often associated with= a particular process of fan'a or annihilation (of the ego). Now does= this mean continuous fasting =E0 la hunger strikers, or regular dawn to= dusk fasting?=20 If it is the second case, this is like the normal Ramadan fasting= with the extra Shawwal fasting, and is nothing extraordinary. If it is something closer to a long-term abstinence from food, is this in accordance= with Ramadan fasting principles which (I remember being constantly told)forbid consecutive fasting days without iftar between them? I remember being= told that one had to break one's fast before praying the maghreb. One story I read in a book several years ago covering among other= things djinns and angels, had a description from an old text of how a long-term fast (of the difficult type for 40 days) combined with prayer and= certain du'a or supplications would allow the murid to see djinns. Hunger= striking with continuous activity like the high altitude fasts and meditations= of the Tibetan lamas would IMHO induce hallucinatory apparitions. Does= anyone else know of any other references to these fasts and their place= in the rituals of any particular tariqa? If so, how does this fit in with= the coventional advice on fasting? Salam, Hussein From tariqas-approval Mon Oct 9 16:43:08 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA17171; Mon, 9 Oct 1995 10:40:14 -0400 Received: from studm.hrz.uni-siegen.de by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA17005; Mon, 9 Oct 1995 10:40:02 -0400 Received: by studm.hrz.uni-siegen.de (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA05529; Mon, 9 Oct 1995 15:43:08 +0100 From: gassner@studm.hrz.uni-siegen.de (gassner) Message-Id: <9510091443.AA05529@studm.hrz.uni-siegen.de> Subject: Re: Fasting To: tariqas@world.std.com Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 15:43:08 +0100 (MET) In-Reply-To: <9510091203.aa15642@relay-3.mail.demon.net> from "Hussein Ahmes Khalifa" at Oct 9, 95 12:02:22 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Content-Type: text Content-Length: 1667 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: bismillah, Even if you are breaking your fasting every iftar I have in mind that it is forbidden to doe it constantly only every second day. But I am indeed not sure. maa salam Saleh > > In many texts there are references to people fasting for what seem= > to be > extremely long periods, often 40 days, this often associated with= > a > particular process of fan'a or annihilation (of the ego). Now does= > this > mean continuous fasting =E0 la hunger strikers, or regular dawn to= > dusk > fasting?=20 > > If it is the second case, this is like the normal Ramadan fasting= > with the > extra Shawwal fasting, and is nothing extraordinary. If it is something > closer to a long-term abstinence from food, is this in accordance= > with > Ramadan fasting principles which (I remember being constantly told)forbid > consecutive fasting days without iftar between them? I remember being= > told > that one had to break one's fast before praying the maghreb. > > One story I read in a book several years ago covering among other= > things > djinns and angels, had a description from an old text of how a long-term > fast (of the difficult type for 40 days) combined with prayer and= > certain > du'a or supplications would allow the murid to see djinns. Hunger= > striking > with continuous activity like the high altitude fasts and meditations= > of > the Tibetan lamas would IMHO induce hallucinatory apparitions. Does= > anyone > else know of any other references to these fasts and their place= > in the > rituals of any particular tariqa? If so, how does this fit in with= > the > coventional advice on fasting? > > Salam, > Hussein > > > From tariqas-approval Mon Oct 9 03:13:19 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA06373; Mon, 9 Oct 1995 13:13:36 -0400 Received: from lafn.org by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA06304; Mon, 9 Oct 1995 13:13:31 -0400 Received: by lafn.org id AA08303 (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for tariqas@world.std.com); Mon, 9 Oct 1995 10:13:19 -0700 Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 10:13:19 -0700 Message-Id: <199510091713.AA08303@lafn.org> From: an525@lafn.org (Ivan Ickovits) To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: Fasting Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Bismillah/B'shem Yah: Dear friends: Fasting as I understand it in many of the traditions is a regular activity of those on a specific retreat, re: