From tariqas-approval Wed Dec 21 13:55:06 1994 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA24141; Wed, 21 Dec 1994 23:55:41 GMT Received: from bonk.io.org by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA24100; Wed, 21 Dec 1994 18:55:36 -0500 Received: (from walrus@localhost) by bonk.io.org (8.6.9/8.6.9) id SAA28373 for tariqas@world.std.com; Wed, 21 Dec 1994 18:55:06 -0500 Date: Wed, 21 Dec 1994 18:55:06 -0500 From: Walter Eisenbeis Message-Id: <199412212355.SAA28373@bonk.io.org> To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Hu Calls Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@world.std.com Status: RO X-Status: h> In using the name "Hu" as a greeting, one is acknowledging the h> Divine Treasure which Allah has placed within each one of us. "Hu" h> functions as a *tahiyyat* (spiritual greeting) of deep subtlety and h> mystery, complimenting, though not replacing the greeting as-Salaam h> 'alaikum. I didn't know this. Where did you learn this greeting? :-) --- ~ KWQ/2 1.2g ~ In love there is no superiority From tariqas-approval Wed Dec 21 13:55:06 1994 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA24030; Wed, 21 Dec 1994 23:55:29 GMT Received: from bonk.io.org by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA24010; Wed, 21 Dec 1994 18:55:26 -0500 Received: (from walrus@localhost) by bonk.io.org (8.6.9/8.6.9) id SAA28370 for tariqas@world.std.com; Wed, 21 Dec 1994 18:55:06 -0500 Date: Wed, 21 Dec 1994 18:55:06 -0500 From: Walter Eisenbeis Message-Id: <199412212355.SAA28370@bonk.io.org> To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: URS: Death & Marriage Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@world.std.com Status: RO X-Status: b> By the way, I can't help but see the close sounds of b> s(he) b(i) and s(al) v(a). At least there must be some b> associated connection with Sabr and Shebi ors. No there isn't. These sounds are quite different. The apparent 'S' sound is due to the poor transliteration of Arabic. The "s" in sabr is from the letter Saad and the 'sh' is the sound 'sh' and the letter is the letter 'sheen'. I can't produce the letters here, but they are very different and we are dealing with Arabic and Persian for Saad and Persian for the 'sheen' in shabi, which is actually shab + i to show possession or modification of a noun. --- ~ KWQ/2 1.2g ~ In love there is no superiority From tariqas-approval Wed Dec 21 10:32:41 1994 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA27211; Thu, 22 Dec 1994 02:36:43 GMT Received: from netcom.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA27202; Wed, 21 Dec 1994 21:36:42 -0500 Received: from netcom6.netcom.com by relay1.UU.NET with SMTP id QQxvhy27714; Wed, 21 Dec 1994 21:33:58 -0500 Received: by netcom6.netcom.com (8.6.9/Netcom) id SAA05944; Wed, 21 Dec 1994 18:32:41 -0800 From: deane@netcom.com (Dean Edwards) Message-Id: <199412220232.SAA05944@netcom6.netcom.com> Subject: Re: Hu Calls To: tariqas@world.std.com Date: Wed, 21 Dec 1994 18:32:41 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <199412212355.SAA28373@bonk.io.org> from "Walter Eisenbeis" at Dec 21, 94 06:55:06 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 849 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@world.std.com Status: RO X-Status: I have also heard 'hu' referred to as 'the morning song'. I imagine this is because it can be sung or chanted and is done so by some sufis in the morning. I have a friend who is a mevlevi sheikh who lead a hu song at ITP (the Institute of Transpersonal Psychology) a few years ago. So I know that it is used like a mantra or I should say in zikr. I am curious about one thing, since arabic is not one of the languages that I have a small knowledge of. I thought that 'hu' was a third person form of the verb for 'to be', in this case usually meaning 'He is'.? I do know that the sanskrit verb 'to be is 'bhu'. Any way this also shows up in ancient Egypt as the word for 'divine utterance' or divine 'speech'. It is found among the celts and in mesototamia and in Tibet as well. It seems to have a widespread and very ancient sacred lineage. Dean From tariqas-approval Wed Dec 21 17:22:55 1994 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA05999; Thu, 22 Dec 1994 05:23:08 GMT Received: from canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA05989; Thu, 22 Dec 1994 00:23:07 -0500 Received: from castor.cc.umanitoba.ca (umabdelh@castor.cc.umanitoba.ca [130.179.25.11]) by canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA19593 for ; Wed, 21 Dec 1994 23:22:53 -0600 Received: by castor.cc.umanitoba.ca (4.1/25-eef) id AA01131; Wed, 21 Dec 94 23:22:55 CST Date: Wed, 21 Dec 1994 23:22:55 -0600 (CST) From: Mohsen Abdel-Hadi To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: Hu Calls In-Reply-To: <199412220232.SAA05944@netcom6.netcom.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@world.std.com Status: RO X-Status: "hu" in arabic means "he". It could be pronounced as 'hu' or 'huwa' depending on where it falls in the sentence. I don't think it is correct to say that it is part of God's name "Allahu", since His name is Allah. It could be Allahu, Allaha, Allahee or Allah; again depending on its location in the sentence. Hu is made up of two letters: 'heh' and 'waw'. If there is a "sekoon" on the waw then it is pronounced hu. If there is a "fatha" then it is pronounced huwa. Allah is made up of four letters: alef, lam, lam and heh. There is no waw there. Again the pronunciation on hu, ha, hee or h depends on whether there is a "dammah", "fatha", "kasra" or "sekoon" (these are the little symbols found above and below the letters in a word). I know that hu is used as a mantra, chanted by those who practice 'eckankar' or the soul travel (some kind of out of body experience). mohsen From tariqas-approval Wed Dec 21 14:56:11 1994 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA14175; Thu, 22 Dec 1994 07:25:04 GMT Received: from netcom4.netcom.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA14162; Thu, 22 Dec 1994 02:25:03 -0500 Received: by netcom4.netcom.com (8.6.9/Netcom) id WAA01923; Wed, 21 Dec 1994 22:56:12 -0800 Date: Wed, 21 Dec 1994 22:56:11 -0800 (PST) From: Steven Finkelman Subject: Re: Hu Calls To: tariqas@world.std.com Cc: tariqas@world.std.com In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@world.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Steven Finkelman DATA/Massage slfink@netcom.com On Wed, 21 Dec 1994, Mohsen Abdel-Hadi wrote: > > "hu" in arabic means "he". It could be pronounced as 'hu' or 'huwa' > depending on where it falls in the sentence. I don't think it is correct > to say that it is part of God's name "Allahu", since His name is Allah. > It could be Allahu, Allaha, Allahee or Allah; again depending on its > location in the sentence. > Hu is made up of two letters: 'heh' and 'waw'. If there is a "sekoon" on > the waw then it is pronounced hu. If there is a "fatha" then it is > pronounced huwa. > Allah is made up of four letters: alef, lam, lam and heh. There is no waw > there. Again the pronunciation on hu, ha, hee or h depends on whether > there is a "dammah", "fatha", "kasra" or "sekoon" (these are the little > symbols found above and below the letters in a word). > I know that hu is used as a mantra, chanted by those who practice > 'eckankar' or the soul travel (some kind of out of body experience). I find this very interesting. In hebrew one of the most sacred names of God is called the tetragrameton, it consists of four hebrew letters. yod heh vav (or waw) heh. pronounced (in hebrew) as y h v h or y h w h with connecting vowels in between. I have always lineked it to the breath of God. these are sounds we make when we breath. y on the exhale, heh on the inhale waw on the exhale heh on the inhale. very much like the name Allah, which is present in every breath. There is a similarity in the yod and the waw in the shape of the letters. they are basically the same except the waw ia a yod with an extended tail. As it was explained to me the yod represente the essential unactualized God, primordial in essence. the waw represents Gods essence on earth, God's breath in all. Hu as you describe is is the middle two letters of the tetragramaton. and os pronounced in very much the same way. I have done a group meditation (not ekankar) with hu as the mantra. It seems to me that it is the hum of the universe and the sound of the dance of the planets. In it I feel a sense of self annilation. A sence of union with all. To me it is being the universe, being God without self or seperation. Hu! slf From tariqas-approval Thu Dec 22 09:36:00 1994 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA23815; Thu, 22 Dec 1994 08:40:51 GMT Received: from carmen.logica.co.uk by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA23802; Thu, 22 Dec 1994 03:40:48 -0500 Received: from smtpmail.logica.com (mssmtp.logica.com) by carmen.logica.co.uk (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA03603; Thu, 22 Dec 94 08:41:43 GMT Received: by smtpmail.logica.com with Microsoft Mail id <2EF949FF@smtpmail.logica.com>; Thu, 22 Dec 94 08:42:23 gmt From: Otersen Mathias To: 'tariqasmail' Subject: Hu Tibetan? Date: Thu, 22 Dec 94 09:36:00 gmt Message-Id: <2EF949FF@smtpmail.logica.com> Encoding: 15 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@world.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Assalamu Alaikum, I've never come across HU while reading tantric mantras (of the deity yoga class). But then again, my knowledge of these is quite restricted. Could you name some sources? For as far the celtic references are concerned: I'm interested in these also. HU! (To keep it in the spirit of this mailing list :-) ), Matthias. From tariqas-approval Wed Dec 21 17:08:42 1994 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA26660; Thu, 22 Dec 1994 09:09:00 GMT Received: from netcom4.netcom.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA26650; Thu, 22 Dec 1994 04:08:59 -0500 Received: by netcom4.netcom.com (8.6.9/Netcom) id BAA15321; Thu, 22 Dec 1994 01:08:42 -0800 Date: Thu, 22 Dec 1994 01:08:42 -0800 (PST) From: Steven Finkelman Subject: Re: Hu Tibetan? To: tariqas@world.std.com Cc: "'tariqasmail'" In-Reply-To: <2EF949FF@smtpmail.logica.