Musa, Isa, ELijah/Khidr, Buddha, Muhammed, (Peace and Blessings upon all) etc. Within the traditional calender year of those following the tariqa of Judaism is the 40 day retreat starting on the new moon befor Rosh Ha shanah and culminating on Yom Ha Kippurim. It has been a regular activity of some ascetics on this path to emulate the forty day retreat in fasting, with a variety of austerities, etc. - But it is not a religious requirement. These fasts I have been told were total -- no food or water for that time -- darn't if I can understand rationally how that is possible. I am sure many of us have heard of the retreat of GanjiShakar or his ilk suspended forty days by a rope in a well -- fasting upside down trying to reach illumination or Tawhid. There are many prohibitions in Shariat of all traditions about following such practices to extremes and one can easily note they are not for everyone, with admonitions for regular one day fasts peppered with shariat like rules such as It is as great a blessing to eat heartily on the day before or after a fast as to partake of the fast or one is thus twice blessed in fasting. but we find many examples of those who clearly have stepped outside the boundaries of Shariat in their vision of the pursuit of a glimpse of the beloved or even the garment if not the thrones and not settled for the convewntionsl wisdom. ALLAH/YHVH surely knows each individuals unique path and mercifully reveals and conceals that which (S)He wills. Raqib in Santa Monica >bismillah, > >Even if you are breaking your fasting every iftar I have in mind that it is >forbidden to doe it constantly only every second day. But I am indeed not >sure. > >maa salam > >Saleh >> >> In many texts there are references to people fasting for what seem= >> to be >> extremely long periods, often 40 days, this often associated with= >> a >> particular process of fan'a or annihilation (of the ego). Now does= >> this >> mean continuous fasting =E0 la hunger strikers, or regular dawn to= >> dusk >> fasting?=20 >> >> If it is the second case, this is like the normal Ramadan fasting= >> with the >> extra Shawwal fasting, and is nothing extraordinary. If it is something >> closer to a long-term abstinence from food, is this in accordance= >> with >> Ramadan fasting principles which (I remember being constantly told)forbid >> consecutive fasting days without iftar between them? I remember being= >> told >> that one had to break one's fast before praying the maghreb. >> >> One story I read in a book several years ago covering among other= >> things >> djinns and angels, had a description from an old text of how a long-term >> fast (of the difficult type for 40 days) combined with prayer and= >> certain >> du'a or supplications would allow the murid to see djinns. Hunger= >> striking >> with continuous activity like the high altitude fasts and meditations= >> of >> the Tibetan lamas would IMHO induce hallucinatory apparitions. Does= >> anyone >> else know of any other references to these fasts and their place= >> in the >> rituals of any particular tariqa? If so, how does this fit in with= >> the >> coventional advice on fasting? >> >> Salam, >> Hussein -- q k From tariqas-approval Mon Oct 9 10:00:55 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA12817; Mon, 9 Oct 1995 14:05:23 -0400 Received: from emout04.mail.aol.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA12783; Mon, 9 Oct 1995 14:05:21 -0400 Received: by emout04.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id OAA24542 for tariqas@world.std.com; Mon, 9 Oct 1995 14:00:55 -0400 Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 14:00:55 -0400 From: ASHA101@aol.com Message-Id: <951009140052_119650116@emout04.mail.aol.com> To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: Hakeem Tirmidhi on Jihad Al-Nafs Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: There are two thoughts - one needs to rise above personal pleasure and one ought to dive into the true depth of the pleasure of this earth as god has made it good. Both are true and both must exist at the same time, this is unity. The unfortunate fact is that the first view, which is typicaly the masculine or hierachical view and is associated with killing of the ego in the light of Allah, has dominated and thus unballenced the natural sense of unity gained by association with the latter view which is associated with the rebirth of the ego as Allah experiences him/her self as us. How can one be bound by the "other" (metaphorically speaking this earth) and also bound by the One (metaphorically