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@world.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Steven Finkelman DATA/Massage slfink@netcom.com On Thu, 22 Dec 1994, Otersen Mathias wrote: > > Assalamu Alaikum, > > I've never come across HU while reading tantric mantras (of the deity yoga > class). But then again, my knowledge of these is quite restricted. Could you > name some sources? > My reference is my synthesis of the teachings of Rabbi Meir Chai Benhuyoun and of the Lubavitch Chabad of the Loop and Lincoln park, Rabbi Ariel Bar-Tzadok, my experience with my Murshida and Murshid and the grace revealed to me. For the permutations of the name of God and related meditations in hebrew and english there is a very fine book written by R. Ariel Bar Tzadok called _Yikrah B'shmi, Call Upon My Name published by: Yeshivat Benei N'vi'im, Children of the prophets p.o. box 678 Fairfield, Iowa 52556 copywrite 1992 I think this has moved to Chicago, Illinois, however I do not know the address here. Hu! From tariqas-approval Thu Dec 22 11:51:00 1994 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA05655; Thu, 22 Dec 1994 10:52:21 GMT Received: from carmen.logica.co.uk by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA05601; Thu, 22 Dec 1994 05:52:05 -0500 Received: from smtpmail.logica.com (mssmtp.logica.com) by carmen.logica.co.uk (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA07547; Thu, 22 Dec 94 10:52:51 GMT Received: by smtpmail.logica.com with Microsoft Mail id <2EF968BB@smtpmail.logica.com>; Thu, 22 Dec 94 10:53:31 gmt From: Otersen Mathias To: 'tariqasmail' Subject: refering to Dean's mail! Date: Thu, 22 Dec 94 11:51:00 gmt Message-Id: <2EF968BB@smtpmail.logica.com> Encoding: 11 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@world.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Sorry Slf, But I was refering to the mail of Dean. I've done some reading on tantric discources and I just wondered where he came across HU. If should have been more specific! greetings, Mat. From tariqas-approval Thu Dec 22 03:57:56 1994 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA21083; Thu, 22 Dec 1994 14:04:03 GMT Received: from york.wash.inmet.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA21047; Thu, 22 Dec 1994 09:04:01 -0500 Received: by york.wash.inmet.com (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA16995; Thu, 22 Dec 1994 08:57:56 -0500 Date: Thu, 22 Dec 1994 08:57:56 -0500 From: dlb@york.wash.inmet.com (David Barton) Message-Id: <9412221357.AA16995@york.wash.inmet.com> To: tariqas@world.std.com Cc: tariqas@world.std.com In-Reply-To: <199412220232.SAA05944@netcom6.netcom.com> (deane@netcom.com) Subject: Re: Hu Calls Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@world.std.com Status: RO X-Status: I am curious about one thing, since arabic is not one of the languages that I have a small knowledge of. I thought that 'hu' was a third person form of the verb for 'to be', in this case usually meaning 'He is'.? Not quite. My knowledge of Arabic is quite small, and I hope if I err that someone will correct me. The verb "to be" in the present tense does not really exist in Arabic (it can in certain forms, but not in ordinary usage). As in many Semitic tongues, the verb "to be" is expressed by juxtaposing a definite noun, pronoun, or name with an indefinite noun or adjective. For example, "He is a man" is (transliterated freely) "huwa rajul". Note that even here, the third person pronoun in the subjective case is "huwa" not "hu". "Hu" is used as a suffix to mean "him", "to him", or "to it". To my knowledge, it does not occur alone in normal usage. Again, if this is incorrect (I am up to all of chapter 10 in a "Teach Yourself Arabic" book), I ask for correction. Dave Barton dlb@wash.inmet.com From tariqas-approval Thu Dec 22 10:55:14 1994 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA15569; Thu, 22 Dec 1994 20:55:39 GMT Received: from raphael.acpub.duke.edu by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA15514; Thu, 22 Dec 1994 15:55:36 -0500 Received: (from hthashq1@localhost) by raphael.acpub.duke.edu (8.6.8.1/Duke-2.0) id PAA01079; Thu, 22 Dec 1994 15:55:15 -0500 Date: Thu, 22 Dec 1994 15:55:14 -0500 (EST) From: Hugh Talat Halman Subject: Hu Hu Hu To: tariqas@world.std.com Cc: tariqas@world.std.com In-Reply-To: <199412212355.SAA28373@bonk.io.org> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@world.std.com Status: RO X-Status: On Wed, 21 Dec 1994, Walter Eisenbeis wrote: > h> In using the name "Hu" as a greeting, one is acknowledging the > h> Divine Treasure which Allah has placed within each one of us. "Hu" > h> functions as a *tahiyyat* (spiritual greeting) of deep subtlety and > h> mystery, complimenting, though not replacing the greeting as-Salaam > h> 'alaikum. > I didn't know this. Where did you learn this greeting? :-) This is a practice of mutasawwifun in Turkey if not also elsewhere. The significance of its use as a greeting was conveyed in a public talk in October by Muhammad Sherif