speaking above the earth)? Ask Mansur al Hallaj when he said "It suffices if God alone unifies the mistic in His Unity (wahid-wajid). It is loosing one's self but it is also a discovering of one's self. It is the death of anihilation and the rebirth of resurection. It is life and death toghether. It is the darkness oblliterated in the light and it is the light brought into the the dark. These are all subjects traditional to sufism, though in much of our tradtional mysticism (as elsewhere in the world) there has been an unfortunate tendancy to dominate the feminine aspect of fanna. love Asha From tariqas-approval Mon Oct 9 11:01:08 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA21520; Mon, 9 Oct 1995 16:01:19 -0400 Received: from UNiX.asb.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA21459; Mon, 9 Oct 1995 16:01:17 -0400 Received: from sle6.asb.com (sle6.asb.com [165.254.128.76]) by UNiX.asb.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA06254; Mon, 9 Oct 1995 16:01:08 -0500 Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 16:01:08 -0500 Message-Id: <199510092101.QAA06254@UNiX.asb.com> X-Sender: f_haddad@unix.asb.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@world.std.com From: f_haddad@unix.asb.com (Fouad Haddad) Subject: [1] Adam and Eve Cc: mateens@sybase.com X-Mailer: Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: [1] Adam and Eve ================ Angels and the Creation of Adam Excerpt from Shaykh Hisham Kabbani's <>, KAZI 1995. 2:31-33: "And He taught Adam all the names, then showed them to the angels, saying: Inform Me of the names of these, if ye are truthful. They said: Be glorified! We have no knowledge save what Thou hast taught us. Lo! Thou, only Thou, art the Knower, the Wise. He said: O Adam! Inform them of their names..." 2:34: "And when We said unto the angels: Prostrate yourselves before Adam, they fell prostrate, all save Iblis. He demurred through pride, and so became a disbeliever." 7:11: "And We created you, then fashioned you, then told the angels: Fall ye prostrate before Adam! And they fell prostrate, all save Iblis, who was not of those who make prostration." 15:28-31: "And remember when thy Lord said unto the angels: Lo! I am creating a mortal out of potter's clay of black mud altered. So, when I have made him and breathed into him of My spirit, do ye fall down, prostrating yourselves unto him. So the angels fell prostrate, all of them together save Iblis. He refused to be among the prostrate." 17:61: "And when We said unto the angels: Fall down prostrate before Adam and they fell prostrate all save Iblis, he said: Shall I fall prostrate before that which Thou hast created of clay?" 18:50: "And remember when We said unto the angels: Fall prostrate before Adam and they fell prostrate, all save Iblis. He was of the Jinn, so he rebelled against his Lord's command." 20:116: "And when We said unto the angels: Fall prostrate before Adam, they fell prostrate all save Iblis; he refused." 38:71-73: "When thy Lord said unto the angels: lo! I am about to create a mortal out of mire, and when I have fashioned him and breathed into him of My spirit, then fall down before him prostrate, the angels fell down prostrate, every one." God taught Adam the names of everything in creation: the inner nature and the outer, qualities and quantities, and the secret of all existence. It is by virtue of this knowledge that He elevated him to a state of purity and perfected him to reach the divine knowledge from which angels derive the nectar of their own knowledge. God thus enabled Adam to teach and inform the angels, although he was created after them. These verses point to the essence of the human condition, whereby human beings can reach a station where they command angelic power. They teach us that angels can take the form of human beings, and that human beings can purify themselves to the point of carrying angelic attributes. God has placed the angels at the service of His beloved creation, and caused them to appear to mankind and help them. This is symbolized by their prostration to Adam. It was Adam whom God chose as His viceroy on earth and not the angels. "And had We willed We could have set among you angels to be viceroys in the earth" (43:60). Many stories illustrate this angelic service to humankind in the following pages. It is related that when Adam approached death he assembled his children and he told them that he desired to taste of the fruit of Paradise again. All his children went in search of such fruit. The angels knew that Adam was going to die. They received his children with heavenly shrouds in their hands and water from the rivers of Paradise for Adam's final ablution. Adam's children were surprized. "How did you know that our father was ill?" The angels replied: "What are you looking for?" The children answered that their father was sick and that he desired a fruit of Paradise. "Perhaps that will heal him," they said. The angels told them: "O children of Adam! Paradise was created for you. We are but the caretakers of that place for you. How can the owners ask permission from the caretakers? But if you wish to enter it again, you have to come back to the divine presence and reclaim your angelic reality as before." "How can we do that?" asked the children of Adam. The angels replied: "You have to long earnestly to meet your Lord, and he will teach you the way back to Him." "And then?" asked the children of Adam. The angels said, "Then, you have to enter through the door of death." When Adam died, the angels came down and buried him themselves, showing his children the manner of this ritual and teaching it to them for the first time. After that, the sun and the moon were eclipsed for seven days and seven nights. From tariqas-approval Mon Oct 9 11:01:47 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA21973; Mon, 9 Oct 1995 16:02:07 -0400 Received: from UNiX.asb.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA21940; Mon, 9 Oct 1995 16:02:03 -0400 Received: from sle6.asb.com (sle6.asb.com [165.254.128.76]) by UNiX.asb.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA06264 for ; Mon, 9 Oct 1995 16:01:47 -0500 Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 16:01:47 -0500 Message-Id: <199510092101.QAA06264@UNiX.asb.com> X-Sender: f_haddad@unix.asb.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: tariqas@world.std.com From: f_haddad@unix.asb.com (Fouad Haddad) Subject: Re: Hakeem Tirmidhi on Jihad Al-Nafs X-Mailer: Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: Hussein writes: >Now the idea is that many followers of the Path strive to do good deeds >because they derive pleasure from it, and this feeds the ego. I vaguely >remember a Hadith or story about how the Prophet (SAWS) said that the three >"material" things that he loved on earth above all else (or his earthly >weaknesses) were Actually <> > the beauty of women, the scent of good attar (perfume) and >the act of prayer. <>. >Focusing on the last of these, the Prophet did get >pleasure from this act of worship. Since he was closer than any to Allah, >there was clearly a union or at least a great love experienced in his salat >from which pleasure was derived. Leaving aside the question of the >Prophet's successful annihilation of his ego, when others strive to get >closer to Allah, is it not the ego that will experiences the pleasure of >the love associated with the knowledge of God? >If it isn't - fair enough if the ego is annihilated - then why does >Tirmidhi say that we are feeding our ego when we derive some pleasure from >good deeds? You cannot leave aside what is the essence and goal of the action of prayer in the first place! But I understand what you are driving at and it is indeed not only permissible but an obligation to feel pleasure at obeying God, as the Prophet (s) said: <> What Hakeem Tirmidhi is dissecting, however, is the secret pride and unbecoming self-satisfaction of the ego at certain acts which, because they concern prayer and worship, routinely pass the gauntlet of conscience and claim truthfulness. I heard my Shaykh time and again say that sincerity is not verified by doing what you like, including acts of worship. This is a common theme of sufi knowledge: piety is obedience not habit, and a timely adaptation to the highest form of obedience in each time and place. Suhrawardi mentions it in <<`Awarif al-ma`arif>>, which is available in English in two translations. (Again, this is not to say that habit and pleasure have no place.) About the hadith that you first mentioned, I heard great wonders from my shaykh, particularly the part on women. But I feel that I am not qualified to quote it as I do not quite understand it myself. What I am sure of, is that it does not refer to a mere sensual attraction to women and perfume (no more than the pleasure of prayer is sensual), and much less to an "earthly weakness." The following is copied from Aisha Bewley's translation of Qadi Iyad's treasurable book about the Prophet (s) entitled <> (English title: Muhammad, Messenger of God"): (p. 277) "[The prophets'] outward form, bodies and