Catalkaya, a Shaikh of the Rifa'i-Ma'rufi Order of Izmir, Azerbaijan, New York, and Chapel Hill North Carolina. Hu! Dost! As-salaam 'alaikum & merry christmas Talat al-Zumurrudi From tariqas-approval Thu Dec 22 11:01:07 1994 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA19137; Thu, 22 Dec 1994 21:01:27 GMT Received: from raphael.acpub.duke.edu by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA19115; Thu, 22 Dec 1994 16:01:24 -0500 Received: (from hthashq1@localhost) by raphael.acpub.duke.edu (8.6.8.1/Duke-2.0) id QAA01214; Thu, 22 Dec 1994 16:01:08 -0500 Date: Thu, 22 Dec 1994 16:01:07 -0500 (EST) From: Hugh Talat Halman Subject: Re: Hu Calls To: tariqas@world.std.com Cc: tariqas@world.std.com In-Reply-To: <199412220232.SAA05944@netcom6.netcom.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@world.std.com Status: RO X-Status: On Wed, 21 Dec 1994, Dean Edwards wrote: > I am curious about one thing, since arabic is not one of the languages that > I have a small knowledge of. I thought that 'hu' was a third person form of > the verb for 'to be', in this case usually meaning 'He is'.? HU is the "Pronoun of the Invisible" and is therefore equivalent to the English "He" or "It". The copulative verb would be "kana". The word Hu does not contain the verb "to be" at least not in a linguisatic sense. > > I do know that the sanskrit verb 'to be is 'bhu'. William Paden in his intro textbook _Religious Worlds_ (Boston: Beacon Press, 1988, 1993) gives an etymology for the word Bhagwan as coming from the Sanskrit "Hu", to invoke. Any way this also shows up > in ancient Egypt as the word for 'divine utterance' or divine 'speech'. It > is found among the celts and in mesototamia and in Tibet as well. It seems > to have a widespread and very ancient sacred lineage. > > Dean > Especially for those such as you HU seek wisdom. Talat From tariqas-approval Thu Dec 22 06:10:59 1994 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA00903; Thu, 22 Dec 1994 22:22:46 GMT Received: from netcom7.netcom.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA00876; Thu, 22 Dec 1994 17:22:44 -0500 Received: by netcom7.netcom.com (8.6.9/Netcom) id OAA19556; Thu, 22 Dec 1994 14:11:00 -0800 Date: Thu, 22 Dec 1994 14:10:59 -0800 (PST) From: Steven Finkelman Subject: Re: Hu Calls To: tariqas@world.std.com Cc: tariqas@world.std.com, tariqas@world.std.com In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@world.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Steven Finkelman DATA/Massage slfink@netcom.com On Thu, 22 Dec 1994, Hugh Talat Halman wrote: > On Wed, 21 Dec 1994, Dean Edwards wrote: > > > I am curious about one thing, since arabic is not one of the languages that > > I have a small knowledge of. I thought that 'hu' was a third person form of > > the verb for 'to be', in this case usually meaning 'He is'.? > > HU is the "Pronoun of the Invisible" and is therefore equivalent > to the English "He" or "It". The copulative verb would be "kana". The > word Hu does not contain the verb "to be" at least not in a linguisatic > sense. > > If this is so, then it adds a dimension to my understanding of the word. If it is a third person 'he is' and coupled with my experience of nullification. It is as if the universe is saying the being who utters the "Hu" is manifest. It is to speak of yourself as the ultimate observer of yourself, from a vantage point both inside and outside. It is to say all is manifested. > William Paden in his intro textbook _Religious Worlds_ (Boston: Beacon > Press, 1988, 1993) gives an etymology for the word Bhagwan as coming from > the Sanskrit "Hu", to invoke. though this is not the exact word could one say here, to manifest as well? > Any way this also shows up > > in ancient Egypt as the word for 'divine utterance' or divine 'speech'. It > > is found among the celts and in mesototamia and in Tibet as well. It seems > > to have a widespread and very ancient sacred lineage. > > This highlights the evolutionary precursor of the traditions. It is my contention that there was an origional teaching which has manifest in a variety of lineages and practices. It is the nature of the animal man to desire to own and claim these things. This is the politics of religion, Not the way of the mystic. In the end (or the beginning) All form dissolves, we become One with All. The words are similar, the nature of the words/sounds is to permeate the being with a frequency of vibration or a resonance to the ALL or specific aspects of the ALL. At the root they/we are all One. Peace be with you and in you all, Sf > From tariqas-approval Thu Dec 22 12:55:36 1994 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA16073; Thu, 22 Dec 1994 22:55:52 GMT Received: from virginia.edu (uvaarpa.Virginia.EDU) by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA16063; Thu, 22 Dec 1994 17:55:51 -0500 Received: from galen.med.virginia.edu by uvaarpa.virginia.edu id aa02576; 22 Dec 94 17:55 EST Received: (from abg3k@localhost) by galen.med.Virginia.EDU (8.6.8/8.6.6) id RAA105995 for tariqas@world.std.com; Thu, 22 Dec 1994 17:55:36 -0500 From: "A.N. Durkee" Message-Id: <199412222255.RAA105995@galen.med.Virginia.EDU> Subject: Re: response re: Mas'ari, Rushdie, Cat Stevens, etc. To: tariqas@world.std.com Date: Thu, 22 Dec 94 17:55:36 EST In-Reply-To: ; from "Super User" at Dec 15, 94 1:03 am X-Mailer: PENELM [version 2.3.1 PL11] Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@world.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Amin -- wa salam Noori From tariqas-approval Thu Dec 22 12:28:57 1994 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA07358; Fri, 23 Dec 1994 04:29:23 GMT Received: from netcom11.netcom.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA07341; Thu, 22 Dec 1994 23:29:22 -0500 Received: by netcom11.netcom.com (8.6.9/Netcom) id UAA21024; Thu, 22 Dec 1994 20:28:58 -0800 From: deane@netcom.com (Dean Edwards) Message-Id: <199412230428.UAA21024@netcom11.netcom.com> Subject: Re: Hu Calls To: tariqas@world.std.com Date: Thu, 22 Dec 1994 20:28:57 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: from "Hugh Talat Halman" at Dec 22, 94 04:01:07 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Length: 1056 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@world.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Another interesting aspect of HU is in its reduplicated form 'huhu'. In ancient Egypt and among the Bon of Tibet it signifies the primeval watery mass from which all things spring forth. (Budge, Dictionary of Hieroglyphics, and Tucci, Religions of Tibet). As HU it is the name of the Sphinx, the God of the Nile and the name of the central stone of a circle of standing stones (according to Ross Nichols in The Book of Druidry. It was so important to Rumi that he wrote in the Divan i Shams i Tabriz, "I know nothing but Hu and Ya Man Hu!" This is also the sound that many species of turtles make. I saw one on a Nature program laying its eggs and crying out "Huuuuu, Huuuuuu..... In terms of pronunciation, it shows up in the middle east primarily as hu as in the english word 'who'.Among the old welsh it was pronounced like the name 'Hugh'. In ancient Egypt the initial h was stresses. In some cultures it mutated to 'khu' (gutteral) I have to admit that this word has been a hobby of mine for a couple of decades and I hold it most sacred. Dean From tariqas-approval Wed Dec 21 01:19:28 1994 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA18634; Fri, 23 Dec 1994 04:56:56 GMT Received: from uunet!fifthd by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA18619; Thu, 22 Dec 1994 23:56:55 -0500 Received: from espace.dcl.com by relay4.UU.NET with SMTP id QQxvlz18481; Thu, 22 Dec 1994 23:53:20 -0500 Message-Id: Received: from forthd by espace.dcl.com (MX V3.1C) with UUCP; Thu, 22 Dec 1994 20:53:00 PST Received: by forthd.dcl.com (DECUS UUCP /2.0/2.0/2.0/); Thu, 22 Dec 94 20:30:57 PST Received: from fifthd by fifthd.uucp (UUPC/extended 1.12b) with UUCP; Wed, 21 Dec 1994 01:19:35 GMT From: Super User To: tariqas@world.std.com Date: Wed, 21 Dec 1994 01:19:28 GMT+6 Subject: re: Hu calls Priority: normal X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail v3.1 (R1a) Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@world.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Although the posting on use of Hu as a greeting was from Hugh Talat Halman, Walter Eisenbeis, I hope he won't mind if I add that the Mevlevi sometimes add Hu to the end of a greeting, even publicly in sama': "wa 'aleikum as-salaam wa barakati Hu!". Dervishes use the phrase "Hu dostler" in greeting, meaning "Presence, O friends!" Those who are really aware we do not have a valid identity other than a provisional one contingent upon the Divine Presence probably use these expressions to get around the paradox of the One greeting the One. Who is greeting Who? -- Khadim Chishti khadim@forthd.dcl.com From tariqas-approval Fri Dec 23 10:01:00 1994 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA29422; Fri, 23 Dec 1994 09:03:12 GMT Received: from carmen.logica.co.uk by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA29402; Fri, 23 Dec 1994 04:03:09 -0500 Received: from smtpmail.logica.com (mssmtp.logica.com) by carmen.logica.co.uk (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA08220; Fri, 23 Dec 94 09:04:03 GMT Received: by smtpmail.logica.com with Microsoft Mail id <2EFAA0BA@smtpmail.logica.com>; Fri, 23 Dec 94 09:04:42 gmt From: Otersen Mathias To: Steven Finkelman , 'tariqasmail' Subject: Re: refering to Dean's mail! Date: Fri, 23 Dec 94 10:01:00 gmt Message-Id: <2EFAA0BA@smtpmail.logica.com> Encoding: 176 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@world.