structure are characterized by the qualities of men as far as non-essential matters such as illnesses, death and passing awa are concerned and they have human traits. "But their soul and inward parts have the highest possible human qualities, associated with the Highest Assembly [those brought near to God], which are similar to angelic attributes, free of any possibility of alteration or evil. Generally speaking the incapacity and weakness connected with being human cannot be associated with them. If their inward parts had been human in the same way as their outward, they would not have been able to receive revelation from the angels, see them, mix and sit with them in the way other mortals are unable to do... "Thus they have the aspect of men as far as their bodies and outward parts are concerned, and that of angelks in respect of their souls and inward parts." Blessings and Peace on the Truthful and Trustworthy Prophet, his Family, and his Companions. Fouad Haddad Naqshbandi-Haqqani Foundation URL: http://www.best.com/~informe/mateen/haqqani.html [in 9 languages] From tariqas-approval Mon Oct 9 16:12:51 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA29712; Mon, 9 Oct 1995 16:12:51 -0400 Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 16:12:51 -0400 Message-Id: <199510092012.AA29712@world.std.com> To: tariqas-approval@world.std.com From: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Subject: BOUNCE tariqas@world.std.com: Admin request Status: RO X-Status: >From jharding@ccat.sas.upenn.edu Mon Oct 9 12:12:51 1995 Return-Path: Received: from CCAT.SAS.UPENN.EDU by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA29618; Mon, 9 Oct 1995 16:12:43 -0400 Received: (from jharding@localhost) by ccat.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.12/CCAT) id QAA23640 for tariqas@world.std.com; Mon, 9 Oct 1995 16:12:51 -0400 From: John Harding Message-Id: <199510092012.QAA23640@ccat.sas.upenn.edu> To: tariqas@world.std.com Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 16:12:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23-upenn2.9] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 23 subscribe John Harding From tariqas-approval Mon Oct 9 13:31:49 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA21100; Mon, 9 Oct 1995 17:31:52 -0400 Received: from mail06.mail.aol.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA21074; Mon, 9 Oct 1995 17:31:50 -0400 Received: by mail06.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id RAA01307 for tariqas@world.std.com; Mon, 9 Oct 1995 17:31:49 -0400 Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 17:31:49 -0400 From: Hafizullah@aol.com Message-Id: <951009173123_119812883@mail06.mail.aol.com> To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: Fasting Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: In a message dated 95-10-09 13:25:00 EDT, you write: >These fasts I have been told were total -- no food >or water for that time -- darn't if I can understand rationally how that >is possible. Probably no coffee either. I don't think I could do it . Seriously, I've experienced on retreat a reduced need for food and sleep -- eventually. Takes a while for direct-energy-intake to kick in. Mayhap the practices, or more precisely, one's state of breath and consciousness, is the critical factor. From tariqas-approval Mon Oct 9 15:14:47 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA29067; Mon, 9 Oct 1995 19:14:50 -0400 Received: from mail06.mail.aol.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA29056; Mon, 9 Oct 1995 19:14:49 -0400 Received: by mail06.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id TAA06364 for tariqas@world.std.com; Mon, 9 Oct 1995 19:14:47 -0400 Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 19:14:47 -0400 From: Jinavamsa@aol.com Message-Id: <951009191441_40292974@mail06.mail.aol.com> To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: Shut oneself off from other teachings...... Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: and thank you Mathias, for placing your comments in context (yes, absolutely essential in some situations to know what the point of the comment is, ... as here), and I see the equivalence you refer to, in such different clothing, though! May all holy wars be against the self between one's ribs, may all beings ultimately transcend even self-war, in peace, Jinavamsa In a message dated 95-10-08 16:00:12 EDT, you write: >oneself off from other teachings...... >Date: 95-10-08 16:00:12 EDT >From: MAO@lbvwrda.logica.com (Otersen Mathias) >Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com >Reply-to: tariqas@world.std.com >To: tariqas@world.std.com ('tariqasmail') > > > >Dear Matthias, >Re your message below, I am not sure what you mean by "totally off" or "off >limits" but if the function of teachings (or Teachings) is to transform >human >beings for the better and to allow a sense of what is spiritual, divine, and >sublimely beautiful about Reality to come across, why not be wise as once >defined: Who is wise? The one who learns from all people. (I paraphrase.) >Either way, may all people of all traditions come close to and enter the >ineffable! >Why shut outselves off from teachings that may deepen our own resonance with >Truth? >in peace for all beings, >Jinavamsa > >Namaste Jinavamsa, > >I never intended shuting myself off from other teachings than Islam. My >email may not be judged without its context. It's a comment on Fred Rice >email stating what is required for "True Religion", namely 1. Believing in >God. 2. Believing in the last Judgment and 3. doing good deeds. > >I started out with the traditional classification of other religions within >Islam (I never stated that I agree with this classification) and then >pointed out that within these criteria and those of Fred, Buddhism and >Taoisme can not be true religions. > >In another email I stated that I firmly believe that Buddhism and Islam are >equivalent. > >So what is the whole point of this dissertation? I just wanted to show that >in order to judge a religion one ought to go to the basics. The criteria >Fred gave are, however important, not the main point of Islam. The main >point of Islam is the oneness of God. Just like the main point of Buddhism >is "the non-dualistic nature of the Universe". (Exactly the same, but so >nicely expressed in different terminology). > >Allah deserves gratitude for giving me all your attention, > >Salaam Alaikum wa Rahmat Allah wa Barakatuhu, > >Matthias. > > > > >> >> >>Wa salaam, >> >>Matthias. >> >> >> > > > > >----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- >From tariqas-approval@world.std.com Sun Oct 8 15:59:46 1995 >Return-Path: tariqas-approval@world.std.com >Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [192.74.137.10]) by >emin09.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with ESMTP id PAA05329; Sun, 8 Oct 1995 >15:59:45 -0400 >Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.6.12/Spike-8-1.0) > id PAA08474; Sun, 8 Oct 1995 15:56:49 -0400 >Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) > id AA12326; Sun, 8 Oct 1995 15:56:46 -0400 >Received: from juliet.logica.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) > id AA12312; Sun, 8 Oct 1995 15:56:44 -0400 >Received: by juliet.logica.com; id UAA09997; Sun, 8 Oct 1995 20:56:43 +0100 >Received: from carmen.logica.co.uk(158.234.8.100) by juliet.logica.com via >smap (g3.0.3) > id xma009994; Sun, 8 Oct 95 20:56:21 +0100 >Received: from smtpmail.logica.com (mssmtp.logica.com [158.234.8.102]) by >carmen.logica.co.uk (8.7.Beta.10/8.7.Beta.10) with SMTP id UAA29369 for >; Sun, 8 Oct 1995 20:56:36 +0100 (BST) >Received: by smtpmail.logica.com with Microsoft Mail > id <30783B0A@smtpmail.logica.com>; Sun, 08 Oct 95 20:56:42 bst >From: Otersen Mathias >To: "'tariqasmail'" >Subject: Shut oneself off from other teachings...... >Date: Sun, 08 Oct 95 20:35:00 bst >Message-Id: <30783B0A@smtpmail.logica.com> >Encoding: 57 TEXT >X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 >Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com >Precedence: bulk >Reply-To: tariqas@world.std.com From tariqas-approval Mon Oct 9 15:15:13 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA29355; Mon, 9 Oct 1995 19:15:16 -0400 Received: from emout05.mail.aol.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA29326; Mon, 9 Oct 1995 19:15:14 -0400 Received: by emout05.mail.aol.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id TAA00986 for tariqas@world.std.com; Mon, 9 Oct 1995 19:15:13 -0400 Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 19:15:13 -0400 From: Jinavamsa@aol.com Message-Id: <951009191512_40293365@emout05.mail.aol.com> To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: Hakeem Tirmidhi on Jihad Al-Nafs Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: dear Asha, good to see from you again. the way you describe below is a very full way to experience Reality! thank you. in peace, Jinavamsa In a message dated 95-10-09 14:14:13 EDT, you write: >ubj: Re: Hakeem Tirmidhi on Jihad Al-Nafs >Date: 95-10-09 14:14:13 EDT >From: ASHA101@aol.com >Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com >Reply-to: tariqas@world.std.com >To: tariqas@world.std.com > >There are two thoughts - one needs to rise above personal pleasure and one >ought to dive into the true depth of the pleasure of this earth as god has >made it good. Both are true and both must exist at the same time, this is >unity. > The unfortunate fact is that the first view, which is typicaly the >masculine or hierachical view and is associated with killing of the ego in >the light of Allah, has dominated and thus unballenced the natural sense of >unity gained by association with the latter view which is associated with the >rebirth of the ego as Allah experiences him/her self as us. > How can one be bound by the "other" (metaphorically speaking this earth) >and also bound by the One (metaphorically speaking above the earth)? Ask >Mansur al Hallaj when he said "It suffices if God alone unifies the mistic in >His Unity (wahid-wajid). It is loosing one's self but it is also a >discovering of one's self. It is the death of anihilation and the rebirth of >resurection. It is life and death toghether. It is the darkness oblliterated >in the light and it is the light brought into the the dark. These are all >subjects traditional to sufism, though in much of our tradtional mysticism >(as elsewhere in the world) there has been an unfortunate tendancy to >dominate the feminine aspect of fanna. > love Asha From tariqas-approval Tue Oct 10 00:11:26 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA26203; Tue, 10 Oct 1995 00:11:26 -0400 Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 00:11:26 -0400 Message-Id: <199510100411.AA26203@world.std.com> To: tariqas-approval@world.std.com From: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Subject: BOUNCE tariqas@world.std.com: Admin request Status: RO X-Status: >From lowensch@sas.upenn.edu Mon Oct 9 20:11:23 1995 Return-Path: Received: from MAIL1.SAS.UPENN.EDU by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA26181; Tue, 10 Oct 1995 00:11:24 -0400 Received: (from lowensch@localhost) by mail1.sas.upenn.edu (8.6.11/SAS 8.03) id AAA11482 for tariqas@world.std.com; Tue, 10 Oct 1995 00:11:23 -0400 From: lowensch@sas.upenn.edu (Alan Lowenschuss) Posted-Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 00:11:23 -0400 Message-Id: <199510100411.AAA11482@mail1.sas.upenn.edu> To: tariqas@world.std.com Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 00:11:23 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23-upenn2.9] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 27 subscribe alan lowenschuss From tariqas-approval Mon Oct 9 16:30:06 1995 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA04254; Tue, 10 Oct 1995 02:30:15 -0400 Received: from homer12.u.washington.edu by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA04244; Tue, 10 Oct 1995 02:30:13 -0400 Received: by homer12.u.washington.edu (5.65+UW95.09/UW-NDC Revision: 2.33 ) id AA59467; Mon, 9 Oct 95 23:30:11 -0700 X-Sender: lilyan@homer12.u.washington.edu Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 23:30:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Lilyan Ila To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: Hakeem Tirmidhi on Jihad Al-Nafs In-Reply-To: <951009191512_40293365@emout05.mail.aol.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas Status: RO X-Status: salaams and greetings to all On Mon, 9 Oct 1995 Jinavamsa@aol.com wrote: > > > >There are two thoughts - one needs to rise above personal pleasure and one > >ought to dive into the true depth of the pleasure of this earth as god has > >made it good. Both are true and both must exist at the same time, this is > >unity. > > The unfortunate fact is that the first view, which is typicaly the > >masculine or hierachical view and is associated with killing of the ego in > >the light of Allah, has dominated and thus unballenced the natural sense of > >unity gained by association with the latter view which is associated with > the > >rebirth of the ego as Allah experiences him/her self as us. This is very well stated. This discussion reminds me of the sensuality of small children - my son at 10 days of age writhing ecstatically in the warm breeze, and the experience of breastfeeding and cuddling babies. These are separate from sex, so are 'safe' to enjoy without guilt! Is this confusion over how something pleasurable could possibly be 'spiritually correct' be an expression of our own sexual repression? Was the Prophet (pbuh) teaching us to break free of this mentality? Lily