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Assalamu alaikum Steve, I added my remarks to your text, > > Hi Steve, > > I didn't expect to find someone with knowledge about Jewish mysticism on an > islamic mailing-list. Times are changing as this surely shows! > > Do you understand under different lineages "Jewism, Christianity and Islam"? > Or does this term apply to all religions? In my understanding I mean mystical lineages. It is not widely recognized that at the core of each of the formal religions, including the indian and chinese religions, american indian and south american religions, is the same essential knowledge. It turns out that in each of these 'traditions' there mixtures of more or less political and mystical content which is accessible to the ordinary practitioner. ==> The questions asked in religions are always the same. The conclusions sometimes differ. It's a good point that you have noted that we have to find common ground in the mystical dimension where word and meaning are not seperated by incomprehension. > Since Dean made references to Tibetan- and even celtic religious practices, > I guess I have to take it in the broader sense... Yes > > Strictly speaking Boedhism has no "God" as the great religions of the > middle-east. The Gods and Bodhisattva's of Mahayana Boedhism are just like > us prisoners of the cycle of lives (samsara). Maybe one should identify God > with the state of nirvana. Are they though? We bipedal homo-sapiens now have a limited ordinary consciousness. ==> At one time I believed in the actual existence of bodhisattva's and likewise creatures. But the question to be asked is the following: Does it really matter if they exist? Why look for things seperated from ourselves when GOD is inside our soul. Even in the teachings of Mahayana, gods and godesses are insignificant since the greatest mistery has to be discover solely by ourselves! At some evolutionary step, perhaps after the introduction of writing, including pictoform writing, our consciousness was changed. We no longer have at our core, (unless we work at it) the christ (for lack of a better term) or holistic consciousness whereby we are fully aware of our connection and view the Gods, as part or aspects of a deeper all pervading force and not as sperate entities. I have the conviction that they are only aspects of this all pervading force and at times have a glimpse of it. This is where I break from formal religion. ==> This is an interesting theory you point out. It's however not the first time I hear from it! In psychology there's a theory that states that a major modification in "awareness" had taken around 1800 BC. Before this time states were ruled by God-kings, i.e. emporors who were seen as "gods" by the ordinary folk. After a series of dramatic chatastrophies human kind became more sceptical, meaning that the end had come for this blissful and peaceful period. To see a clue of this I have had difficulty justifying the timint of events of the old testament and have come to some synthesis of the events. We in the english language have a poor language of description. ==> Indeed you're right! But then again, no language at all suffices to discuss these things. My investigation started with the story of passover. and the events around it. the building of the great pyramids is reported to be early kingdom egyptian, I believe they were constructed before this. The story goes that the jews were slaves in egypt working on the great pyramid. the time of this is around the 21st dynasty. How could this be? I then talked with an egyptologist who is a friend of mine. She told me that -moses is a common suffix of the names of the egyptian priesthood. In the esoteric Kabalistic traditon, their enslavement was a psychic enslavement. If they didn't leave then they would be trapped. My conclution is that the jews were not slaves building the pyramids in a physical sense but were used as energy working with the force and intrinsic nature fo the pyramids. In other words, not working on, but working in the pyramids, and not in a physical sence but in a psychic sense. the other clue is that the last thing which was done was the removal of the bones of Joseph before they went to the desert. What is significant about his bones? It was not his bones, it was his mummy. The egyptian technology of the time was that they were able to call back into the body(mummy) the soul of the being. Why is this important? It is in my contention that in the soul of joseph was a teaching. Not in the form of teaching as we know it written word, but perhaps a teaching encoded in an energetic way, beam of light, ray, vibration, whatever you like. The best known form is a terma teaching. or in teh whispering lineage after long deep meditation on puja drawing or picture, the picture actuially seems to whisper the teaching which which it was created. It is my contention that Joseph contained a teaching which the Egyptians were trying to decode, manifest the teaching. Understand that this was after the introduction of pictoform writing, after humanity shifted into a dualistic consciousness. It never happened then, the teaching was never manifest. So far here is the way it goes according to my synthesis. The Moses was an egyptian priest who had special knowledge. In order for the teaching to be manifest, he had to take the bones of joseph to the desert and work with them in an unmanifest form. It could be that the entire tribe of jews were part and parcel of the egyptian priesthood of the time. The old testament then describes the lineage of the jewish tribes. Whyu is this significant? it traces the teaching. It shows where the teaching went. From my understanding. It was not until the 14th century that the teaching was written by rabbi Shimon Bar Yohai. It is called the Zohar. It was written in a new variation of hebrew called aramaic. this describes one lineage of one essential teaching, In it there are many offshoots. I believe that this was not the only form of this teaching there was. I believe that there was a center of it in tha Caucuses, One in notrhern europe, one in asia, and one in the americas probably south america. I also believe that there were civilizarions which preceded our recorded history, atlantis, lemuria and one other. Perhaps the source of the teaching was extra terrestrial or interdimentional. though of this I am not yet certain. Just my 2 cents. ==> This is quite heavy! But I never felt inclined to search outward for spirital salvation. You see, our approaches are quite different: I've never looked for answers in some long-lost mystery that is encoded by ways unknown. Even though I'm a westerer, I'm afraid that I more or less practise the asiatic trait of thought. Why take assumptions one can not prove while they are not important for the question one wants to solve? ==> You state that religions are in principle all identical. You're quite right at that: Only the fact that people have invented these should lead to this fact. Not that I'm denying the divine message. I'm only saying that since people solve problems more or less the same way, they probably did the same when dealing with religious problems. Cultural differences and individual differences between people are the only reason why they believe they are experiencing something different. No one is special I'm afraid, everybody experiences the same. It's only hard to communicate one's experiences to others, bound by the borders of language and concepts one can handle! ==> You see, it's quite funny how we communicate: I describing stuff from a Boedhist view (even though I'm no Boedhist, ist just a tenet system I can handle well), You describing things using your knowledge of your jewish(?) upbringing. ==> Your also right in that the mystic way is the best common ground between religions. I firmly believe that only by hart one can feel what is true. Our limited mental capacities are only sufficient to turn us to nihilists, while our hart can show us the beatiful things of Life. I don't know if we had ever more mental capacities. Since, however, these capacities do not matter in spiritual matters, it doesn't matter. ==> One should never close oneself up for other ideas. I have only limited knowledge about kabala and general jewish mysticism. You could teach me a great deal. And...I know for certain (It's even proven by western science, although they're now in a bit of dispute among themselves, egyptologist i.e.) that the sphinx is of predynastic origin. strange things happen! Hu, Mat. From tariqas-approval Fri Dec 23 14:01:00 1994 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA28073; Fri, 23 Dec 1994 13:02:55 GMT Received: from carmen.logica.co.uk by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA28030; Fri, 23 Dec 1994 08:02:44 -0500 Received: from smtpmail.logica.com (mssmtp.logica.com) by carmen.logica.co.uk (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA16381; Fri, 23 Dec 94 13:03:23 GMT Received: by smtpmail.logica.com with Microsoft Mail id <2EFAD8D2@smtpmail.logica.com>; Fri, 23 Dec 94 13:04:02 gmt From: Otersen Mathias To: 'tariqasmail' Subject: Ach so! Date: Fri, 23 Dec 94 14:01:00 gmt Message-Id: <2EFAD8D2@smtpmail.logica.com> Encoding: 5 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@world.std.com Status: RO X-Status: No wonder I never came along "Hu" when dealing with Tibetan religion! I never considered the preboedhist religion "bon" of Tibet! Mat. From tariqas-approval Fri Dec 23 14:01:00 1994 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA28305; Fri, 23 Dec 1994 13:03:58 GMT Received: from carmen.logica.co.uk by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA28271; Fri, 23 Dec 1994 08:03:52 -0500 Received: from smtpmail.logica.com (mssmtp.logica.com) by carmen.logica.co.uk (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA16427; Fri, 23 Dec 94 13:04:46 GMT Received: by smtpmail.logica.com with Microsoft Mail id <2EFAD925@smtpmail.logica.com>; Fri, 23 Dec 94 13:05:25 gmt From: Otersen Mathias To: 'tariqasmail' Subject: weird! Date: Fri, 23 Dec 94 14:01:00 gmt Message-Id: <2EFAD925@smtpmail.logica.com> Encoding: 7 TEXT X-Mailer: Microsoft Mail V3.0 Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@world.std.com Status: RO X-Status: I just browsed through an older mail in which is mentioned that "HU" is the egyption word for Sphinx. Weird! I've haven't read that mail before I replied to Steve...... Mat. From tariqas-approval Fri Dec 23 02:21:01 1994 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA25793; Fri, 23 Dec 1994 14:21:24 GMT Received: from canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA25780; Fri, 23 Dec 1994 09:21:22 -0500 Received: from toliman.cc.umanitoba.ca (umabdelh@toliman.cc.umanitoba.ca [130.179.20.14]) by canopus.cc.umanitoba.ca (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA13635 for ; Fri, 23 Dec 1994 08:21:04 -0600 Received: by toliman.cc.umanitoba.ca (4.1/25-eef) id AA01425; Fri, 23 Dec 94 08:21:01 CST Date: Fri, 23 Dec 1994 08:21:01 -0600 (CST) From: Mohsen Abdel-Hadi To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: Hu Calls In-Reply-To: <9412221357.AA16995@york.wash.inmet.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@world.std.com Status: RO X-Status: "him" is refered to by the letter "h", so it could be hu or simply h. It's very difficult to explain this stuff using the Latin alphabet, but I can refer you to an arabic tutor you can use if you have a PC and a sound card. A demo version is available via ftp from: rama.poly.edu/pub/reader/win3/naatiq you should download disk1.zip, disk2.zip and the readme file. I don't know how good it is (I don't have a sound card) but you can give it a try. An aside: An Egyptian Sufi sheikh once said that the meaning of the opening chapter of the Quran (Al Fatihah) is revealed to those who recite it with the proper pronunciation of each letter/word -not an easy task even for Arab natives-. Salam mohsen On Thu, 22 Dec 1994, David Barton wrote: > > "Hu" is used as a suffix to mean "him", "to him", or "to it". To my > knowledge, it does not occur alone in normal usage. > > Again, if this is incorrect (I am up to all of chapter 10 in a "Teach > Yourself Arabic" book), I ask for correction. > > Dave Barton > dlb@wash.inmet.com > From tariqas-approval Fri Dec 23 12:11:14 1994 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA18966; Fri, 23 Dec 1994 22:11:35 GMT Received: from teer23.acpub.duke.edu by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA18950; Fri, 23 Dec 1994 17:11:34 -0500 Received: (from hthashq1@localhost) by teer23.acpub.duke.edu (8.6.8.1/Duke-2.0) id RAA29616; Fri, 23 Dec 1994 17:11:17 -0500 Date: Fri, 23 Dec 1994 17:11:14 -0500 (EST) From: Hugh Talat Halman Subject: Hugh's Hu To: tariqas@world.std.com Cc: tariqas@world.std.com In-Reply-To: <199412230428.UAA21024@netcom11.netcom.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@world.std.com Status: RO X-Status: On Thu, 22 Dec 1994, Dean Edwards wrote: > In terms of pronunciation, it shows up in the middle east primarily as > hu as in the english word 'who'.Among the old welsh it was pronounced > like the name 'Hugh'. In Eastern Anatolia, Turks, such as the Alevis will use the word Hu as a greeting and in their pronounciation will sound it out as if it were something sounding like a tersely ejected "Hew" or "Hugh". More known to Americans may be Eckankar's practice of "singing the Hu" which they sing, say, and chant as if it were, and their instruction sheets give this as such--the man's name Hugh. > I have to admit that this word has been a hobby of mine for a couple of > decades and I hold it most sacred. > Question, Dean: You mention HU as the god of the Nile. Is this appelation an alternative for Osiris, or a different entity? Thanks, Hu! Hugh Talat Halman From tariqas-approval Fri Dec 23 12:46:15 1994 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA01991; Fri, 23 Dec 1994 22:46:43 GMT Received: from teer23.acpub.duke.edu by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA01972; Fri, 23 Dec 1994 17:46:39 -0500 Received: (from hthashq1@localhost) by teer23.acpub.duke.edu (8.6.8.1/Duke-2.0) id RAA29686; Fri, 23 Dec 1994 17:46:17 -0500 Date: Fri, 23 Dec 1994 17:46:15 -0500 (EST) From: Hugh Talat Halman Subject: Hu's on "First" To: tariqas@world.std.com Cc: tariqas@world.std.com In-Reply-To: <199412230428.UAA21024@netcom11.netcom.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@world.std.com Status: RO X-Status: On Thu, 22 Dec 1994, Dean Edwards wrote: > This is also the sound that many species of turtles make. I saw one on a > Nature program laying its eggs and crying out "Huuuuu, Huuuuuu..... > This sound is also the sound of a bird whose English name sounds almost exactly like the Arabic word for "first"--Awwal. The Owl does Tahajjud (night vigil) and does the Dhikr of "Hu..." In the words of the Sufi comedians 'Abud and Qist Allah: "Hu's on First!" Hu! Talat From tariqas-approval Fri Dec 23 18:17:38 1994 Received: by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA05220; Sat, 24 Dec 1994 04:20:56 GMT Received: from mail04.mail.aol.com by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA05212; Fri, 23 Dec 1994 23:20:55 -0500 Received: by mail04.mail.aol.com (1.38.193.5/16.2) id AA19658; Fri, 23 Dec 1994 23:17:38 -0500 Date: Fri, 23 Dec 1994 23:17:38 -0500 From: Najat@aol.com Message-Id: <941223231738_6065204@aol.com> To: tariqas@world.std.com Subject: Re: Hu's on "First" Sender: tariqas-approval@world.std.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: tariqas@world.std.com Status: RO X-Status: Little did I suspect so much discussion would ensue when I said "Hu knows." Do the practice, brothers and sisters, do the practice. -- Blessings of the season, Najat.